ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Essence_of_Light]

Not sure how this post keeps getting resurrected lol.

 

I'm not reading all the pages to see if anyone has said this, but here's why there is NOT an advanced class change (IMO).

 

Each of the 8 Advanced Classes are considered a unique Class of its own. Having a Marauder and wanting to change to a Juggernaut in SWTOR would be like wanting to change from a Druid to a Warrior in WoW. The classes are unique. They have different abilities, different armor, different achievements.

 

Granted every Marauder and Juggernaut start off as the same Warrior class, but around level 10 when you choose your Advanced Class, there a nice box that pops up and tells you the choice is PERMANENT.

 

Leveling doesn't take long in this game, and it's far more enjoyable than other games. Just level another toon.

 

An advanced class change wouldn't be good enough. There would be people crying about their armor being unusable because its healing gear and they class changed to a tank. People would complain about their achievements for the class they changed from being reset (assuming BW would, and should IMO, do that). And I bet there would even be people crying about how they don't like the class they changed to and want to go back for free. Guaranteed.

 

Just reroll another character. Jeez.

 

This has been brought up time, after time, after time, but it seems like the people who are very.... passionate about AC changes can't seem to understand it. There is a reason ACs are called Advanced Classes, people!

[Jaxtes]

This has been brought up time, after time, after time, but it seems like the people who are very.... passionate about AC changes can't seem to understand it. There is a reason ACs are called Advanced Classes, people!

 

But other than some PvP achievements the AC are not differentiated by the game in anyways like base class, gender or faction.

 

There were plans to make it available but the customers were against it so it is not impossible. Why do you have to be against it if it is possible. We are not asking for gender base class or faction change which must be much harder.

 

Let us have that option am sure it wont affect your playtime as much as people say.

[dbears]

At higher levels only idiots will switch from Healer to Tank without knowing stats requires are different.

 

Yes, the same idiots that neglected to read the "this is a permanent choice dialogue box" and the same idiots that are STILL asking for this even though Bioware pretty much said no several times.

[dbears]

Also, from a personal standpoint.. I don't want to see, for argument sake, a level 55 Sorcerer on my warzone team or in my operations group that hasn't the slightest clue of a proper rotation because they didn't level from 10-55 as a Sorcerer but instead did an Advanced Class change from an Assassin.

 

Again, just my personal view. But it would be very likely to happen.

[Jaxtes]

Yes, the same idiots that neglected to read the "this is a permanent choice dialogue box" and the same idiots that are STILL asking for this even though Bioware pretty much said no several times.

 

Can anyone really understand which AC is suited for you at level 10? they don't even have most of their core powers.

Just because something was said does not mean it has to remain same forever.

 

Some people cant even understand their classes at lvl 55 and they want us to make a irreversible choice at the beginning.

 

Besides character customization and dyes were not available at first. Am sure bioware can remove the permanent part from the message if they implement it.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Jaxtes

[dbears]

Can anyone really understand which AC is suited for you at level 10? they don't even have most of their core powers.

Just because something was said does not mean it has to remain same forever.

 

Some people cant even understand their classes at lvl 55 and they want us to make a irreversible choice at the beginning.

 

It tells you what roles each Advanced Class can play, what weapons they use, and you can even look at the skill trees.

 

You're telling me that you can't make a well informed decision based on that information?

 

Maybe Bioware should get rid of the Advanced Class system at level 10 and have people pick it right at the beginning at the character select screen. That way there wouldn't be any kind of excuse other than "i picked a class and didn't like it." Oh wait, that's what you're doing right now..

[Essence_of_Light]

But other than some PvP achievements the AC are not differentiated by the game in anyways like base class, gender or faction.

 

I'm sorry but that is just false. Each AC has a significantly different playstyle than the other AC of the class it is derived from. There is a reason they let you know it is permanent. Simple as that.

 

There were plans to make it available but the customers were against it so it is not impossible. Why do you have to be against it if it is possible. We are not asking for gender base class or faction change which must be much harder.

 

Just because something is possible, doesn't make it a good thing to do. It is possible for me to delete all my characters, yet I'm not going to do it just because its possible. Its also possible to stop adding content to the game entirely. But just because that is possible, doesn't mean BW is going to do it. Its possible for them to allow respec in Warzones, but they aren't going to do it just because it is possible.

 

Let us have that option am sure it wont affect your playtime as much as people say.

 

True, it may not effect my playtime, but there is a high chance it will effect my game experience and enjoyment. How, you ask? Idiots, to put it simply. There are already people in the game who have no idea how to play their AC. I've been in 55 HMs with a scoundrel DPS who did nothing but stay far away from the target and spam the basic attack. And that is only one example. If AC changes were added, it would get even worse.

 

Anyways, I'm not going to post in this thread anymore, as I don't want to help keep the flame lit. All I can say is the reasons it hasn't been added yet, and won't are obvious and have been repeated to death. Good day.

[Jaxtes]

Also, from a personal standpoint.. I don't want to see, for argument sake, a level 55 Sorcerer on my warzone team or in my operations group that hasn't the slightest clue of a proper rotation because they didn't level from 10-55 as a Sorcerer but instead did an Advanced Class change from an Assassin.

 

Again, just my personal view. But it would be very likely to happen.

 

Most DPS sorc , mara and merc at least use there top level skills in regular rotations. Are you suggesting people planned these rotations from playing from lvl 1 to 50 if that case am thinking you give too much credit to the average player.

 

Most players in my opinion learn how to seriously tank and dps by going through guides near end level, hell i couldn't even understand the guides the first time i tried to get a proper DPS rotation for my mara.

[Jaxtes]

Maybe Bioware should get rid of the Advanced Class system at level 10 and have people pick it right at the beginning at the character select screen.

 

This i would have liked too with 8 basic classes maybe 4 on each side different stories tied to each class would have been wonderful. Since it is near impossible to do that now i suggest an AC swap where it can be changed for cartel coins with a decently long cooldown so people don't keep shifting back and forth.

[Vhaegrant]

This has been brought up time, after time, after time, but it seems like the people who are very.... passionate about AC changes can't seem to understand it. There is a reason ACs are called Advanced Classes, people!

 

Probably because 'Advanced Class' sounds better in advertising speak than 'Sub-class'.

[Vhaegrant]

Yes, the same idiots that neglected to read the "this is a permanent choice dialogue box" and the same idiots that are STILL asking for this even though Bioware pretty much said no several times.

 

I still can't find these 'No' quotes. The last thing any current Dev mentioned on the subject of AC swap is on the OP and has been linked many, many times throughout this thread. I'm sure you know the one I'm talking about.

[Vhaegrant]

Also, from a personal standpoint.. I don't want to see, for argument sake, a level 55 Sorcerer on my warzone team or in my operations group that hasn't the slightest clue of a proper rotation because they didn't level from 10-55 as a Sorcerer but instead did an Advanced Class change from an Assassin.

 

Again, just my personal view. But it would be very likely to happen.

 

You actually want to have fun and progress through Warzones, Flashpoints and Operations... find a Guild or add people you know that play well to your friends list and ask them for groups in whichever activity you desire.

 

You don't level from 10-55 as a Sorcerer, you level as Corruption, Lightning or Madness (or Hybrid, one of the few that has a very good AOE hybrid for solo daily content), each spec has it's own rotations, and each comes with a learning curve.

 

Some ACs have it easier than others, but there are those specs such as Rage shared between the warrior ACs that really doesn't play significantly differently.

 

Any other issues of players not knowing their new AC are just as prevalent in players switching between specs that don't share gear. Just try tanking in your DPS levelled Powertech's gear

[branmakmuffin]

I'm sorry but that is just false. Each AC has a significantly different playstyle than the other AC of the class it is derived from. There is a reason they let you know it is permanent. Simple as that.

How often does this have to be said? It's only permanent now because that's how it works now. The point of the question//request is it being changed how it works in the future.

 

Just because something is possible, doesn't make it a good thing to do.

And just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

 

True, it may not effect my playtime, but there is a high chance it will effect my game experience and enjoyment. How, you ask? Idiots, to put it simply. There are already people in the game who have no idea how to play their AC. I've been in 55 HMs with a scoundrel DPS who did nothing but stay far away from the target and spam the basic attack. And that is only one example. If AC changes were added, it would get even worse.

If you can't handle the notion of playing with people you label "idiots," then you had best go back to replaying KOTOR.

 

Anyways, I'm not going to post in this thread anymore, as I don't want to help keep the flame lit.

If that had been true, you would not have posted at all.

[JediMasterSLC]

If you have a mara and decide you want a jug, why not just roll another toon.... this is a more leveling/alts focused game after all. They are functionally different classes that play the same for the first hour of leveling and share the same story. You think that the sharing of a main storyline with another class entitles you to be able to switch to that class? In what MMO is that a thing?

[Jaxtes]

On thing i don't understand is do the people who oppose really think that someone who has learned how one AC works are incapable of working out how another on works unless u play from lvl 11 to 55.

[Vhaegrant]

I'm sorry but that is just false. Each AC has a significantly different playstyle than the other AC of the class it is derived from. There is a reason they let you know it is permanent. Simple as that.

Some are more significant than others, but in reality there is as much difference for many of the ACs in their individual specs. Tank <-> DPS requires all the same changes in core rotation and gear that an AC swap would need.

 

Just because something is possible, doesn't make it a good thing to do. It is possible for me to delete all my characters, yet I'm not going to do it just because its possible. Its also possible to stop adding content to the game entirely. But just because that is possible, doesn't mean BW is going to do it. Its possible for them to allow respec in Warzones, but they aren't going to do it just because it is possible.

They had respec in Warzones, it caused a certain exploit in WZ's like Voidstar where a team could change from DPS in attack mode to Tank in defence mode.

 

True, it may not effect my playtime, but there is a high chance it will effect my game experience and enjoyment. How, you ask? Idiots, to put it simply. There are already people in the game who have no idea how to play their AC. I've been in 55 HMs with a scoundrel DPS who did nothing but stay far away from the target and spam the basic attack. And that is only one example. If AC changes were added, it would get even worse.

Seriously... why is it so hard for people who are adverse to playing with 'poor' players to join a guild or to add the good players they group with to their Friends list?

The issue of characters that are underequipped or players that have no idea of tactics or spec rotations is not exacerbated by opening up an AC swap feature. It is exacerbated by calling them 'Noobs', dropping out of a group after the first wipe, kicking them because they ask what the tactics are or for others to slow down. It is exacerbated by players that think the Group Finder is there solely to provide them with instant success.

 

Anyways, I'm not going to post in this thread anymore, as I don't want to help keep the flame lit. All I can say is the reasons it hasn't been added yet, and won't are obvious and have been repeated to death. Good day.

As are the reasons for why many players would like to see the functionality of an AC swap feature included. Good day

[Jaxtes]

In what MMO is that a thing?

 

Most MMO's have slightly different character progression than SWTOR. The idea was there to provide a AC swap or some sort of trial period in the beginning.

Do you really not want SWTOR to do anything different from other MMO's.

[JediMasterSLC]

Most MMO's have slightly different character progression than SWTOR. The idea was there to provide a AC swap or some sort of trial period in the beginning.

Do you really not want SWTOR to do anything different from other MMO's.

 

I want it to emulate the good aspects other games and reject the bad ones. Not jack up a good aspect. Why can't people just accept that they're different classes and call it a day.

[TUXs]

I want it to emulate the good aspects other games and reject the bad ones. Not jack up a good aspect. Why can't people just accept that they're different classes and call it a day.

 

Because they aren't different classes - Classes all have the same story (Trooper, Knight etc). We're talking about ACs. I think allowing players respec options is an amazingly GOOD aspect of any game, especially an MMO.

 

Unlike other games, MMOs are always evolving and I believe in giving players the ability to evolve with the game...especially one that relies on the traditional trinity roles. Because the playerbase is always fluctuating, you need to give players the means to be as fluid as possible to adjust to those changes. It creates a healthier game.

 

What is ONE negative of allowing this to happen? I only see a benefit to the game if they allow this.

[JediMasterSLC]

Because they aren't different classes - Classes all have the same story (Trooper, Knight etc). We're talking about ACs. I think allowing players respec options is an amazingly GOOD aspect of any game, especially an MMO.

 

Unlike other games, MMOs are always evolving and I believe in giving players the ability to evolve with the game...especially one that relies on the traditional trinity roles. Because the playerbase is always fluctuating, you need to give players the means to be as fluid as possible to adjust to those changes. It creates a healthier game.

 

What is ONE negative of allowing this to happen? I only see a benefit to the game if they allow this.

 

I don't see how sharing a story is relevant. The playstyles and abilities of a sage and a shadow are far too different to allow the switching from one to the other. Stealth melee dps/tank class to ranged healer/dps class. Yeah no. Just drop this moronic idea. Even bw isn't stupid enough to entertain it. You share your main story and some abilities with another class. Deal with it.

Edited September 11, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[TUXs]

I don't see how sharing a story is relevant. The playstyles and abilities of a sage and a shadow are far too different to allow the switching from one to the other. Stealth melee dps/tank class to ranged healer/dps class. Yeah no. Just drop this moronic idea. Even bw isn't stupid enough to entertain it. You share your main story and some abilities with another class. Deal with it.

It's relevant because every class has its own story, which means AC is not the same as "Class". AC's are minor specializations within a Class...you know, kinda like healing or tanking are different from DPS.

 

But you're right...switching from a melee Shadow to a Sage is probably far too difficult for any player to figure out. With only half of their skills being shared, they'd be bumbling around, unable to do whatever they wanted to do.

 

In fact, by that logic, maybe there should be like a 2 month lockout on swapping to an alt, because the thought that someone could swap from their melee Shadow to their ranged Sage has got to terrify you!!! Thank God you only have one toon so you never need to worry about the confusion you'd face with 2 right?

 

Swapping to different classes entirely is done with ease by most players daily. You can't pretend it's some monumentally difficult task when it's not.

[Savej]

In wow druids can go from healers to melee stealth dps using dual spec. They have a choice of actually doing anything with a spec change: ranged dps and melee tank are also on their menus (each requiring completely different gear even which is far more than shadows and sages would).

There is the worst case scenario. In what way has the Wow game suffered compared to this one? I would argue that there are no significant gameplay repercussions arising because of the existence of druids or their dramatic dual specs: people still role lots of alts on Wow and the average skill level in pve and pvp is the same or even a little better than it is here. (and the best in Wow would probably trounce the best here). I personally prefer swtor to wow but that's only because i burned out on wow after many years, not because the game has more "class integrity" (this game has less, actually, but that's another topic)

[Jazshen]

I would love to see an AC swap, but I perfectly understand that it would frustrate some players to see people take an Advanced Class at 55 that they have no experience with at all.

 

So I've suggested this before and I'll suggest it again - the ability to swap AC should be a Legacy ability, and in order to unlock this you should have both versions of the AC to level 50.. So if you have a Sith Sorcerer, for example, then to unlock the AC class swap you need either a Sith Assassin or a Jedi Shadow to 50. I like this option as it gives incentive to level another character and it ensures you know how to play both AC's fairly decently. You get what you want - an AC swap ability - and other players can be at least assured that you have at least played that class to level 50.

[Savej]

I would love to see an AC swap, but I perfectly understand that it would frustrate some players to see people take an Advanced Class at 55 that they have no experience with at all.

 

So I've suggested this before and I'll suggest it again - the ability to swap AC should be a Legacy ability, and in order to unlock this you should have both versions of the AC to level 50.. So if you have a Sith Sorcerer, for example, then to unlock the AC class swap you need either a Sith Assassin or a Jedi Shadow to 50. I like this option as it gives incentive to level another character and it ensures you know how to play both AC's fairly decently. You get what you want - an AC swap ability - and other players can be at least assured that you have at least played that class to level 50.

 

 

i don't agree that it should need to be an unlock but wouldn't argue anymore on this topic it that compromise/option made it into the game. But there's never a guarantee that the person controlling a character you're grouped with took any significant actions in the leveling process.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Savej

[Orizuru]

I think the feature is a good idea, but it needs to be handled very carefully.

 

Sith Warriors and Jedi Knights will have a few issues with armor types if they aren't already wearing adaptive armor. And all of the main classes will have issue with the secondary stats.

 

These issues aren't insurmountable, but if they aren't planned for accordingly it could create a huge QQ storm from people who didn't think the change through completely and have very poorly itemized gear as a result. I wouldn't be surprised to see Immortal Juggs in the GF queues wearing mostly medium armor because they were a Mara a few days ago. In cases where players don't have any adaptive armor and they change from a Jugg to a Mara they could end up without any equippable armor at all.

 

I would love to be able to change my Jugg to a Mara though! In my opinion the only thing better than a six foot tall Sith wielding a pink lightsaber is a six foot tall Sith wielding two pink lightsabers.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Orizuru