Merc is TERRIBLE

[Dovahbrah]

LOL another who needs to L2P. Go away, nub.

 

So where's that video? Oh, you don't have one? ****.

[Technohic]

So any videos yet?

[xxIncubixx]

Lesson 1: Killing a Sentinel 1v1.

 

We've all had this done to us. Sentinel leaps in, unleashes hell in less than 5 seconds and leaves you dead on the floor with your pants down and your butt hurting. To avoid this:

 

Step 1: Shoryuken and back up.

Step 2: Hit him with Unload to slow him down.

Step 3: Tracer,Tracer, Heatseeker.

Step 4: KB and back up.

Step 5: Vent and Shield, rapid shots, electro dart when he pops his God Shield.

Step 6: KEEP MOVING and hit him with whatever finishes cooldown until he vanishes. Wait for him to reappear.

Step 7: Finish him off.

Seriously, most Sentinels/Marauders are defenseless while their God Mode buttons are on cooldown. If you ever find yourself in that situation, surviving them is tricky, but doable. You WILL need to heal yourself afterward, though.

 

not sure if serious or just trolling... merc/commando is terrible in PVP, arsenal is laughable... i can kill warhero mercs on my recruit gear sentinel or sage, not really rocket science there... and assault isnt much better either, sure u have a nice initial burst... but thats about it.

Edited October 21, 2012 by xxIncubixx

[Asukaa]

So any videos yet?

 

Vids were posted a couple pages back, 35 & 36? not sure...

 

New Vid of Silch and I 2v2'ing. Silch wanted the 4v2 vid, but I didn't get it on Fraps. =(

 

[Asukaa]

Yes the class isn't ranked worthy, I know that first hand. I thought that I could do well in ranked but there's just nothing I can do in ranked, I get focused right off the bat once they see my gun, 100% of the time seriously. I said this early on in the thread. My whole argument was 1v1. Not grouped. When it comes to 1v1 there are only 2 classes that can shut me down completely. The other fights I can win. Yes, I use medpacks, who the F doesn't? That marauder used his camo to try and creep up on me. Mistake #1 on his part. His Undying Rage might have been on CD. My shield only took 2 or 3 hits before it was gone. I started the fight with 2 of my defensive abilities on CD, 61% hp from the WZ health pot, then medpacked for 35%. That put me back to almost full HP. Lol is it my fault that his UR was on CD or his fault that 2 of my abilities were on CD? Or maybe in his head he thought it was an easy kill and decided not to use his UR? Maybe he wasn't paying attention to his health, maybe my running around confused the crap outta him and he was waiting for me to start casting to try and lay down his rotation? Who knows? In pvp, environment and utilities (medpack/adrenals/biochem buffs) are all fair game. If you don't use them, then YOU are the one at a disadvantage regardless of what class you play. So please stop with the whole medpack thing, it's really invalid and just makes me feel like you can't argue about anything else except that. When was the last time you used a med pack? And if you didn't notice, I was fighting a Jugg who got me down very low, he took off and as I was running to the wz medpack that mara was sneaking up behind me. He used camo at the wrong time, trying to be slick. What can I say? He had poor judgement.

 

And I'll say this again for the millionth time since no one cares to read the earlier pages. I know the class is lacking. I always said that they need an instant ability to reset HiB like VG/PT's have. I can't kite and rest HiB. I have to wait the whole freaking CD to use it again. It gimps the classes DPS severely. Survivability, I feel that the class is ok at best. The only classes I feel that have too much survivability are mara's/sents and shadows/assassins. Take them down a notch and I think everyone would be on the same plane. But that's all debatable.

 

I feel that if the whiners playing gunnery/arsenal would switch to Pyro/Assault, maybe you'd have a better time with the class. When I said that, a few haters came out and started talking smack. They wanted proof that I could do what I said I can do. I took on the only Guardian that said he would duel me. If my friends on the Imp side were still playing I would have asked them to duel also. But I am now recording a few wz's here and there and I will try to compile the 1v1's that I come across. Play with me if you're on the pub side in POT5 or challenge me. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, I'd fraps it and admit to it. But so far I haven't been proven wrong. Also, have you guys ever thought that just maybe, you haven't come across a really good commando? Not saying I'm the best, there is another pyro merc on pot5 that is better than me and beats me a lot of the times (can't remember name). It could work the same way, maybe everyone on pot5 are baddies and I haven't experienced "real" pvp. But I don't think anyone on pot5 would admit to that.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Asukaa

[LeonHawkeye]

Here we go, no we're getting somewhere. Hubris a side we all agree on a few key points:

 

1) DPS Mandos/Mercs lack utility and tools to be properly effective and/or attractive for Ranked play.

2) It is possible to excel on this class but not probable nor proportionate to the effort and skill it takes to do so.

3) Assault tends to have less vulnerabilities than Gunnery but still has an abundance of flaws, leaving both specs feeling lackluster and still not viable for Ranked and or competitive play, be it of 1v1 nature or Ranked Team play.

4) DPS Mandos/Mercs need love, bottom line. We are not fine as is and it is not a L2P issue. We simply don't have the tools.

 

Among all the gobbledegook, these are a few of the problems we can all agree on. There are an abundance of suggestions and feedback, now all we need to do is keep it properly bumped with constructive feedback and don't forget to 5 star the thread. If this is not enough for Bioware to do something about our dysfunctional class, nothing will be and we will be best of re-rolling or simply quitting the game altogether. Best of wishes mates.

[Phasersablaze]

Who the hell cares about 1v1? So far you have brought nothing constructive to this thread at all. And by the way, Arsenal Mercs do better in WZs if played correctly, so stop saying the problem is that we aren't speccing Pyro. We do more DPS and also have the advantage of a much stronger KB. which is useful in guarding objectives and also punting people into fires/acid/all the way into the pit from the walkway. You think your slightly better mobility is an advantage? I can LOS you too. I can cleanse your dots off me and heal myself. You are sacrificing utility and DPS for nothing.

[Amebia]

I propose a new ability called *Kamikaze*(*No surrender* for commandos)

Ability description

-Arms two thermal detonators and charges the target at high speed(50% speed buff root/slow/snare immunity)

 

Deals damage equal to your current Hp.

(Kills you too obviously)

 

40 second cooldown.

Area=7M

All additional enemies get hit for 40% less damage.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Amebia

[wezli]

sounds fun

 

and it was on one of the cinimatics that trooper vs malgus

[Technohic]

Yes the class isn't ranked worthy, I know that first hand. I thought that I could do well in ranked but there's just nothing I can do in ranked, I get focused right off the bat once they see my gun, 100% of the time seriously. I said this early on in the thread. My whole argument was 1v1. Not grouped.

 

1 vs 1 hardly helps toward objectives. Putting up huge numbers doesn't mean you helped in objectives. Actually saw someone in sub-50 yesterday talking trash to someone they "Owned and farmed the entire game." Yeah. It was a level 47 pyro powertech beating on a level 12 scoundrel. He had the highest damage and kills of anyone there by far, but his team lost. Big time. Give the man a cookie.

 

My point is, that is what people have been complaining about which you have poo-pooed. It is not 1 vs 1. It is the fact that anything a merc/commando can do, the same person could likely do better on another class in a war zone. It doesn't even matter what spec is better within the class. That is not the subject of debate although people want to debate that; it is irrelevant.

 

I have killed Sentinels and Gaurdians on my arsenal merc in the open world myself. Doesn't change the fact that I could easier with my assassin, marauder, or sniper or what those bring to the table extra in a war zone.

[Asukaa]

1 vs 1 hardly helps toward objectives. Putting up huge numbers doesn't mean you helped in objectives. Actually saw someone in sub-50 yesterday talking trash to someone they "Owned and farmed the entire game." Yeah. It was a level 47 pyro powertech beating on a level 12 scoundrel. He had the highest damage and kills of anyone there by far, but his team lost. Big time. Give the man a cookie.

 

My point is, that is what people have been complaining about which you have poo-pooed. It is not 1 vs 1. It is the fact that anything a merc/commando can do, the same person could likely do better on another class in a war zone. It doesn't even matter what spec is better within the class. That is not the subject of debate although people want to debate that; it is irrelevant.

 

I have killed Sentinels and Gaurdians on my arsenal merc in the open world myself. Doesn't change the fact that I could easier with my assassin, marauder, or sniper or what those bring to the table extra in a war zone.

 

I'm an objective player. 99% of the time it's all about objectives. I like my class and don't feel that I'm a hindrance to any wz pug I go into. In fact it's usually the opposite. If I don't mark healers, no one will... If I don't yell out to focus on one of the targets, healers just sit back and free cast. Imp healers on POT5 have no complaints about reg wz's because they pretty much get left alone. It's sad but true. I'm usually the only one on them and I can't solo an Operative healer (well played and geared that is). Same goes for a Merc healer since they both can cleanse my dots. I can take them out of the fight so they are forced to focus heals on themselves tho. And yes it's true that if I played my Assassin or VG, I wouldn't have that problem. It'd probably be a lot easier to kill them. But I like playing my Commando. I have never complained about my class or spec once. I love my Commando. It is by far the most fun class to play, imo. Actually, Op healer is pretty fun too. All in all, it is my choice what class I want to play. It is my money getting spent every month. This is what I choose to do and I do not complain about it.

 

I am currently gearing out a Tactics VG for ranked, but it is only for ranked. I will continue to keep my Commando as my main.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Asukaa

[Technohic]

I'm an objective player. 99% of the time it's all about objectives. I like my class and don't feel that I'm a hindrance to any wz pug I go into. In fact it's usually the opposite. If I don't mark healers, no one will... If I don't yell out to focus on one of the targets, healers just sit back and free cast. Imp healers on POT5 have no complaints about reg wz's because they pretty much get left alone. It's sad but true. I'm usually the only one on them and I can't solo an Operative healer (well played and geared that is). Same goes for a Merc healer since they both can cleanse my dots. I can take them out of the fight so they are forced to focus heals on themselves tho. And yes it's true that if I played my Assassin or VG, I wouldn't have that problem. It's probably be a lot easier to kill them. But I like playing my Commando. I have never complain about my class or spec once. I love my Commando. It is by far the most fun class to play, imo. Actually, Op healer is pretty fun too. All in all, it is my choice what class I want to play. It is my money getting spent every month. This is what I choose to do and I do not complain about it.

 

I am currently gearing out a Tactics VG for ranked, but it is only for ranked. I will continue to keep my Commando as my main.

 

If you love it so much; wouldn't you like to be able to use that character in ranked?

[Asukaa]

If you love it so much; wouldn't you like to be able to use that character in ranked?

 

I would love to be viable in Ranked. The problem is, once you see that blaster cannon, most experienced players are automatically going to assume "Healer! And he's unguarded!" And then proceed to focus me. Everyone else is busy either trying to kill the other teams healers or keep our healers alive so I fall through the cracks. I don't complain, I know how it works. With only 1 shield I can't be expected to live through a 4v1 even with heals. A mara, jugg, and assassin can. So I will simply roll something else solely for ranked until they fix Commando's. However, I will not hang up my Commando because of that. He does fine in reg wz's where most of my time is spent anyway.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Asukaa

[Technohic]

I would love to be viable in Ranked. The problem is, once you see that blaster cannon, most experienced players are automatically going to assume "Healer! And he's unguarded!" And then proceed to focus me. Everyone else is busy either trying to kill the other teams healers or keep our healers alive so I fall through the cracks. I don't complain, I know how it works. With only 1 shield I can't be expected to live through a 4v1 even with heals. A mara, jugg, and assassin can. So I will simply roll something else solely for ranked until they fix Commando's. However, I will not hang up my Commando because of that. He does fine in reg wz's where most of my time is spent anyway.

 

It's funny you mention that because I started leveling a scrapper this weekend, and I like to follow commandos, waiting for that mara/jug to come flying in.

[Uggen]

We are still waiting, bioware. Are you gonna answer us anytime soon?

[Technohic]

13 pages about class performance = no aswer

2 posts in a thread about cartel coins and F2p = Answer

 

There are the priorities laid out clear as day.

[TipsyDrow]

Give mercs/commandos tools to deal with melee.

1-A defensive CD similar to what marras/sents have

2-A speed boost

3-change the stocktrike root to a knockback that knock backs 8 m's and roots for 4 seconds

This would KB the melee out of melee range but also make them have to move back when the root ends to leap.

I think those three things or similar things would give the merc a fighting chance but make it OP in any way shape or form.

[JestersRevenge]

It's ok man, I don't hate you.

 

I'm pointing out the fallacies in your reasoning and 'evidence'. I've explained *exhaustively* how and why what you've said is incorrect. Your only serious rebuttal has been, as pointed out, a couple of vids against opponents that any reasonable (not even good, just reasonable) commandos could have beaten.

 

Let's go over something:

 

 

 

I have never said in this thread, or anywhere else that a bad player could beat me with a good class. NOWHERE. So you flounce in here, propose that for you, some classes are easy kills for you, and... wait for it!!!!..... Post vids fighting bad players. YES they were bad! YES people beat bad players. Hello! Mcfly!

 

 

 

No, I'm good. I know it's unfashionable to say that, but I am (I'm also self employed, and spend a bit more time in the game than I should). If you beat me, I'll give you serious props and tell everyone you're an awesome commando. It won't show anything about Juggs etc, but I know some *really* good juggernauts, and I'd happily introduce you.

 

See, it's really quite simple. Again - There is no example ANYWHERE in this game, of one of the best commandos able to compete equally with top players from other classes. You're making this out to be some kind of complex argument with shifting goalposts. It's not complex, nothing is changing, it's very basic.

 

I've played against you on the Shadowlands and what you do with the gimped class is amazing. I have a lot of respect for you keeping with the class (get some more vids up already). I've recently rolled my own Gunnery Commando (LvL 30), but I have a 50 Corruption Sorcerer, 50 Vengeance Juggernaut and a 50 Pyro Powertech, all of them in a mix of BM and WH. I've enjoyed PvP'ing with them immensely, but I'm enjoying my Commando more. Perhaps for the challenge of it? But when the melee train starts, it makes me want to rage...I know it'll be worse when he hits 50. And yes, there are some Juggs/Maras on Shadowlands I'd like to introduce to Asukaa (sp?) like Merkave, Kinshin, Aluvian, Sage'Optimus, etc. This whole thread isn't a reference to individual skill as much as it is about the shortcomings of the AC. If pillar and catwalk humping are our saving graces and if Rateds won't take a Gunnery spec (generally speaking), isn't that enough of a clue?

[Jherad]

^^ Thank you sir.

 

We are lucky to have some fantastic players on our server, and nothing I say about my own AC should take away from their skill and PvP prowess. *Always* good to see people like Grahf, Sage'Optimus, Merkave, Huggernaut and others who have mastered their classes to the point where they can and do make a huge contribution to their respective teams.

 

I just want DPS Commandos/Mercs to have the tools required to make them equally as desirable in RWZ teams. Heck, I'd settle for 'a little bit desirable'.

[cub-lover]

ok i REALLY do not see what peopel are crying about i love my merc in pvp levle 44 merc, i rotate from arsonal to bodyguard, and pyro depending if i wanan burn people heal or shove a roket in their face, and i NEVER have problems issueing any of my attacks even when i have two meele on me i can simply use jet boost, and put htem in their place, in ANY spec, its jsut people dont know how to use their abilties properly or when specificaly to use their immunities

[Rafael_Peres]

Mercs/Commandos are the easiest targets in the game. I remember at launch a guy named Sweetooth pwning everything with a merc in Huttball, but these days are long gone. Edited October 23, 2012 by Rafael_Peres

[Eillack]

Does the Merc need a mouth?

[Laforet]

Read signed and approved.

 

Mercs are the worst AC in the game to take to a RWZ at the moment, followed closely by sage (at least we have bubbles)

 

I feel for you guys, /respect

[TipsyDrow]

ok i REALLY do not see what peopel are crying about i love my merc in pvp levle 44 merc, i rotate from arsonal to bodyguard, and pyro depending if i wanan burn people heal or shove a roket in their face, and i NEVER have problems issueing any of my attacks even when i have two meele on me i can simply use jet boost, and put htem in their place, in ANY spec, its jsut people dont know how to use their abilties properly or when specificaly to use their immunities

Hit lvl 50.

Say hello to the first sentinel/focus guardian/assault vangaurd you meet.

Come back and post then.

[SOULCASTER]

ok i REALLY do not see what peopel are crying about i love my merc in pvp levle 44 merc, i rotate from arsonal to bodyguard, and pyro depending if i wanan burn people heal or shove a roket in their face, and i NEVER have problems issueing any of my attacks even when i have two meele on me i can simply use jet boost, and put htem in their place, in ANY spec, its jsut people dont know how to use their abilties properly or when specificaly to use their immunities

 

HaHAAHAHa lowbies dont count. Especially when you're level 44 and most likely going against level 10s-30s.

 

Hit 50, and go queue for warzones. Then come back and post.