Jorojus Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) Yep with cross servers never happening I agree that proper matchmaking will never be possible. That and with the dwindling server populations I don't think that any server could survive another split in queues. /thread. Based to the rock, paper, scissor (tank, healer, dps for those who don't understand) format of this game. If you remove pre-mades you get so many random game compositions in wich tanks and healers would be worthless, because there is no role check system to que for normal warzones and the reason why there is no such system in this game is because the population isn't big enough to support it. in wich there is a high chance that after a while nobody will roll a tank or a healer wich leaves us with dps only. And that is because so many people just don't get how the mechanics in an "m multiplayer orpg" work. (especially PVP only players). The only solution to exclude the randomness that would occur at this very moment with a solo que only could be solved by cross server and a que with role check. Exactly the same way an operation que for PVE works, but doubled. The devs have stated over time that cross server will never happen (due to technical difficulties and game engine ? and I think that they fear that the current population can not support a solo que (just imagine how many people that play an mmo for the particular roles in the game will quit because of the randomness) And that is the only reason I think that they haven't implemented a role check in 8 man PVP normal warzones. There is just no one at Bioware out there that has the balls to confirm or deny this on the forums. Let alone even, give us the slightest explanation why this is been going on for 2 years now. Community interaction ftw PVP is awesome in this game, make a few little changes and it could be even better. Edited December 10, 2013 by Jorojus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marrius Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Who's fault is it that you spout some off the wall made up stat to troll other SWTOR players? LOL you hit the nail on the head. I've gone through a half a dozen of his posts and they are full of odd stats that he's obviously pulled out of his..... "Hey, hey there kiddies!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRaika Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Yep with cross servers never happening I agree that proper matchmaking will never be possible. That and with the dwindling server populations I don't think that any server could survive another split in queues. A decent matchmaking system (not saying perfect) does not require any further splitting of q's. It doesn't even need cross server (although that would be great). Mixed faction teams would really help out but they are not even needed. A decent matchmaking system tries to put a premade on each side but if it can't within a few minutes then it gives up and puts them wherever they fit. This may mean a few minute extra wait but it won't be a long wait and often it won't be any extra. Sure there will be great premades on one side and crappy on the other at times but it will still be better. Without cross server and/or mixed faction teams then there will still be a lot of uneven matches but they will be less frequent than they are now at least. I prefer some improvement over none. Basic matchmaking like this should be very easy to implement as well. I really don't see a legitimate reason for a pvp'r to oppose this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marrius Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Here here! On a further note... I am reading the occational post where someone is claiming premades are not a problem but then they will say voip is a problem. Has anyone ever been in a pug that was using voip? .... Now how many premades have you been in that use voip? ( food for thought. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMan Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) My position is that premades are not a problem, neither is using voice chat. I concur that grouping and communication make the game more fun. I am dismayed however, that the fallout from that is a lot of unhappy solo players. It isn't an argument between pugs and premades, in fact most players are both. It is an appeal for better matches. Edited December 10, 2013 by MotorCityMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marrius Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 It isn't an argument between pugs and premades, in fact most players are both. It is an appeal for better matches. Actually this post IS about "premades ruining non-ranked WZ", hense that is the discussion/argument. Though I do support the idea for better matchmaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PloGreen Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I doubt bioware consider VoIP program's cheating. You don't need voip to do well in normal warzones. VoIP is a social tool, why would anyone have a problem with people being social? Ranked warzones and ops it becomes invaluable but normal warzones? No one needs to use VoIP to coordinate, in game chat and marking system does the job fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marrius Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I doubt bioware consider VoIP program's cheating. You don't need voip to do well in normal warzones. VoIP is a social tool, why would anyone have a problem with people being social? Ranked warzones and ops it becomes invaluable but normal warzones? No one needs to use VoIP to coordinate, in game chat and marking system does the job fine. Maybe you should read the TOS. VOIP is a third party program. If you need that clarified, alow me... 1st party = BW server 2nd party = client 3rd party = anything used to enhanse / change the game play. (VOIP) You are right VOIP is not needed to coordinate, but it makes coordination faster and that will affect the outcome of a WZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleshtaker Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 12 months ago you could say this about premades in normal they did in fact ruin a lot of pvp for casuals ( I myself run with a premade as often as possible) but for the last 6months premades are saving normal WZ not hindering them if it wasn't for friends playing in groups there wouldn't be any pops for anyone or at least make it a 1 pop per hour thing wich is not good for anyone I think at this stage in swtor life its time to accept that grps will be in normals butrest assured as soon as ESO or wildstar come out you wont see premades in wz you will find it hard to get any pop then you can enjoy your pug vs pug 1hr que time wait per game fun and then come back here asking why pvp Is dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorojus Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 12 months ago you could say this about premades in normal they did in fact ruin a lot of pvp for casuals ( I myself run with a premade as often as possible) but for the last 6months premades are saving normal WZ not hindering them if it wasn't for friends playing in groups there wouldn't be any pops for anyone or at least make it a 1 pop per hour thing wich is not good for anyone I think at this stage in swtor life its time to accept that grps will be in normals butrest assured as soon as ESO or wildstar come out you wont see premades in wz you will find it hard to get any pop then you can enjoy your pug vs pug 1hr que time wait per game fun and then come back here asking why pvp Is dead How are pre-mades saving warzones if you got two teams and only 1 team is running a pre-made ? Its just easy win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarvus Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 How are pre-mades saving warzones if you got two teams and only 1 team is running a pre-made ? Its just easy win. An outstanding point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 A decent matchmaking system (not saying perfect) does not require any further splitting of q's. It doesn't even need cross server (although that would be great). Mixed faction teams would really help out but they are not even needed. A decent matchmaking system tries to put a premade on each side but if it can't within a few minutes then it gives up and puts them wherever they fit. This may mean a few minute extra wait but it won't be a long wait and often it won't be any extra. Sure there will be great premades on one side and crappy on the other at times but it will still be better. Without cross server and/or mixed faction teams then there will still be a lot of uneven matches but they will be less frequent than they are now at least. I prefer some improvement over none. Basic matchmaking like this should be very easy to implement as well. I really don't see a legitimate reason for a pvp'r to oppose this. Matchmaking has been brought up too many times in the past in this very thread. Most of the players who hated premades with a passion were quite opposed too it. There's just not a healthy enough pool of players for one to properly work. A year ago it would have but now it would do just what you said, eventually I don't think it would make to great of a difference. The splitting of the queues thing is something I just said since it has been brought up here more than once but it wouldn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulzii Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 the queues will end up the same way AoC's pvp queues ended up: players took it upon themselves and just left when a premade was on the other side. Eventually, the premades had no one to play against, got bored and stopped queing as a group. eventually, premades in the regular queue died out.. (but so did pvp, but thats a whole different story there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzel Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 How is this still even an issue? You have groups of 8 well geared people against a team of random people who aren't even using chat to communicate. On top of that these little armies of sooper leet doods are using Macro Goblin and other such programs to cheat. Oh no wait, they just happen to hit all of their abilities that don't respect the GCD at once while running in circles and attacking at the same time. Ohhhhhh so skillful. Ohhhh I'm so impressed by your $29.99 hack. Just masterful... Whatever. We all know what's going on here. The only question is why aren't they doing anything about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 How is this still even an issue? You have groups of 8 well geared people against a team of random people who aren't even using chat to communicate. On top of that these little armies of sooper leet doods are using Macro Goblin and other such programs to cheat. Oh no wait, they just happen to hit all of their abilities that don't respect the GCD at once while running in circles and attacking at the same time. Ohhhhhh so skillful. Ohhhh I'm so impressed by your $29.99 hack. Just masterful... Whatever. We all know what's going on here. The only question is why aren't they doing anything about it? This is why you never see the devs post in the PvP forums. And I don't blame them when people think like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptFirelord Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 lol only thing killing regular warzones are the masses of bads. It really is sad how many people have no idea what the hell they're doing in these warzones.. not only does it spell out to you what to do just by listening... but you can just follow people around and get the jist of what the hell to do. Not to mention the heaps of people who have no idea how to play their class. It still shocks me how, at 55, people don't know what to do in PvP, let alone 10-54 warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anwg Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 How are pre-mades saving warzones if you got two teams and only 1 team is running a pre-made ? Its just easy win. Last night I was with a PUG (as far as I could tell) and we beat a double premade. You just have to know what you are doing and have decent teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) Last night I was with a PUG (as far as I could tell) and we beat a double premade. Sure you did. Edited December 10, 2013 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Sure you did. You make it sound like it's not in the realm of possibility. I've been with a group and a mix of pugs and have beaten guilds that have super queued. You just need your pugs to not be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorClown Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 It really is sad how many people have no idea what the hell they're doing in these warzones.. not only does it spell out to you what to do just by listening... but you can just follow people around and get the jist of what the hell to do. Not to mention the heaps of people who have no idea how to play their class. It still shocks me how, at 55, people don't know what to do in PvP, let alone 10-54 warzones. apparently u never had like 1year break from game or issue of having 8 high lvl characters ..easy to forget roation etc. especially when u come back and your skill are reseted for some reason i mean it will not justify retardness but lower performance for sure;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzel Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 You make it sound like it's not in the realm of possibility. I've been with a group and a mix of pugs and have beaten guilds that have super queued. You just need your pugs to not be bad. LOL, nobody believes this. Nobody at all. You can pretend all you want. But having eight people all queue together and giggle over on the Macro Goblin forums about how they are all so souper amaze bahlzz for clicking one button while they run in circles is killing PvP for everyone else. Oh no wait... you are so masterful that you can interrupt a channeled ability within a microsecond and heal and run in circles and attack all at the same time. All eight of you. Oh OK. Everyone else should just stop being so bad and learn their class. Oh OK. Yeah, everybody believes that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMan Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Last night I was with a PUG (as far as I could tell) and we beat a double premade. You just have to know what you are doing and have decent teammates. Cool. Well last night I went in my private with my girl friend, Mila Kunis, to Tanzania for some Duckling Dar Es Salaam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 LOL, nobody believes this. Nobody at all. You can pretend all you want. But having eight people all queue together and giggle over on the Macro Goblin forums about how they are all so souper amaze bahlzz for clicking one button while they run in circles is killing PvP for everyone else. Oh no wait... you are so masterful that you can interrupt a channeled ability within a microsecond and heal and run in circles and attack all at the same time. All eight of you. Oh OK. Everyone else should just stop being so bad and learn their class. Oh OK. Yeah, everybody believes that. Yes. EVERYONE hacks. Everyone cheats. Pugs just haven't caught on yet and that's why they are so bad. Macro goblin...Jesus tap dancing Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzel Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Yes. EVERYONE hacks. Everyone cheats. Pugs just haven't caught on yet and that's why they are so bad. Macro goblin...Jesus tap dancing Christ. Oh PUGs have caught on (see the 100+ pages of people saying so?). EA has caught on as well and just doesn't care. But let's quit pretending that it's something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) Oh PUGs have caught on (see the 100+ pages of people saying so?). EA has caught on as well and just doesn't care. But let's quit pretending that it's something else. Yeah like actual player skill. I can only think of two times I have ever heard of macros being used. One was an auto click for when stun bubbles were all the rage and the other being something similar for teams grabbing a huttball. Both not very common. But if you want to think that every premade is using some sort of macro for executing precise rotations and instant interrupts and what have you than go ahead. With the GCD being 1.5 seconds scripts aren't needed. Edited December 10, 2013 by cycao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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