ETA on Advanced Class change?

[LanceCorporalDan]

only 2 available specs to switch beteween in WoW, where if you want to play all other avaialbel specs - have to go to the trainer.

 

lalalala

 

We are talking about swtor. ACs are different classes themselves. Why should someone be able to switch them at will? They are set into their specific roles for a reason

 

lalala

Edited February 11, 2014 by LanceCorporalDan

[Jeweledleah]

We are talking about swtor. Field respec.

 

lalalala

 

yes and?

 

we didn't used to have field respec at one point. that changed. why should AC remain permanent?

 

and i have brought up an example of other games becasue apparently we cannot get away from those and YOU replied to a post that mentioned them.

 

there is NO mechanical or even story reason for AC to remain permanent. its arbitrary.

[Slicka]

yes and?

 

we didn't used to have field respec at one point. that changed. why should AC remain permanent?

 

and i have brought up an example of other games becasue apparently we cannot get away from those and YOU replied to a post that mentioned them.

 

there is NO mechanical or even story reason for AC to remain permanent. its arbitrary.

 

You realize bringing up wow is no different than your field respect example? If you go back to when they had talent trees for each spec, it was no different than switching between trees in swtor. In your scenario while using wow terms, you're asking to switch from a mage to a warrior. This won't likely happen.

[Savej]

No dev said "yes we will have AC respeccing in game"...

 

Youtube video is linked a few posts up - lead devs/producers - "As it stands now, AC swapping -will- be allowed, here are some details, etc.."

Edited February 11, 2014 by Savej

[Savej]

We are talking about swtor. ACs are different classes themselves. Why should someone be able to switch them at will? They are set into their specific roles for a reason

 

lalala

 

What magical reason are you referring to? C'mon man, stop singing and spit it out? (Not many are asking to be able to switch back and forth at will although characters in the trailers for this game and the movies seemed to be doing just that on occasion).

Edited February 11, 2014 by Savej

[MuzzaFuzza]

Wouldn't mind this at all, bring it on.

[LanceCorporalDan]

yes and?

 

we didn't used to have field respec at one point. that changed. why should AC remain permanent?

 

and i have brought up an example of other games becasue apparently we cannot get away from those and YOU replied to a post that mentioned them.

 

there is NO mechanical or even story reason for AC to remain permanent. its arbitrary.

 

Because they are set roles. Why not have everyone be 55? Why not let my jug switch to merc? Why should they be permanent indeed. How about because people should have to WORK for certain things instead of having everything given to them?

[Essence_of_Light]

I strongly prefer this NOT to be a thing. Edited February 11, 2014 by Essence_of_Light

[Savej]

Because they are set roles. Why not have everyone be 55? Why not let my jug switch to merc? Why should they be permanent indeed...

 

All of those are drastic changes with few if any precedents in other serious games (other than Wow which has had DKs starting at 55 omg and something silly about zip-85 soon omg) and are not what's being asked for in this thread.

 

As for the "work" argument... I don't care about work - I've put more time into playing this game than most ppl. I have several 55 sentinels and several 55 guardians but only one that I will respec if the option pops up. If I could wipe my character to lvl 10 while keeping his valor/titles/gear/contacts/name/companions/etc.. that would be fine with me (but also silly - would my guy go through the same class quests all over? "Hi emp, didn't I fight you before?"). D&D, the mother of all games, had multi classes and dual classes and crazy stuff in 3rd ed - either of those original options would work for me also but I would get wicked powerful in short order and don't recommend the devs allow it.

 

I'm actually completely lost as to why any player is arguing to minimize options in general but this one more specifically. No one's asking to pull a brand new character out of thin air (any more than switching specs from scrapper to sawbones pulls a new character out of thin air) or for a free pass to skip content or the requirement to get gear or whatever. This isn't really about making things easier or making any one character any more powerful, it's about increasing options/variety for those that get attached to one character. I really do think it will ultimately keep more people playing longer (I have lots of 55s but only two or three have over 80% of my total played time - leveling an alt is a distraction/diversion, not the real time sink for me at least).

Edited February 11, 2014 by Savej

[LanceCorporalDan]

All of those are drastic changes with few if any precedents in other serious games (other than Wow which has had DKs starting at 55 omg and something silly about zip-85 soon omg) and are not what's being asked for in this thread.

 

As for the "work" argument... I don't care about work - I've put more time into playing this game than most ppl. I have several 55 sentinels and several 55 guardians but only one that I will respec if the option pops up. If I could wipe my character to lvl 10 while keeping his valor/titles/gear/contacts/name/companions/etc.. that would be fine with me (but also silly - would my guy go through the same class quests all over? "Hi emp, didn't I fight you before?"). D&D, the mother of all games, had multi classes and dual classes and crazy stuff in 3rd ed - either of those original options would work for me also but I would get wicked powerful in short order and don't recommend the devs allow it.

 

No but this is the string of things we are seeing here.

 

I don't see any need for it. Level a new character if you want to play that class, if one can't handle that then they can move along.

[DarkAngelRiku]

Yeah I vote for this to not happen. We already have enough bads that can't play their class at 55..let's not increase that number by doing this. You get told numerous times the class choice is permanent, and you chose at level 10. Let it go already and just accept the fact you are NOT going to get an Advanced Class change.

[Savej]

Yeah I vote for this to not happen. We already have enough bads that can't play their class at 55..let's not increase that number by doing this. You get told numerous times the class choice is permanent, and you chose at level 10. Let it go already and just accept the fact you are NOT going to get an Advanced Class change.

 

Or keep asking until a dev says that? Last time any dev was asked, the answer was different than yours. I've already got lots of alts btw.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Savej

[hadoken]

Class spec swapping in wow = ac + spec swapping here (covered this earlier tonight). VERY RELEVANT insofar as the immediate argument involves changes to game mechanics and AC/Spec-changes made long after a game's release. But by all means, keep your fingers in your ears and scream "lalalaWowClass=RiftClass=SwtorAdvancedClass".

 

Opinion, not fact. In my opinion, different ACs are different classes altogether mechanically. The role options that a Sage has are completely different from the role options a Shadow has. The Sage has more in common with a Commando than a Shadow. I don't see you advocating for anyone to be able to swap between those ACs.

[branmakmuffin]

Opinion, not fact. In my opinion, different ACs are different classes altogether mechanically.

Yet clearly they are not. The ACs share the entire set of base class skills and have one spec tree in common. To say that a Sage is as different from a Shadow as it is from a Guardian would be patently ridiculous.

 

The role options that a Sage has are completely different from the role options a Shadow has.

Yeah, completely different: by tree specs, heal, DPS and DPS vs. tank, DPS and DPS. Totally different.

 

 

The Sage has more in common with a Commando than a Shadow. I don't see you advocating for anyone to be able to swap between those ACs.

That would require changing base classes. No one is advocating for that. But nice attempted straw man anyway.

[Jadescythe]

Yet clearly they are not. The ACs share the entire set of base class skills and have one spec tree in common. To say that a Sage is as different from a Shadow as it is from a Guardian would be patently ridiculous.

 

 

Yeah, completely different: by tree specs, heal, DPS and DPS vs. tank, DPS and DPS. Totally different.

 

 

 

That would require changing base classes. No one is advocating for that. But nice attempted straw man anyway.

 

I'm not sure how much different a class can be than when the attack distance changes from 10 meters to 30 meters. At that point Shock, for instance, is completely different mechanically for a Sorc and a Sin. It's differences like that which make Madness a fail for Sins and good for Sorcs.

 

Some ACs are closer than others, but the entire basis of the Sniper class, for instance, is to use cover. Which is now entirely worthless to Operatives. ACs share storylines because it saved money. They share some abilities and a skill tree because the devs were too lazy to make them separate.

 

If you truly believe AC swapping should be in game, I don't really see how you can argue against entire class changes overall. Arsenal is just Lightning with guns. Spam Tracer Missile/Lightning Strike, use CC and KBs to keep melee away in PvP. Use Unload/Chain Lightning on CD when they proc. I mean, those two specs are as close as Rage is for Mara/Jugg.

 

My point regarding this long thread, is that everyone is arguing their opinion on what they'd like to see. Don't try and comment on what devs that don't work on the game anymore said or try and figure out what their intentions were. It comes down to one of two things:

 

- You don't want to grind as much or don't have as much time to spend leveling, so you want class changes.

- You don't care or your understanding is that the devs want to keep people playing, so you don't want class changes.

 

State your opinion and move on. You aren't going to change people's philosophy by saying you disagree.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Jadescythe

[hadoken]

Yet clearly they are not. The ACs share the entire set of base class skills and have one spec tree in common. To say that a Sage is as different from a Shadow as it is from a Guardian would be patently ridiculous.

 

Mechanically it is, whether you find it ridiculous or not. A sage has no place in melee (yes even though they still retain the default saber strikes) whereas a shadow cannot get more than 10m before they lose almost all their effectiveness. Neither of these facts has anything at all to do with the trees either - it's all in the passives they get for choosing the AC and the actives they get access to. The very things that makes them an AC.

 

You guys seem to be focusing on the base class way too much simply because the story is identical, when the ACs certainly are NOT.

[Nikica]

Allow the Advanced class Change As an option doesn't hurt anyone If you want to

u don't have to its really that simple

[Ratajack]

Allow the Advanced class Change As an option doesn't hurt anyone If you want to

u don't have to its really that simple

 

Did you not see the four separate warnings by two different NPC's that your choice was PERMANENT? Did you not acknowledge that understood that your choice was PERMANENT and could not be undone, and that you were making the choice you wanted to make when you clicked on the confirmation box?

 

If you want to play another class, you already have the option to do so. You simply have to level it.

[Darth_Wicked]

Did you not see the four separate warnings by two different NPC's that your choice was PERMANENT? Did you not acknowledge that understood that your choice was PERMANENT and could not be undone, and that you were making the choice you wanted to make when you clicked on the confirmation box?

 

If you want to play another class, you already have the option to do so. You simply have to level it.

 

420(!!!) pages later and this is pretty much the sole inescapable truth some people refuse to acknowledge. Character perks, XP boosts, double XP weekends and still, it's not enough.

 

You give them a hand and they want the whole freakin' arm.

[Slicka]

420(!!!) pages later and this is pretty much the sole inescapable truth some people refuse to acknowledge. Character perks, XP boosts, double XP weekends and still, it's not enough.

 

You give them a hand and they want the whole freakin' arm.

 

They've been telling everyone "NO!" since beta. It's remarkable as you stated that leveling up another character is too much to some of these players.

[Vhaegrant]

It's interesting to see the level of discussion hasn't really moved on much

There are those players that would like an AC swap feature and there are those that don't.

 

I don't ascribe to the seemingly old school mentality that a player needs to be punished before they can enjoy their gaming experience. 60-80 hours to get a character to max level is a considerable investment of time. Certainly a commitment that should have the option of being rewarded should you change your mind and not put back to stage one.

 

I've never advocated allowing a player to change the class of a character, the class story is a strong identifier and should be kept as separate from the other classes as possible. The class defines a characters look through appearance options (tattoos/scars), their gear and most importantly their specific companions.

 

However, the Advanced Class focuses on the underlying mechanical aspects of gameplay. It is a focus on the role the character will play and the abilities they will use in their rotation to achieve it. Many of the mechanical aspects that separate role (Tank, Heal, DPS) are as diverse in the three trees of an Advanced Class as they would be between the two Advanced Classes themselves.

All of the arguments that say you shouldn't allow AC swapping (because a character would be mis-geared, not know how to play, needing on gear they can't use at that time) are there already. Swapping from a Powertech Advanced Prototype to Shield Tech is every bit as challenging as swapping from Powertech Advanced Prototype to Mercenary Arsenal.

And yet if you are a subscriber and have spent the 200,000 for field respecialisation you can make that significant change in roles at the drop of a hat.

 

The core issue of balance is not placed in jeopardy as the character does not gain access to the core Heal/ Tank abilities at the same time but still only has one or the other.

 

In essence you allow a player access to all the functionality of their Class without imposing arbitrary restrictions on them for the sake of being able to say the game has 16 classes rather than 8.

[Halinalle]

Swapping from a Powertech Advanced Prototype to Shield Tech is every bit as challenging as swapping from Powertech Advanced Prototype to Mercenary Arsenal.

 

Change from Shadow to Sage is huge. First of all you don't use saber attacks as Sage. If you do use them, you're doing it wrong. We would have way too many level 55 Sages using their saber attacks if AC change would be allowed (like we don't already have too many level 20 Sages using Saber Strike and Double Strike).

Edited March 11, 2014 by Halinalle

[Xikks]

I fail to see how a player changing his/her AC affects anyone but that player.

I have had some tell me "because I don't want to get into a 55 HM with a tank that doesn't know how to tank" (replace tank with healer).

Well, the sad fact is I get into plenty of 55 HM with people that don't know how to play their class already, so that is pretty much a wash.

 

EQ2 has had the ability to change your class for a very long time. It also uses and Advanced Class mechanic. Paladin can switch to Shadowknight, Mystic to Defiler, Swashbuckler to Brigand. They are all two sides of the same coin, similar to SWTOR. It worked very well and the community embraced it.

[Seldan]

There is definitely a player demand for this, I see people asking for this in game often, so I imagine it's only a matter of time before it's implemented.

 

As mentioned earlier, other games such as Everquest 2 allow Advanced Class changes, and WoW now sells a character boost to level 90.

 

Stating that leveling in this game "teaches you to play your class" is a poor argument, as GSF and Space Missions allows someone to level without learning their class.

[TUXs]

Did you not see the four separate warnings by two different NPC's that your choice was PERMANENT? Did you not acknowledge that understood that your choice was PERMANENT and could not be undone, and that you were making the choice you wanted to make when you clicked on the confirmation box?

 

If you want to play another class, you already have the option to do so. You simply have to level it.

 

It's a game Rat. Nothing is permanent - look at the ability to change your race, name, look etc...that was "permanent" at one time too...it's not any longer.