ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Vhaegrant]

Maybe not exactly untruthful, since the "same time" would still fall into the "any time" category. It definitely was a misrepresentation, IMO, since "same time" clearly is not the same as "any time".

As I was responding to Sethdil's question and not responding to your quote I don't see how I was misrepresenting anything.

The core design feature of the Advanced Class is that it locks the core abilities of tanks away from the healer specialisation and vice versa.

The core design feature of making AC choice permanent is that it makes it 'at any time' rather than 'at the same time'.

I notice that you really want to ignore, or at least downplay, the fact that that ambiguous statement, upon which you hang all your hopes, was uttered well over 18 months ago, and there has been NOT ONE WORD from anyone associated with BW. Not one single peep from the devs despite the numerous threads and cries from those who don't want to put forth the modicum of effort and time to level that new class which they want to play.

I've not downplayed that quote. I've posted it in its entirety enough times on this thread with the full link to Dulfy's original interview and pointed out it's the originator of this whole thread. If a forumite is too lazy to read the OP and note the date that's hardly my fault.

Again, BW's stance has tended to be no further comment on questions they have already given an answer to.

The only emphasis I have ever put on the quotes is that the comments on not allowing AC swap were made by devs no longer working on the game at a time when it was subscription model only. The AC swap probably likely was by a current lead designer at the time of transition to the hybrid subscription model. Who knows what the criteria are for it to become a reality? That would be in the hands of the current devs.

But don't worry, I'm sure we'll all be able to log in next week and change our class because someone said it wold "likely happen".

Nobody has said a class swap would 'likely happen'. They have said an Advanced Class is likely probable. But, if you are happy with your AC choice why would you want to change it?

I've also got some oceanfront property on Tattooine to sell you.

Cool, best I buy Blizz a mankini

[Vhaegrant]

I never got the impression people asking for this feature were looking for some kind of switch to go back and forth. This always appeared to me to be an either one-time thing or extremely limited/expensive option to correct a mistake (or I guess, laziness).

 

A 'switch' was one of the options I was asking for when we had a long list of options. But, I would have wanted it to be a reward for having levelled up both of the two ACs not a shortcut.

 

On the other hand, I see the most likely implementation to appeal more to those wanting to resurrect a character they stopped playing or are no longer happy with. For that a one shot consumable works best.

[Raansu]

Not everyone has been playing since launch, nor at the rate you seem to be. I've been here since launch and only have 3 55's...all I'll ever have most likely. This would benefit the casual player, not guys like you.

 

Exactly what I'd expect it to be used for. There would surely be a few wealthy players who wouldn't think twice about swapping, but I believe they'd be few and far between.

 

I'd rather keep a player who picked wrong, by allowing them to change AC, than to lose that player because they made an easy mistake.

 

Even a casual could get to 55 in a single double xp event and we just had one for an entire week. Either way AC respec is stupid. Either roll the class you want to play or don't. Trooper for example being able to do all 3 roles with an AC respec would be completely broken.

[Vhaegrant]

in conclusion advanced respec over powers 2 of the 4 character choices and trivializes the other two. It gives the upper hand to troopers and sages who then can act in all 3 roles (DPS,TANK and HEALS) while Knights and smugglers are left out in the cold still only having access to two of the 3 roles.

This is only really true if you allow unfettered AC swapping. Applying a real cost in terms of cc should limit the desirability of wanting to switch back and forth on an hourly basis.

This hole in Classes not covering all the roles available still exists if you stick with the current solution of levelling up a second character of the alternate AC.

If I have two separate Bounty Hunters, a Powertech (Tank/meleeDPS) and a Mercenary (Healer/rangedDPS) I can still cover all the bases, with more options for OPs *** each of them has a separate lockout and if desired can make sure the better DPS mods get slotted in legacy gear so I can share it between them.

While a player with two separate Sith Warriors, a Marauder (meleeDPS/meleeDPS/SmashmonkeyDPS) and a Juggernaut (Tank/meleeDPS/SmashmonkeyDPS) is still unable to cover all the roles.

 

Make me change my mind tell me how to lock this advantage down so that it does not kill Knights or Smugglers. I see several ways.

1, the cost is 5000 CCs for a one time use advanced class respec and if you want to respec you have to pay the 5000 CCs again. This option would slow down advance class jumpers by forcing them to depart with huge sums of real cash.

2. Make it an event that is rare like double XP, you get a unique character bound token when logging in during the respec week that you can turn into a vendor to get an advanced class reset. This will also lock down the players could not jump back and forth willynilly.

I've always supported a third option. Over time introduce new AC options to all the classes. Use these new ACs to fill the role gaps that certain Classes lack (A tank role for Imperial Agents, a heal role for Sith Warriors) and/or weapon choices (I've always wanted a proper Mandalorian Bounty Hunter who uses melee weapons from the start a la Torian Cadera or Akaavi Spar, and not forced to play a Sith Warrior that chooses to dress in Mando Armour and use Vibroblades.)

It should be noted that this third choice also drives the uptake of the CM consumable for allowing an AC swap.

[hadoken]

Even a casual could get to 55 in a single double xp event and we just had one for an entire week. Either way AC respec is stupid. Either roll the class you want to play or don't. Trooper for example being able to do all 3 roles with an AC respec would be completely broken.

 

Honestly though if they made it cost 2k CC (or more) every time you changed your AC, why do we care? That's only benefiting the company because someone is lazy or whatever.

 

That's kind of why I think we're not going to get this feature. They would have done it by now and be profiting big time if it were something they were interested in (or I guess, technically capable of - it could be that) doing.

[TUXs]

Even a casual could get to 55 in a single double xp event and we just had one for an entire week. Either way AC respec is stupid. Either roll the class you want to play or don't. Trooper for example being able to do all 3 roles with an AC respec would be completely broken.

1-55 in a single event? How much do you play this game? I couldn't...even over a week.

 

It's not stupid. People created toons without knowing how they would play. Classes play VERY different at 55 than they do at 10 so please explain exactly how someone was to know at 10, what they wanted? 1-54 has no need for a tank OR a healer.

 

And how is Trooper different? It would still be limited to just ONE of TWO roles at a time, like every other Class. Saying it would be "broken" is just hyperbole.

[Vhaegrant]

Even a casual could get to 55 in a single double xp event and we just had one for an entire week. Either way AC respec is stupid. Either roll the class you want to play or don't. Trooper for example being able to do all 3 roles with an AC respec would be completely broken.

 

I love the disparaging way 'hardcore' gamers view the playing habits of others.

I'm a casual player. My hours of play fluctuate wildly, but I rarely get more than an hour or two at the weekend, during the week it can vary wildly depending on shift pattern and other factors. It usually takes me a couple of months to get a character to 55.

 

I really wish MMOs could break out of this mindset that some how a time sink is an indicator of skill. In the old subscription model it kept bums on seat and paying for a subscription longer. In the new hybrid model time sink amounts for very little but convenience features that allow players to choose how they invest their time and/or money are ideal.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Vhaegrant

[Anaesha]

1-55 in a single event? How much do you play this game? I couldn't...even over a week.

 

It's not stupid. People created toons without knowing how they would play. Classes play VERY different at 55 than they do at 10 so please explain exactly how someone was to know at 10, what they wanted? 1-54 has no need for a tank OR a healer.

 

And how is Trooper different? It would still be limited to just ONE of TWO roles at a time, like every other Class. Saying it would be "broken" is just hyperbole.

 

He's probably referring to those people who spam KDY during a Double Xp weekend with XP boosts. However, Playing the game as it was meant to be during a double xp weekend it's impossible to make 55.

[Raansu]

However, Playing the game as it was meant to be during a double xp weekend it's impossible to make 55.

 

No it isn't.

[TUXs]

No it isn't.

To any reasonable player, it is. If you have nothing but free time and no responsibilities or desires to do more than grind, I'm sure you can do it in a weekend during double XP...but that's not normal or in anyway indicative of the overwhelming majority of players.

[Anzel]

I can't wait for AC changes. I have a bunch of them already planned

[DOHboy]

I can't wait for AC changes. I have a bunch of them already planned

 

you could probably just re-roll a toon (and delete old ones once you mail everything over) faster than simply waiting for AC that may never be implemented.

[Ratajack]

you could probably just re-roll a toon (and delete old ones once you mail everything over) faster than simply waiting for AC that may never be implemented.

 

I suspect that many would rather wait to have that new class simply handed to them, rather than actually have to put forth even a modicum of time and effort to actually level that new class.

[Ratajack]

We're discussing ADVANCED Class change, not Class change. They're different, even according to Bioware.

http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes

 

What does your guild roster, or a /who have to say when it comes to player's CLASSES?

 

I know my imperial guild lists our 55's as POWERTECH, MERCENARY, SNIPER, OPERATIVE, etc. We do not have a single 55 with a class of bounty hunter, sith inquisitor, sith warrior or imperial agent.

 

My republic guild has no 55 troopers, jedi knights, jedi consulars or smugglers.

[Anaesha]

What does your guild roster, or a /who have to say when it comes to player's CLASSES?

 

I know my imperial guild lists our 55's as POWERTECH, MERCENARY, SNIPER, OPERATIVE, etc. We do not have a single 55 with a class of bounty hunter, sith inquisitor, sith warrior or imperial agent.

 

My republic guild has no 55 troopers, jedi knights, jedi consulars or smugglers.

 

Inquisitor/Consular, Bounty Hunter/Trooper, Agent/Smuggler, and Warrior/Jedi Knight are all Base classes aka Faction Class.

 

Sorc/Sin, Merc/PT, Sniper/OP, and Jugg/Mara are all Advanced classes so they are fundamentally different as it would be possible to set up AC changes but Base Class changes would be impossible because of "flags" set while playing the class stories.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Anaesha

[TUXs]

What does your guild roster, or a /who have to say when it comes to player's CLASSES?

 

I know my imperial guild lists our 55's as POWERTECH, MERCENARY, SNIPER, OPERATIVE, etc. We do not have a single 55 with a class of bounty hunter, sith inquisitor, sith warrior or imperial agent.

 

My republic guild has no 55 troopers, jedi knights, jedi consulars or smugglers.

My guild has 3 Troopers, at least 1 Knight and at least one Smuggler that was leveled strictly via GSF (all 55). But I've told you this before.

 

Again, here's your proof of there only being 4 CLASSES per faction:

http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes

[Vhaegrant]

What does your guild roster, or a /who have to say when it comes to player's CLASSES?

 

I know my imperial guild lists our 55's as POWERTECH, MERCENARY, SNIPER, OPERATIVE, etc. We do not have a single 55 with a class of bounty hunter, sith inquisitor, sith warrior or imperial agent.

 

My republic guild has no 55 troopers, jedi knights, jedi consulars or smugglers.

 

I thought we'd been over this, more than once...

 

The 'Class' column in the Guild Roster and /who is a space saving measure. Listing BOTH Class and Advanced Class would be redundant. If a character is listed as a Powertech or Mercenary you know it's an AC and you can infer the parent Class of Bounty Hunter. If a character is listed as Bounty Hunter you know they have yet to chose an AC.

 

What would be more helpful would be an indication of what role they have chosen as well, maybe take the roles selected in the Group Finder and display them in the 'notes' section.

[Anzel]

As soon as they make this available I have 2 characters I'm going to switch right away. I'm sick of my characters being nerfed and the other AC becoming the FoTM. I can't wait for this.

[BuriDogshin]

As soon as they make this available I have 2 characters I'm going to switch right away. I'm sick of my characters being nerfed and the other AC becoming the FoTM. I can't wait for this.

 

This is why AC switch will never happen. "FoTM" is a nefarious plot to force hardcore players to eventually level at least one of every advanced class for both factions by periodically "rebalancing" the ACs.

 

I am absolutely kidding. Probably.

[Anzel]

This is why AC switch will never happen. "FoTM" is a nefarious plot to force hardcore players to eventually level at least one of every advanced class for both factions by periodically "rebalancing" the ACs.

 

I am absolutely kidding. Probably.

 

But I can't come up with that many cool sounding names

[BuriDogshin]

But I can't come up with that many cool sounding names

Use corresponding Ùñíçðdé characters variants like the kool kids do. Tho there are some downsides to that ...

[TUXs]

This is why AC switch will never happen. "FoTM" is a nefarious plot to force hardcore players to eventually level at least one of every advanced class for both factions by periodically "rebalancing" the ACs.

 

I am absolutely kidding. Probably.

 

LOL! I'm glad I'm not the only person who's pondered such a thing

[Savej]

At any rate, yes, your guild roster lists your advanced class if you have one. How is that an argument? I'm sure some people would have it list your spec instead of that. No one wants to see "guardian", they want to see "melee dps" or "tank"... Same deal in Wow - is my Warrior an arms warrior (dps ~guardian) or a fury warrior (~sentinel) or a protection warrior (~guardian tank)? What the guild sees and shows if it just shows Base Class or Adv Class, it's incomplete...

 

This has nothing to do with an argument about why someone can't respec ACs, how the devs in charge might see things or what disastrous repercussions would occur if players were suddenly allowed to respec. But when my guardian wants to train he goes to the Jedi Knight trainer, even at 54. When he picks up his ship he goes to the Jedi Knight turbolift (it says "Jedi Knight" if you mouse over it). Is he not still a Jedi Knight because the game is reminding me of that every day? Is his base CLASS not "Jedi Knight"?

Edited July 23, 2014 by Savej

[Ratajack]

My guild has 3 Troopers, at least 1 Knight and at least one Smuggler that was leveled strictly via GSF (all 55). But I've told you this before.

 

Again, here's your proof of there only being 4 CLASSES per faction:

http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes

 

So, five level 55 members of your guild have the class trooper, jedi knight and smuggler. How many level 55's have their CLASS listed as gunslinger, scoundrel, vanguard, commando, jedi guardian, jedi sentinel, jedi sage or jedi shadow.

 

I've already shown in another thread the numerous quotes from the devs that AC's are fundamentally DIFFERENT classes and were treated as such.

 

You can claim that they are not the same class since admitting that they are different classes would not mesh with your desire to see BW simply hand players a new class, but that does not change the facts.

[Ratajack]

At any rate, yes, your guild roster lists your advanced class if you have one. How is that an argument? I'm sure some people would have it list your spec instead of that. No one wants to see "guardian", they want to see "melee dps" or "tank"... Same deal in Wow - is my Warrior an arms warrior (dps ~guardian) or a fury warrior (~sentinel) or a protection warrior (~guardian tank)? What the guild sees and shows if it just shows Base Class or Adv Class, it's incomplete...

 

This has nothing to do with an argument about why someone can't respec ACs, how the devs in charge might see things or what disastrous repercussions would occur if players were suddenly allowed to respec. But when my guardian wants to train he goes to the Jedi Knight trainer, even at 54. When he picks up his ship he goes to the Jedi Knight turbolift (it says "Jedi Knight" if you mouse over it). Is he not still a Jedi Knight because the game is reminding me of that every day? Is his base CLASS not "Jedi Knight"?

 

His story if the jedi knight story. You could call hat his base class. Notice, however, it is called advanced CLASS, not advanced spec.

 

Regardless, BW has so far chosen not to allow class (AC) changes, thankfully. Given their total and complete silence on this issue for over 20 months, despite all the clamoring and countless threads full of cries to be able to change class (AC), I do not expect to see class (AC) changes introduced any time in the foreseeable future.

 

As others have stated, in all the time that people have cried to be handed a new class (AC), most players could have leveled and geared that new class had they actually taken the initiative to solve their perceived problem instead of crying for someone else (BW) to solve it for them.