Bhemont Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Except at the end intelligence is still dissolved, you are still a free agent regardless of the conversations you have and again the only thing that changes is a title. So the consequences just like SI and JK are purely aesthetic. Well done aesthetic mostly but aesthetic I don't like it when people post bs without any knowledge or have done any research before hand. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=84244 It's just pure trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstanks Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Jesa Williams /endthread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhemont Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Jesa Williams /endthread That's a minor consequence compared to lets say KotOR 2 where almost every companion could be swayed to either alignment. Not to mention be trained in the force. But she is hardly the only example anyway, just a poor choice of argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHierophant Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 They should put in consequences, sure. You murdered a guy on Coruscant at level 14, for no good reason at all, then as you are nearing the end of your class quest you need the location of an object that only that guy you murdered knew. You'll see how many people come screaming to the forums about consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Kelvar Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 They should put in consequences, sure. You murdered a guy on Coruscant at level 14, for no good reason at all, then as you are nearing the end of your class quest you need the location of an object that only that guy you murdered knew. You'll see how many people come screaming to the forums about consequences. I believe this happened with The Elder Scrolls Morrowind which is why quest related characters are unkillable. Even in a single player game people have difficulty dealing with consequences these days. The real difficulty I think in implementing stat buffs for companions would be what happens if you're a tank and your DPS and/or healer companions hate you and only your tank companion likes you? It might inadvertently cause certain ACs to be preferable if you want to go LS/DS and thus force people to either 1) make choices they don't want to so they can play the AC they want or 2) make the choices they want but not play the AC they want. I already find the MMO style somewhat immersion breaking since you can lift a siege on a bunker but 5-10 minutes later the same mob will all respawn in a fight to the death for the next guy doing the same quest. Now overall I like the quests and that the game is story driven so I can overlook stuff like that but until they find a way to actually change the game world environment to reflect your actions it'd be pretty hard to truly make your choices have consequences outside of a handful of cutscenes you see once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinapus Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 They should put in consequences, sure. You murdered a guy on Coruscant at level 14, for no good reason at all, then as you are nearing the end of your class quest you need the location of an object that only that guy you murdered knew. You'll see how many people come screaming to the forums about consequences. Heh, I was thinking of possible court-martials for the trooper or similar things. It would be amusing if the devs were logging our character choices and in a future update they make a big change to the game based on those choices. Would be some praise, but I suspect there would be many howls of anguish instead, even if it were long-term consequences as people have been desiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradLionhart Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Originally they tried to put in consequences like permanent death of your companion.What happened according to Daniel Erickson was a lot of angry gamers that their companion died. However, I read that the Imperial Agent class story has some consequences that may bite you later. If that's what you're talking about, yeah I would like more of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Rammstein Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Light side and dark side alignment don't even make a difference. The items the vendors sell are garbage that only lowbies would use for the relics. Restrictions were taken off the color crystals and some gear too I believe. It really doesn't matter what choices you make in this game, same end result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Karsk Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) Exsteme hand helding is the worst.They removed the whole thing with killing off companions because some braindead morons(friends of EA gametestesters) were upset that they could not get them back AFTER THEY KILLED THEM ! so the rest of us musr suffer because a few brainless idiots was whining about the choice they did. Edited December 28, 2012 by Lord_Karsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasstn Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 There are moments where your descisions have consequences, like with the trooper. You either safe a full base of republic prisoners from certain death OR you safe 1 SIS-agent you had an aafair with (as male char). YOu can't safe both. And the only thing that happens is that you get dark side points or light side points. You just proved the OPs point, while trying to prove him wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklordpotter Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I don't like it when people post bs without any knowledge or have done any research before hand. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=84244 It's just pure trolling. Um I've played Imperial Agent I know of what I speak...... Oh hey that link you posted? It's from beta those endings do not exist anymore. This is in fact discussed in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 There are no actions possible in real life that render you permanently "evil" or "good". Why should they exist in this game? Redemption and corruption remain possible, no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_nonymous Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 The real difficulty I think in implementing stat buffs for companions would be what happens if you're a tank and your DPS and/or healer companions hate you and only your tank companion likes you? It might inadvertently cause certain ACs to be preferable if you want to go LS/DS and thus force people to either 1) make choices they don't want to so they can play the AC they want or 2) make the choices they want but not play the AC they want. You could work around those buffs with companion gifts though. You lose -1 every time your companion dislikes your decision as it is. Some of the really bad decisions involving killing hundreds of people you may lose -100 or something. You can off set this with enough gifts. So a tank may be stuck bribing his healer companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHierophant Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I believe this happened with The Elder Scrolls Morrowind which is why quest related characters are unkillable. Even in a single player game people have difficulty dealing with consequences these days. The real difficulty I think in implementing stat buffs for companions would be what happens if you're a tank and your DPS and/or healer companions hate you and only your tank companion likes you? It might inadvertently cause certain ACs to be preferable if you want to go LS/DS and thus force people to either 1) make choices they don't want to so they can play the AC they want or 2) make the choices they want but not play the AC they want. I already find the MMO style somewhat immersion breaking since you can lift a siege on a bunker but 5-10 minutes later the same mob will all respawn in a fight to the death for the next guy doing the same quest. Now overall I like the quests and that the game is story driven so I can overlook stuff like that but until they find a way to actually change the game world environment to reflect your actions it'd be pretty hard to truly make your choices have consequences outside of a handful of cutscenes you see once. Yes, Morrowind has, even to today, one of the harshest in-game consequences. It's easy to inadvertently cut off major quests or even the main quest; for example, if you join the Mages Guild and make grandmaster and take the quest to kill the Telvanni councilors but you hadn't been name Hortator yet (and are not House Telvanni yourself) you can't finish the game. People wouldn't stand for major consequences, despite what a minority claims, because it would more heavily punish 'bad guys' just by the nature of your actions. Killing people is irreversible in the context of your story, so the more you kill the greater chance you have of losing important information. This would mean Imperial spree murderers would constantly be losing access to 'content' and would be howling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHierophant Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 There are no actions possible in real life that render you permanently "evil" or "good". Why should they exist in this game? Redemption and corruption remain possible, no matter what. Really? Ask Charles Manson. Humans have a saying "Don't burn bridges." It's allegory meant to teach us that it is not a good idea to permanently create a situation where it is impossible to revert the change; i.e. quitting your job by punching your boss in the face and smashing his personal vehicle. The 'choice' to forgive you and hire you back is no longer yours, it is now your boss', and since the AI in-game hasn't the capacity to be merciful, they'll always and forever hate you if you burnt them and you have no way of convincing them otherwise. Futhermore, objective observers from outside the situation will judge you based upon your actions, as well. Could you imagine someone from the Jedi on Tython wanting you in the Order if you've been rampaging from Coruscant on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I agree with the OP. These days I don't listen to the story (I've seen it enough) and just space bar through watch how much affection I get if its a good amount I contune if not ecs out and re-run making different choices or with a different companion. If the choices I made had any real effect (outside of many 2 per class story) I'd never do this. I'd make the choices I wanted to make and if my companion didn't like it they could go jump. But as it stands killing millions, letting people die etc etc means less to me than some dark or light points (till I have one of each maxed) or bonus companion affection cause its cheaper than buying some gifts. Yes its an MMO and this makes consequences harder those 10 rats will be back. But there are plenty of places where there can be some effect in the class story or instaced areas of the world story that choices can have an effect. Far more than they do currently, nearly every chapter or world arc ends with a big fight, this should be avoidable if you make certain choices through the game. There is a moment like this in the BH story line when you come across Blood and you can just leave him, shoot him or fight him But even this is too little given the choice and the conclusion of the choice is all done in one go. An example of where it would have been better When the Sith Warrior fights Baras two people perviously saved (if you so choose) turn up. They say they will stand with you and then disappear never to be seen again. They should of assisted in the fight or at least made mention in the dialogue. Equally often when you let someone live, kill them, fight someone else to save them it always ends up the same way. They die or they disappear never to be seen ever again. Many of these can be counted some even where if you save them two seconds later they will get shot. So with luck BW will take note and we will see some return of old friends and enemies. Though I wonder how many choices we have made will have been saved to make re-appearances, they need to take a look at the DA3 team who have promiesed not to do what they did in DA2. And while there see how important it is for players to carry over what they did in previous games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Really? Ask Charles Manson. Charles Manson never tried to redeem himself. That was a seriously weak retort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithInitiate Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 That's a minor consequence compared to lets say KotOR 2 where almost every companion could be swayed to either alignment. Not to mention be trained in the force. But she is hardly the only example anyway, just a poor choice of argument. not to mention.. any consequences one might occur during the 1-50 campaign (there are a couple per each class) is rendered mute once the player reaches 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinxblog Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I had the luxury to play 2 of the most engaging and dramatic class story lines with a friend who made very different, crucial choices along the way. In both the Jedi Knight and Imperial Agent, I did see some divergent conversations, choices, consequences, and even a unique quest. Light Side Jedi Knight vs Dark Side Jedi Knight While the major change didn't really come to fruition until Corellia, I noticed that people you chose to save pop up along the way to save your butt and give a few words of encouragement as you march to your final, epic battle. Even the Sith you turn on Tatoonie shows up among the Jedi ranks standing behind you. Another consequence of choosing ALL Dark Side choices as a Knight eventually leads to Satalle not allowing you to become a member of the Jedi Counsel, although a few members will insist that you should. I foresee this as an opportunity for the Devs to make radically different paths for a LS and DS Knight in the future. We could see a noble Jedi like Luke rise up, or a vengeful and frustrated Anakin threaten to pull the Order apart. Light Side Agent vs Dark Side Agent The Agent is where I saw the most divergence of all the other classes. Once you reach the end of chapter 1 in the Agent quest, you eventually have to chose to either help a Sith Lord, or stay loyal to Imperial Intelligence. The immediate effect is quite dramatic: Dark Siders will become the Hand of Jadus, his personal and powerful Agent while Light Siders will have to KILL a tough boss. This effect is striking as you progress, in many quests (not just class quests) I was addressed as the Hand of Jadus and even had a unique mission unlocked for me on Hoth where I had to recover some intel from crashed ships (not to engaging but the recordings were interesting). While my friend progressed in story lines as a loyal member of Intelligence; the Sith Threat by Jadus completely neutralized. I continued to have a few sparse meetings with the Sith Lord, getting my instructions, etc, but my friend never saw the man again and the plot line stayed truth to his death in Chapter 1. And finally, at the very end of Chapter 3, what you chose to do with the Black Box (or whatever it was called) sets up a major divergence in future class quests. While I gave the box to the Sith, further cementing my loyalty to them, my Light Side friend chose on use to box to delete the Agent's entire history, effectively leaving the political realm of the Empire to carry out any missions that he/she desires. I saw a dramatic difference: I was a powerful force of the Sith, ready to deployed at Jadus's command, while my friend was a shadow in the galaxy, performing missions only by his discretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) Um I've played Imperial Agent I know of what I speak...... Oh hey that link you posted? It's from beta those endings do not exist anymore. This is in fact discussed in the thread. Wrong. The only one in that list that was removed was The first one on the list where you bribe the Sith to keep intelligence together All the others are still there and I believe they're all viewable on youtube. You didn't read the thread well enough, I guess. I've played an agent to 50 three times. Edited December 28, 2012 by chuixupu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_nonymous Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 There are no actions possible in real life that render you permanently "evil" or "good". Why should they exist in this game? Redemption and corruption remain possible, no matter what. I completely and totally disagree with you, but that's a philosophical discussion. In any case, I think we would probably agree that there are decisions you make that make Redemption extremely difficult. It's not that way in the game. The most you get is 150 DS or LS points and you can counteract this in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 There are no actions possible in real life that render you permanently "evil" or "good". Why should they exist in this game? Redemption and corruption remain possible, no matter what. Hmmm...I guess there are plenty of people out there in RL who think serial killers can be redeemed. Wait...none that I know of. That said, this is the SW universe. Where in fact, one can be redeemed from killing thousands, blowing up a planet, all by doing just the right deed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklordpotter Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Wrong. The only one in that list that was removed was The first one on the list where you bribe the Sith to keep intelligence together All the others are still there and I believe they're all viewable on youtube. You didn't read the thread well enough, I guess. I've played an agent to 50 three times. And pretty much regardless you get the go off into the sunset ending and the "free agent" interlude screen plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darka Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 As they go forth, there has to be a heap of stuff ignored by player actions Like who you let live or die in class encounters, which could make it all redundant in the end. Or they just ignore it and bring in new players to the story and forget your past deads. Early on they spoke about the consequences of story, how a little decision may come back to haunt you. So far it hasnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklordpotter Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 As they go forth, there has to be a heap of stuff ignored by player actions Like who you let live or die in class encounters, which could make it all redundant in the end. Or they just ignore it and bring in new players to the story and forget your past deads. Early on they spoke about the consequences of story, how a little decision may come back to haunt you. So far it hasnt True enough. If it's anything like ME3 well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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