Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Ren_simp]

Actually you are wrong and I am hoping someone knows where the dev post on this is so our 'friend' here can be educated.

Furthermore if someone knows where the mike morhaim interview is on what he calls cheating (pug stomping) I think this can shed some light on what is accepted and expected in MMO's in general.

 

Ren, I understand you like the way things are but you are not a majority on this issue. If it is not changed sadly you and your friends will have nobody left to pug stomp.

 

Lol mike from blizzard? You can group for pvp in wow?

 

See this is your misconception about people grouping for pvp we are the majority

Because the game is based around guilds and people grouping together to accomplish stuff in the game pvp or pve

 

The other thing you're wrong on is the fact that you assume premades only face pugs "pug stomping"

And as someone that groups for pvp daily I can tell you 7 out of ten games will be against another premade

You may not notice this if you don't participate in group play.

[LeonHawkeye]

Lol mike from blizzard? You can group for pvp in wow?

 

See this is your misconception about people grouping for pvp we are the majority

Because the game is based around guilds and people grouping together to accomplish stuff in the game pvp or pve

 

The other thing you're wrong on is the fact that you assume premades only face pugs "pug stomping"

And as someone that groups for pvp daily I can tell you 7 out of ten games will be against another premade

You may not notice this if you don't participate in group play.

 

Going to stop you right there and clear up two major misconceptions and clearly ignorant claims of yours.

1)Premades are undoubtedly the minority and most definitely not the majority. How and why you would claim this is quite baffling.

2)Premades do not in fact face other Premades most of the time. This problem is further exacerbated if your server is not one of the main PvP Hubs. This problem is not as noticeable in a major PvP Server, where the Premade competition is abundant but in any other server the problem is not only clear but completely out of control.

 

On a semi-related note, our current matchmaking system is so broken many players blatantly abuse it to "Win Trade" in 4v4 Arenas.

 

I am an avid PvPer and have run on multiple servers, including the two main US PvP Servers as well as indulged in both group play and solo play. Premade Vs Pug play is not competition nor does it have anything beneficial to offer for either end, in fact it most definitely repels more players than it attracts and/or benefits. Other games were quick to alleviate this abomination of a problem for good reason, but the problem here also lies in the lack of foresight of the development team.

 

Ranked play was not adequately developed and implemented. The upper tier of players, the Premades, have no real reason nor incentive to play Ranked and thus pour into the "Solo" queue. SWTOR PvP desperately needs: Cross Server function, Adequate Matchmaking, and perhaps even a forced Ranked Queue for teams of 4 or a segregation of PUG and Premade teams. With the implementation of Cross Server function, the revival of 8v8 Warzones would become feasible as well as offer a bolstered pool of PvPers in which to draw plenty of competition, alleviating the problem of increased queue times by the segregation for both PUGs and Premades.

Edited December 4, 2013 by LeonHawkeye

[UncelSam]

Going to stop you right there and clear up two major misconceptions and clearly ignorant claims of yours.

1)Premades are undoubtedly the minority and most definitely not the majority. How and why you would claim this is quite baffling.

2)Premades do not in fact face other Premades most of the time. This problem is further exacerbated if your server is not one of the main PvP Hubs. This problem is not as noticeable in a major PvP Server, where the Premade competition is abundant but in any other server the problem is not only clear but completely out of control.

 

On a semi-related note, our current matchmaking system is so broken many players blatantly abuse it to "Win Trade" in 4v4 Arenas.

 

I am an avid PvPer and have run on multiple servers, including the two main US PvP Servers as well as indulged in both group play and solo play. Premade Vs Pug play is not competition nor does it have anything beneficial to offer for either end, in fact it most definitely repels more players than it attracts and/or benefits. Other games were quick to alleviate this abomination of a problem for good reason, but the problem here also lies in the lack of foresight of the development team.

 

Ranked play was not adequately developed and implemented. The upper tier of players, the Premades, have no real reason nor incentive to play Ranked and thus pour into the "Solo" queue. SWTOR PvP desperately needs: Cross Server function, Adequate Matchmaking, and perhaps even a forced Ranked Queue for teams of 4 or a segregation of PUG and Premade teams. With the implementation of Cross Server function, the revival of 8v8 Warzones would become feasible as well as offer a bolstered pool of PvPers in which to draw plenty of competition, alleviating the problem of increased queue times by the segregation for both PUGs and Premades.

 

Premades are the majority of Groups in regular now. End of story.

 

How about premades going for premades instead for easy PUG stomping?

[PloGreen]

Premades are the majority of Groups in regular now. End of story.

 

How about premades going for premades instead for easy PUG stomping?

 

How about you stop necroing multiple dead threads about the same topic?

[UncelSam]

How about you stop necroing multiple dead threads about the same topic?

 

Why do you try to silance an urgent matter?

 

Are you a premade runner perhaps?

[PloGreen]

Why do you try to silance an urgent matter?

 

Are you a premade runner perhaps?

 

I do both if you must know. But what I can't stand is people spamming the same crap over and over again because they can't get what they want. You have done this in eight threads now. Metaphorically speaking - this is the equivalent of throwing all your toys out of the pram because you don't get the toy that you want. If you are going to complain and shamelessly bump your own opinion in a bid to give it a degree of legitimacy, you could at least stick to one thread and not clog the boards up with threads from 2012 all saying the same thing.

 

With all the time and effort you have taken to do this you could actually be getting good at the game.

 

No I don't support fragmenting the queues any further, and I do not give much of a damn if you get stomped to oblivion by solos or premades because quite honestly people like you over egg the pudding, and its the same hollow argument now as it was in 2012. Good day sir.

Edited December 4, 2013 by PloGreen

[Jadescythe]

Why do you try to silance an urgent matter?

 

Are you a premade runner perhaps?

 

What is so urgent? You got your solo queue, right? Isn't that the end all, be all answer that everyone in this thread wanted? If you CHOOSE to enter the queue with the potential for groups, you are accepting that groups will be there.

[HaLeX]

I have to agree with leon. It's gotten pretty bad, always was bad but now that the pvp population is so low its much more noticeable. I think the main reason people premade is they don't want to fight each other and they want to socialize in vent. But the effect its having is very bad for the community. Edited December 4, 2013 by HaLeX

[Marrius]

I do both if you must know. But what I can't stand is people spamming the same crap over and over again because they can't get what they want. You have done this in eight threads now. Metaphorically speaking - this is the equivalent of throwing all your toys out of the pram because you don't get the toy that you want. If you are going to complain and shamelessly bump your own opinion in a bid to give it a degree of legitimacy, you could at least stick to one thread and not clog the boards up with threads from 2012 all saying the same thing.

 

With all the time and effort you have taken to do this you could actually be getting good at the game.

 

No I don't support fragmenting the queues any further, and I do not give much of a damn if you get stomped to oblivion by solos or premades because quite honestly people like you over egg the pudding, and its the same hollow argument now as it was in 2012. Good day sir.

 

What I can't stand are bullies. If you disagree look up the definition: "a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people. "

 

You accomplish this in your pug stomping and you again further it when you try telling people to shut up when they are voicing concern over an uneven playing field.

 

P.S. As far as Ren's rediculus statements... Ren you were the one trying to tell us that all MMO's are this way. Morhaim,(the co of Blizzard ...and i bet you had to look him up) being an authority on mmos, clearly disagrees with you.

 

It is clear that those of you happy to bully really don't care about the game as you are singularly focused on your sole enjoyment of the game no matter at who's expense. I also suspect that in more even playing fields (other pvp mmo's) you were the first to whine because you couldn't beat someone with a bigger epeen. Because after all, everyone knows that at the core of a bully beats the heart of a coward.

 

Good day sir!

Edited December 4, 2013 by Marrius

[Ridickilis]

Premades are the majority of Groups in regular now. End of story.

 

How about premades going for premades instead for easy PUG stomping?

 

I'm unguilded and solo queue exclusively. I'm not having the troubles you're describing nor do I feel 'farmed'.

 

End of story.

[PloGreen]

What I can't stand are bullies. If you disagree look up the definition: "a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people. "

 

You accomplish this in your pug stomping and you again further it when you try telling people to shut up when they are voicing concern over an uneven playing field.

 

P.S. As far as Ren's rediculus statements... Ren you were the one trying to tell us that all MMO's are this way. Morhaim,(the co of Blizzard ...and i bet you had to look him up) being an authority on mmos, clearly disagrees with you.

 

It is clear that those of you happy to bully really don't care about the game as you are singularly focused on your sole enjoyment of the game no matter at who's expense. I also suspect that in more even playing fields (other pvp mmo's) you were the first to whine because you couldn't beat someone with a bigger epeen. Because after all, everyone knows that at the core of a bully beats the heart of a coward.

 

Good day sir!

 

I'm not a bully ty. If you think necroing 8 or 9 threads and repeating the same thing should be commended all the power to you. This is what is going on and I don't think it's ok. If you can't handle that opinion then I really dont care, doesnt change the facts of what he is doing or how i feel about whats he doing. But I'm certainly not a bully. This a computer game, you win you lose, you get whooped sometimes. Equating this to bullying or victimisation is frankly, completely ridiculous. But your more than welcome to that assumption.

 

After all winning games against pugs is what big bad bullies do isn't it? Oh wait..

[UncelSam]

I'm not a bully ty. If you think necroing 8 or 9 threads and repeating the same thing should be commended all the power to you. This is what is going on and I don't think it's ok. If you can't handle that opinion then I really dont care, doesnt change the facts of what he is doing or how i feel about whats he doing. But I'm certainly not a bully. This a computer game, you win you lose, you get whooped sometimes. Equating this to bullying or victimisation is frankly, completely ridiculous. But your more than welcome to that assumption.

 

After all winning games against pugs is what big bad bullies do isn't it? Oh wait..

 

You are probably a premade runner and therefor u want to save the current situ.

 

Others seek challange rather than easy kills in God Mode as premade, you dont seem to be that cathegory

[Zoom_VI]

Ugh just please. Wanna fix? Disable guild tags in warzones, all the premades will go away because they will all become four enemy players just like pugs are also enemy players. Can't tell if enemy is premade = greater confidence and willingness to attempt to win instead of giving up.

[cycao]

I've been gone for a minute. I'm glad this is still a hot topic around here.

[Jadescythe]

I've been gone for a minute. I'm glad this is still a hot topic around here.

 

It really isn't. There hasn't been one of these threads in weeks. They all just got necro'd by one fool who I reported for spam

[cycao]

It really isn't. There hasn't been one of these threads in weeks. They all just got necro'd by one fool who I reported for spam

 

So I see.

[Marrius]

I'm unguilded and solo queue exclusively. I'm not having the troubles you're describing nor do I feel 'farmed'.

 

End of story.

 

What server are you on? How long have you played? Were you in a guild b4 that assisted you gearing up? these are just a few factors. There are far more people with a continued and ongoing story of beiung farmed. Needless to say the only story that warants ending is yours.

 

Or maybe you are some kind of pvp prodigy. If thats the case share your techniques. If not you bring nothing to the table here so why even post unless your claims are simply rubbish and you are just trying to invalidate the legitimate claims of people being bullied because you in fact are one of the culprits.

[Marrius]

I'm not a bully ty. If you think necroing 8 or 9 threads and repeating the same thing should be commended all the power to you. This is what is going on and I don't think it's ok. If you can't handle that opinion then I really dont care, doesnt change the facts of what he is doing or how i feel about whats he doing. But I'm certainly not a bully. This a computer game, you win you lose, you get whooped sometimes. Equating this to bullying or victimisation is frankly, completely ridiculous. But your more than welcome to that assumption.

 

After all winning games against pugs is what big bad bullies do isn't it? Oh wait..

 

Passive agression is also a form of bullying as you are trying to take advantage of someone's weakness,

As far as this just being a game... so is american football, just ask Richie Incognito. And as for the game being a computer game, there has been enough internet bullying that it is now illegal in most states.

 

The fact is I have had to deal with people like you (maybe not as bad) in this game and some of them have taken it far enough to warrant an account suspension from BW. What I am saying here is, bullying is a slippery slope so be careful how you approach people with your overbearing ways because your ego is a terrible way to try and govern you poor behaviour.

 

That being said. I will reitterate with a question... Why is playing on an even playing field such a bad thing?

[Marrius]

It really isn't. There hasn't been one of these threads in weeks. They all just got necro'd by one fool who I reported for spam

 

LOL! Who is the fool here? You reported someone because they posted an issue that already has a valid thread rather than starting a new thread? You're funny.

 

P.S. I love how the word 'necro'd' is used to try and make posting, on an existing thread, something bad.

 

Look sport, pug stomping is valid enough to warrant over 600 pages of complaints. By now BW knows that the community is not happy. The fact that this is the largest thread further substantiates this claim. Will they respond and risk alienating their pug stomper population, probably not. But you can bet they will be addressing it one way or another. Till then I, and many others, am not going to shut up about this.

We pay to have fun in this game. the difference between us and those who seek to bully/pugstomp is that we choose to have our fun in a fair and non-persecutive way, the bullies' fun is singulary at the expense of others. Our way will help build the community, the bullies' way is destroying the community.

 

So which are you?

[Jadescythe]

LOL! Who is the fool here? You reported someone because they posted an issue that already has a valid thread rather than starting a new thread? You're funny.

 

P.S. I love how the word 'necro'd' is used to try and make posting, on an existing thread, something bad.

 

Look sport, pug stomping is valid enough to warrant over 600 pages of complaints. By now BW knows that the community is not happy. The fact that this is the largest thread further substantiates this claim. Will they respond and risk alienating their pug stomper population, probably not. But you can bet they will be addressing it one way or another. Till then I, and many others, am not going to shut up about this.

We pay to have fun in this game. the difference between us and those who seek to bully/pugstomp is that we choose to have our fun in a fair and non-persecutive way, the bullies' fun is singulary at the expense of others. Our way will help build the community, the bullies' way is destroying the community.

 

So which are you?

 

Ya, so he posted in not 1, but at least 10 different threads on the same topic, flooding the first page of the forum with the same topic. Not only is bumping dead threads with no constructive information against the rules of the forum, but covers up the other topics that other players feel are important. Had he posted in a thread with that topic or created a new thread with that topic I wouldn't complain. Deliberately posting "No information, GG Devs" in various ways in multiple threads is spamming the forum.

 

You do realize that this thread is tiny compared to the biggest threads ever on this forum, right? The same sex romance thread had to get restarted about 2-3 times from hitting the post limit. The vast majority of this thread is an argument between matchmaking or solo queue. They went with solo queue as most of the anti-premade proponents wanted and there are still complaints.

 

Perhaps it's hard to understand, but if I can queue solo in reg queue and keep up with them in a full PUG, everyone else can as well. If you are not capable of doing so, it is not the fault of the other team being good, it is your choice to not work harder and/or play more casually. Feel free to petition BW for matchmaking in reg queue as I have advocated all along and maybe you'll get matched up against competition equal to your skill level.

 

TL;DR People arguing the same thing you did wanted solo queue, they got it, now they're still mad. Should have added matchmaking to all queues.

[MidichIorian]

What server are you on? How long have you played? Were you in a guild b4 that assisted you gearing up? these are just a few factors. There are far more people with a continued and ongoing story of beiung farmed. Needless to say the only story that warants ending is yours.

 

Or maybe you are some kind of pvp prodigy. If thats the case share your techniques. If not you bring nothing to the table here so why even post unless your claims are simply rubbish and you are just trying to invalidate the legitimate claims of people being bullied because you in fact are one of the culprits.

I've been in the same situation as the guy you quoted and I got full min/maxed Obroan (and previous tiers) and a couple of other sets on other chars by solo'ing 100 % of my games (been on shadlowands, Bastion, POT5, TOFN and now TRE). It wasnt until a couple of days ago that I decided to hook up with a guild.

 

Hence, I'm off the opinion that the premade complaint is exaggerated. I have been in more games where team mates have blamed an opposing premade than I've been in games against premades. "Premade" seems to be the go-to excuse whenever people suck, regardless of there actually being a premade on the other side.

 

That said, I don't think pugs should have to face premades when there's room for proper matchmaking. Giving the queue 1-2 minutes extra to find a more suiting match would have been to prefer. atleast during the prime-time hours.

Edited December 5, 2013 by MidichIorian

[Marrius]

Ya, so he posted in not 1, but at least 10 different threads on the same topic, flooding the first page of the forum with the same topic. Not only is bumping dead threads with no constructive information against the rules of the forum, but covers up the other topics that other players feel are important. Had he posted in a thread with that topic or created a new thread with that topic I wouldn't complain. Deliberately posting "No information, GG Devs" in various ways in multiple threads is spamming the forum.

 

You do realize that this thread is tiny compared to the biggest threads ever on this forum, right? The same sex romance thread had to get restarted about 2-3 times from hitting the post limit. The vast majority of this thread is an argument between matchmaking or solo queue. They went with solo queue as most of the anti-premade proponents wanted and there are still complaints.

 

Perhaps it's hard to understand, but if I can queue solo in reg queue and keep up with them in a full PUG, everyone else can as well. If you are not capable of doing so, it is not the fault of the other team being good, it is your choice to not work harder and/or play more casually. Feel free to petition BW for matchmaking in reg queue as I have advocated all along and maybe you'll get matched up against competition equal to your skill level.

 

TL;DR People arguing the same thing you did wanted solo queue, they got it, now they're still mad. Should have added matchmaking to all queues.

 

To get to a level you are describing takes time. Time that many of us employed folks don't have. maybe if BW offered pvp mods on the cartel market it would lend to help balance the playing field. But then again I am sure some of you would balk at this because your only accomplishments are through the 8-10 hours a day you spend playing this game and you don't want to give up this singular sense of self worth.

 

Again this is a game and there is no reason why everyone cannot enjoy being on a winning pug at least 40% of the time. If you think people are going to continue paying to play a game where they are always on the losing side then you are mistaken and in the end you will have either a very low population to play with or no game at all.

 

P.S. perhapse part of the solution would be to add x-server wz's and form ques in the same fashion as FP are where a set number of each class fill required criteria for a wz to start. This would be particularly useful in the new arena wz's.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Marrius

[Marrius]

I've been in the same situation as the guy you quoted and I got full min/maxed Obroan (and previous tiers) and a couple of other sets on other chars by solo'ing 100 % of my games (been on shadlowands, Bastion, POT5, TOFN and now TRE). It wasnt until a couple of days ago that I decided to hook up with a guild.

 

Hence, I'm off the opinion that the premade complaint is exaggerated. I have been in more games where team mates have blamed an opposing premade than I've been in games against premades. "Premade" seems to be the go-to excuse whenever people suck, regardless of there actually being a premade on the other side.

 

That said, I don't think pugs should have to face premades when there's room for proper matchmaking. Giving the queue 1-2 minutes extra to find a more suiting match would have been to prefer. atleast during the prime-time hours.

 

You have a valid point. I too have been in pugs where members of my pug have accused the other team of being a premade. However most of us tell him to pipe down because we all know we just sucked. On the other hand it is quite evident when I get pugstomped. I myself have been in a couple of premades and I now refuse to join premades any more because it unbalances the game. A game I hope will be around for a long time.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Marrius

[Zunayson]

WHHYYYY

I thought this ting had died.

 

this thing's been necro'd more times than all the characters in Dragon Ball Z combined.

 

The intended way of playing doesnt seem to be too popular if you seen how many posts there is on this matter.

 

Things can only change to the better from here. We can have more balanced fights with alot more fun and chllange on an equal base.

 

Its not fun for me to lose because of bad teammates. Either I get to choose my team, or we introduce 1v1, which would be retardedly unbalanced.

 

Face it, MMOs are teambased and teambalanced; but a teambased game can only be competitive in a premade vs premade basis. All others are second-class and non-competitive.

 

You're trying to make rock, paper, scissors competitive.

 

To get to a level you are describing takes time. Time that many of us employed folks don't have. maybe if BW offered pvp mods on the cartel market it would lend to help balance the playing field. But then again I am sure some of you would balk at this because your only accomplishments are through the 8-10 hours a day you spend playing this game and you don't want to give up this singular sense of self worth.

 

Again this is a game and there is no reason why everyone cannot enjoy being on a winning pug at least 40% of the time. If you think people are going to continue paying to play a game where they are always on the losing side then you are mistaken and in the end you will have either a very low population to play with or no game at all.

 

P.S. perhapse part of the solution would be to add x-server wz's and form ques in the same fashion as FP are where a set number of each class fill required criteria for a wz to start. This would be particularly useful in the new arena wz's.

 

What a joke. I'm unemployed because I'm underage, but I only spend (usually less than) half the time you mentioned playing this game in total, and some of that is pve dailies for money.

 

The experience is long term - most people haven't almost daily played for 2.5 years. It's dedication not a grind.

 

It doesnt matter if you get cross server queues or not, when you get down to it, half the population loses and half wins. If you're a believer in the fact that bads deserve to lose until they get skilled (Gaming Darwinism), then they need to suck it up. If you're a believer in the fact that bads don't deserve to get stomped and pros do not deserve to win, then matchmaking.

 

When you analyze sports leagues, you see that its under Gaming Darwinism. The real world is not carebear. I understand this isnt the real world. But I hate carebear. I was bad, too. And I learned how to progress....

Edited December 5, 2013 by Zunayson

[Zunayson]

double post Edited December 5, 2013 by Zunayson