HK-51 Quest & its PVP requirement.

[Khevar]

Two solutions:

 

1. Ask for others in gen for help as you're being blocked by the opposite faction. It doesn't matter if you have no expertise gear, if there are enough of you, you'll be safe.

 

2. Try later when fewer people are on.

 

Edit: Story time. I was on Ilum doing dailies. My toon was unintentionally flagged for PvP (had just run a flashpoint and buffing/healing another player flagged me as well).

 

Some operatives were stealthed in the base, stunning flagged players right as they tried to pick up quests or turn them in.

 

Solution: "Ilum main base under attack please help" in gen chat. Pubs arrived from near and far and drive back the imperials.

 

End result: Base was safe.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Khevar

[Quantum]

So you don't mind world PVP, but you're making this thread on behalf of the people who hate it so much they don't want to set foot in one area for a brief amount of time, for a one-time quest?

How could anyone really be that much averse to something?

 

(I'm guessing this is a way of plugging the outlaw's den to the people who either ignored it or didn't know it existed. I think it's pretty clear that they expected everyone to be using it at launch. The whole HK thing seems like an attempt to make people more well-rounded players.)

 

Think of it as a Stanford Prison Experiment for a digital age. People under go psychological changes in behavior when assuming roles, for the PvP crowd that is doing the ganking, they are taking pleasure not at the combat but the disruption they are causing others. They won't admit it usually but when facing a unskilled, under equipped opponent there's no other real answer, they simply get off on the feel of control they have over the other person and look for more creative ways to increase that control. It doesn't matter that they might be good, caring, and honest people outside the game, the role they assume in the game overtakes their typical nature.

 

The people on the other side, in the PvE crowd feel a sense of oppression and belittling and eventually lose their ability to enjoy the game. The fact that developers design these types of events on PvE servers where people go to avoid this situation is unethical, immoral, and in poor taste; this is a concept that has been proven psychologically unhealthy time and time again. It's not always about being for or against PvP there are solid ethical considerations to be taken into account.

 

Structured PvP is far more healthy for people, there is a defined goal, rules, and restrictions the assumed roles have well established boundaries. PvP Servers are healthier for people, because there is a reasonable expectation of having to engage in this type of play style and the environmental rules cater to those who already have the predisposition necessary to deal with it. On PvE servers where many don't have the disposition, mentality or desire to PvP using a carrot on a stick to lure people into a PvP situation in order to obtain a reward that is either of great value or perceived to be valuable can depending on the person border on psychological torture.

 

It's easy to say "It's a game don't take it so seriously!" but once we assume our respective roles we may not be able to not take it seriously, the human mind doesn't always work that way.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Quantum

[Monthigos]

Boy I never realized before I started replying like this how often the same nonsense gets repeated over and over.

I'm starting to lose track of my original replies to quote.

 

I work for a living too, overtime every week. I have two kids, a wife and a dog. You're telling me you don't have 20 minutes to log in during off-peak hours to do this?

[Tonymitsu]

That wasn't my experience. That being said, I've played on a PvP server before and I'll tell you one thing: PvPers have a notoriously short attention span. The quest chain takes some time...go to another planet and look for another part and by the time you are done the camper will be gone. Or better yet, grab a group of people since there are so many people trying to do this right now. <snip>

 

Bioware? Take note here please.

The proposed solution by the community is for me to not play your game right now.

Are we starting to see the problem yet?

Threatening to quit over a slight inconvenience because someone can't stand dying to another player or not being able to do what the want when they want it is just silly. This is epic level, end game content. It's not supposed to be a walk in the park. That being said I still managed to do the whole quest in one sitting.

Wrong. We are complaining about the percentage of players who are actively campaigning to prevent us from achieving end game content for no reason other than lulz.

You don't get valor for this, you don't earn commendations, you don't get any reward.

Please feel free to define this in terms that does not make it griefing.

This is too fun.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Tonymitsu

[Birna]

Here was my oh-so-traumatizing PvP experience:

 

Me and three friends went to the zone.

We saw one other person at the vendor.

He complained about being poor.

I said I felt bad for him.

We left.

 

The horror!

[Tonymitsu]

I work for a living too, overtime every week. I have two kids, a wife and a dog. You're telling me you don't have 20 minutes to log in during off-peak hours to do this?

 

I believe I said something along those lines.

And even if I could find the time, that's not the point.

 

The fact that I have to consider it should be more than enough indication that there is a problem.

[Monthigos]

This is too fun.

 

Well I see you've made up your mind, so I won't bother reiterating my posts either. Have fun complaining about the quest on the forums. I'll be in game enjoying HK-51.

[AshlaBoga]

I believe I said something along those lines.

And even if I could find the time, that's not the point.

 

The fact that I have to consider it should be more than enough indication that there is a problem.

 

I take it this is your first mmo?

[Tonymitsu]

Well I see you've made up your mind, so I won't bother reiterating my posts either. Have fun complaining about the quest on the forums. I'll be in game enjoying HK-51.

 

I hope that you do.

I like it when other people have nice things.

 

/target BioWare, /hint

[Khevar]

...

 

Is this argument being made from a moralistic ivory tower?

 

...

Hmmmm.

...

 

The fact that I have to consider it should be more than enough indication that there is a problem.

[Tonymitsu]

I take it this is your first mmo?

 

Seventh, actually. Forgive me, but I don't see the relevance.

[Tonymitsu]

Hmmmm.

 

Actually I was referring to being forced to try and log in during off hours to do the mission.

The "ivory tower" bit was in response to people not actually having been victims of ganking but just taking a moral stance, which I have been, and thus am not.

 

But thank you for trying to take things out of context

[Khevar]

Actually I was referring to being forced to try and log in during off hours to do the mission.

The "ivory tower" bit was in response to people not actually having been victims of ganking but just taking a moral stance, which I have been, and thus am not.

 

But thank you for trying to take things out of context

I notice you conveniently ignored solution #1, which is to get help from others.

 

Also, did you read my witty story of a time I actually tried that and it worked? Zounds!!

 

Edit: I realize I'm being a bit snarky, and I'm sure that isn't going to help sway your opinion. It's just, I'm a PvE player. I don't like PvP. I tried it for a while, didn't like it, stopped.

 

And yet, if I were repeatedly ganked while trying to do this quest (I wasn't) I feel that I could solve it. It wouldn't ruin my gameplay experience. I wish you felt the same way.

 

Edit Edit: I also appreciate the fact this quest crosses all areas of the game. There was an entire thread devoted to solo players complaining because they had to do HM FPs and never wanted to do group content. It's a matter of perspective. This is an epic quest, you have to do a ton of hard stuff to do it. This is one aspect of it.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Khevar

[Tonymitsu]

I notice you conveniently ignored solution #1, which is to get help from others.

 

Also, did you read my witty story of a time I actually tried that and it worked? Zounds!!

 

While this is a fine thought it is far from guaranteed to work.

Because I can also recite a witty story of the time I did ask for help and a group of people not geared for PvP did also show up as a result of having the same problem I am having.

I'll spare you the details but the moral of that story is that "The side without expertise loses, even in large numbers."

 

EDIT: and I have somewhere else I have to be at the moment. Giving up Outlaw's Den for the night.

If I don't reply to you again tonight it's not because I don't love you, but rather because I'm just not home. But I look forward to quoting more of my responses to repeated questions tomorrow.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Tonymitsu

[Gurgintius]

Uhg...

 

Why is it that no matter what BioWare does, there is an army of people who have to complain about it?

 

This is the way BioWare chose to release this new companion. If you don't like it, don't get it. But why come out here to these forums and complain about it? It's not like the software is bugged to the point HK-51 is not obtainable. They just didn't deploy it in the manner which some agree with. Too bad for you. There are always going to be parts of a game that people are not going to like. But really, we are asking for the programmers to change something purely because some people don't like it.

 

Now, I hope you have a great time playing the game you want to play it. My HK-51 and I will have a good time playing the way I like to play it.

[Tonymitsu]

Edit Edit: I also appreciate the fact this quest crosses all areas of the game. There was an entire thread devoted to solo players complaining because they had to do HM FPs and never wanted to do group content. It's a matter of perspective. This is an epic quest, you have to do a ton of hard stuff to do it. This is one aspect of it.

 

Okay this I had to touch on before I turned the monitor off.

 

Just to say that I do appreciate the mission for the ideals behind it, and the intent which you described is not a bad idea.

 

The execution however, as we have seen, has been nothing but a nightmare, due in no small part to people who a) enjoy killing people for the lulz, and/or b) don't want others to have nice things.

 

My proposed solution (cleverly disguised in the "letter") was to change it so you could excavate this part like you can for all the others.

I wouldn't care nearly as much if that was the case, and that would actually be kind of fun. And at least that way they would have to hunt me down to kill me.

 

This ain't what's goin' down. You MUST buy this from the vendor. The griefers don't even have to look for you. You go to them.

 

This (and specifically only this) is what needs to change.

[chuixupu]

Personally I am fine with this. I'm not really a pvp'er in this game (haven't done a single WZ) but I honestly like the adrenaline rush of being in a situation where I know I could be attacked by other players as long as I'm expecting it as part of what needs to be done. There are times in life where you have to step out of your comfort zone to get something you want. It's OK for games to do it too, IMO. Also I've come to expect it as WoW always had some forced PVP event at some point as well, a lot more daunting than this one o.O (and yes, people continue to complain about it too) Edited November 16, 2012 by chuixupu

[Zombull]

Bad form, BioWare. You give us the option to choose whether to PvP and then you do not respect those choices?

 

Bad form.

[WillCaedes]

I'm a raider, y'know a PVE'r? I have absolutely no Expertise, and no care whatsoever for PvP concepts. So when I try to get my first piece of HK-51 from Outlaws Den, I'm getting ganked by 10+ 'pubs. This isn't enjoyable, this isn't fun (to me) and I thought I joined a PVE server for a PVE Experience? If I wanted to be ganked by a bunch of die-hard PVP'rs I woulda joined a PvP server.

 

 

Good going Bioware. Way to hold PVE'rs back from one of your content releases. And you WONDER why your Subs plummet so much.

[TaafeMJ]

Try getting the other pieces first. They'll get bored, or some Imps will gang up and destroy them.

[WillCaedes]

Try getting the other pieces first. They'll get bored, or some Imps will gang up and destroy them.

 

Meh, might as well. Nothing better to do lol.

[olie-flight]

What server are u on? on my server the imps and pubs have a understanding and dont really mess with each other for this quest line at all. Its a live and let live attitude

[WillCaedes]

What server are u on? on my server the imps and pubs have a understanding and dont really mess with each other for this quest line at all. Its a live and let live attitude

 

Jedi Covenant. A PVE server of all things. Seriously this is getting out of hand.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Hmmmm. That's funny. I had no problems getting it and there were two groups of Pubs and Imps there that were red to me. They left me alone and I left them alone.

[Treworthy]

That makes no sense. You're not forced into PvP. It's a choice. You want HK-51, then you need to go to a PvP area.

 

That's like complaining that you want to gain Valor, but you don't want to be flagged for PvP since you didn't roll on a PvP server (or you want the WH relics which were the BiS for PvE content). Guess what? You have a choice. To get HK-51 you'll need to enter a pvp zone for < 30 minutes. For WH Relics, you'll need to pvp for much longer. The choice is still yours. No one is forcing you to PvP.

 

Wait- you're saying that Bioware forcing me to PvP to get PvE items is exactly the same as someone who wants a PvP rank is forced to do PvP? Do you realize that makes absolutely no sense.

 

Let's look at that for a second. I like to role-play, and I like to PvE. Now, in order to PvE to the best of my ability and not be a detriment to my team, I need the best items possible. So that means I need to run PvP so much that my eyes bleed, for relics and weapons. And you're saying it's a choice.

 

Bull.

 

I don't like to PvP. It ruins the game for me. So when Bioware puts Best In Slot PvE items that are only obtainable through PvP, it ruins the enjoyment of my game. Not going after these items is like remaining in green gear and telling everyone else to suck it up. Now they put an item for a purely Role Play companion into a PvP area. Yeah, it pisses me off.

 

Since you don't seem capable of understanding, let's put it this way. What do you really hate about the game. Maybe you love PvP but hate Role Play. Ok, great. I think Bioware should make the top three PvP items available to you only after you role play 300 hours. No quests, no fighting, no puzzles. You have to sit at your computer for 300 hours and actively participate in every RP situation you can find. And if the other people with whom you RP don't think it's good enough, you only get partial credit.

 

We'll see how long it takes for you to complain about that.

 

This is Bioware's heavy-handed attempt to force people to PvP and I don't like it. It really sucks and they should change it now. But at the least I don't want to hear idiotic statements like "It's your choice". Pfft.