Why did Jeff Hickman lie to subscribers about the future of the game?

[Nyaara]

Hey folks,

 

I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market.

 

It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription.

 

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber.

 

With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

 

Thanks Eric. I must say you are an excelent Community Manager and much better, for example, that S. Reid. I dint think anyone here goes against you.

 

I canceled my account when 2.1 was known as a Cartel Patch bringing content that was told to be free for subscribers. Was the last drop.

 

Im sure that a good number of veteran customers have already canceled due to this patch. Those veterans who stayed and kept paying for the game last summer. Since then, just broken promises we have seen.

 

Eric, people are not idiot. EA can charm the new customers with false promises but not the old ones. The non Cartel Market content EAware is releasing is tiny. Just check that you called an expansion pack, is just a DLC, which brings a new planet that just lasts a few hours, ONE Operation and the Binocular/Scanning daylies. That´s all for an expansion pack. Asation, 55 Hards etc is not NEW content. Is old content. What will be new 55 Hard? Colicoid Flashpoint?.

 

EA is being too lazy releasing that kind of stuff, just look the Gree Event is coming soon. Is the SAME THING. You even didnt bother in changing the rewards a bit!!!. That cos veterans are pissed of.

 

And finally you are coming here telling us that the new 2.2 patch wont be Cartel Market patch only. Ok but do you think a patch that is not even in the PTS coming mid june would bring a batch of new conten?t. Thats near impossible cos would be a feast of bugs.

 

You wont fix this releasing a new Flashpoint or Ops or, who knows, a new Warzone. This goes beyond that cos this game needs much more content and needs other features and no only market stuff. This is not The Sims Online or how dress your Barbie, is a MMORPG. And a MMORPG needs much more if wanna last long. The question, Eric, is if EAWare wanna see this game lasting longer or just is milking the cow before take it to the slaughterhouse. IMO, is the second one that EA wants. Cos develovping/maintaining a MMORPG is not like a new FIFA, takes much time and resources.

 

And needs much more content cos since F2P you have released near nothing but a crappy event and tons of shiny armors, pets, mounts, crystals etcetcetcetcetc. And you got a chance with the Hutt xpack and you failed badly.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Nyaara

[DarthDymond]

Once again we get the standard smoke and mirrors and redirection in their responses. "We hear you, can't give any details today, please stay tuned". Stall tactics, they do this all the time...

Complaining about the lack of concrete statements in a thread all about raking BW over the coals for a change (or "misinterpretation" according to some) that was made to a 9-month old statement? Let's be honest, the biggest impact of all this is going to be a sharp decrease in dev communication, which the forum team had actually been improving on over the past few months.

 

I get holding people accountable if you honestly feel like they're playing a deliberate bait-and-switch game, but they've been upfront about how the F2P business model has been developing over time - we've known that Cathar and the Barber Shop were going to be CC-driven for several months. Not sure how one sentence in a 9-month old quote counts for more than the multiple developer updates and forum posts BW has put out over the intervening months that gave actual specifics that they'd charge but are factoring in subs' stipend in pricing everything.

 

We need constructive criticism and player feedback to make this game as good as it can be, so let them know if you think the Collection system should be changed, or that subs should get more CCs, and especially things major issues like the APAC problem, but I don't get the frothing-at-the-mouth anger some people are showing over a CM patch that was added in addition to the normal content patch coming on June 12.

Edited May 18, 2013 by DarthDymond

[Dawginole]

Updated OP with my thoughts after attending Friday nights Dallas meet and great.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6311025&postcount=1

[Aries_cz]

Just check that you called an expansion pack, is just a DLC, which brings a new planet that just lasts a few hours, ONE Operation and the Binocular/Scanning daylies. That´s all for an expansion pack.

Well, they did price it accordingly, didn't they? I mean, ~10 dollars for it was a steal. many DLCs for other games give you maybe 1 hours of fun for that amount of money? RotHC gave at least 10+ hours... just saying

[DarthBrundleFLY]

Updated OP with my thoughts after attending Friday nights Dallas meet and great.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6311025&postcount=1

 

Nice that you were able to talk to them in person, I will never have that luxury, the thing is though they are having meetings about what to do...nothing in this game comes quickly unless it is on the Cartel Market. Will there be any veterans left by the time they work something out...just seems like more stall tactics to me.

 

There are 2 big MMO's coming very soon, I play this because it is Star Wars if it was anything else I would have bailed a long time ago. I am on the Australian servers and I can tell you we especially are not feeling like valued subscribers being constantly ignored about what or when or transfers are happening. A little communication would go very far with my community.

 

But it is the weekend now so nothing more will be said or done till Monday, I am happy you had the chance to talk with them, have a great weekend.

Edited May 18, 2013 by DarthBrundleFLY

[Aries_cz]

Nice that you were able to talk to them in person, I will never have that luxury, the thing is though they are having meetings about what to do...nothing in this game comes quickly unless it is on the Cartel Market. Will there be any veterans left by the time they work something out...just seems like more stall tactics to me.

Well, modeling one set of armor is easier than programming and modeling encounters for flashpoints and operations, and they require almost not testing. So logically, armors can be released faster

[Nyaara]

Well, they did price it accordingly, didn't they? I mean, ~10 dollars for it was a steal. many DLCs for other games give you maybe 1 hours of fun for that amount of money? RotHC gave at least 10+ hours... just saying

 

Well, doesnt matter if costs 10 or 20 bucks, its not an expansion pack, is a DLC. Lets remember that the old BW staff was releasing Makeb as a free update. And cos is a DLC (or a simple update) and not really an expansion, the Imp/Rep Fleets is starting to be packed with people running with nothing to do. More or less the same than a year ago.

 

Maked should have been a strong expansion with tons of new content. Of course, the price should have been much higher like 30-40€ but a strong expansion gives you plenty of time after that cos people are busy playing.

 

Right now, is impossible that EAware can fix this and this game will be lacking content for a while. And if they think Cartel Market can fill up that void, they should wake up and stop dreaming.

[Raphiel_]

That silence you hear coming back at you and the people no longer replying, they are the people that left. Your winning a fight with yourselves. Bravo. Now ill pop that cork and say b-bye bubs.

 

Ow and we know you are bioware employees, thats how your getting around the forums rules, evidence above this post.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Raphiel_

[Stylez]

Until BW actually releases details about how to make Subscribers access all the game content for free like they promised at the get go, I will not believe a thing they "promise to look at this because we heard you loud and clear."

 

This should be a priority, not an afterthought in a weekly meeting.

[LordArtemis]

......

 

Insulting another member, violating the forum rules...does this demonstrate a superior level of intelligence? Better yet how about self respect?

[Thundergulch]

I clearly have no self respect

[Darth_Haderach]

The only problem here was calling a major Cartel Market addition "Game Update 2.1". Now despite being told this does not interfere with the normal intervals of new content additions, people go on a rampage throughout the forum.

 

From my observation in-game, the customization update brought a lot of diversity, buzz and friendly jokes. I'm sorry to see the grim attitudes here.

 

If anything, I am really glad the Cartel Market was introduced in the first place as it brought life back into the game. If we were to start seeing content being canceled in favor of CM updates, then that would be a problem. Clearly that is not the case and the normal addition of content continues. In my opinion the rest is different forms of expressing a strained feeling of entitlement.

[LordArtemis]

I clearly have no self respect

 

Well, that's unfortunate then.

[Kubernetic]

Hey folks,

 

I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market.

 

It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription.

 

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber.

 

With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

 

Mr. Musco... I have been one of those being quite harsh on you and your team over the last few days especially, but as always, I do appreciate the feedback and your candid comments, as always.

 

I truly hope you all are able to devise something that at least approaches a new direction that helps mitigate some of what's gone on already.

 

As I have always said, I loved this game from the first few moments I made it into the Thanksgiving betas in 2011, and have gained literally months worth of enjoyment while playing through the content that was available. Regardless of how the love and thrill of the game began to wane as that content was finally consumed and I reached endgame (which still seems to go nowhere and offer little more than endlessly repetitive experiences and gear grinds), I will always remember the good fun that was had.

 

I wholeheartedly look forward to a day in the future where I am once again excited enough to hit that Subscribe button and once again begin throwing my $80 a month at you. Please continue to do all that you can to make this happen as soon as possible.

 

Cheers, and thanks!

[Kubernetic]

Was it so we wouldn't bail for 6 months so you could continue to use subscription dollars to finance building up your cartel market and F2P system?

 

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20120731

 

 

 

That couldn't have been written any more clearly. All additions to the game, even after the implementation of F2P, would remain free to subscribers. This was written to subscribers to belay our fears in the transition. It was done so to maintain our trust. Your 2.1 update is in violation of this guarantee and you have violated the trust established between you and your subscribers when you decided to move to F2P.

 

p.s. Guess who met Eric Musco at the Dallas meet? This guy. And he didn't kill me. We had a good talk. Meetings are underway to figure out some ways to make sure subs are feeling the love. They really wanted to drive home that F2P is all about vanity and that you will never ever be able to "buy power" from the CM. And I was guaranteed that something like the ship parts fiasco will never happen again. I'm still bothered by the fact that the barber shop is an in game feature and not really used through the cartel market, but is rather an in game station that accepts Cartel Coins. But its implementation may have simply been easier that way that putting it directly in the CM.

 

The post did its job. We got their attention and renewed their drive to support subs and make sure power and content stays off the CM. I think we can all take a chill pill for a bit at this point.

 

I really hope you're right about this. Although I couldn't be there for the conversation... I appreciate your efforts and time spent to try to get the point across in person.

 

Let's hope they make good on their promises going forward...

[LOWTHOR]

Hey folks,

 

I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market.

 

It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription.

 

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber.

 

With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

 

Until I see action these are just words. There are no examples, there is no commitment. First the Space gear debacle (which still hasn't been fixed) and now the race and barber shop debacle. I definitely feel that as a subscriber I am paying for this game twice.

 

I mostly subscribe because I like doing space missions, battlegrounds, FP whenever I feel like it. But since the 'expansion; I bought couldn't even give me a new space mission, I see no reason to continue subscribing after lvl 55. And this post does not give me anything to change that idea.

[MajikMyst]

Until I see action these are just words..

 

They have been actions since F2P was released.. Perhaps you should pay more attention..

 

When was the last time a subscriber had to pay to have access to an OP, FP, PVP, or a space mission??

 

Answer?? Never..

 

Case closed..

[JediJonesJr]

Hey folks,

 

I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market.

 

It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription.

 

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber.

 

With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

 

Thank you for responding and this in my opinion personally is a show of good faith by BW/EA . thanks again.

[Zsavooz]

Mr. Musco... I have been one of those being quite harsh on you and your team over the last few days especially, but as always, I do appreciate the feedback and your candid comments, as always.

 

I truly hope you all are able to devise something that at least approaches a new direction that helps mitigate some of what's gone on already.

 

As I have always said, I loved this game from the first few moments I made it into the Thanksgiving betas in 2011, and have gained literally months worth of enjoyment while playing through the content that was available. Regardless of how the love and thrill of the game began to wane as that content was finally consumed and I reached endgame (which still seems to go nowhere and offer little more than endlessly repetitive experiences and gear grinds), I will always remember the good fun that was had.

 

I wholeheartedly look forward to a day in the future where I am once again excited enough to hit that Subscribe button and once again begin throwing my $80 a month at you. Please continue to do all that you can to make this happen as soon as possible.

 

Cheers, and thanks!

 

Mr. Musco has absolutely no control over anything in this game, he's just a mouth piece.

[Vaerah]

They have been actions since F2P was released.. Perhaps you should pay more attention..

 

When was the last time a subscriber had to pay to have access to an OP, FP, PVP, or a space mission??

 

Answer?? Never..

 

Case closed..

 

This is very odd.

 

I am playing MMOs since the 2000s and I have NEVER had to play a full sub PLUS more money for some features. To me this reeks of a money grabbing scheme.

 

In "pre F2P era" MMOs you'd get everything for your $15. Everything, save very special services like moving characters between servers, undeleting them and similar.

 

In F2P era MMOs I'd have to buy slots, ability to use gear and similar, sure. But the game costed ZERO recurring sub (a bit like Preferred Status).

 

In other MMOs I'd pay the box (Guild Wars 2) but no subscription at all. Even the additional features could be (also) bought with in game gold.

 

In other MMOs I'd either pay a full sub and have EVERYTHING or pay a "reduced" (halved) sub and separately pay for additional features.

 

So what's the deal with SWTOR having BOTH to pay the full, class AAA MMO subscription AND ALSO pay the "additional features"?

 

Money Grab.

[Kubernetic]

Mr. Musco has absolutely no control over anything in this game, he's just a mouth piece.

 

As the Community Manager, he's either got the ear of his associates at BioWare with the power to actually change things or he doesn't. I used the phrase "you all" for a reason.

 

But again, it really doesn't matter at this point. If they do something, I resubscribe. If not, I keep looking for the next big thing. No big.

[Shadpwfox]

Laugh it up, the asa wernt laughing when i told them.

 

I can't stop laughing at your "threat" Entitled people like you are hilarious

[yoomazir]

As long as they bring more story & lore content I'm cool, hopefuly this will mean that one day they'll give real stories chapters for the classes and not some Makeb filler.

[Uber_the_Goober]

You sighed it the second your next subscription hit after f2p as you agreed to it with continue to subscribe.

 

Listen kid the most you could ever hope to gain even if you weren't laughed out of court is your $15 back...

 

Give it up.

[sir_star_wars]

/sign /bump or something

 

Love your siggy.