Angellis Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 This is an MMO. MMOs are about grouping with people. No one in all these pages has ever justified why a group of people shouldn't be allowed to play together just in case it might disadvantage solo players. Why? Because no justification is possible. Yesterday I was in a hypergate with my premade which I'd describe as well above average. With us was another premade. You could tell from their team comp and gear that they were just guildies or friends grouping together. Unfortunately they were pretty poor and got melted in seconds despite our best efforts to help. We ended up losing against a good bunch of reps. So yeah, premades ruin warzones! Bad ones anyway. Did we complain? Well, yeah no one likes to lose, but it happens. The other day in Civil War our same premade faced two premades. It was a very tough match and as it happens they capped their node a few seconds before we did, so mid was a stalemate which we never looked like winning although we never got completely wiped. I said to my team "well we won't win this but let's go down fighting". We didn't QQ about facing two premades or our team comp etc. As it happens, one of our pugs goes and ninja caps the enemy code at the end and we win! So, thank god for pugs. I played my first 55 Valor levels solo before I made friends in PvP and got my own premades going. No one knows more than me the frustration of losing time and again when you're trying to play objectives and the rest of the team have the spatial awareness of Helen Keller, the hand-eye coordination of a thalidomide victim, and the IQ of a walnut. It's part of the game. Newsflash: if you solo play you must accept there is a greater chance of meeting grouped coordinated teams. It's like me complaining that I can't complete raids solo. It's an MMO, ffs. There's also a huge amount of hypocrisy here. No pug who's with a class premade is going to complain or ask to be put on the other team. Premades actually HELP an awful lot of pugs. I learned so much from playing with and against premades in my early days here. As a social PVPer who wants to win and play with friends, I find that idiotic clueless bads ruin MY warzones, but I accept that's part and parcel of an MMO. I don't play to stomp pugs and I've hardly met anyone who does; this big bad imba premade that is too afraid for a real challenge but wants to smash nubs is a myth. Anyone who really has that mentality probably isn't a good player anyway. tl;dr: It works both ways. Stop trying to control and manage every detail. A bit of chaos is good in pvp. Premades can be good and bad, pugs can be good and bad. It's an MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vennian Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 This is an MMO. MMOs are about grouping with people. No one in all these pages has ever justified why a group of people shouldn't be allowed to play together just in case it might disadvantage solo players. Why? Because no justification is possible. Nobody wants to deny premades from grouping up. We just think premades should only face other premades. It's only fair. It's the imbalance in design by pugs BEING FORCED to meet premades we are complaining about. Also, the social aspect. Anyone in a warzone is in A TEAM. Warzones is about working together as a team. Pugs even get to meet more people than those running their usual premade. And we have to adapt faster and better to new teammates and unknown strategies. You want a challenge? Try pugging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LenrocNewDawn Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) This is an MMO. MMOs are about grouping with people. No one in all these pages has ever justified why a group of people shouldn't be allowed to play together just in case it might disadvantage solo players. Why? Because no justification is possible. Bla bla bla I had a life altering experience. Justification - Because playing a game while in disadvantage it's not fun. Knowing that you have a default (beyond your means of control within the reference frame AKA you solo queued) disadvantage is enraging and the only logical conclusion is that the rule makers of the game ****ed up. Despite your personal experiences, logic&reality are cruel and say that, in general, grouped(organised) people will have better cohesion, communication and cooperation in achieving a common goal. If you can not comprehend that then "May god have mercy on your soul!". Ah also what the guy above me said . Edited October 17, 2013 by LenrocNewDawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angellis Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Nobody wants to deny premades from grouping up. We just think premades should only face other premades. It's only fair. It's the imbalance in design by pugs BEING FORCED to meet premades we are complaining about. I get that. But what this means is that if there aren't any other, or enough, pre-mades queuing - I cannot group with the people I want to play with; which is the reason I mostly play this game. I am *forced* to play solo. Now of course, you can just say "tough". But I can say the same to you. I'm not a hypocrite (and I'm not saying you are either) but I am perfectly happy to accept the fact that when I queue solo (which I do) I might get stomped by a premade, because it works both ways and later I could be that premade. I am happy with this. Again, you could just say "well I'm not and it's not fair!", but that's not an argument, that's your opinion based on what you prefer, and it's different to mine. I don't see why you should get your own way in this. Of course, if Bioware changes nothing you could say that I am getting my own way by default - but before there is a massive upheavel to how PvP has always been in this game, and which would require cross-server queuing because in the current state your suggestion of pre-made only v pre-made would kill PvP, you need to show that this is really what an overwhelming majority of the PvP community want and that it would be good for the game. So far I haven't seen anyone do that in this thread, just complain or counter-complain based on their opinion. And hey that's fine - everyone has the right to complain and opine, but it doesn't prove anything. Also, the social aspect. Anyone in a warzone is in A TEAM. Warzones is about working together as a team. Pugs even get to meet more people than those running their usual premade. And we have to adapt faster and better to new teammates and unknown strategies. You want a challenge? Try pugging. I do pug. And like I said, my first 55 valor ranks were spent solo-queuing, so no one knows pug misery better than I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Efeljay Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Pretty much this People (myself included) have given EA a ton of feedback on the Pre Mades in WH augmented gear greifing the nonranked wzs and they have decided to ignore the issue! The only message that can be sent now is by cancelling when you simply cant take it anymore! I do want to clear something up thats a misstatement in this thread. The under geared PUG players are not the BAD in this senario, they are entering WZs knowing they mostly likely short on gear to some extent but still try to rise to challenge The BAD PLAYERS are the pre mades in WH Augmented gear rolling the unranked. After all, if they were half as good as they claim and 1/1000000 as good as they act like they are, they would be in Ranked Warzones and never step foot again in a unranked warzone because there is no challenge to being there. Sorry the GOOD Players are in Ranked when geared enough Its the BADs that require every single advantage they can summon so they dont get spanked by the unranked PUGs. Real people rise to a challenge Cowards hide from the challenge and try to bully those weaker (call it what it is). I have absolutely no respect for any of the pre mades (that are geared up) that troll the unranked. None at all. Be it imp pre made or Rep premade Far as Im concerned, THEY are the BADs Because their to cowardly to enter ranked consistantly (PS: spare me the excuse of ranked not popping. Seems tome if all the pre mades qued ranked, rather then unranked, it would pop alot faster.) Still say this issue (and EAs completely diregard to issue) is one of the main reasons the F2P will ultimately fail. Who wants to buy a sub after learning some BADs with every possible advantage will be farming them till they can gear up themselves. Far more likely they say after being rolled constant "Screw this, Im not spending money to feed some kids over inflated ego online" as they leave, never to return. Well said and exactly right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainamoinen Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) Deception Vigilance Lightning Arsenal I feel I should helpfully point out that in the UK, DVLA stands for "Driver and Vehicle Licensing Authority". Truly a brutal and feared arm of the oppressor state. Also, I'm looking forward to 6k of about 50%-proof whining badness. It'll be an achievement. You should get a title for posting in the thread. "Misanthrope", "Hates Teamwork" or perhaps "Doesn't do Groups". Edited October 17, 2013 by Wainamoinen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vennian Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) Again, you could just say "well I'm not and it's not fair!", but that's not an argument, that's your opinion based on what you prefer, and it's different to mine. I don't see why you should get your own way in this.I. Well, we are complaining about the issue because its a glaring imbalance in design. Unranked arenas should have proven that, even to the skeptics. All other things being equal, a premade DOES had advantages over a pug. So that's the fairness argument sorted. If you want the fairest pvp, you'll have to separate them. The current design failure is likely due to lack of pvp playerbase large enough to separate them. But this is also the thing that frustrates us pugs to quit pvp. You get into too many imbalanced warzones, you'll end up saying "**** it" and leave the game. And I don't agree with the notion that you have to get into a premade to enjoy pvp. Pugging should be a viable playstyle where you can get to enjoy yourself in a balanced match. Until BW fixes the issue, the pvp will suffer as disenfranchised pug players leave and inexperienced newbies try it out and become the new "cannon fodder". Until they also leave because the pvp is imbalanced. Edited October 17, 2013 by vennian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LenrocNewDawn Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I feel I should helpfully point out that in the UK, DVLA stands for "Driver and Vehicle Licensing Authority". Truly a brutal and feared arm of the oppressor state. Also, I'm looking forward to 6k of about 50%-proof whining badness. It'll be an achievement. You should get a title for posting in the thread. "Misanthrope", "Hates Teamwork" or perhaps "Doesn't do Groups". I'll award you a quick one. "Stupid"!!! Cause 6k replies later you still didn't get the point. If you feel that's too harsh, rat me out to the moderators . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 This is an MMO. MMOs are about grouping with people. Wait... You mean when I'm queueing solo, my teammates and opponents are actually AIs? This actually explains so much! It's like taking the red pill! Thanks, brah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angellis Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Wait... You mean when I'm queueing solo, my teammates and opponents are actually AIs? This actually explains so much! It's like taking the red pill! Thanks, brah! I know right? This came as a shock to me too. After months and months I figured this out and thought I'd pass on my wisdom. Anything I can do to help. I'm a caring soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I feel I should helpfully point out that in the UK, DVLA stands for "Driver and Vehicle Licensing Authority". Truly a brutal and feared arm of the oppressor state. Also, I'm looking forward to 6k of about 50%-proof whining badness. It'll be an achievement. You should get a title for posting in the thread. "Misanthrope", "Hates Teamwork" or perhaps "Doesn't do Groups". Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainamoinen Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) I'll award you a quick one. "Stupid"!!! Cause 6k replies later you still didn't get the point. If you feel that's too harsh, rat me out to the moderators . QED. Thank you for contributing to the achievement. Go six kiloderps! Interesting. Don't mind me, bored during lunch at work and looking for any amusement is all. Edited October 17, 2013 by Wainamoinen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchusabre Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Pretty much this People (myself included) have given EA a ton of feedback on the Pre Mades in WH augmented gear greifing the nonranked wzs and they have decided to ignore the issue! The only message that can be sent now is by cancelling when you simply cant take it anymore! I do want to clear something up thats a misstatement in this thread. The under geared PUG players are not the BAD in this senario, they are entering WZs knowing they mostly likely short on gear to some extent but still try to rise to challenge The BAD PLAYERS are the pre mades in WH Augmented gear rolling the unranked. After all, if they were half as good as they claim and 1/1000000 as good as they act like they are, they would be in Ranked Warzones and never step foot again in a unranked warzone because there is no challenge to being there. Sorry the GOOD Players are in Ranked when geared enough Its the BADs that require every single advantage they can summon so they dont get spanked by the unranked PUGs. Real people rise to a challenge Cowards hide from the challenge and try to bully those weaker (call it what it is). I have absolutely no respect for any of the pre mades (that are geared up) that troll the unranked. None at all. Be it imp pre made or Rep premade Far as Im concerned, THEY are the BADs Because their to cowardly to enter ranked consistantly (PS: spare me the excuse of ranked not popping. Seems tome if all the pre mades qued ranked, rather then unranked, it would pop alot faster.) Still say this issue (and EAs completely diregard to issue) is one of the main reasons the F2P will ultimately fail. Who wants to buy a sub after learning some BADs with every possible advantage will be farming them till they can gear up themselves. Far more likely they say after being rolled constant "Screw this, Im not spending money to feed some kids over inflated ego online" as they leave, never to return. Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Word. Did you just /word a post made a year ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) Did you just /word a post made a year ago? Don't you have better things to do than troll a 1.5 year-old thread? Edited October 18, 2013 by Helig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Don't you have better things to do than troll a 1.5 year-old thread? Try 1 year... and its not like he necro'd it. This thread has been ongoing for most of that time. Lots of baddies around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varietasplus Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Does anyone know whether Bioware has ever made a statement on the "premade in non-ranked" issue? I pugged a nice non-ranked Arena yesterday against a premade, made me hate PVP for half a day. Honestly, programming a proper queue system is beyond the skills of Bioware or they just do not give a ****? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vennian Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Does anyone know whether Bioware has ever made a statement on the "premade in non-ranked" issue? Yes we know. There has been no statement from BW. Doubt you'll ever get any. I think Blizzard is the only MMO developer who has made an official statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Don't you have better things to do than troll a 1.5 year-old thread? Well this thread has been keeping somewhat current and I'm not trolling (well almost not). But one someone quotes a post made in this thread from a year ago on outdated information it shows the caliber of players behind this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Well this thread has been keeping somewhat current and I'm not trolling (well almost not). But one someone quotes a post made in this thread from a year ago on outdated information it shows the caliber of players behind this thread. maybe in a few years they could publish this into a book, I am quite sure it would successful for use in psychology and modern culture lectures at colleges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DainjaMouz Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Not to get too meta, since I just stumbled across this thread, but it seems at this point you can classify the posts on this board into three categories: (1) Posts arguing that it's ridiculous that a 1.5 year old, 600+ page thread still has life. (2) Posts arguing that the thread is still relevant for some reason or the other. (3) Posts mocking either (1) or (2). For convenience sake, I'd suggest that anyone that gets the urge to post on this thread in the future simply enter the number above corresponding to the type of message you're jonesing to fire off. For instance, instead of writing a 500-word essay on the evils of premades, I could just type "(2)". Anyone wanting to mock, can quote the appropriate "(2)" and type "(3)". Anyone who takes the time to read thru 600+ pages of point and counterpoint and finds that they still have a unique idea, CAN START ANOTHER THREAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-darko Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Because people want their lopsided matches. Don't worry, I understand perfectly fine. So it is Premades and fully geared PUG's playing unranked 8 vs 8 instead of Ranked, killed the old ranked WZ's. The same gonna happen with Ranked Arenas, and finally all Ranked PVP. It's obvious that 'Hardcore' PVPers don't want even game play, they just want easy wins and the chance to write 'noob' in general. This is what killing PVP in this game ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 So it is Premades and fully geared PUG's playing unranked 8 vs 8 instead of Ranked, killed the old ranked WZ's. The same gonna happen with Ranked Arenas, and finally all Ranked PVP. It's obvious that 'Hardcore' PVPers don't want even game play, they just want easy wins and the chance to write 'noob' in general. This is what killing PVP in this game ... What this game needs is a proper matchmaking for all queue systems and cross server and we all know cross server is probably never going to happen, at least not in time to save the PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 So it is Premades and fully geared PUG's playing unranked 8 vs 8 instead of Ranked, killed the old ranked WZ's. The same gonna happen with Ranked Arenas, and finally all Ranked PVP. It's obvious that 'Hardcore' PVPers don't want even game play, they just want easy wins and the chance to write 'noob' in general. This is what killing PVP in this game ... The game kind of encouraged it by making the dailies and weekly only completable in regs. So now; if there is a group of 4 guys that want to do their daily/weekly, you are going to get them there and they will happen to be a complete team when they get an arena pop. Don't hate the player. Hate the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Not to get too meta, since I just stumbled across this thread, but it seems at this point you can classify the posts on this board into three categories: (1) Posts arguing that it's ridiculous that a 1.5 year old, 600+ page thread still has life. (2) Posts arguing that the thread is still relevant for some reason or the other. (3) Posts mocking either (1) or (2). For convenience sake, I'd suggest that anyone that gets the urge to post on this thread in the future simply enter the number above corresponding to the type of message you're jonesing to fire off. For instance, instead of writing a 500-word essay on the evils of premades, I could just type "(2)". Anyone wanting to mock, can quote the appropriate "(2)" and type "(3)". Anyone who takes the time to read thru 600+ pages of point and counterpoint and finds that they still have a unique idea, CAN START ANOTHER THREAD. (3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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