Concerns About Players Being Suspended

[SFDebris]

Remove collections: It's only causing grief,

 

I really hope this doesn't happen, I've spent an, er, embarrassing amount of money since 2.1, both real and in-game, because of the collection system, I don't want to lose all that because of a single exploit or two, I'd rather they fixed the problem.

[MarcusDenFete]

It can't have a big impact on the economy, neither can anyone make money by using this "exploit". The crystals in question are BoP and unsellable, even to vendors. The only way it affects the market is that the cartel crystals will sell in slightly less quantity.

[Jadescythe]

And again, it's not stealing if you send over the free copies from your toon. You can't steal something that is free in the first place. It would be stealing if you unlock copies on an Alt without paying the CC.

 

You obviously don't know what that word means. If my Alt hijacked my main char and just draw some bloody crystals then it would be stealing.

 

Legacy gear makes it obsolete to use the collections system according to crystals. That is what Legacy gear is meant to be. If BW didn't think about this before, it's their fault.

 

The analogy here is a buffet. You pay for yourself and you can take as much food as you want for yourself. But if you go with someone else, you have to pay for them as well, they can't just eat the food you go up and get. If you go with your whole family, maybe you can get a deal to let the whole family eat for free (legacy unlock).

 

If you didn't get the crystal from collections, then it's like going to a non-buffet restaurant. If I buy 12 hamburgers, I can distribute them freely since I paid for a specific amount, not an unlimited amount for a specific person. Hopefully that helps change your stance.

[Hyoga_]

The point of hiding it, is so other people don't find out how to do it and take advantage of it.

 

Yeah, obviously they'd be banned as well -- but banning people does BW no good. It creates anger and frustration and can easily make you lose a subscriber.

 

Huh??? What??? Im sorry that sounds like a ton of bull... Maily cause people that did not send anything from their collections are getting banned also. I know people that went to a raid that night and got a mainhand drop. they moved the stuff into a legacy weapon and sent it over. and they got banned also for sending over stuff that had nothing to do with the stupid collections.

 

Bioware is full of crap in this one. they will be losing a lot of subscribers if this is not solved soon.

[TUXs]

Just realised something , the other week I bought a few black core crystals and wanted a certain look on my sentinel , but one of them was too expensive for a power one , so i bought an endurance one , just for the time being. I took it out about 5 days ago and was going to send it via a bowcaster to an alt that wanted an endurance one .

 

So as I have been saying , nearly every single thing i do revolves around my legacy items , armor or weapons.

 

Not working as intended my a***.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

This is the other problem...

 

Along with "achievements" they also introduced the ability to custom color armor in 2.1...a feature that many players have taken advantage of!

 

However...that purple crystal that someone bought 6 months ago, no longer matched their newly clad red/white Sage, so they sent it to their Guardian who is now sporting purple armor. They more than likely never even considered the fact that they were "bypassing" anything, simply moving an item to an alt for them to use. The side effect of it unlocking that crystal for the Guardian, isn't the fault of the player - it's simply a bug that Bioware needs to fix.

 

IMO, a better "fix" right now than banning players, would be to disable duplicating until it can be resolved.

 

I'm sure there's more to these stories than we know right now, so I'm withholding any judgement until the truth is known. I've seen far too many cheaters feign innocence in the past to be duped (no pun intended) into believing everything I read.

[curtkram]

The analogy here is a buffet. You pay for yourself and you can take as much food as you want for yourself. But if you go with someone else, you have to pay for them as well, they can't just eat the food you go up and get. If you go with your whole family, maybe you can get a deal to let the whole family eat for free (legacy unlock).

 

If you didn't get the crystal from collections, then it's like going to a non-buffet restaurant. If I buy 12 hamburgers, I can distribute them freely since I paid for a specific amount, not an unlimited amount for a specific person. Hopefully that helps change your stance.

 

except, your companions get to eat free off what you paid too. and you can mail a bunch of food to 'someone else' via legacy weapons, as long as they are on your account and on your server.

 

analogies should all be banned with pretend lawyer speak.

[tman_ac]

The analogy here is a buffet. You pay for yourself and you can take as much food as you want for yourself. But if you go with someone else, you have to pay for them as well, they can't just eat the food you go up and get. If you go with your whole family, maybe you can get a deal to let the whole family eat for free (legacy unlock).

 

If you didn't get the crystal from collections, then it's like going to a non-buffet restaurant. If I buy 12 hamburgers, I can distribute them freely since I paid for a specific amount, not an unlimited amount for a specific person. Hopefully that helps change your stance.

 

I always like when people are comparing games to RL issues.

 

It's not like BW has to pay for more "crystals" when you send them over to your other toons. While I agree that it would harm a restaurant if you just supply your food to another one in your family without paying, there is no damage made to BW. BW doesn't need to buy more capacities, more servers, more staff or whatever to "deliver" these crystals.

 

If it wasn't possible to send over the crystals with legacy gear, the players just wouldn't care. So it's either: Send them over to all your alts with legacy gear, or if this is not possible, just don't care about your alts and move on. Players who really want that unlock will buy it. Point.

[Ratajack]

And again, it's not stealing if you send over the free copies from your toon. You can't steal something that is free in the first place. It would be stealing if you unlock copies on an Alt without paying the CC.

 

You obviously don't know what that word means. If my Alt hijacked my main char and just draw some bloody crystals then it would be stealing.

 

Legacy gear makes it obsolete to use the collections system according to crystals. That is what Legacy gear is meant to be. If BW didn't think about this before, it's their fault.

 

You can purchase the collections unlock for CC's. EVERY copy made from the collections interface is BOUND to the character who created the copy. If my warrior has the Revan's set in his collection, he can create copies for his companions, but CANNOT create a copy to send to my assassin. If I want my assassin to have Revan's gear, I have to purchase the account wide unlock. This is the way the collections interface was designed to work.

 

By using legacy weapons to avoid having to pay the CC's for the account wide unlock on crystals, you are stealing and exploiting, as this is obviously not the way the collections interface was intended to work. If it had been intended to work this way, the copies created would have been made BOL and not BOP.

[tman_ac]

By using legacy weapons to avoid having to pay the CC's for the account wide unlock on crystals, you are stealing and exploiting, as this is obviously not the way the collections interface was intended to work. If it had been intended to work this way, the copies created would have been made BOL and not BOP.

 

It still remains the fact, that legacy gear is working as intended. So you are using the legacy feature over the Collections feature. Ergo it's not stealing. You are just using a feature that is in game for several months now.

[Jadescythe]

I always like when people are comparing games to RL issues.

 

It's not like BW has to pay for more "crystals" when you send them over to your other toons. While I agree that it would harm a restaurant if you just supply your food to another one in your family without paying, there is no damage made to BW. BW doesn't need to buy more capacities, more servers, more staff or whatever to "deliver" these crystals.

 

If it wasn't possible to send over the crystals with legacy gear, the players just wouldn't care. So it's either: Send them over to all your alts with legacy gear, or if this is not possible, just don't care about your alts and move on. Players who really want that unlock will buy it. Point.

 

It does, however, cost BW money when the legacy unlock costs more than the character unlock. It's an option, you chose to ignore it. As I said before, they should have just only offered the legacy unlock and avoided this whole situation. It doesn't change the fact that you are paying less for your character unlock and getting it for your whole legacy via legacy gear as opposed to finding, crafting, or buying a crystal and sending the only copy of that crystal through legacy gear to an alt and no longer having it on the original toon.

[TUXs]

The analogy here is a buffet. You pay for yourself and you can take as much food as you want for yourself. But if you go with someone else, you have to pay for them as well, they can't just eat the food you go up and get. If you go with your whole family, maybe you can get a deal to let the whole family eat for free (legacy unlock).

 

If you didn't get the crystal from collections, then it's like going to a non-buffet restaurant. If I buy 12 hamburgers, I can distribute them freely since I paid for a specific amount, not an unlimited amount for a specific person. Hopefully that helps change your stance.

 

A good analogy, but a bit misleading...

 

Buffets are very clear in saying "per person". There was no prior disclaimer with this one and, to hold true to your analogy, it would be more like a buffet allowing anyone you're with to eat, but your table is only allowed ONE Legacy plate. As long as only one person was eating at a time, the plate could be shared between family members. Then, one day you all go there for dinner, instead of one plate, they hand you a pile of them and tell you you can get more any time you wish, but the second you transfer a new plate to another member, they call the police on you and lock you out of the restaurant for a week.

 

It's confusing. I'm sure many people did nothing they didn't feel was legit, as it's been allowed for months.

[BadOrb]

This is the other problem...

 

Along with "achievements" they also introduced the ability to custom color armor in 2.1...a feature that many players have taken advantage of!

 

However...that purple crystal that someone bought 6 months ago, no longer matched their newly clad red/white Sage, so they sent it to their Guardian who is now sporting purple armor. They more than likely never even considered the fact that they were "bypassing" anything, simply moving an item to an alt for them to use. The side effect of it unlocking that crystal for the Guardian, isn't the fault of the player - it's simply a bug that Bioware needs to fix.

 

IMO, a better "fix" right now than banning players, would be to disable duplicating until it can be resolved.

 

I'm sure there's more to these stories than we know right now, so I'm withholding any judgement until the truth is known. I've seen far too many cheaters feign innocence in the past to be duped (no pun intended) into believing everything I read.

 

That's what I was trying to get at , you described it perfectly. I might have been banned for doing something that I have been planning on doing and will do again , in the case I explained , I just didn't get around to sending that endurance crystal 5 days ago , if I had I might have got banned.

 

Yes they need to alter this new collections system , linked to legacy items. I had only just scratched the surface of what I was going to do with multiple crystals and armor , just because iv'e been too busy with dailys , weeklys and end-game.

 

Is it just with crystals ? I am only asking because I won a greed rolled BH armor piece the other week , took the mods out put them in a legacy piece and sent it too my alt who could use those mods. Phew let's hope they can fix this as it does seem a bit of a mess ATM.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

[Kilora]

Huh??? What??? Im sorry that sounds like a ton of bull... Maily cause people that did not send anything from their collections are getting banned also. I know people that went to a raid that night and got a mainhand drop. they moved the stuff into a legacy weapon and sent it over. and they got banned also for sending over stuff that had nothing to do with the stupid collections.

 

Bioware is full of crap in this one. they will be losing a lot of subscribers if this is not solved soon.

 

Maybe you should read entire threads before cherry-picking one post that isn't even related to what you are complaining about.

 

I've said before -- it seems that it could be very EASY to ban people for doing this unintentionally. As far as your claim -- sorry, I don't really care because we are not discussing that. You're making a claim that has nothing to do with the vast majority of this discussion.

 

Clearly, that means there is another issue -- either the people who are claiming that are lying to you, or they DID actually exploit something, etc. BW hasn't been blanketly suspending people for absolutely no reason. There is CLEARLY evidence behind each of these for something, we just don't know if that "something" is this one specific Collections issue we are talking about, or something else.

 

Tell your friends to email the dispute address if they haven't touched anything with collections -- or even if they have. But also to not expect an answer right away, because they aren't the only people that have been suspended.

[Jadescythe]

A good analogy, but a bit misleading...

 

Buffets are very clear in saying "per person". There was no prior disclaimer with this one and, to hold true to your analogy, it would be more like a buffet allowing anyone you're with to eat, but your table is only allowed ONE Legacy plate. As long as only one person was eating at a time, the plate could be shared between family members. Then, one day you all go there for dinner, instead of one plate, they hand you a pile of them and tell you you can get more any time you wish, but the second you transfer a new plate to another member, they call the police on you and lock you out of the restaurant for a week.

 

It's confusing. I'm sure many people did nothing they didn't feel was legit, as it's been allowed for months.

 

I agree somewhat in principle. If you see both an individual character unlock and a legacy unlock option, you should probably ask yourself if its ok to pass this through legacy. Knowing people are used to doing this, I agree that a warning may be a more appropriate action, but creating free crystals and sending them is a bit different than sending one crystal you had that you no longer get to keep through legacy gear.

[Kilora]

It still remains the fact, that legacy gear is working as intended. So you are using the legacy feature over the Collections feature. Ergo it's not stealing. You are just using a feature that is in game for several months now.

 

I'm sorry, but are you blind?!

 

You are using TWO features in conjuction with eachother to do something NOT intended.

 

IF they intended you to be able to get around paying the CC to unlock crystals -- why on earth would they charge you for those, and for everything else?!

[Kilora]

A good analogy, but a bit misleading...

 

Buffets are very clear in saying "per person". There was no prior disclaimer with this one and, to hold true to your analogy, it would be more like a buffet allowing anyone you're with to eat, but your table is only allowed ONE Legacy plate. As long as only one person was eating at a time, the plate could be shared between family members. Then, one day you all go there for dinner, instead of one plate, they hand you a pile of them and tell you you can get more any time you wish, but the second you transfer a new plate to another member, they call the police on you and lock you out of the restaurant for a week.

 

It's confusing. I'm sure many people did nothing they didn't feel was legit, as it's been allowed for months.

 

That is exactly what I've been trying to get across to people.

 

Being able to send the crystal itself SHOULDN'T be a problem. It is only a problem right now because of the way they implemented the Collections system.

 

However. COPYING the crystals and giving one to each of your alts -- THAT is a problem, was completely unintended, and is a way to get around having to pay CCs.

 

 

It seems that some people were suspended for good reason -- they made 5+ copies or whatever, and sent them to characters instead of paying for the unlock.

 

It also seems that some people were probably suspended for sending an original copy to another character -- without making a single copy at any point in time.

[Jeweledleah]

well, a friend of mine got suspension lifted so I tend to think that they overdone it with blanket suspensions, just going for anyone even remotely sorta suspicious.

 

I'm sure some people did exploit something, but far from EVERYONE who got suspended.

[curtkram]

BW hasn't been blanketly suspending people for absolutely no reason.

 

i think we should keep in mind there is a possibility this is the case. i don't mean to say they're doing it intentionally, just that when the dust settles we may find bioware suspended a lot of people because there was a false flag on a script or some stupid mistake that caused a lot of people who did nothing wrong to get suspended.

[tman_ac]

I'm sorry, but are you blind?!

 

You are using TWO features in conjuction with eachother to do something NOT intended.

 

IF they intended you to be able to get around paying the CC to unlock crystals -- why on earth would they charge you for those, and for everything else?!

 

Maybe because for the guys who DOESN'T have a legacy weapon? Why should I be forced to use the unlocks if I can make use of another feature, the legacy weapons?

 

That's what happens when you can chose between 2 features. Maybe you are blind?

[Kilora]

Maybe because for the guys who DOESN'T have a legacy weapon? Why should I be forced to use the unlocks if I can make use of another feature, the legacy weapons?

 

That's what happens when you can chose between 2 features. Maybe you are blind?

 

THE ENTIRE POINT OF COLLECTIONS WAS TO ALLOW YOU TO PAY THEM FOR SOMETHING.

 

How can this not be blatantly obvious?! The same people who complain non-stop that EA will do anything for money, are now saying it can't be considered a problem that they are "cheating" EA out of money?

 

UNINTENDED. You should be forced to use the unlocks because that is what they intended. End of story.

 

I don't care if you don't like it. EA/BW won't care if you don't like it. They made a mistake allowing it to go live with this, and they are fixing that now.

[TUXs]

I agree somewhat in principle. If you see both an individual character unlock and a legacy unlock option, you should probably ask yourself if its ok to pass this through legacy. Knowing people are used to doing this, I agree that a warning may be a more appropriate action, but creating free crystals and sending them is a bit different than sending one crystal you had that you no longer get to keep through legacy gear.

 

Well, sure...now I guess I'd ask that. Yesterday, the thought would have NEVER crossed my mind. If my main wanted the +41 Endurance crystal from my Sage, I'd have sent it without a second though.

[tman_ac]

THE ENTIRE POINT OF COLLECTIONS WAS TO ALLOW YOU TO PAY THEM FOR SOMETHING.

 

How can this not be blatantly obvious?! The same people who complain non-stop that EA will do anything for money, are now saying it can't be considered a problem that they are "cheating" EA out of money?

 

UNINTENDED. You should be forced to use the unlocks because that is what they intended. End of story.

 

I don't care if you don't like it. EA/BW won't care if you don't like it. They made a mistake allowing it to go live with this, and they are fixing that now.

 

As I said before, if they somehow remove that feature it is okay. As it is right now, you can chose between 2 features. And it isn't the players fault if they use legacy gear over the Collections system.

 

It is a poor argument to ban players for using a feature that is in game for quite a time.

[TUXs]

That is exactly what I've been trying to get across to people.

 

Being able to send the crystal itself SHOULDN'T be a problem. It is only a problem right now because of the way they implemented the Collections system.

 

However. COPYING the crystals and giving one to each of your alts -- THAT is a problem, was completely unintended, and is a way to get around having to pay CCs.

 

 

It seems that some people were suspended for good reason -- they made 5+ copies or whatever, and sent them to characters instead of paying for the unlock.

 

It also seems that some people were probably suspended for sending an original copy to another character -- without making a single copy at any point in time.

Again, yesterday, if I'd have had the white crystal unlocked, I wouldn't have thought twice about duplicating it and sending 2 to my Guardian for his sabers (not that I have either the white crystal or a Guardian). I wouldn't have been trying to bypass anything, simply take advantage of the new feature they added where I am allowed, legally, to duplicate crystals.

[Kilora]

i think we should keep in mind there is a possibility this is the case. i don't mean to say they're doing it intentionally, just that when the dust settles we may find bioware suspended a lot of people because there was a false flag on a script or some stupid mistake that caused a lot of people who did nothing wrong to get suspended.

 

But, that agrees with what I stated.

 

I'm saying they didn't ban people "for absolutely no reason."

 

If a script flagged them, clearly there was a reason. Whether or not the reason is actually valid is another story -- and I've even said quite a few times that I could easily see innocent people being flagged for this. They should've hand-reviewed each case before handing out actions on accounts.

 

Since we've already seen one person say their ban was lifted -- my assumption is that a flag was raised, and because so many flags were raised -- they banned before checking. Common practice among any company when dealing with a system + RL$. If the bank ATM was handing out $100s instead of $20s, they would shut it down immediately, and put a hold on the accounts that were able to withdraw money within the last X amount of days. And then, they would investigate it.

 

Although, in the bank example -- they would also be much more likely to openly explain the issue to people. And, BW can't exaclty "shut down" the entire game -- and hotfixing it may be what they are working on, but that definitely takes more than a day for an issue this large.

[chuuuuucky]

THE ENTIRE POINT OF COLLECTIONS WAS TO ALLOW YOU TO PAY THEM FOR SOMETHING.

 

How can this not be blatantly obvious?! The same people who complain non-stop that EA will do anything for money, are now saying it can't be considered a problem that they are "cheating" EA out of money?

 

UNINTENDED. You should be forced to use the unlocks because that is what they intended. End of story.

 

I don't care if you don't like it. EA/BW won't care if you don't like it. They made a mistake allowing it to go live with this, and they are fixing that now.

 

The sad thing is the moment we read your post we realize that they charge us for something they could very well offered us for ingame credits or even for free.

This is the sadest part for me in this discussion.