Why is love considered taboo for the Jedi?

[demonolithic]

Jedi don't believe in thinking with your lightsaber.

[Stncold]

Because George Lucas is a terrible writer and was trying to create artificial roadblocks for PadMe and Anakin

 

^This

 

Lore-wise though, the Jedi are cowards. Satele is a great example of this in Annihilation. A good part of the book is her running away from loving and getting attached to Theron.

 

Some Jedi in history have realized how dumb the rule is. Bindo, Revan/Bastila, Satele's mom. Luke abolished the silly rule, and in his order there's only been 1 Jedi who fell because of it, and to be fair Vergere had corrupted him long before Allana was born. Then later on, Luke fights a being of pure Dark Side energy by becoming a beacon of Light Side energy by opening himself to the Force and fueling it with all those positive emotions of love for his family and the Order.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Stncold

[Tarthenal]

Force-users are extremely dangerous, especially when you consider that literally every galactic war(including the one involving the Vong) is a result of conflict between force users. Ultimately they wield a disproportionate amount of power by virtue of their genetics, and this power can range from the rather common ability of mind control(which when you really think about it is already quite powerful) to the ability to cause stars to go supernova. The Jedi take an extremely conservative and cautious attitude towards teaching their students. Loss of self control, emotional instability, megalomania, any of these could cause a force user to threaten the lives of millions if not billions of people.

 

What emotions are there that threaten one's mental state in a relationship?

Infatuation, obsession, jealousy(then think of Jedi who have the power to manipulate and read thoughts, as well as shield their own thoughts from others)

What emotions might they experience if their loved one died?

Depression, Rage at the killer(the dark side offers the potentially of bringing them back/immortality/etc., they also have the power to seek vengeance)

What if they broke up?

Resentment, Anger, Desire to convince the ex to change their mind(again dangerous with people who can use mind control, or they might seek to recklessly improve their power to impress their ex)

 

Many of these are normal human emotions resulting from relationships, and aren't extremely harmful to ourselves or those around us except in rare cases. Force users aren't normal people though, they have the power to act upon these emotions. Jedi embrace a policy of strong self-restraint in order to protect others, Sith follow a policy of personal freedom to tyrannize others with their inborn power.

 

If this is too abstract, imagine if one of your loved ones were killed, and that you had to refrain from anger, even if that anger might give you the power to grant you vengeance and stop the killer from killing more innocents. A Jedi needs to be impartial in order to make the decisions that benefit the galaxy the most, giving in to strong emotion keeps them from that impartiality.

 

Well said. I comprehend the meaning if not the intent behind the Jedi Orders "aversion" to love. However, most of my characters are Imperials, and allowing your emotions to run rampant is just as debilitating, in my opinion.

 

Good posts here, enjoyed reading.

[Vandicus]

^This

 

Lore-wise though, the Jedi are cowards. Satele is a great example of this in Annihilation. A good part of the book is her running away from loving and getting attached to Theron.

 

Some Jedi in history have realized how dumb the rule is. Bindo, Revan/Bastila, Satele's mom. Luke abolished the silly rule, and in his order there's only been 1 Jedi who fell because of it, and to be fair Vergere had corrupted him long before Allana was born. Then later on, Luke fights a being of pure Dark Side energy by becoming a beacon of Light Side energy by opening himself to the Force and fueling it with all those positive emotions of love for his family and the Order.

 

The one Jedi who fell caused another galactic war and burned Kashyyyk. How many millions(or billions) of people do you think died? While the effectiveness of the rule may be brought into question, we don't know for sure that if the rule was still in place that this wouldn't have happened, it seems rather strange to dismiss the precaution as silly.

[TaylaEwa]

Yes. Remember he was having visions of Padme dying and sidious coerced anakin into believing he could stop it.

 

Love is the most powerful emotion. Anakin's love for Padme drove him to the dark side even though his intentions were pure. That is why it's forbidden.

 

But if it wasn't so forbidden.. he might have been able to ask someone for help in figuring out those dreams.

 

"Yoda, I've been having these really bad dreams about Padme dying.. can you meditate and see if you can help me figure out why?"

 

On the same token, if it wasn't so forbidden.. they could have gone back and saved his mother after Obi-wan delivered Anakin to the temple as a youngling.. Sure, they still could have played the "You'll never be able to see her again.. but atleast she'll be safe/happy. Now.. go learn and become a great jedi and make her proud!" card.. but no... they just left her as a slave with an uncertain future.

[aeterno]

Spoiler alert, if you don't rat the lovers out it's heavily implied that they've already fallen when you go back to talk to them.

 

It's one of those "makes you think" quests.

[Phrase]

Love is not taboo to Jedi. Attachment is taboo to Jedi. Observe the lore more carefully, IMO.

 

The Force is Love in it's purest form... undifferentiated, neither light nor dark.

 

Attachment is misuse of The Force for personal and selfish reasons, which is taboo to Jedi as it builds the dark side of the force.

 

In this regard, Jedi are "lightest" as even they do not properly embrace the force from a point of balance. Jedi, without realizing it..create a state of conflict in The Force by creating polarity and isolate an aspect of what is whole and complete in it's normal state. Enlightened Jedi understand this and know that if Light exists.. so does Dark, and that the two will interact to recreate a state of balance.

 

Pretty much this. Jedi are Buddhists with lightsabers. According to Buddhists, attachment is the cause of all human suffering. Romantic love for another is a form of attachment. This is what Yoda cautions Anakin of when he counsels him to let go of his attachments re: his mother. We can even see in the films that it is Anakin's overwhelming attachment to both his mother and Padme that Palpatine exploits to lead Anakin down the path to the dark side. However, in one of the best turns of dramatic irony in the films, Anakin's love for his son (and Luke's love for his father) is ultimately what redeems him.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Phrase

[RocketeerRaccoon]

The Jedi code is:

There is no emotion...

There is peace.

There is no ignorance...

There is knowledge.

There is no passion...

There is serenity.

There is no chaos...

There is harmony.

There is no death...

There is the force.

 

Love is an emotion, and love scorned brings chaos. Look at what happened with Vader (before he was Vader). The moment he thought Padme was cheating on him... BAM... Sith baby.

 

The Sith code is:

 

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.

Through passion, I gain strength.

Through strength, I gain power.

Through power, I gain victory.

Through victory, my chains are broken.

The Force shall free me.

 

From the looks of the Sith code, Sith actually have more freedom to do what they want because they allow passion, these can range from good passions like love and bad passions like revenge, the latter of which is a common thing with the Sith.

 

Because George Lucas is a terrible writer and was trying to create artificial roadblocks for PadMe and Anakin

 

Yeah, that's so true, it would have been better if there was no such thing as these codes, just make it a war between good and evil yet instead it's all grey really. As for me, I'm going to go back being a Sith Sorcerer and be Light aligned.

Edited July 1, 2013 by RocketeerRaccoon

[Kaisernick]

^^ I felt that Jolee explained the reasoning best in KOTOR1.

ive always wonderd if this is what Luke chose to do with his jedi order but anway.

 

I get why they had it forbidden in kotor and in the future but why satiele a child who's very existence is owed to 2 jedi getting busy kept the law, not to mention i always felt that the order was rebuilt after kotor 2 by the exile's companions and most of them seemed against the no love idea.

[SithKoriandr]

They forbid it because for some reason, when you have such great power as many a Force User does, many seem to forget basic common sense when something doesn't go their way.

 

Jedi rules are basically there because they figure without them, with all that power, you'd be just like the majority of the Sith (the Sith who use common sense are a minority). Don't get what you want? Use power to force it.

 

Powerful Force Users are basically fighting/proving the age old adage of "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

 

Never played KOTOR but sounds like Bindo knew how not to let all that power go to his head.

 

Anakin took everything to extremes. I disagree with the Jedi Order, kill them all, even the younglings! A sand person killed my mom? Kill them all!

 

This isn't helped by the Jedi Order who says "If you don't follow our rules, you're out."

 

Infact, I don't think the Jedi learn common sense until Luke comes around. What should be taught is "Look, you have a lot of power at your command. Don't become a jerk face."

[Pietrastor]

What I would like to know is where this "Jedi can't have relationships" stuff came from. Was it the prequels? Or EU after the Original Trilogy? Whoever came up with it must've been just having a good laugh.

[LordArtemis]

Love between two folks is a loss of emotional control. It can often lead to emotional irrationality, especially if something bad happens to one of them. This is a path to the dark side.

[Pietrastor]

Love between two folks is a loss of emotional control. It can often lead to emotional irrationality, especially if something bad happens to one of them. This is a path to the dark side.

While love MAY lead to bad emotional state, key word MAY, I say sexual and emotional frustration due to constant denial of love is a 100% GUARANTEED recipe for disaster sooner or later, not just MAY. This is why this entire concept falls flat on its face to me. It's unrealistic and makes the characters inhuman. And no, the humans in Star Wars Galaxy are not "aliens". Edited July 1, 2013 by Pietrastor

[SithKoriandr]

While love MAY lead to bad emotional state, key word MAY, I say sexual and emotional frustration due to constant denial of love is a 100% GUARANTEED recipe for disaster sooner or later, not just MAY. This is why this entire concept falls flat on its face to me. It's unrealistic and makes the characters inhuman. And no, the humans in Star Wars Galaxy are not "aliens".

 

There have been those on Earth who've been able to keep to this rule without going nuts.

 

It all goes back to it being for some reason, having a lot of Force Ability causes one to lose all sense of right and wrong.

 

"My love was killed by a wookie! Now I have to blow the whole planet up!"

 

That's what some of these powerful force users do It's made even worse by the non force users who see it all as some hokie religion or hold force users to some higher ideal.

[spectreclees]

Two words, Jolee Bindo. He's my hero.

 

One of my favorite Jedi. I wear his robes in his honor!

[Pietrastor]

There have been those on Earth who've been able to keep to this rule without going nuts.

Or have they? Regardless, people know that this would never work for AT LEAST 99% of the population so the entire concept appears silly, as if an alien who has no idea about human nature wrote it

[LordArtemis]

Logic and emotion are two separate entities. The argument can be made that the existence of one or the other is not sustainable for the health of a person, but if you follow either one as a mantra you probably have to reject the other.

 

They are mostly water and oil.

[DarthEccen]

The problem with love is it can cause irrational thoughts. And Jedi are all about the utilitarian. So, if you would rather destroy a million to save your husband, than let your husband die to save for a million, for example, then you're not fit to be a Jedi. That's basically the crux of the issue, there. Love is an emotion, and emotions can cause a being to not do the right thing. Love, being one of the stronger and more passionate emotions, often exacerbates this.

[GrimAce]

Because George Lucas is a terrible writer and was trying to create artificial roadblocks for PadMe and Anakin

 

It does pretty much boil down to this - especially when you look at the EU, where, depending on when the material was published, the rule on emotional attachments comes and goes seemingly on a whim. This is true of a lot of other things introduced in the Prequels, because George Lucas almost completely reconceptualized Star Wars for the Prequel Trilogy, rather then adhering to his original vision - for example, lightsabers were originally considered to be incredibly heavy, but Lucas decided that they would feel very light instead, seemingly on a whim and to allow the silly dance-fighting choreography that followed.

 

Granted, Leland Chee has done a great job of sorting out most of the mess, but that's the meta reason, at least.

 

The funny part about this rule is that there is no in-universe explanation for the rule being introduced. If you look at the Tales of the Jedi series, where Nomi Sunrider/Da'boda/whatever name doesn't get me sued by Dark Horse Comics, has two love interests, and in fact romantic relationships are a major recurring aspect of the series, you wouldn't be blamed for thinking it's perfectly normal and widely accepted. Jump forward 30 years to Knight of the Old Republic (or sooner, I haven't read the KOTOR comics), and suddenly it's taboo. Yet, as far as I can tell, there's absolutely no mention of the rule being introduced, or why...and in fact the lines are made even blurrier by the fact that Jolee Bindo's relationship was considered taboo before the events of KOTOR. So we have a miniscule timeframe at which the rule could have been introduced, yet no explanation as to what happened to make the Jedi change their stance on the idea (especially after going through the Great Sith War and seemingly not caring about it at all) or, perhaps more importantly, why.

Edited July 2, 2013 by GrimAce

[Bomyne]

Love can be a dangerous distraction. It can put your loved ones at risk, which leads to problems for you.

 

Let's say i'm a dark sith, Lord BlaBla. Yeah, thats the best i got. You're a lightside jedi that has chosen to love. You've done something to anger me so i target and hurt or kill your lover. Would you be unfazed by this? No way. The death of your loved one will send you into a blind rage that puts the entire republic at risk, trying to eliminate Lord Blabla.

 

Scenario 2: If you had to choose between letting your family die, or an entire ship or world, which would you choose?

[ScarletBlaze]

Bomyne;6496916]Love can be a dangerous distraction. It can put your loved ones at risk, which leads to problems for you.

 

Let's say i'm a dark sith, Lord BlaBla. Yeah, thats the best i got. You're a lightside jedi that has chosen to love. You've done something to anger me so i target and hurt or kill your lover. Would you be unfazed by this? No way. The death of your loved one will send you into a blind rage that puts the entire republic at risk, trying to eliminate Lord Blabla.

 

You can't say with 100% accuracy everyone would react like this. Some people can control their anger even while in love. They know that reacting out of anger is just what the sith wants. Some can take a step back and wait till they are calmer to deal with the situation.

[LeonBraun]

Its basically the same as the priesthood.

 

The priesthood views the relationship between the person and God as so important and divine that any other relationship spoils it.

 

This is very similar to how the Jedi council believes that to be Jedi, your relationship with the force should not be broken by any other relationship.

 

The ironic thing about your post here is that God, in Christian doctrine IS love. Also Ironic is that along with eastern religions, a lot of the inspiration for the force comes from Christianity, in fact "May the force be with you" is lifted right out of the Catholic mass (May the Lord be with you).

 

To take this one step further, if we juxtapose the Jedi saying with the Catholic saying, as in Force=God, then we would also have to note that the force would then also equal love.

 

Just saying =)

[Bomyne]

You can't say with 100% accuracy everyone would react like this. Some people can control their anger even while in love. They know that reacting out of anger is just what the sith wants. Some can take a step back and wait till they are calmer to deal with the situation.

 

Maybe not THAT with 100% accuracy, but I can say with 100% accuracy that you wouldn't be unfazed by it. And in a life and death situation, with innocent lives at stake, you don't have time to step back and calm down.

 

"The Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." If you had to choose between saving a shuttle your lover and kids are on, or saving a planet full of 1 billion people, A Jedi needs to be able to choose the billion people without hesitation. No body would be able to choose to sacrifice their loved ones . And that i believe is at the core of the Jedi belief.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Bomyne

[Pagy]

Its basically the same as the priesthood.

 

The priesthood views the relationship between the person and God as so important and divine that any other relationship spoils it.

 

This is very similar to how the Jedi council believes that to be Jedi, your relationship with the force should not be broken by any other relationship.

um...completely out of left field and wrong.

 

lucas explains in aotc...love isnt forbidden per se, attachment is. you cannot be selfless if you have attachments...obvious stepping stone to dark side.

[SithKoriandr]

Love can be a dangerous distraction. It can put your loved ones at risk, which leads to problems for you.

 

Let's say i'm a dark sith, Lord BlaBla. Yeah, thats the best i got. You're a lightside jedi that has chosen to love. You've done something to anger me so i target and hurt or kill your lover. Would you be unfazed by this? No way. The death of your loved one will send you into a blind rage that puts the entire republic at risk, trying to eliminate Lord Blabla.

 

Scenario 2: If you had to choose between letting your family die, or an entire ship or world, which would you choose?

 

The fail here, is thinking you go into a blind rage that endangers billions. Though for some JEDI (Anakin) this is obviously the case. And for JEDI/SITH period this seems to be the case, though SITH in general seem to be at that stage 24/7.