Concerns About Players Being Suspended

[TUXs]

THE ENTIRE POINT OF COLLECTIONS WAS TO ALLOW YOU TO PAY THEM FOR SOMETHING.

 

How can this not be blatantly obvious?! The same people who complain non-stop that EA will do anything for money, are now saying it can't be considered a problem that they are "cheating" EA out of money?

 

UNINTENDED. You should be forced to use the unlocks because that is what they intended. End of story.

 

I don't care if you don't like it. EA/BW won't care if you don't like it. They made a mistake allowing it to go live with this, and they are fixing that now.

 

Presumably, everyone who has a crystal that can now be duplicated, HAS paid something. Just because you think players should pay MORE, doesn't mean it was obvious to all.

[tman_ac]

Presumably, everyone who has a crystal that can now be duplicated, HAS paid something. Just because you think players should pay MORE, doesn't mean it was obvious to all.

 

Well said!

[Kilora]

Again, yesterday, if I'd have had the white crystal unlocked, I wouldn't have thought twice about duplicating it and sending 2 to my Guardian for his sabers (not that I have either the white crystal or a Guardian). I wouldn't have been trying to bypass anything, simply take advantage of the new feature they added where I am allowed, legally, to duplicate crystals.

 

Sorry, Tux. I don't quite believe it when you say that -- you're a very smart guy, and I'd be shocked if this wouldn't raise a flag in your head.

 

It certainly isn't inherently malicious -- I don't think people would've assumed "Oh yay! I can cheat BW out of money purposely!" But, wouldn't you question why you could easily circumvent the payment system the just added?

 

In any event -- we will see what happens. They have every right to call this an exploit and action anyone and everyone that used it. I would hope, at the very least, that the ENTIRE community receives an apology -- because, in the end, this WAS a foreseeable problem, that was also reported over a week ago, and ignored by BW.

[Benfynyn]

I have to wonder if this Collections system is the death knell to any form of Legacy Bank/Storage.

[Kilora]

Presumably, everyone who has a crystal that can now be duplicated, HAS paid something. Just because you think players should pay MORE, doesn't mean it was obvious to all.

 

I don't WANT players to pay more -- but, seriously? That was the entire point of the Collections window.

 

Or, do you think that if I bought the Eradicator set on one character, I should immediately have it on all of my characters for free?

 

Maybe you do think that -- and, honestly, everyone would prefer it that way. But you don't actually think that is the way the system is intended to work, do you? Hell -- they released a $18 mount that you can only have on one character, unless you pay $18 per each other toon.

 

The collections tab was actually meant to SOLVE that problem. By paying less than double -- you now have it unlocked account wide. I think it was a brilliant move on their part. They didn't have to add something in that would allow you to spend FEWER coins, but they did.

 

And, players found a way to use systems in the game to get themselves items for free. Obviously unintended.

[MaximilianPower]

Oh haha, what a failure!

 

 

If it's any consolation, I got a good, solid LOL out of that post. Some welcome comic relief in a histrionics-filled thread.

[Kilora]

Reguardless of individual feelings on people being actioned, and reasoning behind it.

 

How long do you think they'll let everyone hang with no response? I have to say, I'm a little concerned that we're creeping closer to the end of the day without any updates whatsoever.

[iamthehoyden]

I don't WANT players to pay more -- but, seriously? That was the entire point of the Collections window.

 

Or, do you think that if I bought the Eradicator set on one character, I should immediately have it on all of my characters for free?

 

Maybe you do think that -- and, honestly, everyone would prefer it that way. But you don't actually think that is the way the system is intended to work, do you? Hell -- they released a $18 mount that you can only have on one character, unless you pay $18 per each other toon.

 

The collections tab was actually meant to SOLVE that problem. By paying less than double -- you now have it unlocked account wide. I think it was a brilliant move on their part. They didn't have to add something in that would allow you to spend FEWER coins, but they did.

 

And, players found a way to use systems in the game to get themselves items for free. Obviously unintended.

Honestly, what was able to be duplicated and what wasn't and what was charged and why was not clear to me with the collections system. I didn't have the inclination to do more research than what was shown in the previews and press releases or experiement with it so I left it alone (good thing by the looks of it). I'm not a genius by any means, but I do alright in the reading and comprehending department. If it wasn't clear to me, I would be willing to bet there were others who didn't understand what was intended and what wasn't with it.

 

Give people, both the players and BW, the benefit of the doubt till we know more.

[Kilora]

Give people, both the players and BW, the benefit of the doubt till we know more.

 

I was originally attempting to.

 

Until others came to tell me, "There is no way this is an exploit, this is how it was intended to function."

 

If someone tries to say they know how the system is meant to function -- that tells me they've read the notes on the system. If they haven't -- they should immediately shut their mouths and not try to explain how it works, when they clearly dont know themselves.

 

Had these few people read the patchnotes, they would know that the entire system is intended to work like this:

 

You have an item on one character. You can delete it and make new copies for that character as you wish.

You want the item on more characters? Great! You can now pay a fraction of the price in CCs, and have that item available to all of your characters on your account!

 

It isn't difficult to understand once you've read the patchnotes. And anyone curious about how it works should've done that. Anyones lack of understanding is solely their fault. BW is at fault for allowing the exploit into the game -- yet at the same time, bugs happen. Innocent people may have been caught up in this -- hence why there is a dispute option, and no one was perma-banned.

[TUXs]

I don't WANT players to pay more -- but, seriously? That was the entire point of the Collections window.

 

Or, do you think that if I bought the Eradicator set on one character, I should immediately have it on all of my characters for free?

 

Maybe you do think that -- and, honestly, everyone would prefer it that way. But you don't actually think that is the way the system is intended to work, do you? Hell -- they released a $18 mount that you can only have on one character, unless you pay $18 per each other toon.

 

The collections tab was actually meant to SOLVE that problem. By paying less than double -- you now have it unlocked account wide. I think it was a brilliant move on their part. They didn't have to add something in that would allow you to spend FEWER coins, but they did.

 

And, players found a way to use systems in the game to get themselves items for free. Obviously unintended.

 

See, I disagree with your "for FREE" statements. Even if I duplicated 20 Eradicator sets on my toon, the only advantage I'd have is that I'd wear it for PvP and PvE and my companions would all be sporting it...and I had still already PAID for it, eliminating the thought that any of it was "FREE".

 

I guess where I really differ is that, had I used this, I would have thought "huh...that's actually a cool new feature for buyers" because I can see where this DOES promote CM sales. It DOES give me incentive to complete collections that I otherwise wouldn't.

 

I doubt many people felt they were "cheating" when duplicating items...maybe they did...I just know that when I think about this objectively, I can see where "I" too might have thought it was fine to duplicate items. My Sage has 1 sabre, my Guardian 2...had I transferred a crystal to my Guardian to use, and inadvertently unlocked that crystal, I seriously doubt I would have given it any more thought and would have duped that crystal for the 2nd sabre.

 

Or what if I was going for a unified look across my account? I mean, wasn't that an obvious byproduct of 2.1's customization? All of my toons would be dressed in white/XXX and sport white crystals...was that intentionally cheating the system or just me wanting to have a standardized "look"?

[Hyoga_]

Maybe you should read entire threads before cherry-picking one post that isn't even related to what you are complaining about.

 

I've said before -- it seems that it could be very EASY to ban people for doing this unintentionally. As far as your claim -- sorry, I don't really care because we are not discussing that. You're making a claim that has nothing to do with the vast majority of this discussion.

 

Clearly, that means there is another issue -- either the people who are claiming that are lying to you, or they DID actually exploit something, etc. BW hasn't been blanketly suspending people for absolutely no reason. There is CLEARLY evidence behind each of these for something, we just don't know if that "something" is this one specific Collections issue we are talking about, or something else.

 

Tell your friends to email the dispute address if they haven't touched anything with collections -- or even if they have. But also to not expect an answer right away, because they aren't the only people that have been suspended.

 

Buddy you are full of it since the person in question just got an e-mail with 3 days worth of subscription and they are allowed back in the game. so no there is no evidence. Bioware is just banning anybody that transfers anything. not just collection stuff..

 

 

 

Dear XXXXXX XXXXXX

 

Account Name XXXXX

Email address: XXXX@XXXXX.XXX

 

We are contacting you regarding the action that has been taken on your account.

 

We have now completed an investigation on the sanction applied. After reviewing your case, we have concluded that this sanction should be removed. We will take great care to ensure that this does not occur again in the future. As a goodwill gesture, we have added 3 days of game time to your account.

 

We regret any inconvenience caused by this issue.

[Genocidalx]

Unlike you, I don't immediately think that this was done maliciously.

 

It appears as if the person looking through the logs had too heavy of a hand -- and we've already seen a report of someone having the ban lifted, and gametime added to their account as an apology.

 

Did BW make a mistake? Absolutely. It happens.

Did they do it on purpse? Give me a break.

 

I never said it was done maliciously. It was incompetent, crooked and despicable, yes. Clearly done ignorantly which is much worse than maliciously. Everything you listed; still not okay.

[Ratajack]

It still remains the fact, that legacy gear is working as intended. So you are using the legacy feature over the Collections feature. Ergo it's not stealing. You are just using a feature that is in game for several months now.

 

You are using a feature that has been in the game for several months in order to avoid paying the associated costs to use a feature that was just added. It is stealing and exploiting to use a new feature without paying the associated costs, even if you use an older feature to enable yo to do so.

[Zantiana]

The actual bannable offence is confusing though. By some peoples logic if there is a way to pay cc for something and a way to get it free, then the free way is likely an exploit. This seems to make sense.

 

So by that method, I can pay CC and dye all my armour black piece by piece or I can just dye the chest and use unify colours ( a pre 2.1 feature, just like transferring crystals). Is that an exploit then?

[tman_ac]

You are using a feature that has been in the game for several months in order to avoid paying the associated costs to use a feature that was just added. It is stealing and exploiting to use a new feature without paying the associated costs, even if you use an older feature to enable yo to do so.

 

That's your opinion. I have a different one. Who is correct on that? There are always 2 sides of a medal.

[TUXs]

Buddy you are full of it since the person in question just got an e-mail with 3 days worth of subscription and they are allowed back in the game. so no there is no evidence. Bioware is just banning anybody that transfers anything. not just collection stuff..

 

 

 

Dear XXXXXX XXXXXX

 

Account Name XXXXX

Email address: XXXX@XXXXX.XXX

 

We are contacting you regarding the action that has been taken on your account.

 

We have now completed an investigation on the sanction applied. After reviewing your case, we have concluded that this sanction should be removed. We will take great care to ensure that this does not occur again in the future. As a goodwill gesture, we have added 3 days of game time to your account.

 

We regret any inconvenience caused by this issue.

 

Glad to see they are looking into this!

 

Also, don't be too hard on Kilora - it's just his view on this, nothing personal

[Genocidalx]

Honestly, what was able to be duplicated and what wasn't and what was charged and why was not clear to me with the collections system. I didn't have the inclination to do more research than what was shown in the previews and press releases or experiement with it so I left it alone (good thing by the looks of it). I'm not a genius by any means, but I do alright in the reading and comprehending department. If it wasn't clear to me, I would be willing to bet there were others who didn't understand what was intended and what wasn't with it.

 

Give people, both the players and BW, the benefit of the doubt till we know more.

 

Bioware demonstrated no willingness to give a benefit of the doubt, why should we return the favor? Which, I think, is the whole point of the outrage here. They just mass banned people who used their feature(s), arguably in a gray area. And, furthermore, the people who were banned still aren't even sure why they were banned, and still there is no comment from Bioware. No warning, no benefit of a doubt, just bans, whether interpreted by a live person or a script is inexcusable - more inexcusable - than any of the mentioned usages of their features, whether accidental or intentional.

[Kilora]

I never said it was done maliciously. It was incompetent, crooked and despicable, yes. Clearly done ignorantly which is much worse than maliciously. Everything you listed; still not okay.

 

Clearly you need a dictionary. If you think saying "crooked and despicable" doesn't mean maliciously -- you're an idiot. End of story.

 

But, I'm seriously done arguing here. Clearly there is no point, because I started out trying to lay out what was happening, and it has turned into people screaming the same things back and forth.

 

GUESS WHAT? Doesn't matter what any single one of us thinks. They WILL NOT give out reasons for specific people -- why? They can't. That is a privacy breach. If there is an exploit here, they will announce it. And whether or not you like it -- that means it is an exploit, and it was unintended. They have sole discretion to do whatever they please.

 

EDIT: Ontop of that -- why the hell are y'all using the term "MASS banned" people? Do you see masses of people? I've seen less than 30 people state they were banned. We have no idea what the actual number is.

 

Had they actually banned half of the players -- that would've been an obviously LARGE mistake.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Kilora

[TUXs]

You are using a feature that has been in the game for several months in order to avoid paying the associated costs to use a feature that was just added. It is stealing and exploiting to use a new feature without paying the associated costs, even if you use an older feature to enable yo to do so.

 

The price had already been paid though. To even have that crystal, it would have had to have been. Just because a new feature allows it to be duplicated, doesn't mean anything else has changed regarding Legacy gear...hell, the biggest feature of the freaking Gree event is the LEGACY bound saber!!!

[iamthehoyden]

It isn't difficult to understand once you've read the patchnotes. And anyone curious about how it works should've done that. Anyones lack of understanding is solely their fault.

I don't quite agree with that. The patch notes are certainly a useful way to learn about what has changed in game. But we're talking about an entirely new system, not a case where your sage's weaken mind now hits 1% harder. New systems need to be clearly explained in game at the point of use, because a lot of people are going to say "oo new stuff, what does it do?" and learn by playing with it. That's a natural way to learn about stuff in a game.

 

Just hold off on judging people till the facts are in.

[Genocidalx]

Clearly you need a dictionary. If you think saying "crooked and despicable" doesn't mean maliciously -- you're an idiot. End of story.

 

But, I'm seriously done arguing here. Clearly there is no point, because I started out trying to lay out what was happening, and it has turned into people screaming the same things back and forth.

 

GUESS WHAT? Doesn't matter what any single one of us thinks. They WILL NOT give out reasons for specific people -- why? They can't. That is a privacy breach. If there is an exploit here, they will announce it. And whether or not you like it -- that means it is an exploit, and it was unintended. They have sole discretion to do whatever they please.

 

Good resort to name calling. You may as well be done arguing because you're dismissed, anyway.

[Kilora]

The price had already been paid though. To even have that crystal, it would have had to have been. Just because a new feature allows it to be duplicated, doesn't mean anything else has changed regarding Legacy gear...hell, the biggest feature of the freaking Gree event is the LEGACY bound saber!!!

 

The new feature's PURPOSE was to CHARGE you to allow other characters to use the pieces.

If you cannot see that -- I hope Eric does a better job of explaining it WHEN they announce the exploit/bug.

 

The price hasn't been paid. Up until 2.1 this was not even possible. Because of a NEW system that REQUIRES you to pay for EVERYTHING -- with the crystals being the ONLY exception, because there is a loophole -- it became possible to do copy items.

 

So -- if you still don't understand, answer me this: Why are they charging for everything BUT crystals? Why are they a noteable exception?

[Kilora]

Good resort to name calling. You may as well be done arguing because you're dismissed, anyway.

 

Funny, I'll stay as long as I want.

 

And, you CLEARLY didn't understand the meaning of the word Malicious. Do I have to break out a dictionary for you?

[iamthehoyden]

Bioware demonstrated no willingness to give a benefit of the doubt, why should we return the favor? Which, I think, is the whole point of the outrage here. They just mass banned people who used their feature(s), arguably in a gray area. And, furthermore, the people who were banned still aren't even sure why they were banned, and still there is no comment from Bioware. No warning, no benefit of a doubt, just bans, whether interpreted by a live person or a script is inexcusable - more inexcusable - than any of the mentioned usages of their features, whether accidental or intentional.

I completely get the outrage, and the delay in any kind of statement is certainly increasing my irritation levels with BW. Mass bans without clear reasons are not acceptable in my view. That said, mistakes can happen and I'd like to know what's going on more definitvely before assuming everything went according to plan on BW's side of things.

Edited May 23, 2013 by iamthehoyden

[Ratajack]

As I said before, if they somehow remove that feature it is okay. As it is right now, you can chose between 2 features. And it isn't the players fault if they use legacy gear over the Collections system.

 

It is a poor argument to ban players for using a feature that is in game for quite a time.

 

The issue is using those legacy weapons to bypass the obvious design of the collections interface. The devs were VERY clear that you could create copies of items or sets once they were unlocked in your collections interface by paying the associated CC cost. Nowhere in all that hype did those same devs state that a player who possessed legacy weapons could bypass that account wide unlock cost by creating infinite copies on one character and sending those copies to alts.

 

The devs did not say those that possessed legacy weapons had a choice as to how they wanted to provide their alts with CM crystals. They said that once a given item was unlocked account wide, you could create copies for your alts and your companions. That seems pretty clear to me.