MagnitudeZero Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 From a healer perspective, we're just fine now that Trauma Probe procs from offensive use of hammer shot. Thank god we actually got that talent we were all crying for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancer Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) I didn't come into this game until shortly before 1.2 but I know sorcs had their time to shine, warriors have always been strong, assassins, operatives and snipers have been up and down, PT's of course are fine but I've never heard anyone say... "Remember when Mercs... " Or "Revert mercs back to 1.1" etc, etc... Was just curious.... Even though I've never played one... I have to say... Why did they not get an interrupt for 10 months? They've been on the bottom of the food chain for this long and have really been lacking on the love from BW. I loved my Merc pre 1.2, and that was the only time they we're somewhat respected (IMO). I use the word respected loosely because even then it was an extremely simple rotation using TM. But few would argue over the impressive amount of damage an arsenal merc could do. Edited October 10, 2012 by Mancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Yeah, our 'time' was in the early days before people got geared up (and before the warzones got split into two tiers) when you could just spam gravs/tracers. It didn't last very long. We then had a very short little splutter of life when demo round was bugged and could do nasty burst damage. That was fun while it lasted (and many people thought it was intended to offset the nasty nerfs to an already weak class). We've been on a death spiral for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionflash Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Increase movement speed by 30% for 4 secondes after activating Rocket Punch and Afterburners. #Merc class = saved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DkSharktooth Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Increase movement speed by 30% for 4 secondes after activating Rocket Punch and Afterburners. #Merc class = saved Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionflash Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 ^^ but why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) lol Some utility would make the class more enjoyable at least. So what about if they left the root on punch and added a knockback to tracer missile or railshot. A jet pack jump away from trouble would be nice if you could go up a level in Hutt Ball or just jump away on flat areas a few meters. Of course for the commando mirror, they would do it by pointing that big gun at the ground. Hey! Maybe that would be the extra KB? lol OH. or just add to TM that if you are running toward the Merc, it stops you for just a split second when it hits. Sort of like a stutter step. Just tossing out ideas. Edited October 10, 2012 by Technohic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnitudeZero Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Ye a hunter-style disengage wouldn't go amiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DkSharktooth Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 ^^ but why? The distance covered in this time will not make any difference whatsoever. You are almost always slowed, if not, the distance gap created by 30% movement speed for 4 seconds against any player with a brain, will cause that player to use a ranged ability such as a stun, root, leap, throw or ranged ability. This 30% would look nice on paper but wouldn't solve anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Ye a hunter-style disengage wouldn't go amiss. LOL I think you are talking about WoW, but I am not familiar with the history on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionflash Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 The distance covered in this time will not make any difference whatsoever. You are almost always slowed, if not, the distance gap created by 30% movement speed for 4 seconds against any player with a brain, will cause that player to use a ranged ability such as a stun, root, leap, throw or ranged ability. This 30% would look nice on paper but wouldn't solve anything. okay... 40%? Okay so I'm not PVP balance expert but mobility is what the merc needs, besides being a turret is no fun. Maybe all Merc should have a 15% movements increase permenantly as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaniardInfinity Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 lol Some utility would make the class more enjoyable at least. So what about if they left the root on punch and added a knockback to tracer missile or railshot. A jet pack jump away from trouble would be nice if you could go up a level in Hutt Ball or just jump away on flat areas a few meters. Of course for the commando mirror, they would do it by pointing that big gun at the ground. Hey! Maybe that would be the extra KB? lol OH. or just add to TM that if you are running toward the Merc, it stops you for just a split second when it hits. Sort of like a stutter step. Just tossing out ideas. Give a Commando and Mercenary an enrage timer, either have the third time they are interrupted or if they are still alive after 30 seconds. They can then be immune to interrupts for 10 seconds. Also, instead of having Full Auto snare people, either make it root or have knockback built into the attack. It cannot be interrupted (all kidding aside though, someone explain to me why Ravage/Master Strike is immune to interrupts while Full Auto/Unload -- specifically on a Gunnery/Arsenal -- can be interrupted). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xertasian Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) usually i stay out of these threads..but the whining on mercs/commandos by people who dont understand the class..since im started this gonna explain the reason why mercs/commandos are not terrible in dps.. 1st off this is important..truly no class is terrible or underpowered actually it is the person playing the toon that make it terrible..you can have the best gear around but if you dont understand your class and know how to play to it full capabilities you gonna suck...that is not the fault of the toon but the person playing it.. for starters i see to many commandos and mercs backpedaling while attacking in pvp..thats just wrong if you have to backpedal and keyturn you gonna have problems when a skilled person that mouse turn and uses keybinds get on you..again thats is not the toon fault but the player.. in 50 pvp we all know that skills with cast times is risky for to many classes, cause of interrupt and stuns..like gunnery tree is good but really in pvp its a liability in a sense..i mean one of your best attack skills have a cast to it..any good pvper not gonna let you sit there and hep derp spam gravity round.. actually assault spec is probably your best build for pvp.sure you only spam a few skills.but you is mobile and doing damage..instead of being in 1 spot trying to spam cast your gravity round becoming cannon founder for melee classes..the key word here is mobile..commandos/mercs are made to be on the run when attacking not standing still..for pvp specs that is another subject.. commandos/mercs having problems with melee alot of people say in this thread i dont see how honestly..commandos/mercs have a big advantage over melee in a sense..they are range attackers..meaning if you is mouse turning they can actually attack in a full 360 degree rotation..explain next paragraph what i mean.. a good melee player using keybinds and mouse turning cant actually attack in a 360 degree rotation cuz they will get that message "NOT FACING TARGET" usually.even with strafing they are limited to there melee attack rotations..a commando/merc one that mouse turns and uses keybnds can constantly attack out of melee range at a 360 roatation making it hard for the melee player to get on him even if he do he wont keep up with turning mechanism of the commando/merc.. say a shadow get on you unless he uses a stun or some form of cc to keep you in place for him to attack in melee..he gonna have a hard time closing in on you cause of the range and the constant 360 rotaion movememnt of your merc..sure they have instances of mercs getting force lift and other things but they can get away and go back on the attack.. i could go on about this topic..i think i just wanted to hit a few basic points,,the have more factors to include like team make up, gear and tree specs..your attack rotations with your movements either mouse turnng or backpedaling..anybody think they have more to say please feel free to add on your opinion..i'm pretty sure they have more to talk about .. lastly all the threads on classes being op or classes being terrible..i would say overall most classes are pretty balance..before people come with the fotm issue..a mara can only do much as the person behind playing the toon...again its not the class issue but the player issue..alot of people dont want to admit that the problem is them and they way how they is playing there class.. some people roll a mara or pyrotech think easy pawnage in pvp..they get the gear and still get owned wondering why..its not the class or the gear since you have the best on your toon..only problem it can be is YOU..hope alot of people will actually look at there class in general and try to figure out what you is doing wrong..alot of times that is the problem and the only solution is when you admit to it and better yourself.. Edited October 10, 2012 by Xertasian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 ^^ I know what I have been doing wrong now. I haven't been fighting melee people who have a hard time with facing their target. Shame on my for no L2P. Strictly keyboard turners for me from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalevan Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Commando/Merc, I agree, needs much better survivability. I will admit I haven't been playing in Ranked Warzones because only about 4 at the most ever sign on in my guild at once. And joining PUG Ranked WZ's is worse than PUG regular most of the time. I wouldn't say Commando/Merc is terrible, but I would say their survivability is less than the other classes. We do depend more on healers and that would take away more heals from classes that can stay up longer and do the same if not more damage. I will also say that MOST of the time, it is the fault of the player and less about the class. Commando/Merc definitely needs some love, but overall it isn't as terrible as a lot of people play it. Edited October 10, 2012 by dalevan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volxen Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 usually i stay out of these threads..but the whining on mercs/commandos by people who dont understand the class..since im started this gonna explain the reason why mercs/commandos are not terrible in dps.. 1st off this is important..truly no class is terrible or underpowered actually it is the person playing the toon that make it terrible..you can have the best gear around but if you dont understand your class and know how to play to it full capabilities you gonna suck...that is not the fault of the toon but the person playing it.. for starters i see to many commandos and mercs backpedaling while attacking in pvp..thats just wrong if you have to backpedal and keyturn you gonna have problems when a skilled person that mouse turn and uses keybinds get on you..again thats is not the toon fault but the player.. in 50 pvp we all know that skills with cast times is risky for to many classes, cause of interrupt and stuns..like gunnery tree is good but really in pvp its a liability in a sense..i mean one of your best attack skills have a cast to it..any good pvper not gonna let you sit there and hep derp spam gravity round.. actually assault spec is probably your best build for pvp.sure you only spam a few skills.but you is mobile and doing damage..instead of being in 1 spot trying to spam cast your gravity round becoming cannon founder for melee classes..the key word here is mobile..commandos/mercs are made to be on the run when attacking not standing still..for pvp specs that is another subject.. commandos/mercs having problems with melee alot of people say in this thread i dont see how honestly..commandos/mercs have a big advantage over melee in a sense..they are range attackers..meaning if you is mouse turning they can actually attack in a full 360 degree rotation..explain next paragraph what i mean.. a good melee player using keybinds and mouse turning cant actually attack in a 360 degree rotation cuz they will get that message "NOT FACING TARGET" usually.even with strafing they are limited to there melee attack rotations..a commando/merc one that mouse turns and uses keybnds can constantly attack out of melee range at a 360 roatation making it hard for the melee player to get on him even if he do he wont keep up with turning mechanism of the commando/merc.. say a shadow get on you unless he uses a stun or some form of cc to keep you in place for him to attack in melee..he gonna have a hard time closing in on you cause of the range and the constant 360 rotaion movememnt of your merc..sure they have instances of mercs getting force lift and other things but they can get away and go back on the attack.. i could go on about this topic..i think i just wanted to hit a few basic points,,the have more factors to include like team make up, gear and tree specs..your attack rotations with your movements either mouse turnng or backpedaling..anybody think they have more to say please feel free to add on your opinion..i'm pretty sure they have more to talk about .. lastly all the threads on classes being op or classes being terrible..i would say overall most classes are pretty balance..before people come with the fotm issue..a mara can only do much as the person behind playing the toon...again its not the class issue but the player issue..alot of people dont want to admit that the problem is them and they way how they is playing there class.. some people roll a mara or pyrotech think easy pawnage in pvp..they get the gear and still get owned wondering why..its not the class or the gear since you have the best on your toon..only problem it can be is YOU..hope alot of people will actually look at there class in general and try to figure out what you is doing wrong..alot of times that is the problem and the only solution is when you admit to it and better yourself.. Lmfao, congratulations on missing the entire point of this thread. Yes, we are all aware how great merc is if left alone, and how great it is against inferior players. You might as well just give it up. The "merc is fine" arguments will just continue to get shot down and disproven each and every time. That's what happens when the entire basis for said argument is "I did pretty damn good against those lesser skilled players with my merc, so the class must be fine". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 usually i stay out of these threads..but the whining Do you Xertasian? Do you really? usually i stay out of these topics on gear..truly i think the main point of the whining Really really? i stay out of these threads..from what i been reading it's not the fact of being stunned Really really really? usually i stay away from these discussions..saying that force in balance Really really really really? 1/10 for effort. But I appreciate your dropping by. Have a super smashing day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodes Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I didn't come into this game until shortly before 1.2 but I know sorcs had their time to shine, warriors have always been strong, assassins, operatives and snipers have been up and down, PT's of course are fine but I've never heard anyone say... "Remember when Mercs... " Or "Revert mercs back to 1.1" etc, etc... Was just curious.... You missed all of the horrible players complaining about Tracer Missile spam back in Jan/early Feb. People complained about it as much as people complain about Smash now. These threads started thinning out as people learned to play (snare and interrupt is hard for SW nerds), but a few of them cropped up every once in awhile until 1.2. Here are a few examples that came up from google search: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2735943 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2010378#post2010378 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1074681 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=205369 The problem is that bad players are the first and the loudest complainers on the forums. Happened back then and happens now. Here is my post that I made back in May after all the complaints with the 1.2 changes. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4247294#post4247294 When this game was released, the hot topics the PvP forums regarding balance were: - Nerf sorcs - Nerf mercs and tracer missile. - Ranged > Melee - Healers are too good - Expertise favors healing Guess what, Bioware listened to the community and addressed them. Were the changes misguided? A resounding yes. But I find it ironic that appeasing the complaints only lead to more complaints. The lesson to be learned here is that balance by popular vote (or metrics) is a terrible idea. Most people have no clue about game design/balance and are quicker to blame the game than understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amebia Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Why don't they buff all the classes to the LolMarauderp level? Unsubbed Edited October 10, 2012 by Amebia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraiven Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 usually i stay out of these threads...blah blah blah Hey bud...please tell me you are playing on Prophecy of the Five. I would be so honored to show you just how gimp you really are. You are obviously living in some sort of dream world. Then maybe after I am finished with you, you can come back to this thread and tell us how you *really* feel about Mercs. Maybe then you will be on par with the conversation, while contributing to the thread as a man who knows what he is talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGNbusa Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) Ok first off just throwing this out there for the people who have played this class to the best it allow, and tell me what you pros think. You guys can tweak what i came up with, or just tell me im a moron idc, i have a merc and ive tried playing it, since before 1.2, and i agree the class is garbage the way it sits. What if tracer missile was allowed to be made a instant cast, decrease the damage x% and maybe increase the heat just a touch ( maybe like FB on Pt's)Just so that it wont be made into a 1 button masher ability to kill everything. Make it so you can only have total of 2 tracer lock debuffs increasing the damage of your Hsm's by 5% per stack Allow the TM's to still proc unload with barrage, and to reset rail shots, but this only allowed every so many seconds on the rail shot. Keep unload the way it is, increase the damage just a touch to make it your hardest hitting ability, but with it being channeled it will be situational , since it can be interrupted. Maybe and just maybe make all our abilities 20m (including electrodart) since we will be much more mobile, and being able to move and kite. You guys that play pvp and can crunch numbers really good may have to adjust my idea some, but what does everybody think, am i completely stupid lol. Edited October 11, 2012 by EGNbusa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Do you Xertasian? Do you really? Really really? Really really really? Really really really really? 1/10 for effort. But I appreciate your dropping by. Have a super smashing day. Lol, too funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I know who YOU are! lol Hai Stop smoking my crappy healer!!! lol /hugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraiven Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Ok first off just throwing this out there for the people who have played this class to the best it allow, and tell me what you pros think. You guys can tweak what i came up with, or just tell me im a moron idc, i have a merc and ive tried playing it, since before 1.2, and i agree the class is garbage the way it sits. What if tracer missile was allowed to be made a instant cast, decrease the damage x% and maybe increase the heat just a touch ( maybe like FB on Pt's)Just so that it wont be made into a 1 button masher ability to kill everything. Make it so you can only have total of 2 tracer lock debuffs increasing the damage of your Hsm's by 5% per stack Allow the TM's to still proc unload with barrage, and to reset rail shots, but this only allowed every so many seconds on the rail shot. Keep unload the way it is, increase the damage just a touch to make it your hardest hitting ability, but with it being channeled it will be situational , since it can be interrupted. Maybe and just maybe make all our abilities 20m (including electrodart) since we will be much more mobile, and being able to move and kite. You guys that play pvp and can crunch numbers really good may have to adjust my idea some, but what does everybody think, am i completely stupid lol. Buffing the damage in any way would make the class too OP damage wise. Damage is not the issue at all, it's the inability to keep people off you when most of your attacks require us to root ourselves. Making Tracer Missile instant cast, although would be complete love, I fear would make the class OP...especially if the class ever got the survival tools it needs to keep melee off the class. As far as adding more heat to tracer missile, that would be unnecessary since the heat requirement on it as it stands now will only allow you to fire off so many rounds. If it were to be instant cast, instead of adding heat to it, I would suggest that once your 5 stacks of heat signature has been applied, it becomes unusable on that particular target until that debuff has been used up. But that would require a completely new mechanic, that to the best of my knowledge has never been tried before in any MMO, and would probably take way too much time and resources to get implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Even though I've never played one... I have to say... Why did they not get an interrupt for 10 months? They've been on the bottom of the food chain for this long and have really been lacking on the love from BW. Supposedly, since we had heals, we just had too much utility to risk giving us an interrupt. That would have made us OP. Nevermind that both of the other healing classes had interrupts, and nevermind that in certain PVE fights this made us a liability. You'll notice that in the same patch they gave us an interrupt they added at least one fight where interrupts are absolutely crucial (The Dread Guard). Ok first off just throwing this out there for the people who have played this class to the best it allow, and tell me what you pros think. You guys can tweak what i came up with, or just tell me im a moron idc, i have a merc and ive tried playing it, since before 1.2, and i agree the class is garbage the way it sits. What if tracer missile was allowed to be made a instant cast, decrease the damage x% and maybe increase the heat just a touch ( maybe like FB on Pt's)Just so that it wont be made into a 1 button masher ability to kill everything. Make it so you can only have total of 2 tracer lock debuffs increasing the damage of your Hsm's by 5% per stack Allow the TM's to still proc unload with barrage, and to reset rail shots, but this only allowed every so many seconds on the rail shot. Keep unload the way it is, increase the damage just a touch to make it your hardest hitting ability, but with it being channeled it will be situational , since it can be interrupted. Maybe and just maybe make all our abilities 20m (including electrodart) since we will be much more mobile, and being able to move and kite. You guys that play pvp and can crunch numbers really good may have to adjust my idea some, but what does everybody think, am i completely stupid lol. Awful ideas tbh. Making TM/GR instant cast would swing us too far in the other direction. Cast times are the price you pay for being able to attack from 30m out. Increasing range to 35m on certain abilities for commando (just like Snipers and Sages have though Sages have to spec into it) would be a less impactful choice and while it's probably impossible to stay in that 31-35m sweetspot to stay out of leaps, it'd be something. Much more needed, and my pet suggestion, is a hold the line type ability that grants leap/pull/interrupt immunity for 8s on a 30s cooldown, available very high in the Gunnery/Arsenal tree. Like the above poster said, it's utility we need not damage necessarily. Nerfing the extent to which GR/TM debuffs stack will have implications in PVE since all the other armor debuffs are 20%. Also those abilities don't reset Rail Shot. Just Unload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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