HK-51 Quest & its PVP requirement.

[Wefi]

Brilliant! Why didn't I think of that before?!

Oh that's right because Shadows and Vanguards can snatch you away from the vendor.

 

and Sages/sorce can force quake the area every time.

 

I gave up. At least im not the Sith side of things, i can imagine the drama thats going on right now on tat.

[monkgryphon]

Brilliant! Why didn't I think of that before?!

Oh that's right because Shadows and Vanguards can snatch you away from the vendor.

 

Hey, the strategy is still better than crying on the forums.

[mothear]

You made your choice of your own free will and readily accept the consequences of that choice.

 

I am having the option of waiting forced down my throat at the point of a lightsaber by a large group of sociopathic trolls.

 

 

In what language do I have to spell it out for you so that you'll understand that one cannot buy things from a vendor while dead?

 

Not speaking in 'Im a special person and expect special treatment' would help.

 

And you seem to have chosen not to complete this mission and either wait or give up of your own free will. All your post says is that you believe that you are entitled to complete the Outlaws Den part of this mission without having to challenge your brain as to how to do it.

 

Many people have already said that they have completed this part of the quest yet you state that it is impossible. They've already showed you that you are wrong. Simply you don't want to work it out, in the same way that I won't work it out by grouping.

[mothear]

Everyone has an opinion....

 

You will have noted that I had already realised my error and edited my post before you posted and yes everyone has an opinion which is why I wrote what I did. Your opinion and those that share it are no more right than those people who disagree with you.

Edited November 17, 2012 by mothear

[JidiJedi]

So far this has been a non issue at Outlaw den hon my server. Everyone more or less leaves each other alone while they go talk to the Jawa.

[Arkillon]

Zenod, the crazy ****er

[mobow]

I didnt like the fact that there was a group of Imp players hitting everyone that came near the jawa. It seems to be a real nice ambush spot for griefers right now.

[HuricaneONE]

You mean like the way they make pvpers PvE to get him?

 

Loool /win

[LordArtemis]

...No, it can't.

 

Id be interested in you sharing why you believe the argument that one could be carried through a PVP zone cant be made....

 

And do me a favor...please dont copy and paste a "you just cant" statement like you did the first time. Id be willing to bet dollars for donuts were not in kindergarden here.

 

Just let me know when your ready. Ill be around for a while.

 

On a side note...has any PVP player indicated whether or not they would be against the vendor being moved outside of the PVP zone yet? I cant find any statements to that end.

 

Id like to know if the PVP players would be against such a move.

Edited November 17, 2012 by LordArtemis

[SootyTX]

Come on guys. It's a game. No one will control TOD for long anyway, and there will be plenty of opportunity for those who loathe PVP to sneak in there and get what they need.

 

As for The Ebon Hawk, a few of us are going to use this opportunity to pull the whole community together in a massive RP-PVP event. I think it could be awesome.

 

This is really a cool aspect of the HK-51 quest. Here's to hoping it goes live with this requirement in it!

 

All my characters are on Ebon Hawk - please let me know when you are done with your 'event' so I can go get what I need from there without being subject to YOUR definition of fun.

 

Better yet...why not take your PvP event to a bloddy PvP server. I rolled on Shien (moved to Ebon Hawk) specifically to avoid this kind of interference.

[HelinCarnate]

All my characters are on Ebon Hawk - please let me know when you are done with your 'event' so I can go get what I need from there without being subject to YOUR definition of fun.

 

Better yet...why not take your PvP event to a bloddy PvP server. I rolled on Shien (moved to Ebon Hawk) specifically to avoid this kind of interference.

 

If you don't like that kind of interference, you are not forced to go there.

[SootyTX]

If you don't like that kind of interference, you are not forced to go there.

 

Do you even know what this thread is about? If I want to get PvE content (HK-51) that is a major part of the current release (you know, it being named after him and all) then yes, I do need to go there.

 

Now please get back in your box, ok?

[Nasja]

Strange, the very same thing occured in Star Wars Galaxies where, in order to get a lightsaber schematic you had to go to Restuss (a pvp zone) and wait for the emperors hand to spawn and loot the schematic which was available to all when the hand was killed and you contributed in the kill.

 

Strange because swtor stayed away from swg as far as possible but somehow they found something they probably liked in that game. Can we get all the elements they had in that game in this game as well please?! Yeah you probably wouldn't like that would you Bioware.

 

Anyway, most of the time devs do this kind of thing because they want to make it a challenge to get something you are after. If you just get HK after doing a simple quest then thats too easy and everyone would allready have the companion. Now people put effort in it.

 

However, is this getting into outlaws den, buying some parts and then getting out a challenge or really an annoyance or can it be mentioned that its downright impossible for the next few weeks on most servers? Opinions may differ on that subject but in any case, 80+ pages tells us there is a cause for concern.

 

Down to the point, this part of content is content for who exactly? Is putting vendors in Outlaws Den good content for pvp-ers because people will go in there and there would be a lot of pvp in there the coming weeks? Or is it good content for the gankers which bioware made the decision they would be subscribers = money to them? Or is it good content to pve-ers who may or may not want to get the HK unit and Bioware would believe they would group up with pvp-ers to get the items they want and may be encouraged to do more pvp?

 

To me Bioware need to ask themselves if putting vendors in Outlaws Den was business wise a good or a bad idea. The coming weeks will tell the results. If subscriber numbers will go down, then they have made a mistake, if they go up... well, then like it or not, they have done the right thing. Last thing you need to realize is that bioware never cares about you, they only thing they care about is their own business, their own money. More money, good business, less money... they have done something wrong.

[arunav]

I am on a PVE server and had no trouble getting the HK parts. The whole thing took roughly 4-5 minutes, once in the area.

 

I was standing beside several opposite faction characters at the vendor, no doubt purchasing the HK part and scanner.

 

To those who are being harassed somehow, try finishing the quest at a different time. Better yet, make an Ops group before entering and see what happens.

 

Some people will whine about almost anything....

[Soluss]

Do you even know what this thread is about? If I want to get PvE content (HK-51) that is a major part of the current release (you know, it being named after him and all) then yes, I do need to go there.

 

Now please get back in your box, ok?

 

The content is PVE and PVP content. So, you have to do what the quest requires. Whining on the forums isnt going to get it mailed to you. Suck it up or dont do it.

[MariaD]

If you add content that isn't fun or enjoyable for 100% of the player base you have failed as a designer.

 

This is very far from truth. MMO designers go for "large minorities" of players with each piece of content. If they design something that 10% of players will do (Nightmare Mode raiding) they are okay with it. If they design something 30-40% of players will do, it's considered "widely popular".

 

Nothing is in this game is for everybody. Not everybody does class stories. Not everyone does warzones. Space missions? That's more like 10% of people past the first few times people try them.

 

There is a lot on research about popularity of things. Things that many people like are lukewarm and don't create passions. But things that are for minorities - well, those minorities become passionate.

[MariaD]

You made your choice of your own free will and readily accept the consequences of that choice.

 

I am having the option of waiting forced down my throat at the point of a lightsaber

 

It is interesting that you feel so very coerced. It means you really want to play that content, and to play it just now, and to play it in the ways you personally want. So much so that not having it available feels as bad as a threat. Fascinating.

 

There are several other options, besides waiting, for example:

1 - Get a group (pug or friends) to protect you

2 - Play at a low-pop time, like 7am

3 - Pay ransom to the gankers (our server had pubs charging passage)

4 - Wait for a fresh instance to pop in a peak population time (like Instance 3 at 8pm) and immediately transfer to it before gankers arrive

 

But many people still feel quite coerced. I find it very interesting.

Edited November 17, 2012 by MariaD
forgot a thought

[Snapperlicious]

Again, much like they force people who do not want to pve to pve? or how they force someone who is strictly republic to roll an imperial and visa versa? I really can't wrap my head around what is so gamebreaking about having to spend 5 minutes in a pvp zone... If you want the HK unit just do it and be done with it, if not then do whatever you were doing before yesterday. With so much in the game this is what you choose to complain about? BTW the amount of time it took some of you to type out your complaints or read others. you could have had the hk-transistor by now and been done with it.

 

The big difference is that PVP'ers know they will have to PVE at some point in the game right from the beginning, and are willing to play the game in spite of that. PVE'ers do not have this same requirement.

 

Personally, I don't think this is a big deal as long as people don't camp the vendors, but I thought the above point was valid to those that have an issue with it.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Snapperlicious

[WarheartZero]

WOW, unbelievable reading this thread. Gamers are dead lol.

 

A quest has a challenge that make you go out of your comfort zone and play all the aspects of the game PvP & PvE.... oh the agony of it all!

If you don't like it go play farmville then!..This is a game. Its supposed to have a challenge. Don't whine like a little kid cause its not handed to you. Unbelievable how many wanna-be gamers there are!

 

I'm all into PvE but the PvE people are the biggest whiners! It forces the PvP people to do a HM FP and I barely hear them complaining. So sorry if PvP is more difficult...welcome to gaming...where there's obstacles to overcome.

[Grammarye]

It is interesting that you feel so very coerced. It means you really want to play that content, and to play it just now, and to play it in the ways you personally want. So much so that not having it available feels as bad as a threat. Fascinating.

 

There are several other options, besides waiting, for example:

1 - Get a group (pug or friends) to protect you

2 - Play at a low-pop time, like 7am

3 - Pay ransom to the gankers (our server had pubs charging passage)

4 - Wait for a fresh instance to pop in a peak population time (like Instance 3 at 8pm) and immediately transfer to it before gankers arrive

 

But many people still feel quite coerced. I find it very interesting.

Disclaimer: I have PvPed in many different games; I am not anti-PvP.

 

It tends to happen when people hand over money to be entertained. The options you describe are:

 

1) This requires active PvP players because frankly a group of PvEers aren't going to cut it if there's a professional ganking squad in the area. In practice, I can't think of any situation where a bunch of fed-up 'carebears' actually did win against a group harrassing them. It just feeds the fire.

2) This is rather akin to a launch queue - please play at a time not of your choosing. That is pretty much classic coercion.

3) I haven't got much sympathy for people extorting in the game over something so trivial. Go play EVE, it could do with some real pirates that actually ransom. It also encourages the behaviour, which is exactly what your targets don't want to do.

4) Almost identical to 2.

 

What you are missing is that the mindset of the player that signs up for the game is allowed to vary. There is no rule that states 'you must be prepared to PvP'. It's not EVE where undocking is consenting to getting shot at. TOR is very much marketed to a significant group of players who do not like conflict with other players. That attitude is not wrong or something to be 'sucked up'; it is simply different.

 

As for coercion in the mindset itself, well, if you study the psychology of online gaming, there are several archetypes for whom completing all content is very important. That's just a fact of life.

 

Analogies are terrible, but consider if you ran a cinema, but when movie-goers turned up at the time they paid for, they had a choice of running a gauntlet of people who would spray them with water or take money not to spray them with water, or coming back at a different time that they weren't planning on doing, or finding a bunch of other movie-goers to spray water back, when at no point had they intended to spray water at all. Without money changing hands, this is just awkward & possibly silly. With money changing hands, this is straying dangerously close to failing to make good on the transaction & provide the service as intended.

 

By comparison, a valid equivalent analogy would be that if there's a traffic jam on the way to the cinema, that's outside the cinema's control (e.g. your ISP died) and thus not relevant to the transaction. Equally if every cinema ever had always done this, it would be considered normal and thus either people would go, or not bother. What is upsetting people, I suspect, is that this is an introduction that changes the rules & sets a changed precendent subsequent to an investment (both monetary & emotional) as well as prior marketing.

 

It is small wonder that some feel it is inappropriate. You sets your player expectations, you takes your chances.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Grammarye

[Soluss]

WOW, unbelievable reading this thread. Gamers are dead lol.

 

A quest has a challenge that make you go out of your comfort zone and play all the aspects of the game PvP & PvE.... oh the agony of it all!

If you don't like it go play farmville then!..This is a game. Its supposed to have a challenge. Don't whine like a little kid cause its not handed to you. Unbelievable how many wanna-be gamers there are!

 

I'm all into PvE but the PvE people are the biggest whiners! It forces the PvP people to do a HM FP and I barely hear them complaining. So sorry if PvP is more difficult...welcome to gaming...where there's obstacles to overcome.

 

Hey man, if you cant just log in and click a couple buttons then its a job not a game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*caution sarcasm included*

[ScarletBlaze]

People have different styles of playing and bioware should have taken that into account.

 

Just because some of you enjoying pvp gives you no right to tell others to suck it and do it.

 

They pay for their game (and if you are posting you are paying) so they should be able to play their way. This name calling is childish and rude and hateful. Just because someone doesn't like something doesn't mean they should be subject to childish behavior some of you have exhibited on this forum.

 

The main problem is you keep telling them either suck it up or play at a diferent time. Maybe your schedule allows that but some of us have other responsibilitis and can not change our schedule nor should we.

 

If the pvp'rs that are constantly stating they are going to be camping the vendor wouldn't be stating what they were doing and yes doing (some have actually done that( then maybe some players wouldn't have any trouble. But anytime some intentionally ganks you from getting your item that takes the fun out of the game.

 

Maybe you need to look at it that way instead of being so flippant and telling them to suck it or change their time of playing.

[Tonymitsu]

Id be interested in you sharing why you believe the argument that one could be carried through a PVP zone cant be made....

 

And do me a favor...please dont copy and paste a "you just cant" statement like you did the first time. Id be willing to bet dollars for donuts were not in kindergarden here.

 

Just let me know when your ready. Ill be around for a while.

 

On a side note...has any PVP player indicated whether or not they would be against the vendor being moved outside of the PVP zone yet? I cant find any statements to that end.

 

Id like to know if the PVP players would be against such a move.

 

Fine. Since you asked nicely.

 

Expertise.

If you don't have any then you lose in PvP. Explaining exactly why this is by using the math involved in comparing stat ratios on gear, the difference in survivability, and general self-sufficiency is beyond the scope of this thread.

This is not an opinion. It is a well-documented fact. It is the reason expertise exists in the first place. The stat is working as intended.

 

Getting a friend, or two, or three, is not going to help you in this regard because players are not mindless NPC mobs and do not have a threat meter and are not required to follow scripted commands.

Any player with a brain that functions on the level required to play this game is going to ignore a target it can't kill in favor of one that it can... usually starting with the ones that aren't fighting back. There is nothing your friends can do to prevent this.

Bear in mind no part of this explanation involves three of you against one griefer. They are traveling in packs of a dozen or more right now. Wading into that is going to get you killed. I tried.

 

If you are for some reason unwilling or unable to accept these facts then the discussion is pretty much over. There is nothing I can do to explain it to you any clearer.

[LordArtemis]

Fine. Since you asked nicely.

 

Expertise.

If you don't have any then you lose in PvP. Explaining exactly why this is by using the math involved in comparing stat ratios on gear, the difference in survivability, and general self-sufficiency is beyond the scope of this thread.

This is not an opinion. It is a well-documented fact. It is the reason expertise exists in the first place. The stat is working as intended.

 

Getting a friend, or two, or three, is not going to help you in this regard because players are not mindless NPC mobs and do not have a threat meter and are not required to follow scripted commands.

Any player with a brain that functions on the level required to play this game is going to ignore a target it can't kill in favor of one that it can... usually starting with the ones that aren't fighting back. There is nothing your friends can do to prevent this.

Bear in mind no part of this explanation involves three of you against one griefer. They are traveling in packs of a dozen or more right now. Wading into that is going to get you killed. I tried.

 

If you are for some reason unwilling or unable to accept these facts then the discussion is pretty much over. There is nothing I can do to explain it to you any clearer.

 

No, I think you will find if you look at my post history that I am capable of both discussing my opinion and admitting that I am not an all perfect machine created by kaleds on the planet skaro to run around with daleks and cause mahem...

 

So what Im getting from your contention is that in PVP you believe you will be targeted and can not defend yourself even if you are surrounded by those that can protect you due to the lack of expertise.

 

Before I continue this line, if your willing to discuss it, is that correct?

[WarheartZero]

People have different styles of playing and bioware should have taken that into account.

 

Just because some of you enjoying pvp gives you no right to tell others to suck it and do it.

 

They pay for their game (and if you are posting you are paying) so they should be able to play their way. This name calling is childish and rude and hateful. Just because someone doesn't like something doesn't mean they should be subject to childish behavior some of you have exhibited on this forum.

 

The main problem is you keep telling them either suck it up or play at a diferent time. Maybe your schedule allows that but some of us have other responsibilitis and can not change our schedule nor should we.

 

If the pvp'rs that are constantly stating they are going to be camping the vendor wouldn't be stating what they were doing and yes doing (some have actually done that( then maybe some players wouldn't have any trouble. But anytime some intentionally ganks you from getting your item that takes the fun out of the game.

 

Maybe you need to look at it that way instead of being so flippant and telling them to suck it or change their time of playing.

 

"They pay for their game (and if you are posting you are paying) so they should be able to play their way."

 

That statement is incorrect. You are playing within a frame that the developer made. It was advertised, described and reviewed. this attitude is why there are problems. Its not your game. Just cause you rent a house doesn't mean you can tear it down and rebuild it. You can make small additions w/permission/feedback. You are a sub. You are renting their servers and what they designed the game to be. If you don't like it, you move along to find your niche in another game.