Merc is TERRIBLE

[TheronFett]

Pyro Merc can easily go back to the tops of the list (I do it very very very often). Food for thought

 

PS I only know 1 Powertech Pyro that can outdps me or my guildmate pyro merc

 

And you're doing this on a ranked PvP team, right? No? Then no one cares.

 

Anyone can rock a Merc in PUG matches against scrubs, just like any other class. You've missed the entire point of this thread, which is: Mercs are not competitive. Not by any player on any server.

[Technohic]

It's a waste of time to try to reason with people.

 

It doesn't matter how many times we say why a pyro powertech should by design,(not by there not being any skill to ever close that gap) be able to outperform a pyro merc; nor how many times you say that yes, you CAN do well, but not AS well as any other class could do if played equally on skill and execution; you will always get the pros that ignore that and just live in their box of "I do just fine" without ever stopping to see this wasn't about not being able to do just fine in the first place..

[Ryvirath]

And you're doing this on a ranked PvP team, right? No? Then no one cares.

 

Anyone can rock a Merc in PUG matches against scrubs, just like any other class. You've missed the entire point of this thread, which is: Mercs are not competitive. Not by any player on any server.

 

Simply untrue, but for practical purposes I agree. If you had a theoretical perfect team that was so coordinated they could lock down every player except the one they intend to kill for 16 seconds, perfect guard switching, taunting healers, focus targeting, communication of when such and such CC breaks were up both yours and opponents, triaging healers, and only killing when a player would be behind a fullspawn door with each team member keeping mental track of how much time was left on each spawn release down to a half a second you could get away with pretty much any composition in full recruit gear and be the best.

 

Basically what it comes down to is if the group you run with is good enough you can get away with just about any comp.

[Mancer]

Simply untrue, but for practical purposes I agree. If you had a theoretical perfect team that was so coordinated they could lock down every player except the one they intend to kill for 16 seconds, perfect guard switching, taunting healers, focus targeting, communication of when such and such CC breaks were up both yours and opponents, triaging healers, and only killing when a player would be behind a fullspawn door with each team member keeping mental track of how much time was left on each spawn release down to a half a second you could get away with pretty much any composition in full recruit gear and be the best.

 

Basically what it comes down to is if the group you run with is good enough you can get away with just about any comp.

 

In theory what you say is true, but we know there isnt a team that executes 100% at every moment in a WZ.

Simply, there are other classes that will bring more to the table than a merc which gives the appearance we are hitting that 100% efficiency mark.

[TheronFett]

Simply untrue, but for practical purposes I agree. If you had a theoretical perfect team that was so coordinated they could lock down every player except the one they intend to kill for 16 seconds, perfect guard switching, taunting healers, focus targeting, communication of when such and such CC breaks were up both yours and opponents, triaging healers, and only killing when a player would be behind a fullspawn door with each team member keeping mental track of how much time was left on each spawn release down to a half a second you could get away with pretty much any composition in full recruit gear and be the best.

 

Basically what it comes down to is if the group you run with is good enough you can get away with just about any comp.

 

The only thing a Merc would be good for on your theoretical perfect team would be keeping track of the respawn timer on the door...because that's where he would be 95% of the time. In your scenario, where does a Merc fit in?

 

- Guard switching? No.

- Taunting healers? No.

- Coordinated stuns? No.

 

A Merc can bring one of two things to a team: heals or damage. They can't hybrid spec and be effective at both like some classes can. And even when in either spec, there are other classes who simply do it better and offer more utility to boot.

 

Healing is the one viable role for a Merc in ranked matches. I've seen a couple, and while they're darn good, they simply don't have the tools to handle focus fire like Sorc and Operative healers. As damage spec, there's absolutely no reason to bring a Merc, ever.

 

The glaring question remains: would you want a Merc on your team, given other options?

Edited October 12, 2012 by TheronFett

[Phasersablaze]

Arsenal merc just had the bad luck of being the first PVP class in the OP spotlight. After 1.2 we got hit hard:

 

Range on DFA reduced to LOL even tyhough it only hits half as hard as Orbital

Tracer nerf

Multiple HSM nerfs (this still buggs me the shady way they did this. Rage marauders can AE for 5k+ and I have to hit a sage to get 5k with my single-target best ability. Honestly, the big crits are what make a ranged dps class fun and not blah)

 

And THEN they decided to stop nerfing damage and just start tweaking everyone's utiility.

 

To be balanced we must:

 

1) Have such incredible burst mele will be taking a gamble whether they can shut us down before they die

 

or

 

2) Have as much survivability as a marauder so that we can outlast a rotation of damage with interrupts and knockdowns.

 

or

 

3) Have a unique mobility/escape mechanism. Where r u battle rocket boots/jet-pack ability?

 

Personally, I would like to see a target-area jetpack ability. (You don't need an ally/enemy to jet to the area you target). This would give us something unique and desirable; especially in maps like hutt-ball.

 

Really anything would be nice...KB/Root on Heatseeker missle? Some type of Entrench ability? Even just addind root to Jet boost like snipers have would do wonders. Arsenal merc is a great class, its a shame none of the Devs care.

[xCorrosive]

After playing a healer merc for quite a long time, I decided to check out the PvP viability of arsenal (with full WH mods & set bonus for dps) , and I too was disappointed with the "glass cannon" aspect of the AC. Sure, it can be a lot of fun and great numbers against pugs who don't prioritize kills or focus target, but terrible dps and survivability against even the slightly-above-average premade with some WZ experience and awareness.

 

Second, not sure why they took away the 2nd KB, what about it screamed "nerf me!" to the devs? In a dps spec, the loss of this ability became immediately apparent as something that would be a little more helpful in a 1v1 against a melee class instead of a root. Now it would seem that it's only utility is to stop some LoS escape artists from getting away from your melee core, or when having to be the LoSer (pun intended) healer merc doing some pillar hopping.

 

A few other thoughts/suggestions with this class:

1. Allow dps specs to have an improved shield ability similar to "Undying Rage". The 25% dmg reduction prolongs death by about .1 secs against good players. At least let us go out with a "bang" after 5 secs.

2. Add talented stun/root on the only 1 KB we have (similar to snipers/slingers) instead of a larger KB distance which is extremely counter-productive against jumpers anyway.

3. At least make the knockback for Rpunch like ~1 feet like the assassins/shadows sweeping slash or w/e.

 

Feel free to rip this post apart - Servers are down and I was bored.

[Asukaa]

The glaring question remains: would you want a Merc on your team, given other options?

 

I have been asked to join ranked teams. Simply based on my performance. I have joined said teams and have been the #1 focused target of all opposing teams. Even before the healers. I did in fact spend 90% (not 95% pffffftttt) at the respawn door.

[xCorrosive]

Lol, just saw Phaser's post after putting together mine. Cheers for that! Edited October 12, 2012 by xCorrosive

[Mancer]

I have been asked to join ranked teams. Simply based on my performance. I have joined said teams and have been the #1 focused target of all opposing teams. Even before the healers. I did in fact spend 90% (not 95% pffffftttt) at the respawn door.

 

I like this because it's true.

[Phasersablaze]

I have been asked to join ranked teams. Simply based on my performance. I have joined said teams and have been the #1 focused target of all opposing teams. Even before the healers. I did in fact spend 90% (not 95% pffffftttt) at the respawn door.

 

And the problem is that, even if the mele isn't able to kill you because of a healer or w/e, the mele has still effectively neutered your damage without any loss to his own. We have no classes we are easily able to kill/shut down except for other bad mercenaries. And that's the fundamental reason Mercenaries are a liability in WZs.

[buddafx]

Here's why i see merc at a disadvantage

 

1. We are a ranged class but melee has the ability to jump/grab whatever and negate that advantage instantly.

2. All of our defensive abilities take to long to cast and are thereby easily interupted or

3. Cause a substantial heat build up so when we are able to get away and turn to fire, we overheat and just demolished.

 

Kiting is impossible when you are never truely out of their range.

[Asukaa]

Here's why i see merc at a disadvantage

 

1. We are a ranged class but melee has the ability to jump/grab whatever and negate that advantage instantly.

2. All of our defensive abilities take to long to cast and are thereby easily interupted or

3. Cause a substantial heat build up so when we are able to get away and turn to fire, we overheat and just demolished.

 

Kiting is impossible when you are never truely out of their range.

 

Mara's/Sents are easy to kite for assault commando's/mercs. Juggs/Guardians are just as easy but you need to remember to wait those 4 secs after the jump. Shadows/assassins and Vanguards/PT's are just not kite-able.

[DkSharktooth]

Here is what would make sense in pvp:

 

Mercs are a class that can be spam interrupted, if not interrupted they should be hitting HARDER than a melee class therefore legitimizing having to get on the merc to interrupt. I don't think you can balance this factor with both pve and pvp together unless you just implement a different system for pve and pvp in which one doesn't effect the other.

 

If all classes are balanced for pve dps to be able to do more or less the same output, and you translate that to pvp dps, then the classes that can be easily interrupted, aka the merc, just turn into poop because half their output is stopped. Only way to get class balance for pve AND pvp is to separate the two systems completely with 2 difference balance modes.

[xxIncubixx]

Mara's/Sents are easy to kite for assault commando's/mercs. Juggs/Guardians are just as easy but you need to remember to wait those 4 secs after the jump. Shadows/assassins and Vanguards/PT's are just not kite-able.

 

LOOOL what? easy to kite as assault? really? must be some terrible marauders...

[TheronFett]

The "Merc Class Defenders" who keep chiming in on this thread (and others) need to realize something. We're on your side. No one is saying that every Merc player is bad. The class is broken. It's simply no good, no matter who you put behind the wheel. PvP has evolved, and heavily favors melee.

 

Back in the day, Mercs were damn near unstoppable, albeit largely because of Tracer Missile spam. That was nerfed, and every change to the class since has rendered it near useless. Most of us scratch our heads and wonder what the dev team is thinking most of the time, but when it comes to Merc...we're all left speechless:

 

1) Nerfed Tracer Missile

Let's not forget that Tracer Missile stacks 5 times. But, you need to spam Tracer Missile x3 to get to those 5 stacks. That's a DPS loss and makes for a clunky rotation. It's a stupid mechanic, and should be reduced to 4 stacks for the same debuff.

 

2) Removed the knockback on Rocket Punch

LOLwut? Why on earth would a ranged class want to root anyone 4m from them? This is the most retarded change to any class to date. Considering this dev team's track record, that's saying a lot.

 

3) Tie other abilities back to Tracer Missile

Want a better heal? Spam moar Tracer Missile. Seriously...what the hell were they thinking?

 

If anyone has any doubts as to how inept the developers are in this game, look no further than Mercenary.

[Jherad]

CRAPPY Mara's/Sents are easy to kite for assault commando's/mercs. CRAPPY Juggs/Guardians are just as easy but you need to remember to wait those 4 secs after the jump. Shadows/assassins and Vanguards/PT's are just not kite-able.

 

Fixed it for you.

[Phasersablaze]

Mara's/Sents are easy to kite for assault commando's/mercs. Juggs/Guardians are just as easy but you need to remember to wait those 4 secs after the jump. Shadows/assassins and Vanguards/PT's are just not kite-able.

 

Lol that's a good one. Wait 4 seconds while they are ravaging your face off. And no...you can't kite them. It takes them 1 second to strafe away and jump back to you.

[ArchangelLBC]

I have been asked to join ranked teams. Simply based on my performance. I have joined said teams and have been the #1 focused target of all opposing teams. Even before the healers. I did in fact spend 90% (not 95% pffffftttt) at the respawn door.

 

So what you're saying is you were a valuable contributor? I'd focus you too. Get rid of a DPS who effectively can't do anything under focus fire and you ensure that you're always effectively facing 7 players.

 

It very much more mobile because even without casting FA or CB you can still be effective. I only cast/channel when I am being left alone. If someone is in my face, I am not going to sit there and start casting/channeling when I know damn well it's going to be interrupted (unless they're almost dead). I will use my defensive CD's to gain some ground and kite. Assault Plastique is extremely useful here and now coupled with Sticky Grenade it makes it even better. I've taken out tons of people with full health without ever hitting them with a CB or FA. Not saying you shouldn't, but for Assault, it's optional depending on the situation. If you want to max your dmg done then you will have to use them as much as possible, but if you are trying to stay alive/kite/los, you have no reason to stop moving and root yourself to keep the dmg pumping out.

 

And as for spamming Incendiary Round... Really?

 

Really really?

 

So you would agree that it's contraindicated? Outside of Incendiary Round, Assault has no more instants than Gunnery. Hammer Shot hits harder but fluff damage is fluff damage.

 

Just want to point out you really need to stop saying "Merc" and adjust to "Arsenal" or "Middle tree" Merc. If you choose to take that horrible tree into PvP you deserve to get rocked. Pyro Merc can easily go back to the tops of the list (I do it very very very often). Food for thought

 

PS I only know 1 Powertech Pyro that can outdps me or my guildmate pyro merc

 

Left alone, either spec is going to do a lot of damage. Under fire neither spec is going to hold up. Neither spec is going to bring any sort of amazing team utility. Welcome to the conversation.

[Henu]

I love my merc, im glad so many people suck at it.

[ArchangelLBC]

I love my merc, im glad so many people suck at it.

 

Still waiting on that video.

[Henu]

Yeah i still waiting on BW to fix frame issues/ crashes and oh i dont know fix level 50 PVP.

[Jenzali]

The "Merc Class Defenders" who keep chiming in on this thread (and others) need to realize something. We're on your side. No one is saying that every Merc player is bad. The class is broken. It's simply no good, no matter who you put behind the wheel. PvP has evolved, and heavily favors melee.

 

Back in the day, Mercs were damn near unstoppable, albeit largely because of Tracer Missile spam. That was nerfed, and every change to the class since has rendered it near useless. Most of us scratch our heads and wonder what the dev team is thinking most of the time, but when it comes to Merc...we're all left speechless:

 

1) Nerfed Tracer Missile

Let's not forget that Tracer Missile stacks 5 times. But, you need to spam Tracer Missile x3 to get to those 5 stacks. That's a DPS loss and makes for a clunky rotation. It's a stupid mechanic, and should be reduced to 4 stacks for the same debuff.

 

2) Removed the knockback on Rocket Punch

LOLwut? Why on earth would a ranged class want to root anyone 4m from them? This is the most retarded change to any class to date. Considering this dev team's track record, that's saying a lot.

 

3) Tie other abilities back to Tracer Missile

Want a better heal? Spam moar Tracer Missile. Seriously...what the hell were they thinking?

 

If anyone has any doubts as to how inept the developers are in this game, look no further than Mercenary.

 

You've had a change of heart since your earlier posts

 

Hmm. I can top DPS charts on my Merc and Operative (when Concealment spec). So...why is it you're not doing your job?

 

I recently rolled a Merc. I'm consistently putting up top DPS/kills with very few deaths. Granted, this is in the lowbie bracket thus far, but the class is far from gimped. The key is avoiding confrontations with melee that you can't get out of easily with LOS. Merc doesn't really have much in the way of escape abilities in a 1vs1 situation.

 

Working as intended, in my opinion.

 

Did your merc hit 50?

[Gyronamics]

Yeah, and as Phaser pointed out, the loss of the second knockback evens things up a bit as well. But still. assuming we both use dart/sticky I'm not sure that the extra damage of thermal makes up for the burst of a CoF full auto, Hib and Demo round. Sure, Its more burst in a single hit, but I think gunnery has more over 6 seconds.

 

How can CoF FA, HiB and Demo even feature in the same sentence as the phrase Burst Damage.

 

Or are you talking about firing them with one or even no grav buffs.

 

Because firing off a channeled attack plus two instants after three cast attacks isn't even remotely burst damage, It's your pve rotation which is perfect for a boss which sits there and lets you molest it.

 

If you want to see short high damage burst you get on Pyro and do this:

 

1) Ignite the target with whatever, CGC is the quietest way, just looks like a puny default attack

2) Thermal Detonator

3) Powershot

4) Railshot

 

All of that goes off in about half a second due to the timed, cast and instant effects landing at once.

 

You can now follow up with Explosive Dart and continue on the refreshed CGC dot (because railshot hit it) with an unload.

 

Everything is fully buffed and you don't have to beg the target not to move while you get all your buffs and debuffs ready.

 

I don't use Explosive Dart with Thermal Detonator, they won't go off together, might as well follow each throw with a Powershot cast which will hit at the same time and is harder for a target to defend against.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Gyronamics

[TheronFett]

You've had a change of heart since your earlier posts

 

Did your merc hit 50?

 

No, stopped playing it at 33. No intention of getting to 50. What's the point? For me at least, it was an experiment to see if it really was a L2P issue. Kind of hard to judge in the pre-50 bracket, when the class still has the appearance of being viable.

Edited October 13, 2012 by TheronFett