ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Halabit]

This is a bad idea. Roll a new alt and learn how to play it. I created 2 of every class, 1 of each advanced class. That's 16 alts. I did this so I could have all the advanced classes and not have to worry about which was better or which one I wanted more. Stop trying to wreck my game!

 

Honestly I don't want to get in troll/bot war with you, but wrecking someone game this is not, I have 17 chars atm , playing since closed beta, example I have 3xJuggs on 55, I don't see a reason not to allow someone to change their adv class , in this example from Jug>Mara, at least once per char.

 

Would you care to elaborate on specific balance concerns?

 

In short, example, when going to pvp everybody can switch to juggs , after wzs they just switch to maras. That would kinda kill immersion a little imo. Also with new patch notes and class changes if some adv class get update we can expect, if CD is short, most ppl changing their adv class until their original isn't buff/fixes or something else etc etc

 

Imo give adv class change but with consequences, so people don't do it on a whim , they need to be sure they really want to change their adv class and play with it for a long time (for example six months) without opportunitie to switch back before cd.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Halabit

[Vhaegrant]

In short, example, when going to pvp everybody can switch to juggs , after wzs they just switch to maras. That would kinda kill immersion a little imo.

One of the reasons I don't have any real issues with the prospect of allowing an Advanced Class switch is it's similarity to the already available Respecialisation option. Those Advanced Classes that have wildly different specs (Tank <-> DPS, Heal <-> DPS) can play through PvP in one spec and then after the WZ switch out to the other. Considering the vast difference in roles and enough of a difference to usually require a full gear change as well this is comparable to the proposed AC switch.

 

Also with new patch notes and class changes if some adv class get update we can expect, if CD is short, most ppl changing their adv class until their original isn't buff/fixes or something else etc etc

Yes, sometimes Class/ Advanced Class/Specialisation balancing can cause issues from one build to the next. A lot of that tends to be overreaction from a player base that doesn't want their OP abilities touched, or struggle to learn the basics of PvP play (knowing what does what and/or going as far to learn how to play with keybindings and without macros). Personally in an ideal world I would love to see an MMO brave enough to separate the abilities between PvP and PvE, but I guess you'd have to loose the option of Open World PvP (to my mind an acceptable compromise).

As to changing from a nerfed AC to a buffed/ unchanged AC. It would be a clear indication to the development team that their changes weren't perceived well by the majority of the playerbase. At the same time allowing players to continue in a competitive vein with their character.

 

Imo give adv class change but with consequences, so people don't do it on a whim , they need to be sure they really want to change their adv class and play with it for a long time (for example six months) without opportunitie to switch back before cd.

I think for most players out there attaching a Cartel Market price tag to the option is enough of a consequence. Setting the price in a band that would make you stop and think but not necessarily so high as to be punitive. 1,000cc has always seemed to be the sweet spot to me (about £5), but I could understand putting it as high as 2,000cc (although this would certainly limit its uptake for use).

[Anzel]

Still no response from EA? How many posts have their been on this? Anything from EA? Nobody? Is anyone there even embarrassed by this?

[RandomXChance]

Still no response from EA? How many posts have their been on this? Anything from EA? Nobody? Is anyone there even embarrassed by this?

 

Embarrassed by what? The same as continuation of class storylines. Last word was not out of the question but no current plans. So either nothing has changed or they are working on it but want it to be a surprise.

 

Or were you insinuating that after X number of pages in a thread there is a required response (although a pop in with "no change" would be nice)?

[Ratajack]

Honestly I don't want to get in troll/bot war with you, but wrecking someone game this is not, I have 17 chars atm , playing since closed beta, example I have 3xJuggs on 55, I don't see a reason not to allow someone to change their adv class , in this example from Jug>Mara, at least once per char.

 

 

 

 

Other than the fact that it has been that way since before launch and the fact that each and every player is advised no less than four times by two separate NPC's that your choice of AC is PERMANENT and cannot be undone, you mean?

 

If you have been playing since closed BETA, then you should know that the decision not allow class (AC) changes was made well before launch and that decision was based at least in part upon the desires of the majority of the players as indicated by BW polls regarding class (AC) changes.

[Halabit]

If you have been playing since closed BETA, then you should know that the decision not allow class (AC) changes was made well before launch and that decision was based at least in part upon the desires of the majority of the players as indicated by BW polls regarding class (AC) changes.

 

Decisions change over time as game evolves

 

One of the reasons I don't have any real issues with the prospect of allowing an Advanced Class switch is it's similarity to the already available Respecialisation option. Those Advanced Classes that have wildly different specs (Tank <-> DPS, Heal <-> DPS) can play through PvP in one spec and then after the WZ switch out to the other. Considering the vast difference in roles and enough of a difference to usually require a full gear change as well this is comparable to the proposed AC switch.

 

I agree with you but for me personally changing adv class without any cd would break game immersion althou as I said I agree with you.

 

I think for most players out there attaching a Cartel Market price tag to the option is enough of a consequence. Setting the price in a band that would make you stop and think but not necessarily so high as to be punitive. 1,000cc has always seemed to be the sweet spot to me (about £5), but I could understand putting it as high as 2,000cc (although this would certainly limit its uptake for use).

 

Well CC market is here and there is no going back, with new tauntaun mount i think price would be around 3000cc . Personally I think 1000c as fair price but I don't see them putting that low price for this kind of service anymore.

 

Offering this kind of service without cd , may give richer people advantage and little p2w , althou that is already present with cc market (even so you can buy most stuff on gtn).

Edited July 3, 2014 by Halabit

[Heat-Wave]

What I cannot understand is how my ability or lack of to change my advanced class in any way affects someone else's game experience.

 

Unless it is just grumpy feelings from people who took the time to level alts of each AC and don't want anyone else to not have to do it.

 

I would be happy to pay for AC changes, I have several alts that I don't play because of it, and other ACs that I'd like to try, but if won't roll and level an entire alt for it.

 

Any comments about what was said years ago are well beside the point, we now ride around on Rancors, this is just a game, let everyone enjoy it their way.

[Vhaegrant]

I agree with you but for me personally changing adv class without any cd would break game immersion althou as I said I agree with you.

I guess it's one of things that makes the limitations of class based systems so obvious. Personally I'd prefer to see the current respecialisations limited to certain locations, I was fine with the reset points on fleet and home worlds at launch, I would have thought a terminal on your ship that allowed the same would have been ideal. Instead they gave you an anywhere, anytime options (although I believe they've removed the mid-wz spec swap).

Well CC market is here and there is no going back, with new tauntaun mount i think price would be around 3000cc . Personally I think 1000c as fair price but I don't see them putting that low price for this kind of service anymore.

It really depends on where they want to target the uptake of AC swapping. If it's to allow players a way of resurrecting a character they stopped playing because they felt they were in the wrong AC then I could see them hoing with a higher cost, similar to the cost of a server swap (not sure what that stands at).

If on the other hand they want to use it as a convenience feature to encourage full swapping between roles (Tank <-> Heal, as well as Tank<->DPS, Heal<->DPS) then that could be a smaller cost for a one off switch or a much, much larger cost to enable a switch function (that I would still prefer to see limited by location, ie a terminal on ship)

Offering this kind of service without cd , may give richer people advantage and little p2w , althou that is already present with cc market (even so you can buy most stuff on gtn).

I don't think SWTOR has crossed the P2W threshold yet. There is nothing from the CM that is more powerful than items that can be earned in game. It is a constant balance though between providing convenience features that allow players with less time but higher disposable income to actively participate on a footing to those with vast amounts of disposable time but limited finance. At the end of the day the true measure should be the skill of the player and I feel that still stands.

[Ratajack]

Decisions change over time as game evolves

 

 

 

 

Yes, decisions can change over time. Many decisions are not changed.

 

It would seem that since we are still under the same restrictions regarding class (AC) changes that were in place at launch, that this is one decision that has not changed. Given the utter and complete total silence on this subject for well over a year and a half, since the last ambiguous statement, it would seem that it is also one decision that is not going to be changed in the foreseeable future.

 

There have been over 40 threads begging for the option to change class. We are well over 500 pages in this thread alone and there has not been one yellow post, not one peep, not even a hint of a whisper that class (AC) changes are even still on the wall of crazy.

[Ratajack]

What I cannot understand is how my ability or lack of to change my advanced class in any way affects someone else's game experience.

 

Unless it is just grumpy feelings from people who took the time to level alts of each AC and don't want anyone else to not have to do it.

 

I would be happy to pay for AC changes, I have several alts that I don't play because of it, and other ACs that I'd like to try, but if won't roll and level an entire alt for it.

 

Any comments about what was said years ago are well beside the point, we now ride around on Rancors, this is just a game, let everyone enjoy it their way.

 

You affect the game play experience of each and every player with whom you come into contact or with whom you interact.

[Mozepy]

If you have been playing since closed BETA, then you should know that the decision not allow class (AC) changes was made well before launch and that decision was based at least in part upon the desires of the majority of the players as indicated by BW polls regarding class (AC) changes.

 

The quoted article was after launch. Obviously the devs did not consider the matter closed during beta nor at launch. Your statement is irrelevant.

[Mozepy]

You affect the game play experience of each and every player with whom you come into contact or with whom you interact.

 

For the better.

[TX_Angel]

There have been over 40 threads begging for the option to change class. We are well over 500 pages in this thread alone and there has not been one yellow post, not one peep, not even a hint of a whisper that class (AC) changes are even still on the wall of crazy.

 

Perhaps that speaks to the desire of a large number of players to have them?

 

Are we here to play the game that Bioware wants to make, or is Bioware here to make the game we want to play?

[TX_Angel]

You affect the game play experience of each and every player with whom you come into contact or with whom you interact.

 

Yes, that is true... but my changing AC does not in any way, shape, or form, actually affect the game for anyone else.

 

What is the difference between having a single trooper and switching between Commando and Vanguard, vs. just having two alts and logging in and out between the two of them?

 

Nothing, the answer to that is nothing.

 

It is a stupid restriction and I have yet to read a single argument for why my changing AC would affect anyone else's game in any way.

[Strajder]

Like I said, the option exists in WoW. You get two slots for specializations (=advanced classes, three specs available per class) and you can switch between them at any time for free. You can also reassign those slots for a fee, at a vendor. But even there, it creates problems when a player is not experienced enough or doesn't have well intentions. Specs have different stat priorities, and without having a separate set of gear in your inventory to switch to after switching a spec, one of the specs will be gimped.

 

Both sides of this argument are "right". Those who are for the change have valid reasons to request it - not everyone is willing to create an alt just to explore the gameplay of a different advanced class. On the other hand, it is easy to see why practicing an advanced class which you didn't play as before in a flashpoint or, god forbid, an operation is bad. Bioware probably has reasons not to implement it as well - more alts means more leveling, more cartel market transactions, more time in the game, and so on.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Strajder

[Ratajack]

For the better.

 

Or the worse.

[Ratajack]

Perhaps that speaks to the desire of a large number of players to have them?

 

Are we here to play the game that Bioware wants to make, or is Bioware here to make the game we want to play?

 

There is also a large number of players the do NOT want to see class changes implemented. Are they here to play the game the BW makes, or the game that those members of the "lazy, entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd who are too lazy to actually level that new class want to play?

 

I would say that you if you are here playing the game, you are playing the game that BW is making. If BW is not making the game you want to play, then why are you still here? The door is that way. --------->

[Ratajack]

The quoted article was after launch. Obviously the devs did not consider the matter closed during beta nor at launch. Your statement is irrelevant.

 

That ambiguous statement was made after launch, true. How much have we heard from the devs about allowing class changes since that ambiguous statement was made over a year and a half ago?

 

Do you know what a "soft no" is? It's that "maybe" answer you give your kids when they keep asking you to take them for ice cream and you really don't want to take them.

 

That is a like like "AC changes will 'likely happen eventually' ". They give no definite that it will happen, nor do they even give any kind of a time frame. The wording they chose was, IMO, chosen very carefully so that those that are too lazy to level that new class and want BW to hand them a new class can believe that class changes are coming, while those against class changes can believe that they will not happen.

 

I have said many times that we may very well see class changes allowed, but I do not think we will see them in the foreseeable future. I do not think they will even be a part of the 3.0 update.

[Anzel]

There is also a large number of players the do NOT want to see class changes implemented. Are they here to play the game the BW makes, or the game that those members of the "lazy, entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd who are too lazy to actually level that new class want to play?

 

I would say that you if you are here playing the game, you are playing the game that BW is making. If BW is not making the game you want to play, then why are you still here? The door is that way. --------->

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA<DEEPBREATH>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Go learn a foreign language or how to play the piano if you want to feel "accomplished". This is a game where you sit on your butt and push little buttons. You have accomplished absolutey nothing except for to entertain yourself while you were playing it.

 

We're not training MMA or playing rugby or something here. Calm down with the lazy and entitled talk. This is a MMO forum LOL.

[Ratajack]

Yes, that is true... but my changing AC does not in any way, shape, or form, actually affect the game for anyone else.

 

What is the difference between having a single trooper and switching between Commando and Vanguard, vs. just having two alts and logging in and out between the two of them?

 

Nothing, the answer to that is nothing.

 

It is a stupid restriction and I have yet to read a single argument for why my changing AC would affect anyone else's game in any way.

 

It's a restriction put in place by the devs well before launch and a restriction to which you agreed when you chose your AC.

 

Now, for whatever reason you want to change your class. You also want to just dismiss every reason that has been given in this thread alone as to why allowing class changes may not be a good thing and why allowing players to change their class would affect the game play experience of every player. IMO, this is likely because those reasons do not mesh with your desire to change your class.

[Ratajack]

Like I said, the option exists in WoW. You get two slots for specializations (=advanced classes, three specs available per class) and you can switch between them at any time for free. You can also reassign those slots for a fee, at a vendor. But even there, it creates problems when a player is not experienced enough or doesn't have well intentions. Specs have different stat priorities, and without having a separate set of gear in your inventory to switch to after switching a spec, one of the specs will be gimped.

 

Both sides of this argument are "right". Those who are for the change have valid reasons to request it - not everyone is willing to create an alt just to explore the gameplay of a different advanced class. On the other hand, it is easy to see why practicing an advanced class which you didn't play as before in a flashpoint or, god forbid, an operation is bad. Bioware probably has reasons not to implement it as well - more alts means more leveling, more cartel market transactions, more time in the game, and so on.

 

The option does not exist in WoW.

 

In WoW, each class has three specs, with the druid class having access to a newly added fourth spec. You can change between those three (or four, in the case of the druid) specs, but you cannot change your class. WoW has a dual spec option that allows for a one-button does it all spec change, but you are limited to two specs.

 

In this game each class (AC) has access to three specs. You can change between those three specs at any time, but you cannot change your class (AC). In this game, we have field respec which allows for an infinite number of specs, but does not have the one button does it all feature.

[Ratajack]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA<DEEPBREATH>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Go learn a foreign language or how to play the piano if you want to feel "accomplished". This is a game where you sit on your butt and push little buttons. You have accomplished absolutey nothing except for to entertain yourself while you were playing it.

 

We're not training MMA or playing rugby or something here. Calm down with the lazy and entitled talk. This is a MMO forum LOL.

 

I'm not the one begging BW to change the game to cater to my aversion to the effort required to actually level that new class I wish to play. I'm not the one who is asking for handouts.

 

 

I'm one of those who is asking BW not to cater to the "lazy, entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort and cost as possible" crowd.

[Vhaegrant]

It's a restriction put in place by the devs well before launch and a restriction to which you agreed when you chose your AC.

 

Now, for whatever reason you want to change your class. You also want to just dismiss every reason that has been given in this thread alone as to why allowing class changes may not be a good thing and why allowing players to change their class would affect the game play experience of every player. IMO, this is likely because those reasons do not mesh with your desire to change your class.

 

Numerous design decisions from launch that were underpinned by more substantial concerns have since been revoked. Either because of player input (the appearance of adaptive armour and colour dyes) or market demands (introduction of cartel market and hybrid subscription).

Allowing AC swap or not allowing AC swap is no different in this regard.

[Vhaegrant]

The option does not exist in WoW.

 

In WoW, each class has three specs, with the druid class having access to a newly added fourth spec. You can change between those three (or four, in the case of the druid) specs, but you cannot change your class. WoW has a dual spec option that allows for a one-button does it all spec change, but you are limited to two specs.

 

In this game each class (AC) has access to three specs. You can change between those three specs at any time, but you cannot change your class (AC). In this game, we have field respec which allows for an infinite number of specs, but does not have the one button does it all feature.

 

SWTOR Advanced Classes are not directly comparable to WoW classes.

SWTOR has a three stage class based system. You choose a Class, you choose an Advanced Class, you choose a Specialisation (role).

WoW only has a two stage class based system. You choose a Class, you choose a Specialisation (role).

 

The contention is where the Advanced Class sits on the scale of balance. As a Subset of the parent class it is more of an advanced specialisation.

I honestly think this discussion would not be so entrenched if it was...

 

Choose a Class -> Choose a Specialisation -> Choose an Advanced Specialisation.

[Vhaegrant]

I'm not the one begging BW to change the game to cater to my aversion to the effort required to actually level that new class I wish to play. I'm not the one who is asking for handouts.

 

 

I'm one of those who is asking BW not to cater to the "lazy, entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort and cost as possible" crowd.

 

I don't recall anyone asking for 'Handouts'. Most in favour are asking for a swap system that comes at a cost (cash, cartel or credits) and with a cooldown.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Vhaegrant