ETA on Advanced Class change?

[XiamaraSimi]

With all the different ways to level up in this game (pve, pvp, space rails space) it is so ridiculously easy to level up in this game there is really no reason to "change your class."

 

If at level 30 you decide you don't like AC ones abilites, make a new character, that way you actually -know- how to play the class instead of showing up in GF, pugs, and WZ in full retread mode.

 

"Hur dur sorry we wiped guys,I dun know how to play this sin because I was a sorc 5 minutes ago, derp!"

 

We already have dps showing up pretending to be tanks and healers just to get a slot, just imagine how much worse they will be when they are even -more- clueless of what they are supposed to be doing.

[TUXs]

Well if you wish to get technical, each faction has "8 Classes"

Not according to the official Bioware links I provided. There were 4 for each faction listed.

[TUXs]

With all the different ways to level up in this game (pve, pvp, space rails space) it is so ridiculously easy to level up in this game there is really no reason to "change your class."

 

If at level 30 you decide you don't like AC ones abilites, make a new character, that way you actually -know- how to play the class instead of showing up in GF, pugs, and WZ in full retread mode.

 

"Hur dur sorry we wiped guys,I dun know how to play this sin because I was a sorc 5 minutes ago, derp!"

 

We already have dps showing up pretending to be tanks and healers just to get a slot, just imagine how much worse they will be when they are even -more- clueless of what they are supposed to be doing.

 

Right - it already happens so if you want to avoid bad players start your own group with known players or solo. The ability to change AC would have no bigger impact than me specing heals when all I've done is DPS.

[Themanthatisi]

Take a step back and look at the big picture.

 

NiM Raiders and Ranked PvPs are a small percentage of the player base. The majority of TOR players are casual players. NiM quality raiders will min/max no matter what, so denying an AC change feature will ultimately prevent nothing.

 

I imagine the largest consumers of this feature would be casual players who are bored of their current AC, or curious as to how the other AC performs. Perhaps a player may regain interest in that level 42 Guardian and change to a Sentinel. This feature has the potential to generate additional revenue and retain players.

 

Will some players FOTM swap for some perceived advantage in other aspects of the game, such as 8v8 warzones? Perhaps. If they want to provide the game with more revenue, then why not?

 

Looking at the rest of the market:

• Everquest 2 has an Advanced Class system, they allow AC changes.
  
• WoW has implemented a Level 90 character boost feature
  
• Rift - Allows soul swapping and role configurations to a ridiculous extent
  

 

Bioware should implement an AC change feature as well.

 

Great reply, I fully support AC changes.... I wont even play on REP side anymore until I can make my sentinel into guardian.

 

I play imp mainly, I have 12 toons total, i tank regularly with my jugg... So the people saying you wont learn your class if you do not level it, does not apply to myself and most likely, many other long term players that have ZERO desire to level, yet another toon. Plus, BW can make money on it....

 

Right - it already happens so if you want to avoid bad players start your own group with known players or solo. The ability to change AC would have no bigger impact than me specing heals when all I've done is DPS.

 

Amazing point!!!

 

Tux,

you are really good in your posts and I honestly think it is people like yourself that have a huge hand in why this game has improved for many of us. Keep up the great work! You know how to baffle the negative types with logic, eventually they will get it.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Themanthatisi

[Seldan]

If at level 30 you decide you don't like AC ones abilites, make a new character, that way you actually -know- how to play the class instead of showing up in GF, pugs, and WZ in full retread mode.

 

What if the player leveled through GSF or the Rails Shooter? What if they were carried through WZs and did not contribute to the team at all?

 

I understand your concern, but it has already been refuted that leveling a class predicates knowing how to play that class, so using that argument against an AC change is a weak point.

 

If the design intent of leveling through 1-55 was to enforce player quality at 55 then:

• GSF or Space Missions would not provide XP.
  
• You cannot have anyone assist you during class quests
  
• Your talent tree choice would be permanent ( want to heal at 55 - then forced to level as a healer )
  
• Higher Level players could not boost you through H2/H4s etc
  
• Voss and Corellia mobs would not have been nerfed during beta due to complaints about their damage output.
  

 

The idea that the leveling process teaches you to play your class is an illusion, and should not be a reason to deny an AC Change feature.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Seldan

[tomcn]

I'm not sure they can introduce new classes because it would require the introduction of new lvl 1-50 class stories including voice work.

 

I've seen this said before, and I will repeat what someone else responded with -- That is not a requirement, because Bioware could create a (base) class change feature available at level 50 and/or when you have completed your current class story, and start any new classes at level 50, and then create only a limited amount of story content for the new class, perhaps only a quest or two.

 

In other words, Bioware actually has a lot of flexibility in terms of how much content to create for a new class.

[Xikks]

Great replies from TUXs and Seldan. I couldn't have said any of it any better.

[Icebergy]

Looking back on this thread, those who are against this feature cannot provide a valid reason other than their own personal feelings toward it.

 

The main argument is that player skill is in question. This is a non-issue, as it's the same situation as:

 

• 
  A player leveling a Rage Juggernaut and decides to tank at 55
  

• 
  A player leveling a Concealment Operative and decides he wants to heal at 55
  

• 
  A player leveling through GSF or Space Missions
  

 

Make no mistake, there is a demand for this feature - I see people in Fleet, Flashpoints, and Warzones inquire about it often. This should be a relatively easy feature to implement, Bioware should explore it.

 

Looking back on this thread, the people in favor of class changes still haven't provided a valid reason for it.

 

My reasoning against it is that your advanced class is your class, if we were on WoW you wouldn't be asking for Blizzard to let you change your Mage into a Rogue, so you shouldn't be asking for this either.

 

Also, paying to change your class could be exploited as a form of pay to win. Which is why if they did implement it, I would give serious consideration to unsubscribing on the spot.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Icebergy

[Vandicus]

Not according to the official Bioware links I provided. There were 4 for each faction listed.

 

Essentially an argument of semantics. Functionally, ACs are very different from one another. A shadow plays nothing like a sage, powertech is melee, mercenary ranged, snipers have no healing or stealth, juggernauts and marauders are actually rather similar to one another for dps, but that's the only set. Any argument for AC swaps could just as easily be applied to class swaps in general.

[Knorlac]

Looking back on this thread, those who are against this feature cannot provide a valid reason other than their own personal feelings toward it.

 

The main argument is that player skill is in question. This is a non-issue, as it's the same situation as:

 

• 
  A player leveling a Rage Juggernaut and decides to tank at 55
  

• 
  A player leveling a Concealment Operative and decides he wants to heal at 55
  

• 
  A player leveling through GSF or Space Missions
  

 

Make no mistake, there is a demand for this feature - I see people in Fleet, Flashpoints, and Warzones inquire about it often. This should be a relatively easy feature to implement, Bioware should explore it.

 

I don't see any convincing reasons to add it either. My guess would be that the existence of this feature would probably disgruntle just about as many players as it would please.

 

My main reason for not wanting it is that it would be misused as a FOTM rolling tool and not just by progression raiders and ranked players. The amount people I see every day asking on fleet what AC and spec they should choose as if they don't have a mind of their own at least suggests this to me. And as someone who never rolled a class based on its current performance it would displease me to see even more FOTM rollers in WZs.

 

My second reason is a subjective one for sure, but I agree with those in this thread that think it to be lazy not just to reroll. The speed at which you can level in this game with 2x XP weekends and consumables is insane.

 

I still support a one time change up to level 25 or so for the people that genuinely dislike their AC.

[Seldan]

Looking back on this thread, the people in favor of class changes still haven't provided a valid reason for it.

 

My reasoning against it is that your advanced class is your class, if we were on WoW you wouldn't be asking for Blizzard to let you change your Mage into a Rogue, so you shouldn't be asking for this either.

 

Also, paying to change your class could be exploited as a form of pay to win. Which is why if they did implement it, I would give serious consideration to unsubscribing on the spot.

 

I provided a scenario above a few posts back.

 

You are arguing semantics on the the definition of advanced class vs class. I'm not going to get into a circular argument with you on this, it's been done many times in this thread.

 

Using WoW as an example really isn't going to help your point - they are currently selling Level 90 character boosts. So instead of "turning your Mage into a Rogue", you can buy a freshly minted 90 Rogue and keep your 90 Mage as well.

 

As for pay to win, when this feature is implemented I imagine it would be available by Cartel Coins and Credits, so it would not be pay to win.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Seldan

[Seldan]

I don't see any convincing reasons to add it either. My guess would be that the existence of this feature would probably disgruntle just about as many players as it would please.

 

My main reason for not wanting it is that it would be misused as a FOTM rolling tool and not just by progression raiders and ranked players. The amount people I see every day asking on fleet what AC and spec they should choose as if they don't have a mind of their own at least suggests this to me. And as someone who never rolled a class based on its current performance it would displease me to see even more FOTM rollers in WZs.

 

My second reason is a subjective one for sure, but I agree with those in this thread that think it to be lazy not just to reroll. The speed at which you can level in this game with 2x XP weekends and consumables is insane.

 

I still support a one time change up to level 25 or so for the people that genuinely dislike their AC.

 

Neither of us have any real data ( aside from our own experiences ) that would say there is a demand or a dislike for the feature. Bioware has the metrics ( abandoned characters, deleted ACs, tickets requesting to change AC, tickets suggesting the feature, etc ).

 

Having said that, I feel the developers silence on the issue speaks loudly that they are at least entertaining the idea. Eric could post in this 400+ page thread and state they have no intent to offer an AC change feature. That's fine, so be it, end of story.

 

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I do not believe the FOTM crowd is as rampant as some claim. SWTOR has a casual player base. Look at the number of NiM progression guilds and Ranked PvPers vs the entire population.

 

Based on my experiences in this and other MMOs, most casual players choose a class based on theme, aesthetics, and combat mechanics. Allowing an AC change can rekindle interest in an abandoned character, provide revenue for the game, and retain a player that would otherwise leave. Someone may dust off that level 50 Jugg they never intended to touch again, change them to a Mara, level them to 55 and find a new interest in playing that character again. That's healthy for the game!

 

Are there going to be some regstars that want to change AC for some perceived advantage in 8v8s? Of course. Why deny a feature for the entire player base due to this?

Edited March 12, 2014 by Seldan

[Lugosi]

Whoa, 427 pages. This debate will never end, it's futile. Neither side is going to sway the other.

 

IMO, I still believe they qualify as different classes even though they are the same story.

 

I still don't understand why people can't just level a different class if they want to play a different class. Sure, it won't affect my game play, but it's also not affecting anyone to leave it as it is and level a class to 55 like everyone else had to.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

In the meantime, since the thread started, the lazy ******es who want this, could of rolled and levelled an extra 9 toons to 55. Edited March 12, 2014 by ThorgrimLutgen

[Xikks]

I still don't understand why people can't just level a different class if they want to play a different class. Sure, it won't affect my game play, but it's also not affecting anyone to leave it as it is and level a class to 55 like everyone else had to.

 

Because doing the same story and companions all over again does not appeal to me. Nor does leveling the other AC via alternative methods interest me. Doing Hutta/Korriban->Dromund Kaas->Balmorra->etc over again with any more characters is not something I want to do.

 

Don't like republic characters either, tried Scoundrel since I have a Sniper, stopped after 18 levels because I lost interest in the story and I want to stab, not kick people in the nuts.

[Lugosi]

Because doing the same story and companions all over again does not appeal to me. Nor does leveling the other AC via alternative methods interest me. Doing Hutta/Korriban->Dromund Kaas->Balmorra->etc over again with any more characters is not something I want to do.

 

It doesn't necessarily appeal to me either to re-do all the starter planets. However, I did it anyway because I wanted a more classes at cap. That's usually how it works in most games. You know, actually leveling a character to raise their level.

[DuEldrvarya]

To all of the above:

 

Casual players also don't give a rat's *** about a hypothetical update where BW makes one class 20% stronger than every other class in the game, but both the pvp and pve progression peeps would be pissed as hell. And they do enough to drive down the game's market seeing as those damn completionists spend disproportionate amounts of money on this game.

[Xikks]

It doesn't necessarily appeal to me either to re-do all the starter planets. However, I did it anyway because I wanted a more classes at cap. That's usually how it works in most games. You know, actually leveling a character to raise their level.

 

So it does seem to affect people, from this view that it isn't fair since that person had to trudge through it. The ole "when I was a kid..."

Edited March 12, 2014 by Xikks

[Lugosi]

So it does seem to affect people, from this view that it isn't fair since that person had to trudge through it. The old "when I was a kid..."

 

I was simply pointing out the status quo. I can assure you if it changed my feelings wouldn't get hurt

[Khevar]

So it does seem to affect people, from this view that it isn't fair since that person had to trudge through it. The ole "when I was a kid..."

When I was a kid, we didn't unlock sprint until level 14! We had to walk everywhere. And liked it!

 

:p:p:p:p:p

[Lugosi]

When I was a kid, we didn't unlock sprint until level 14! We had to walk everywhere. And liked it!

 

:p:p:p:p:p

 

We couldn't drive until we were 25 either.

[Seldan]

I still don't understand why people can't just level a different class if they want to play a different class. Sure, it won't affect my game play, but it's also not affecting anyone to leave it as it is and level a class to 55 like everyone else had to.

 

 

I cannot speak for others, but I have a Gunslinger, Scoundrel, and Operative ( and several other classes ). I support AC changes because I believe it is overall healthy for the game to provide more options for its players.

 

To answer your question, consider:

• The player that decides they do not enjoy their level 35 Vanguard, and would like to experience the Commando AC without replaying 35 levels.
  
• Someone that has an abandoned character, e.g. a Level 50 Sentinel they have not played since 1.4 They have no desire to start again from level 1, however the option to change to a Guardian has renewed their interest in the character.
  
• One that is bored of their 55 alt, has no desire to do the same class quests, same planetary arcs, or grind GSF/KDY, but is curious in the play style of the other AC.
  

 

These are all candidates for AC Changes, the end result would be renewed/retained player interest and additional revenue for the game.

[ekimmak]

These are all candidates for AC Changes, the end result would be renewed/retained player interest and additional revenue for the game.

 

And of course, there's the peer pressure of guilds demanding that you switch to the FOTM side so that you aren't hampering their progression, or PUGs that demand you switch so you can provide your alternate classes utility role, even if you don't have the gear for it ...

 

The option to swap ACs gives people something else they can unrealistically expect you to do.

[Lugosi]

I cannot speak for others, but I have a Gunslinger, Scoundrel, and Operative ( and several other classes ). I support AC changes because I believe it is overall healthy for the game to provide more options for its players.

 

To answer your question, consider:

• The player that decides they do not enjoy their level 35 Vanguard, and would like to experience the Commando AC without replaying 35 levels.
  
• Someone that has an abandoned character, e.g. a Level 50 Sentinel they have not played since 1.4 They have no desire to start again from level 1, however the option to change to a Guardian has renewed their interest in the character.
  
• One that is bored of their 55 alt, has no desire to do the same class quests, same planetary arcs, or grind GSF/KDY, but is curious in the play style of the other AC.
  

 

These are all candidates for AC Changes, the end result would be renewed/retained player interest and additional revenue for the game.

 

You have some valid points. I suppose it would be nice if players could test the waters so to speak. I'm just not convinced letting people switch AC is the way to go. Maybe, a slight maybe, if it was a one time switch.

 

It could be "renewed/retained player interest and additional revenue", which of course is good, but you have to weigh that against how many people would have spent that extra sub time and money to level from 1 to 50. You could say that is lost revenue because they found a faster way and spent less time in the game. It's hard to say without the proper metrics.

 

It's a slippery slope, but your reasoning is pretty sound.

[Ratajack]

I only see 8 classes listed here and here.

 

Here's an excerpt from the 2nd link:

 

Please note the highlighted yellow portion - according to Bioware, each class has a UNIQUE story. I think that safely excludes "Advanced Classes" from being called "Classes".

 

Try doing a /who in fleet. Tell me how many characters over level 10 have their class listed as BOUNTY HUNTER. How many characters over level 10 have their class listed as MERCENARY or POWERTECH? I'm betting there are 0 characters over level 10 with bounty hunter as their class and many with either mercenary or powertech. This tells me that the devs see powertech and mercenary as DIFFERENT classes. If they were the same class and just a different spec, wouldn't the class be bounty hunter?