Why did Jeff Hickman lie to subscribers about the future of the game?

[DarthTHC]

And how horrible to put out an "expansion" without a new race only to sell a new race a month later.

 

Indeed. How horrible to give players a choice of whether or not they want the new species, and then to pay between $0 and $6 over and above their subs for it for it if they do, rather than to just upcharge the expansion by $6 and force it on everyone. The latter would be MUCH better for consumers...

 

You're complaining that they made a move that is anti-money grabbing. The exact opposite thing everyone seems to complain about EA. Think about that.

[jamesvasquez]

Indeed. How horrible to give players a choice of whether or not they want the new species, and then to pay between $0 and $6 over and above their subs for it for it if they do, rather than to just upcharge the expansion by $6 and force it on everyone. The latter would be MUCH better for consumers...

 

You're complaining that they made a move that is anti-money grabbing. The exact opposite thing everyone seems to complain about EA. Think about that.

 

Thinking is like reading the EULA. It's for suckers. Let's foam at the mouth and disagree with anything that is different from our assumptions.

[Lord_Karsk]

This is EA on ingame stores

[branmakmuffin]

Thinking is like reading the EULA. It's for suckers. Let's foam at the mouth and disagree with anything that is different from our assumptions.

You astound me, sir.

 

GJ.

 

[BrokenBokken]

Video Game EULAs give the developer free reign to **** you over and change what they offer at anytime. Your only option, truly, is to not sign it. If you check the box saying you agree, they have the right to do anything they want with the software after that.

 

What you say is pretty much true, although a bit hyperbolic, however if the EULA is unreasonable, it may be unenforceable.

 

One crazy thing that IS enforceable are things like the valve EULA which actually strips you of your right to form a class action lawsuit and forces you into binding arbitration. The courts have upheld that this is completely legal.

 

Also, this is a good read if you like legal stuff.

 

While we are discussing legality:

 

Promises become binding when there is a meeting of the minds and consideration [Ed. something of value] is exchanged. So it was at King's Bench in common law England; so it was under the common law in the American colonies; so it was through more than two centuries of jurisprudence in this country; and so it is today. Assent may be registered by a signature, a handshake, or a click of a computer mouse transmitted across the invisible ether of the Internet. Formality is not a requisite; any sign, symbol or action, or even willful inaction, as long as it is unequivocally referable to the promise, may create a contract.

 

Is something a developer says on a game website enforceable in court? Well, to know if it is in this case, you'd have to read the EULA from Bioware, which we all agreed to by installing the game.

 

This EUALA grants you a limited license to use the Software to play the Game. You have no rights to or in the Software and/or the Game or its content.

 

We are paying for a license to use the software. Our payment in no way implies that we have any right to content. Bioware doesn't "owe" us anything just because we pay a subscription.

 

And then there is this bit.

 

Entire Agreement. Except as specifically set forth in this EUALA, this EUALA constitutes the entire agreement between you and EA with respect to the Software and supersedes all prior or contemporaneous understandings, either express or implicit, regarding such subject matter. No amendment to or modification of this EUALA will be binding unless made in writing and signed by EA. None of EA’s distributors, agents, or any of their respective employees are authorized to make modifications or additions to this EUALA.

 

Nothing anything the employees say can override the EULA. So, "promises" made by Bioware employees are not official and are not binding. Oh, and if you'd like to take EA/Bioware to court and argue this in front of a judge, I give you this:

 

By entering into this Agreement, you and EA expressly waive the right to a trial by jury or to participate in a class action.

 

And, as I stated earlier, the courts have withheld this behavior entirely legal within the confines of a EULA. So, your only choice is to go into binding arbitration if you'd like to sue EA. Personally, I have better things to do with my time and money.

[btsager]

6 months ago I told my mom I was planning on going to school to get an MBA. Now I changed my mind and don't think its worth the money. Does that make me a liar?

 

Did your mom give you money every month for the last 6 months in anticipation that you would use it to go to school with? Then when you changed your mind, you kept the money?

 

If not, you comparison is not relevant.

[Benfynyn]

It's a business. Of course they want our money. I wouldn't have it any other way. We should pay for goods and services we find value in. This allows the provider to continue providing those goods and services.

 

A better thing to ask for is how they'll make us feel like we're getting better value for the money we do spend.

 

I don't recall asking a question. I was just rephrasing his statement. I fully understand that it's a business but instead of telling us 'they are going to try to make us feel better about being a subscriber and are looking for ways to do that' (which could be anything or nothing) I would rather they come out say something like; 'We looked at the projected profits of making these features Cartel Market only and decided it was too lucrative to pass up'.

 

At least that would have been honest.

[DarthTHC]

I don't recall asking a question. I was just rephrasing his statement. I fully understand that it's a business but instead of telling us 'they are going to try to make us feel better about being a subscriber and are looking for ways to do that' (which could be anything or nothing) I would rather they come out say something like; 'We looked at the projected profits of making these features Cartel Market only and decided it was too lucrative to pass up'.

 

At least that would have been honest.

 

Doubt that's what they did.

 

They have in their minds that they will charge cartel coins for appearance. Anything that's appearance then, the default answer becomes cartel market.

 

'Tis a far better approach than p2w, which they do in other games.

[Flying-Brian]

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber.

 

With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

 

So Eric, please tell me how, with my monthly stipend, can I dye the gear on my characters in the colors that I (not BW) want to? For my 600 coin monthly stipend I can buy 3 dye packs, which will give me 6 random dyes. Now with RNG being what it is, and the fact that I have never been able to pull the cool rare item from a cartel pack, the odds of getting sh*t are in my favor.

 

Where as if you had made dyes available for purchase directly (say 50CC for the green standard, 100cc for blue prototype and 200cc for the purple artifact) I would be able to use my monthly stipend to get the colors I would want, and would still be inclined to buy more coins, so that I could customize more characters past what I could purchse with my monthly stipend.

[DarthTHC]

So Eric, please tell me how, with my monthly stipend, can I dye the gear on my characters in the colors that I (not BW) want to? For my 600 coin monthly stipend I can buy 3 dye packs, which will give me 6 random dyes. Now with RNG being what it is, and the fact that I have never been able to pull the cool rare item from a cartel pack, the odds of getting sh*t are in my favor.

 

Where as if you had made dyes available for purchase directly (say 50CC for the green standard, 100cc for blue prototype and 200cc for the purple artifact) I would be able to use my monthly stipend to get the colors I would want, and would still be inclined to buy more coins, so that I could customize more characters past what I could purchse with my monthly stipend.

 

Here's a thought... use the resources at your disposal as a subscriber to obtain ingame credits. Then use those ingame credits to purchase the dye colors you want from the GTN. Then you have to spend zero cartel coins. If you want some ideas about how to use your ingame resources to generate credits, read the stickies in the crafting forum.

 

Or if you want to accelerate that a bit, use your cartel coins to buy gambling packs of whatever flavor you choose. Then post them, unopened (that's important!) to the GTN. Collect your credits and buy the dye color you want from GTN with them.

 

Other stuff sells well too. I heard the Cathar unlock was going gor ~2 million recently. Probably down some by now, but 2 mil for 600 coins is a nice ratio, better than anything else.

Edited May 17, 2013 by DarthTHC

[CosmicKat]

What you say is pretty much true, although a bit hyperbolic, however if the EULA is unreasonable, it may be unenforceable.

 

...

 

And, as I stated earlier, the courts have withheld this behavior entirely legal within the confines of a EULA. So, your only choice is to go into binding arbitration if you'd like to sue EA. Personally, I have better things to do with my time and money.

 

Not that I disagree with the gist of your post, but...

 

In most countries it is not legally possible to "sign away" your rights.

[Benfynyn]

Doubt that's what they did.

 

They have in their minds that they will charge cartel coins for appearance. Anything that's appearance then, the default answer becomes cartel market.

 

'Tis a far better approach than p2w, which they do in other games.

 

I'll agree with that. I just hope that they realize that in the absence of actual content anything new is going to be viewed as content. They ought to have mixed this cartel market updates in with the 2.2 update (assuming it's as substantial as they claim) and just called the whole thing 2.1. If there had been a FP added, or something comparable, with 2.1 there would have been far less complaints.

[jamesvasquez]

Not that I disagree with the gist of your post, but...

 

In most countries it is not legally possible to "sign away" your rights.

 

While this is true, it's not your game. You play it. You pay for it. But it's EA's game. You're just agreeing that whatever they choose to do with their game is not up to you, nor will it ever be up to you. So you're not signing away your rights so much as giving them artistic license over something they already own.

[Iggster]

I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

 

I think a good place to start is to just remove the CC requirement from the kiosk on everything except species change.

 

I mean do you really need to charge us 20 CC? Yes it's a pittance, but it's just unnecessary. It just feels I am being squeezed for every last penny.

[branmakmuffin]

Not that I disagree with the gist of your post, but...

 

In most countries it is not legally possible to "sign away" your rights.

That depends to a huge extent on the laws of the jurisdiction and the rights in question. So it's way too big a topic to make such a broad, sweeping statement about.

 

In the U.S., for example, waiving one's 4th Amendment rights is a common requirement for being put on probation.

Edited May 17, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[CosmicKat]

Here's a thought... use the resources at your disposal as a subscriber to obtain ingame credits. Then use those ingame credits to purchase the dye colors you want from the GTN. Then you have to spend zero cartel coins. If you want some ideas about how to use your ingame resources to generate credits, read the stickies in the crafting forum.

 

Or if you want to accelerate that a bit, use your cartel coins to buy gambling packs of whatever flavor you choose. Then post them, unopened (that's important!) to the GTN. Collect your credits and buy the dye color you want from GTN with them.

 

Other stuff sells well too. I heard the Cathar unlock was going gor ~2 million recently. Probably down some by now, but 2 mil for 600 credits is a nice ratio, better than anything else.

 

An alternative method would be for BW to add new missions that have dyes as a reward only selectable to subscribers. This would kill multiple space bird with one space stone...

 

- New actual content.... check

- Subscriber reward... check

- Incentive to subscribe... check

- Potential to make money for those still not wanting to subscribe by making the reward unlockable by CC... check

- Goodwill to the customer... Priceless.

[Darth-Malice]

Hey folks,

 

I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market.

 

It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription.

 

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber.

 

With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

 

You know international wars have started over "Poor Choice Of Words" I don't think there is any need to sugar coat it Eric. Your bosses at EA want too make money. They told you too put items on the market to make said money. Just be honest with your community milking and stop trying too avoid speaking of it.

[DarthTHC]

I'll agree with that. I just hope that they realize that in the absence of actual content anything new is going to be viewed as content. They ought to have mixed this cartel market updates in with the 2.2 update (assuming it's as substantial as they claim) and just called the whole thing 2.1. If there had been a FP added, or something comparable, with 2.1 there would have been far less complaints.

 

Or if players could just remember the recent past and imagine the near future based on what the community team communicates, there would have been far less complaints.

 

There are probably numerous reasons that 2.1 and 2.2 were separated. 2.1 was an "off cycle" patch. We all seem to be forgetting that.

Edited May 17, 2013 by DarthTHC

[DarthTHC]

An alternative method would be for BW to add new missions that have dyes as a reward only selectable to subscribers. This would kill multiple space bird with one space stone...

 

- New actual content.... check

- Subscriber reward... check

- Incentive to subscribe... check

- Potential to make money for those still not wanting to subscribe by making the reward unlockable by CC... check

- Goodwill to the customer... Priceless.

 

Or they can just keep up their mantra that "appearance = cartel market". They've been very consistent with that messaging.

[Soxbadger]

Thank you for the response, but it actually isnt about the wording, its about the perception that EA/BW cares more about making money off CM, then it does about subscribers.

 

Now I think the developers are trying to insinuate that there will be a lot of in game stuff in the next patch. But that does nothing to stop the complaints today. Heck even something like "Subscribers get 1 week of free customization" or "subscribers get 1 free dye of their choice that is bound" and Id guess a ton of people would have been completely fine with it.

 

Basically for a few measly cc you could have earned a tremendous amount of good will with your player base.

[Tekeda]

So what were the last 2 content updates that subscribers got?

 

I have been away a year and recently resubbed. I was hoping that some of what I disliked would be fixed.

 

The problems I had mostly dealt with the actual combat experience. Abilities not firing off and and the global cooldown activating anyway stuttering animations and animations that activate but do not activate the ability. (example is Flame thrower showing the animation but the channel does not start and I end up pressing the button again to get it to work.

 

These are basic combat mechanics that continue to be broken a year after I left and I will not be resubbing.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Tekeda

[CosmicKat]

So what were the last 2 content updates that subscribers got?

 

I might be wrong but I think they were a poke in the eye and a kick in the ***.

[branmakmuffin]

I might be wrong but I think they were a poke in the eye and a kick in the ***.

You really are the flip-side of Andryah.

[jamesvasquez]

You really are the flip-side of Andryah.

 

what if they're the same person and she suffers from split personality disorder?

[CosmicKat]

You really are the flip-side of Andryah.

 

Best... compliment... ever.