Why did Jeff Hickman lie to subscribers about the future of the game?

[Kilora]

how are tux and kilora getting all lovey-doveyish? isn't kilora one of the white knights, and tux not so much? I thought we had a clear divide here. seriously, i just went back through like 2 pages of posts. i'm confused.

 

oh well. i'm good with peace. all i ever wanted was a better game.

 

It all started with me answering someones questions with pure facts, and nothing else.

 

Some of which are definitely anti-white-knight.

 

I think he's seen me enough now to realize I *usually* keep my cool during a thread. I call people out when they lie, or present false facts, or make broad statements about the entire playerbase.

 

I try to get people to stop speaking out of their asses about software development, when it is clear they know nothing about it. And I try to bring an optimistic yet slightly cynical approach to things.

 

I was a complete hater of the game before I left pre-1.3. When I first came back, I was 100% "white-knight."

 

I'd like to think I'm now falling somewhere in the middle -- but my goal is to show people another way to view things, so they can have another dimension to their complaints.

 

Alas -- I'm not perfect, and I never will be =P I'm also not always good with putting words into my head. I type 130 WPM and still cannot type as fast as my brain functions >.<

[XantosCledwin]

Was it so we wouldn't bail for 6 months so you could continue to use subscription dollars to finance building up your cartel market and F2P system?

 

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20120731

 

First, you can continue as a subscriber, which gives you unlimited access to ALL game features and future Game Updates at no additional charge.

 

That couldn't have been written any more clearly. All additions to the game, even after the implementation of F2P, would remain free to subscribers. This was written to subscribers to belay our fears in the transition. It was done so to maintain our trust. Your 2.1 update is in violation of this guarantee and you have violated the trust established between you and your subscribers when you decided to move to F2P.

 

Eh heh heh.... it isn't necessarily the 2.1 update that is in violation of this agreement (although requiring that users pay cartel coins to utilize the Kiosk does appear to violate this agreement), but rather it is the fact that users had to actually purchase the digital expansion (Rise of the Hutt Cartel) in order to gain access to it (has this changed now that it has officially been released?). The fact that you have to pay for digital expansion packs is the most obvious violation of the agreement that can be seen as it is in direct opposition to the statement that you quoted. Subscribers no longer have automatic and unlimited access to all game updates with no additional charge since they quite obviously had to pay an additional charge just to access the Digital Upgrade Pack.

 

No such charge was directly applied to content update 2.1, though indirect microtransaction charges could be argued as being breeches of this agreement they really aren't. The only real solid example is the Rise of the Hutt Cartel Expansion itself. And that only holds true if the expansion still costs money to purchase for subscribers now that it has gone live.

[Talonwk]

The last few pages of post seem to have deteriorated the discussion and have nothing to do with this post. it just insults back and forth that don't relate to the OP.

 

The question from the OP was answered by a yellow post. I don't feel lied to because I read the list found here http://www.swtor.com/free/features and all the things in the list are still true and have not been taken away or diminished. The blog post was clearly overstated and was a mistake which was confirmed by eric. Everyone should look closely at the subscriber features in the link and decide if those features are worth their subscription or not and not expect anything else to be added. If you are a long term player and don't think its worth it then become preferred and use the unlocks and then be happy you are saving money because you only use the features you want and are not paying for things you don't want.

 

I pay $13 a month with the 180 day sub and with a security key i get 700 cartel coins. I could spend $15 and get 1500 cartel coins or pay $10 and get 900 cartel coins. So the question for me is cartel coin and price difference worth it compared and not having limitations on the things I can do and its not in my opinion. I may start saving up my credits and get a lot of the authorizations for my account and switch over to preferred so I only pay for what I need but it just seems easier to not worry about a few dollars a month difference and not having to worry about buying operations authorizations or anything like that. The other fact is with enough time you could easily play the game entirely for free since you can buy the stuff off the GTN. I guess people don't like having options.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Talonwk

[meaniedevilface]

He lied so we'd subscribe. Seems pretty straightforward.

[Blackardin]

6 months ago I told my mom I was planning on going to school to get an MBA. Now I changed my mind and don't think its worth the money. Does that make me a liar?

 

Yes, and sorry, I'm not going to subscribe to you an further, Ice. ;p

 

Point is solid. Things change, usually based on circumstance. I'm thinking that it was said in a marketing way and decided by finance as things developed.

 

In short, there is some deception there, but the extent does not seem extreme to me, neither does the fact that that some items cost cartel coins to purchase. Personally always liked the idea of allowing some cash purchases for items that would otherwise waste game time (which is more restricted for me then I'd like) which I would rather reserve for raiding.

 

Honestly do not know why the extreme nature of some of the protests. Pretty much anything bought in the cartel market can be purchased on the GTN with some cash grinding in game. Right?

[YanksfanJP]

I never signed that, did you sign it? Did Bioware sign it?

 

Many contracts do not need to be signed. Only certain types of contracts require a signature.

[Blackardin]

He lied so we'd subscribe. Seems pretty straightforward.

 

You are free to drop your subscription and go Free to Play, but I'm thinking the cost to match what you and I currently enjoy would be significantly higher. That is why we subscribe, not because of Jeff or anything said by anyone at any time. We still enjoy the overall game, and we are getting it at a discount and with a few little perks, so we stay.

 

Some are upset that they may have to pay cartel to gain some additional perks, but I think we have to remember that cartel basically kept this game on life support until it could start to get stronger, and its keeping it going. Even with that, as I've said, just all the little niceties can be purchased with cartel can be bought in game.

 

Yes, there is some principle there, but beyond that I'm not seeing a big deal here.

[Blackardin]

When you manage a professional business and open a direct communication channel to paying customers and lie it tends to destroy your credibility. Your comparison is garbage but I wouldn't expect some dweeb living on your mothers *** to know any better.

 

When you open a direct communication channel to paying customers your credibility will be destroyed no matter what you say. This board is a virtual warehouse of lies and misinformation spewing forth in the most venomous wrapper one could experience in this venue. Ive seen their words twisted so vehemently and I believe now that there is a true talent to accomplishing such. ;p

 

Open, General boards such as these are and always will be a bad idea. Feedback? Suggestions? Specific, and well monitored, game area boards? All good. A place to go and wax on endlessly about the devil behind the curtain? No. We are experiencing fare greater a rip-off at the hands of our cable TV providers, internet providers then we could ever experience in a game such as this......but they have no general board to complain on......

[Blackardin]

Hey folks,

 

I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market.

 

It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription.

 

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber.

 

With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

 

There. Done.

 

Thank you for that. ;p

 

We move on....

[tman_ac]

Some are upset that they may have to pay cartel to gain some additional perks, but I think we have to remember that cartel basically kept this game on life support until it could start to get stronger, and its keeping it going. Even with that, as I've said, just all the little niceties can be purchased with cartel can be bought in game.

 

This makes no sense at all. The subscription only model failed because BW couldn't bring enough content in time. If the game would have had that 6-8 weeks update schedule right from the beginning, many players wouldn't have left the game. Don't forget the initial sold units of this game. In May of last year SWTOR still had 1.3 million active subscriptions.

 

After the release they just failed to keep us attracted.The hardcore fans stayed and they introduced f2p. Now they are milking the hardcore fans on top of their subscription for features we should get for free. (according to Hickmans post back in the days)

 

So yeh, after f2p introduction they lost focus on the subscribers. What makes this MMO different to all other MMOs out there is: IT IS STAR WARS!

 

So players do care about their appearance, how their gear looks like or what species they play. If the subscription fee doesn't cover that, why do you even need to stay subscribed?

 

Don't get me wrong, I want this game to continue but not for all costs. I was okay with these fluff gambling packs on the CM, as well with all the other fluff you can buy. But why the hell you can only get the best looking gear from CM? Why do you even need to play the game when you get all this stuff exclusively only from CM?

 

If you haven't already, you should really face the truth that a sub is not worth it anymore. We have access to the stuff we had access to at the launch of the game and after f2p hit, we had to pay on top for everything else. (except of section x)

 

They add so much stuff to the market you can't earn enough coins with your monthly stipend to get it. They know it, and that's what they wanted to do. Milk the loyal customers even more.

[orangefishboy]

This makes no sense at all. The subscription only model failed because BW couldn't bring enough content in time. If the game would have had that 6-8 weeks update schedule right from the beginning, many players wouldn't have left the game. Don't forget the initial sold units of this game. In May of last year SWTOR still had 1.3 million active subscriptions.

 

After the release they just failed to keep us attracted.The hardcore fans stayed and they introduced f2p. Now they are milking the hardcore fans on top of their subscription for features we should get for free. (according to Hickmans post back in the days)

 

So yeh, after f2p introduction they lost focus on the subscribers. What makes this MMO different to all other MMOs out there is: IT IS STAR WARS!

 

So players do care about their appearance, how their gear looks like or what species they play. If the subscription fee doesn't cover that, why do you even need to stay subscribed?

 

Don't get me wrong, I want this game to continue but not for all costs. I was okay with these fluff gambling packs on the CM, as well with all the other fluff you can buy. But why the hell you can only get the best looking gear from CM? Why do you even need to play the game when you get all this stuff exclusively only from CM?

 

If you haven't already, you should really face the truth that a sub is not worth it anymore. We have access to the stuff we had access to at the launch of the game and after f2p hit, we had to pay on top for everything else. (except of section x)

 

They add so much stuff to the market you can't earn enough coins with your monthly stipend to get it. They know it, and that's what they wanted to do. Milk the loyal customers even more.

 

Well yes, the cartel market is a way to make money, if we were supposed to be able to buy EVERYTHING on it with the monthly coins, it would all just be free to us in the first place. Also, everything on the market IS vanity, aside from the exp boosts, which are unneeded, since you can level from 1-55 in about a week. Also, every appearance change is hugely discounted for subs.

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

NOT TRUE for the life-day bundle...

 

Until next life day when it will be back in the CM.

[macumba]

Hey folks,

 

I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market.

 

It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription.

 

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber.

 

With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

 

at first people chose to stay subscribers because it was said that there would not be much of a difference. you get your additional income from the cartel market that would not have been there in the first place (if the game had continued with sub only)

 

now if this was still a sub only game of course the race option would have either been included in the expansion (most probably that) or the subscription.

 

so compared to what the world would have been like if this was still a sub game we are getting less for for our money now.

 

ok the reality is now another and you are free to play and you can deduct anything you like, just not expect us to react kindly. we are paying a sub and there is no reason why we should not complain when you decide to decrease the value returned.

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

And also take note that this "content" update was issued in the middle of the month when alot of subscribers have spent their "free" coins.

 

What?

 

CCs are given out on the basis of your payment date, which is the day in the month that you started your sub. CC are only given out at the start of the month for those that pay at the start of the month. Mine arrive on about the 22nd each month.

[Zadtro]

I am just annoyed because as a subscriber it says clearly on the comparison sheet that whoever subs doesn't have to unlock other species, we can level up from lvl 1. Now if paying for subs is no longer going to unlock species then i think i need to question subbing, the main reason for doing it was because i wanted to be able to play all the races when i make new characters.

 

I know its a business so they need to make money so i can understand non subs paying for it but if we have been paying monthly since launch I don't see why we can't just start at lvl 1 with new species.

[tman_ac]

The TORtanic is sinking. All these new feature are meant to ban/get rid of players. What has happened the past weeks is so entertaining. Most of my free-time I am spending now on the forums instead of in the game.

 

Guess when I decide to resub it is only because I have access to the forums.

[bionamaster]

The TORtanic is sinking. All these new feature are meant to ban/get rid of players. What has happened the past weeks is so entertaining. Most of my free-time I am spending now on the forums instead of in the game.

 

Guess when I decide to resub it is only because I have access to the forums.

 

So, you believe EA/Bioware is attempting the demolish it's playerbase, on purpose, for "teh lulz"?

 

 

 

Yeah........have fun with the Forums, pal. Good to know you'll be paying them money to post, at least.....

[tman_ac]

If you haven't noticed it, my last post was meant to be a joke. Get over it!