antwillgreen Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Stang you must suck at being a merc if its that bad for you... Im just sad that they got rid of the knockback for rocket punch, looked nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xertasian Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Do you Xertasian? Do you really? Really really? Really really really? Really really really really? 1/10 for effort. But I appreciate your dropping by. Have a super smashing day. well i usually stay out of forum topics..but certain ones i do add my 2 cents and usually leave it alone..since you was kind enough to reply..i will show the same courtesy..btw coming back going to fix me another glass of red bull and vodka.. i would offer you some but i doubt seriously you can drink it from a computer screen.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) ^^Weaksauce Much more needed, and my pet suggestion, is a hold the line type ability that grants leap/pull/interrupt immunity for 8s on a 30s cooldown, available very high in the Gunnery/Arsenal tree. Like the above poster said, it's utility we need not damage necessarily. Yeah agreed - I personally feel that the key to fixing us is going to be with a limited defense against interrupts, added survivability and/or escape tools, and possibly some extra utility. On the first two, someone mentioned something about making five stacks of charged barrier add physics/interrupt immunity but be the stacks be lost when we moved. I like that a lot, if they also return the damage reduction to its pre-nerf state of 2% per stack. Edited October 11, 2012 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asukaa Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 The real question here is, why continue to play that class if it's so bad? Why not respec to assault/pyro? I've never played tracer missle/grav round spec so I don't know the full extent of the class, but jesus, if you all complain so much about it, just respec. Assault is so much better. Not better than a VG/PT but pretty damn close. I can out dps them err-day but their single target burst loads up faster than mine. Just saying... you might like the change of pace. And as pro as you guys think you are, there are only 2 counter classes to the assault commando; tanksin/shadow tank and VG/PT. So your whining should go down to a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) The real question here is, why continue to play that class if it's so bad? Why not respec to assault/pyro? I've never played tracer missle/grav round spec so I don't know the full extent of the class, but jesus, if you all complain so much about it, just respec. Assault is so much better. Not better than a VG/PT but pretty damn close. I can out dps them err-day but their single target burst loads up faster than mine. Just saying... you might like the change of pace. And as pro as you guys think you are, there are only 2 counter classes to the assault commando; tanksin/shadow tank and VG/PT. So your whining should go down to a minimum. Heh Played Assault as well. Like gunnery, it's ok - gain some mobility, lose some burst. Still crap in rateds, which is why I'm still waiting to hear from the 'mercs are great' guys which top teams are actually carrying one, or see some awesome rated PvP vids Why continue to play one? Because I have a lot of time invested in this character, and I believe it can be fixed. Edited October 11, 2012 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asukaa Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Heh Played Assault as well. Like gunnery, it's ok - gain some mobility, lose some burst. Still crap in rateds, which is why I'm still waiting to hear from the 'mercs are great' guys which top teams are actually carrying one, or see some awesome rated PvP vids Assault imo has more burst than gunnery... I can take on any gunnery commando head on and kill them before they kill me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) Assault imo has more burst than gunnery... I can take on any gunnery commando head on and kill them before they kill me. The thing is, Arsenal vs Pyro is, you manage heat a lot better and sustain DPS longer, as long as you don't get shut down. Pyro eventually shuts its self down. it is another way that the powertech version is better. It is able to have a 2nd INSTANT ability to proc the railshot that does more damage giving it faster bust as well as more quickly getting that extra vent heat aklong with action free rail shot. Power shot on the merc versions time to cast mittigates it slightly but you have less chance to proc a refresh of railshot before it just finishes its cooldown, and your not doing as much damage while casting.. Edited October 11, 2012 by Technohic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adellion Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Does anybody do Merc heals spec for PvP? I might try it just for a laugh. I do. Healing output isn't as high as sorcs or operatives, so it's not that great, easier for a tank to guard you though as you're a turret healer rather than the mobile operative. But your AoE heals are rubbish, so you have to constantly switch healing from urself to ur tank (and indeed your other teammates). Energy shield makes you immune to interrupts if specced into the healing tree, which combined with 20% increase to healing received when energy shield is active, means that you can heal through 3 DPS (assuming they don't stun you, which makes it advantageous to pop your shield at full resolve). Don't think I've ever died on full resolve with my shield up, but beyond that, operatives are king for healing in pvp imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asukaa Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 The thing is, Arsenal vs Pyro is, you manage heat a lot better and sustain DPS longer, as long as you don't get shut down. Pyro eventually shuts its self down. it is another way that the powertech version is better. It is able to have a 2nd INSTANT ability to proc the railshot that does more damage giving it faster bust as well as more quickly getting that extra vent heat aklong with action free rail shot. Power shot on the merc versions time to cast mittigates it slightly but you have less chance to proc a refresh of railshot before it just finishes its cooldown, and your not doing as much damage while casting.. I think that it might come down to skill when it's commando vs commando or merc vs merc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I think that it might come down to skill when it's commando vs commando or merc vs merc. More than likely. Because if the pyro-merc gets beat by the arsenal when he has fresh CDs and no heat yet; he probably has yet to figure out his interrupt on tracer missile, or using LOS when seeing it cast. In other words, the mobile spec is an idiot for trying to out-turret the turret spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asukaa Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 More than likely. Because if the pyro-merc gets beat by the arsenal when he has fresh CDs and no heat yet; he probably has yet to figure out his interrupt on tracer missile, or using LOS when seeing it cast. In other words, the mobile spec is an idiot for trying to out-turret the turret spec. All in all, you get 3 interrupts on tracer missile. The actual interrupt, the KB and the cryo grenade. That should be enough to shut down the turret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) All in all, you get 3 interrupts on tracer missile. The actual interrupt, the KB and the cryo grenade. That should be enough to shut down the turret. I've yet to see the assault spec I couldn't wreck in a WZ. The KB (and now the cryo) require you to be up close and personal, which means I get to decide exactly where it happens(ie. with no LOS helpful to you). I'll happily lead with a 70% snare full auto, and if you interrupt that I'll spam gravs for another, even harder hitting one. We can play the LOS game all day, but we can both heal ourselves, and I can cleanse your dots. But you know, theorycraft. I suspect you'll disagree, and unless we're on the same server(?) this'll go nowhere. Edited October 11, 2012 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phasersablaze Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I've yet to see the assault spec I couldn't wreck in a WZ. The KB (and now the cryo) require you to be up close and personal, which means I get to decide exactly where it happens(ie. with no LOS helpful to you). I'll happily lead with a 70% snare full auto, and if you interrupt that I'll spam gravs for another, even harder hitting one. We can play the LOS game all day, but we can both heal ourselves, and I can cleanse your dots. But you know, theorycraft. I suspect you'll disagree, and unless we're on the same server(?) this'll go nowhere. I agree Zach. I have played pyro for months at a time in PVP. I still think arsenal is stronger. Before 1.4 I think the case was stronger, since having 2 KBs is important. Yeah, pyro can LOS and move a little better, but that's really only an issue in 1v1 and has nothing to do with winning WZs. Either way the merc class is FUBAR. I have been playing my sentinel, but have finally settled on playing my deception specced assasin. It is much less frustrating. I really have no desire to play a Merc again in PVP unless there are some serious changes... Phaser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DkSharktooth Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) I've yet to see the assault spec I couldn't wreck in a WZ. The KB (and now the cryo) require you to be up close and personal, which means I get to decide exactly where it happens(ie. with no LOS helpful to you). I'll happily lead with a 70% snare full auto, and if you interrupt that I'll spam gravs for another, even harder hitting one. We can play the LOS game all day, but we can both heal ourselves, and I can cleanse your dots. But you know, theorycraft. I suspect you'll disagree, and unless we're on the same server(?) this'll go nowhere. Merc Pyro can also do thermal detonator and explosive dart back to back now. Still sucks though because it's only utility is a terrible knockback and that's just LOL. Edited October 12, 2012 by DkSharktooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Merc Pyro can also do thermal detonator and explosive dart back to back now. Still sucks though because it's only utility is a terrible knockback and that's just LOL. Yeah, and as Phaser pointed out, the loss of the second knockback evens things up a bit as well. But still. assuming we both use dart/sticky I'm not sure that the extra damage of thermal makes up for the burst of a CoF full auto, Hib and Demo round. Sure, Its more burst in a single hit, but I think gunnery has more over 6 seconds. But yeah. Commando/Merc utility. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 The real question here is, why continue to play that class if it's so bad? Why not respec to assault/pyro? I've never played tracer missle/grav round spec so I don't know the full extent of the class, but jesus, if you all complain so much about it, just respec. Assault is so much better. Not better than a VG/PT but pretty damn close. I can out dps them err-day but their single target burst loads up faster than mine. Just saying... you might like the change of pace. And as pro as you guys think you are, there are only 2 counter classes to the assault commando; tanksin/shadow tank and VG/PT. So your whining should go down to a minimum. Honestly Pyro/Assault isn't very much better. It's burst is front loaded which is nice, but it still relies on Charged Bolts/Power Shot to reset HiB if Full Auto fails to do it, or if you want to do it more than once every 15 seconds, and Charged Bolts is just as easy to shutdown as Grav Round with very few of the benefits. That it doesn't guarantee a proc of Plasma Cell is even more insulting. Also you then have to spec into Muzzle Fluting to reduce the cast time, as well as the pushback talent so you can actually maybe get the damn thing off barring an interrupt. I'm never entirely sure why people think Assault is that much more mobile. Are you running around spamming Incendiary Round? That seems contraindicated to me. Gunnery vs Arsenal I'm not actually sure who comes out ahead on that. I'm tempted to say the gunnery guy if only because the armor debuff can't be cleansed while the burns can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I think they see it as more mobile because you don't have to stack with a cast ability 3 times. You do still have to stop to fire most your stuff, but the proc that takes railshot off cool down gives you another high hitting shot more frequently that you can use while moving. Really, it isn't much, but it does provide a little flexibility to move. Either way, Commando/Merc side of the Trooper/BH coin is significantly less effective than the Vanguard/powertech side. The range advantage is kind of nullified by the classes with shorter range either have a pull, a leap or 2, stealth or snare immune super speed, it really makes it laughable to call range an advantage. The only thing I can think of that give merc something is having the healing tree available, but it seems kind of the low man on that area and maybe the least hybrid-able. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asukaa Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Honestly Pyro/Assault isn't very much better. It's burst is front loaded which is nice, but it still relies on Charged Bolts/Power Shot to reset HiB if Full Auto fails to do it, or if you want to do it more than once every 15 seconds, and Charged Bolts is just as easy to shutdown as Grav Round with very few of the benefits. That it doesn't guarantee a proc of Plasma Cell is even more insulting. Also you then have to spec into Muzzle Fluting to reduce the cast time, as well as the pushback talent so you can actually maybe get the damn thing off barring an interrupt. I'm never entirely sure why people think Assault is that much more mobile. Are you running around spamming Incendiary Round? That seems contraindicated to me. Gunnery vs Arsenal I'm not actually sure who comes out ahead on that. I'm tempted to say the gunnery guy if only because the armor debuff can't be cleansed while the burns can be. It very much more mobile because even without casting FA or CB you can still be effective. I only cast/channel when I am being left alone. If someone is in my face, I am not going to sit there and start casting/channeling when I know damn well it's going to be interrupted (unless they're almost dead). I will use my defensive CD's to gain some ground and kite. Assault Plastique is extremely useful here and now coupled with Sticky Grenade it makes it even better. I've taken out tons of people with full health without ever hitting them with a CB or FA. Not saying you shouldn't, but for Assault, it's optional depending on the situation. If you want to max your dmg done then you will have to use them as much as possible, but if you are trying to stay alive/kite/los, you have no reason to stop moving and root yourself to keep the dmg pumping out. And as for spamming Incendiary Round... Really? Really really? Really really really really? Come on dude... Really? Edited October 12, 2012 by Asukaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxIncubixx Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 if you play assault u might aswell just reroll vanguard... that is the issue, vanguard is miles ahead on assault specialist then commando. In others words for the short minded ones... commando assault, is a vanguard with an handicap (even with the range nerf). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Really really really really? Hey now, that's my line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asukaa Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) if you play assault u might aswell just reroll vanguard... that is the issue, vanguard is miles ahead on assault specialist then commando. In others words for the short minded ones... commando assault, is a vanguard with an handicap (even with the range nerf). We all know this. I have my VG with 3 piece WH already and just hit 50 with it a week ago. I'm not hanging up my Commando tho. It's a lot more fun to play than the VG (the handicap makes it more challenging). I'm actually full Tactics on my VG now just cause I wanted to switch it up. Hey now, that's my line. I'm sorry! I had to do it!! Edited October 12, 2012 by Asukaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancer Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Come on fellas, it's Friday! Why is this still going... Yeah I know, I miss my Merc too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainGenos Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Just want to point out you really need to stop saying "Merc" and adjust to "Arsenal" or "Middle tree" Merc. If you choose to take that horrible tree into PvP you deserve to get rocked. Pyro Merc can easily go back to the tops of the list (I do it very very very often). Food for thought PS I only know 1 Powertech Pyro that can outdps me or my guildmate pyro merc Edited October 12, 2012 by CaptainGenos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancer Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Just want to point out you really need to stop saying "Merc" and adjust to "Arsenal" or "Middle tree" Merc. If you choose to take that horrible tree into PvP you deserve to get rocked. Pyro Merc can easily go back to the tops of the list (I do it very very very often). Food for thought PS I only know 1 Powertech Pyro that can outdps me or my guildmate pyro merc If that is directed toward me.. I say Merc because the whole class (IMO) is crap. Not saying I cant achieve good numbers, just is tougher than on my sniper. Not sure how much you PVP but on Jedi Covenant, you will face many PT's who will rock your @## in mere seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dovahbrah Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Just want to point out you really need to stop saying "Merc" and adjust to "Arsenal" or "Middle tree" Merc. If you choose to take that horrible tree into PvP you deserve to get rocked. Pyro Merc can easily go back to the tops of the list (I do it very very very often). Food for thought PS I only know 1 Powertech Pyro that can outdps me or my guildmate pyro merc No one cares how much damage you can do against terrible pugs. Edited October 12, 2012 by Dovahbrah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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