Concerns About Players Being Suspended

[Kilora]

I don't quite agree with that. The patch notes are certainly a useful way to learn about what has changed in game. But we're talking about an entirely new system, not a case where your sage's weaken mind now hits 1% harder. New systems need to be clearly explained in game at the point of use, because a lot of people are going to say "oo new stuff, what does it do?" and learn by playing with it. That's a natural way to learn about stuff in a game.

 

Just hold off on judging people till the facts are in.

 

As I said in almost every post I've written -- I'm not judging people.

 

I'm explaining why I think it is an obvious exploit. I haven't seen anyone here say that they took advantage of the exploit that I described.

 

I've also said MULTIPLE times that "innocent people could've easily been caught up in this." And that BW shouldn't've let this problem be released.

 

But, I was then attacked because I view the BUG as an exploit. Which I don't even consider an opinion -- why? I received a FORUM WARNING for speaking about an EXPLOIT -- and the post in question? Was explaining how you could bypass the CC fee.

[tman_ac]

The issue is using those legacy weapons to bypass the obvious design of the collections interface. The devs were VERY clear that you could create copies of items or sets once they were unlocked in your collections interface by paying the associated CC cost. Nowhere in all that hype did those same devs state that a player who possessed legacy weapons could bypass that account wide unlock cost by creating infinite copies on one character and sending those copies to alts.

 

The devs did not say those that possessed legacy weapons had a choice as to how they wanted to provide their alts with CM crystals. They said that once a given item was unlocked account wide, you could create copies for your alts and your companions. That seems pretty clear to me.

 

But they neither said it is not allowed to use legacy weapons. It could be working as intended as sending them over with legacy gear is another credit sink. Either way, the mistake is 100% up to BW, not the players who have the choice between 2 available features.

Edited May 23, 2013 by tman_ac

[TUXs]

The new feature's PURPOSE was to CHARGE you to allow other characters to use the pieces.

If you cannot see that -- I hope Eric does a better job of explaining it WHEN they announce the exploit/bug.

 

The price hasn't been paid. Up until 2.1 this was not even possible. Because of a NEW system that REQUIRES you to pay for EVERYTHING -- with the crystals being the ONLY exception, because there is a loophole -- it became possible to do copy items.

 

So -- if you still don't understand, answer me this: Why are they charging for everything BUT crystals? Why are they a noteable exception?

Having never used the new system, I guess I'm not in a position to tell you what I thought it should/should not do.

 

As for why I feel I could be allowed to do this - simple...2.1 was all about customization. The new "feature" was basically a reward to Cartel Market purchasers and new incentive to buy full sets. Crystals are singular items that can also be found in-game in everything from FPs to Ops...the armor can't be.

[Ratajack]

See, I disagree with your "for FREE" statements. Even if I duplicated 20 Eradicator sets on my toon, the only advantage I'd have is that I'd wear it for PvP and PvE and my companions would all be sporting it...and I had still already PAID for it, eliminating the thought that any of it was "FREE".

 

I guess where I really differ is that, had I used this, I would have thought "huh...that's actually a cool new feature for buyers" because I can see where this DOES promote CM sales. It DOES give me incentive to complete collections that I otherwise wouldn't.

 

I doubt many people felt they were "cheating" when duplicating items...maybe they did...I just know that when I think about this objectively, I can see where "I" too might have thought it was fine to duplicate items. My Sage has 1 sabre, my Guardian 2...had I transferred a crystal to my Guardian to use, and inadvertently unlocked that crystal, I seriously doubt I would have given it any more thought and would have duped that crystal for the 2nd sabre.

 

Or what if I was going for a unified look across my account? I mean, wasn't that an obvious byproduct of 2.1's customization? All of my toons would be dressed in white/XXX and sport white crystals...was that intentionally cheating the system or just me wanting to have a standardized "look"?

 

Unless you pay for the account wide unlock, you paid for ONE set of armor, not a set for each and every character and companion you have. As for the white crystals on all your characters, that would depend on whether you paid for the account wide unlock or simply tried to exploit and cheat the system.

[tman_ac]

According to this hole mess, I really wonder if I am allowed to do the following:

 

My main character is a sentinel. I bought 2 white-black expertise crystals and 2 white hawkeye crystals. Now, when I decide to have one of each crystal on my Jedi Sage, am I allowed to duplicate the missing 2 ones on my sentinel, as I still own one of the original ones on that char?

 

I mean, I send over 2 original ones and then just duplicate 2 on my sentinel. Should be allowed, don't you think?

 

You see, all that system is a mess where players doesn't know what is allowed and what is not. And keeping quiet about this is the worst BW is actually doing.

[Kilora]

In any event -- we SERIOUSLY need some insight from BioWare about this.

 

I hope they realize that, the longer they leave the community in the dark about this, the more upset people are going to get on every side of this.

 

Eric -- any chance we could get an update, even if to just say "We may have found the problem -- but we are still working on it, we're getting closer to a fix, etc."

 

I just think this deserves more communication than past issues.

[Ratajack]

The actual bannable offence is confusing though. By some peoples logic if there is a way to pay cc for something and a way to get it free, then the free way is likely an exploit. This seems to make sense.

 

So by that method, I can pay CC and dye all my armour black piece by piece or I can just dye the chest and use unify colours ( a pre 2.1 feature, just like transferring crystals). Is that an exploit then?

 

If you were F2P and did not have the unify colors unlocked and used a loophole to dye your chest and unify the rest of your outfit in order to avoid buying the unify colors outlook, that would be an exploit.

[iamthehoyden]

As I said in almost every post I've written -- I'm not judging people.

 

I'm explaining why I think it is an obvious exploit. I haven't seen anyone here say that they took advantage of the exploit that I described.

 

I've also said MULTIPLE times that "innocent people could've easily been caught up in this." And that BW shouldn't've let this problem be released.

 

But, I was then attacked because I view the BUG as an exploit. Which I don't even consider an opinion -- why? I received a FORUM WARNING for speaking about an EXPLOIT -- and the post in question? Was explaining how you could bypass the CC fee.

I see where you're coming from. You certainly have an argument on what is considered an exploit by BW, although I think what may have people more upset is the idea that they maliciously tried to cheat when, in reality, a poorly communicated system may have resulted in unintentional exploits. At any rate, just be aware that the new system's purpose and functionality was not clear to everyone on release.

[Benfynyn]

According to this hole mess, I really wonder if I am allowed to do the following:

 

My main character is a sentinel. I bought 2 white-black expertise crystals and 2 white hawkeye crystals. Now, when I decide to have one of each crystal on my Jedi Sage, am I allowed to duplicate the missing 2 ones on my sentinel, as I still own one of the original ones on that char?

 

I mean, I send over 2 original ones and then just duplicate 2 on my sentinel. Should be allowed, don't you think?

 

You see, all that system is a mess where players doesn't know what is allowed and what is not. And keeping quiet about this is the worst BW is actually doing.

 

I'll go one further. If you send an original over your sage can you then duplicate one there, keep the duplicate, then send the original on to another alt?

[Kilora]

According to this hole mess, I really wonder if I am allowed to do the following:

 

My main character is a sentinel. I bought 2 white-black expertise crystals and 2 white hawkeye crystals. Now, when I decide to have one of each crystal on my Jedi Sage, am I allowed to duplicate the missing 2 ones on my sentinel, as I still own one of the original ones on that char?

 

I mean, I send over 2 original ones and then just duplicate 2 on my sentinel. Should be allowed, don't you think?

 

You see, all that system is a mess where players doesn't know what is allowed and what is not. And keeping quiet about this is the worst BW is actually doing.

 

I would recommend not transfering any CM crystals at all, until this is resolved. Even transferring the original crystal will "unlock" it on both of your characters. Best to wait for the moment, and hope we get a response soon. I don't want to see more people suspended over this becasue of lack of information.

[Ratajack]

Buddy you are full of it since the person in question just got an e-mail with 3 days worth of subscription and they are allowed back in the game. so no there is no evidence. Bioware is just banning anybody that transfers anything. not just collection stuff..

 

 

 

Dear XXXXXX XXXXXX

 

Account Name XXXXX

Email address: XXXX@XXXXX.XXX

 

We are contacting you regarding the action that has been taken on your account.

 

We have now completed an investigation on the sanction applied. After reviewing your case, we have concluded that this sanction should be removed. We will take great care to ensure that this does not occur again in the future. As a goodwill gesture, we have added 3 days of game time to your account.

 

We regret any inconvenience caused by this issue.

 

It's a shame that we do not know what this particular player did. Was he a player who simply unlocked the crystal in his collection and created a single copy for his character's off hand, or did he create copies for all of his character's and companions and send them via legacy weapons to avoid the CC cost for the account wide unlock? That e-mail gives no indication, and if that particular poster has stated exactly what he did, I must have missed it.

[tman_ac]

I would recommend not transfering any CM crystals at all, until this is resolved. Even transferring the original crystal will "unlock" it on both of your characters. Best to wait for the moment, and hope we get a response soon. I don't want to see more people suspended over this becasue of lack of information.

 

And that's just crap. Before that collections system I sent over crystals all the time. Now I can't play as I used to play cause I am in danger of getting banned for a feature I use for months?

 

Weird world...

[Kilora]

And that's just crap. Before that collections system I sent over crystals all the time. Now I can't play as I used to play cause I am in danger of getting banned for a feature I use for months?

 

Weird world...

 

I'm not saying that is how it should work -- just recommending that you hold off for a few days, until BW has time to sort this garbage out.

 

I highly highly doubt they will consider that to be unintended or an exploit -- but at the moment, it may have an unintended effect, and that may flag your account. Better safe than sorry!

[TUXs]

I'm not saying that is how it should work -- just recommending that you hold off for a few days, until BW has time to sort this garbage out.

 

I highly highly doubt they will consider that to be unintended or an exploit -- but at the moment, it may have an unintended effect, and that may flag your account. Better safe than sorry!

 

I agree with this. Kilora and I are on different sides of this debate, but I think this is solid advice...unless you're going away for the weekend

[Ratajack]

The price had already been paid though. To even have that crystal, it would have had to have been. Just because a new feature allows it to be duplicated, doesn't mean anything else has changed regarding Legacy gear...hell, the biggest feature of the freaking Gree event is the LEGACY bound saber!!!

 

The price had been paid for ONE crystal, not one for each and every character and alt. They added the ability to give one to each and every alt but added an additional cost to do so. Some people chose to exploit and cheat in an attempt to avoid having to pay that additional cost and are now up in arms because they got caught.

[Ratajack]

I don't quite agree with that. The patch notes are certainly a useful way to learn about what has changed in game. But we're talking about an entirely new system, not a case where your sage's weaken mind now hits 1% harder. New systems need to be clearly explained in game at the point of use, because a lot of people are going to say "oo new stuff, what does it do?" and learn by playing with it. That's a natural way to learn about stuff in a game.

 

Just hold off on judging people till the facts are in.

 

Here are the patch notes:

 

New Feature Collections is a new feature which provides a one–stop interface accessible from the Inventory Window or Cartel Market:

 

Collections will track most items available from the Cartel Market, Packs (Cartel, Contraband, and beyond!), Cartel Reputation, and even Friends of Star Wars: The Old Republic, Pre–order, Collectors Edition, live fan events and more.

 

Rather than being limited to one character or Legacy, items tracked with Collections share across the entire account – all characters, all servers.

 

Once an item or gear set has been acquired on a single character, the player can use Cartel Coins to unlock that item or gear set for all characters on the account, with the exception of level 15, 31, and 43 Adaptable gear and Cartel Reputation items.

 

Notice the bolded part? That makes it VERY clear to me. Once an item or gear set has been acquired on a single character, the player can use Cartel Coins to unlock that item or gear set for all characters on the account

 

It is very clear that in order to unlock that item for all characters on the account, it requires cartel coins.

[Genocidalx]

Here are the patch notes:

 

New Feature Collections is a new feature which provides a one–stop interface accessible from the Inventory Window or Cartel Market:

 

Collections will track most items available from the Cartel Market, Packs (Cartel, Contraband, and beyond!), Cartel Reputation, and even Friends of Star Wars: The Old Republic, Pre–order, Collectors Edition, live fan events and more.

 

Rather than being limited to one character or Legacy, items tracked with Collections share across the entire account – all characters, all servers.

 

Once an item or gear set has been acquired on a single character, the player can use Cartel Coins to unlock that item or gear set for all characters on the account, with the exception of level 15, 31, and 43 Adaptable gear and Cartel Reputation items.

 

Notice the bolded part? That makes it VERY clear to me. Once an item or gear set has been acquired on a single character, the player can use Cartel Coins to unlock that item or gear set for all characters on the account

 

It is very clear that in order to unlock that item for all characters on the account, it requires cartel coins.

 

The operative word is "can" not "has to" or "is required." It could just assume players won't have BoL gear for the common way of moving bound things.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Genocidalx

[iamthehoyden]

Here are the patch notes:

 

New Feature Collections is a new feature which provides a one–stop interface accessible from the Inventory Window or Cartel Market:

 

Collections will track most items available from the Cartel Market, Packs (Cartel, Contraband, and beyond!), Cartel Reputation, and even Friends of Star Wars: The Old Republic, Pre–order, Collectors Edition, live fan events and more.

 

Rather than being limited to one character or Legacy, items tracked with Collections share across the entire account – all characters, all servers.

 

Once an item or gear set has been acquired on a single character, the player can use Cartel Coins to unlock that item or gear set for all characters on the account, with the exception of level 15, 31, and 43 Adaptable gear and Cartel Reputation items.

 

Notice the bolded part? That makes it VERY clear to me. Once an item or gear set has been acquired on a single character, the player can use Cartel Coins to unlock that item or gear set for all characters on the account

 

It is very clear that in order to unlock that item for all characters on the account, it requires cartel coins.

There's no need to be so aggressive about this, you know. What I'm saying is that the system was not clearly explained at point of use in the game. The patch notes are useful, but reading them should not be required for using a new system. Besides that, in that patch note there is no explanation of the duplication feature on a single character, which is where I wasn't clear on how it was to function. Just hold off on insisting everyone's a criminal until there's some clear information on what's going on.

[Ratajack]

But they neither said it is not allowed to use legacy weapons. It could be working as intended as sending them over with legacy gear is another credit sink. Either way, the mistake is 100% up to BW, not the players who have the choice between 2 available features.

 

First, I use the term "you" in a generic and not specific sense, lest someone take offense and feel I'm accusing them personally.

 

Really? Come on, be serious, grow up and accept a little responsibility.

 

The devs say "here is this nice new feature and here is how we intend it to work. You must meet certain requirements, in this case pay a certain amount of CC's, in order to obtain the benefits." They make it very clear that in order to obtain those benefits, the cost must be paid.

 

You find a loophole, that allows you to bypass those costs, and want to claim your ban is their fault because they never said you couldn't use a loophole to avoid the costs?

[BadOrb]

First, I use the term "you" in a generic and not specific sense, lest someone take offense and feel I'm accusing them personally.

 

Really? Come on, be serious, grow up and accept a little responsibility.

 

The devs say "here is this nice new feature and here is how we intend it to work. You must meet certain requirements, in this case pay a certain amount of CC's, in order to obtain the benefits." They make it very clear that in order to obtain those benefits, the cost must be paid.

 

You find a loophole, that allows you to bypass those costs, and want to claim your ban is their fault because they never said you couldn't use a loophole to avoid the costs?

 

Some people , didn't read about the new system and sent a crystal to an alt via a legacy item and got banned. So you think it's fair that in that situation that they got banned , just for doing the same thing they have done for months ? Nope it isn't fair.

 

I know have to wait for BioWare to let me know if I can play their game in the same way I have always played it. I can see them changing the legacy items now , just for the sake of this new system.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

[Ratajack]

The operative word is "can" not "has to" or "is required." It could just assume players won't have BoL gear for the common way of moving bound things.

 

The context made it very clear to me that if you wanted to copy the item for other characters you had to purchase the unlock via CC's and that the use of the specific word "can" was simply stating that you were not forced to purchase the unlock if you did not want copies of the item for other characters.

[uaintjak]

Maybe Bioware just "misspoke" again.

[Jaing]

Took 24 hours, but the ban on my account was lifted. Same e-mail as others have mentioned.

 

I was unable to post while my account was banned. Those who I play with that were banned were also unable to post. I'm curious how some banned accounts were able to post at all. Also curious about the criteria behind the bans.

 

Hopefully the information coming out tomorrow will reveal all.

[leehambly]

Too much here to read everything - but suffice to say, I'm one of those who had access removed - and I can confirm that I exploited nothing.

 

I realised that I could use the existing ownership of some crystals on some of my characters to create duplicates of those crystals, as intended.

Since I no longer needed to save my still UNBOUND CM crystals for future companions that I haven't actually got yet, I simply mailed these extraneous crystals to some of my other characters who had not unlocked that crystal yet - to allow me to unlock the crystals on those characters too, without having to needlessly spend CC on it.

 

I have no legacy weapons - these were UNBOUND (still to be bound!) Crystals.

 

I have been sent an apology and an extra 3 days of play time.

 

Some of you "blamers" need to wind your necks.

[Doctorsaurus]

You find a loophole, that allows you to bypass those costs, and want to claim your ban is their fault because they never said you couldn't use a loophole to avoid the costs?

Well they sent an apology and three days of free game time so Bioware seems to think so.