dalevan Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I just don't think you should make blanket statements when you're not aware. I know who YOU are! lol Hai Stop smoking my crappy healer!!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dovahbrah Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 You ppl really need to learn to play your class. I see commandos/Mercs on my server dish out 4-600k in damage in various maps. I know that's not much but it's respectable especially during RWZ. So there was some minor changes, big whoop. Learn to play and stop complaining about being "nerfed" Are you really this dense, or are you really just another fool who looks at the damage on a scoreboard to judge how well one class is doing? What a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henu Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Are you really this dense, or are you really just another fool who looks at the damage on a scoreboard to judge how well one class is doing? What a joke. YEAH how dare he talk about a DPS class getting high DPS in a war zone.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dovahbrah Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) YEAH how dare he talk about a DPS class getting high DPS in a war zone.. Yes, because class performance is solely based on damage done. Get out of here. Edit: and for the record, if there's a merc/commando getting 400-600k damage outside of voidstar and pocket heals, the team they're facing is terrible. Edited October 10, 2012 by Dovahbrah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Yes, because class performance is solely based on damage done. Get out of here. Edit: and for the record, if there's a merc/commando getting 400-600k damage outside of voidstar and pocket heals, the team they're facing is terrible. To be fair, its relatively easy to put out those kind of numbers in any warzone (I've even broken 600k in huttball) in standard WZs, and they're not unusual in long rateds. I may well be the highest damage PvP commando on my server though (I'll leave the mercs to fight it - probably DKSharktooth, who has all but abandoned his) - the average rank and file don't do those kind of numbers. The thing is, ANY dps at the top of their game can do that in the right conditions. I still see the biggest numbers from marauders, sorcs and PTs (and now more frequently from Juggs). With considerably less overhead, and considerably less support. Efficiency is the name of the game - If you bring a commando, you're doing it wrong. Edited October 10, 2012 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Well, there is at least one strategy when playing against PUGs in sub-50 Voidstar. I opened the gate before the last set of doors and I saw a teammate in stealth break for the left door, and I saw the other team about to get released ffrom respawn. I ran toward the right door and they all came at me as I rocket punched, and ran around the junk on the far right side, switching targets. and weaving until somone jumped up on top of one of the boxes, and I even jumped up and punched them, but they finally got me...just as the stealther planted on the other door. People are so set on a merc being an easy kill, I use it against them. Marauders are easily riled when, for example; I punch them near the ramp coming out of the pit in hutt ball (near where the heals spawn) and ignore them and just keep running. They usually jump back to me about when I get near the corner of the pit up by the ramp that takes you up to the catwalk. I then will push them back in the pit and keep going. The madder they get, the more I find I can do as they try to rage on me, they jump while I am near the acid pool and I push them in there, or as I cross fire, and I cure then punch. So I guess, feast on the bads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henu Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Yes, because class performance is solely based on damage done. Get out of here. Edit: and for the record, if there's a merc/commando getting 400-600k damage outside of voidstar and pocket heals, the team they're facing is terrible. Ive gotten 850k DPS in CW, epic battle for the mid flag that no one got, we had 1 healer that did out standing (650k from memory) and looking at the screen shot the other team was pug but far from terrible. i had 50 - 60 kills and the 1 death, i do not put it down to just 1 good healer or a bad team, i put it down to i know how to LOS, kite, heal myself, shield myself, good use of map and good CC use. Im not saying mercs are not lacking in area's but a merc can be very useful if you know what your doing, and since getting the interrupt from the last update ive noticed myself getting better and better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Ive gotten 850k DPS in CW, epic battle for the mid flag that no one got, we had 1 healer that did out standing (650k from memory) and looking at the screen shot the other team was pug but far from terrible. i had 50 - 60 kills and the 1 death, i do not put it down to just 1 good healer or a bad team, i put it down to i know how to LOS, kite, heal myself, shield myself, good use of map and good CC use. Im not saying mercs are not lacking in area's but a merc can be very useful if you know what your doing, and since getting the interrupt from the last update ive noticed myself getting better and better. I'm sorry man, but get over it. You were fighting a PUG. I've seen all kinds of classes top that damage in endless civil wars. In ranked against good teams. Whilst not needing to be propped up. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. (Couldn't resist, sorry) What setups do your top ranked teams run? Many DPS mercs? Edited October 10, 2012 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Ive gotten 850k DPS in CW, epic battle for the mid flag that no one got, we had 1 healer that did out standing (650k from memory) and looking at the screen shot the other team was pug but far from terrible. i had 50 - 60 kills and the 1 death, i do not put it down to just 1 good healer or a bad team, i put it down to i know how to LOS, kite, heal myself, shield myself, good use of map and good CC use. Im not saying mercs are not lacking in area's but a merc can be very useful if you know what your doing, and since getting the interrupt from the last update ive noticed myself getting better and better. All of which you could do better on sniper. Still waiting for that video. No other class kites like we can with our DoT and insta-cast HIB/AP/SG. There's no way I could play gunnery; only channeled ability I use is full auto, and the goal is just to proc my HIB (so no loss if it's interrupted). Are you high? Commando kiting, even in assault, is pretty awful, and even worse after 1.4 with the nerf to sweltering heat. And you play a sentinel. Combat Sent may be one of the hardest melee classes to kite in the game. Also if the only channeled skill you're using is Full Auto then you're a once every 15 seconds trick pony with the burst. Post a video or I'm calling shenanigans on all your claims. The thing people haven't pointed out about sustained damage is that it IS valuable in PvP because it is not burst damage that kills, it is focus fire. The sustained classes are the ones that give fire support to the burst classes who might not be able to finish off a class without exhausting their resources. What a sustained damage class like the merc can do is keep up the pressure on a target while a burst class recuperates resources and goes in for another attack. In Military terms, Sustained classes are the ones that give suppressive fire. Suppressive fire rarely kills but it keeps a target harassed and pinned. Burst classes are the air support, the artillery support, the fireteam you sent out to flank the people pinned by your suppressive fire. Also another military ideal that really does apply here: if you are giving the enemy a fair fight you are doing something badly wrong. Good example is if I'm on my Operative. Now if I pop on a target and they survive the burst, they're going to get healed. Now if I have a Merc friend open up on that guy at the same time, it may just give the extra damage needed to finish off the target or at the very least negate much of the healing it will receive. Snipers have better burst AND better sustained in a warzone environment. And two well coordinated burst classes can just alternate to steamroll through an entire team. Suppressive fire is only useful if you can make them keep their heads down and commando can't do that because they can be leapt to, interrupted and then shut down. Sorry, but do you even play this class? It's the melee in peoples faces that makes people keep their heads down for the artillery to land from range in this game. Dead serious, anyone under focus fire without support will die instantly. Not a problem with Mercs specifically, but TTK in general. Escape mechanisms barely come into play, most likely you're chain stunned and/or defensives are on CD. Happens to me all the time and I'm wearing medium armor, so I die even faster than a merc! Lets not get too specific about circumstances, if this and that etc etc, in general this is what happens when good teams have excellent focus coordination. Thus, invalid argument. Sorry but you don't know what getting focus fired IS then if you honestly think it's as bad for you as it is for Merc/Commando. Have you ever been a sentinel that got focus fired when you had absolutely no defensive cooldowns? You know how you died before you realized you'd been engaged? That is commando ALL THE TIME. The problem is that other classes have defensive cooldowns that they can use when they're in a badspot. Reactive Shield and Adrenaline Rush both need to be blown early on in the fight because they will never EVER actually save you unless you're Heal spec and can use a full resolve bar + reactive shield to heal yourself to full while laughing at everything uselessly trying to finish you off. Back when Charged Barrier granted 10% DR I might have believed we could stand and fight a little. CM hybrids were using it to become invincible though, so instead of just moving it higher in the tree to keep the hybrids away, they flat out nerfed it. Also there's focus fire, and then there's focus fire. A commando can and will fold like a cheap card table in any uneven situation. Too easy to shut down and make impotent. Yes even assault. My shadow, my sent, and even my sniper can make people pay cash when I'm on the bad side of a 2v1. You nonchalantly dismissed the idea of using your AoE mez but that ability is amazing. SO useful. I'd kill for it on commando. Will any class fold under focus fire from all 4 of the other team's DPS? Yeah. But there are plenty of classes that can stall a 1v2, and sometimes even a 1v3, and being able to force that kind of uneven change is what Warzone victories are made of. If commando at least shined when in the middle of a zerg that would be one thing, but really they only go from "totally useless" to "good damage on par with other classes, so long as they're left alone", which just begs the question why aren't you bringing a class that does the on par damage but DOESN'T need their hand held. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) why aren't you bringing a class that does the on par damage but DOESN'T need their hand held. And that, right there, is the problem. Played to the best extent possible, by the best players. the class can achieve pretty much the same as any other top DPS, but will need many more times the support to do so. And don't ever leave a DPS commando guarding a node. Edited October 10, 2012 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dovahbrah Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Ive gotten 850k DPS in CW, epic battle for the mid flag that no one got, we had 1 healer that did out standing (650k from memory) and looking at the screen shot the other team was pug but far from terrible. i had 50 - 60 kills and the 1 death, i do not put it down to just 1 good healer or a bad team, i put it down to i know how to LOS, kite, heal myself, shield myself, good use of map and good CC use. Im not saying mercs are not lacking in area's but a merc can be very useful if you know what your doing, and since getting the interrupt from the last update ive noticed myself getting better and better. I maintain my statement. If you're getting that much damage in a warzone as a merc, the team you're facing is terrible. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Ive gotten 850k...blah blah blah Flow chart time: Do you play on a ranked team? ---> No ---> No one cares how awesome you are against PUGs. | | Yes ---> Post a video, or it didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DkSharktooth Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Yes ---> Post a video, or it didn't happen. Merc success against good players in ranked warzones is a myth. This is the only possibility for mercs in ranked: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Merc success against good players in ranked warzones is a myth. This is the only possibility for mercs in ranked: At least that merc had a jet pack to fly there. I want one. It doesn't even have to carry me that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraiven Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Merc was the worst class for pvp....and they got more nerfs. How in the hell do you nerf the worst class in game? Talk about kicking us when we're down. The nerf to the Knock Back and the nerf to the stun range was the straw that broke the camel's back. A retarded root? A freakin root that only lasts 2 seconds? Yes, 2 seconds, because in PvP, you are almost always being hit, so that 4 seconds is almost always 2 seconds. Even if it was 4 seconds, it wouldn't be enough. The knock back was great...it's what the class needed...arg...frustrating. Sadly, you have people in General Discussion thread claiming they love the root, they do just fine in PvP with their merc...blah blah blah. And sadly, for as long as a single person claims they do fine with their Merc and love the changes...Bioware will never fix the class. Edited October 10, 2012 by Wraiven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraiven Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Ive gotten 850k DPS in CW, epic battle for the mid flag that no one got, we had 1 healer that did out standing (650k from memory) and looking at the screen shot the other team was pug but far from terrible. i had 50 - 60 kills and the 1 death, i do not put it down to just 1 good healer or a bad team, i put it down to i know how to LOS, kite, heal myself, shield myself, good use of map and good CC use. Im not saying mercs are not lacking in area's but a merc can be very useful if you know what your doing, and since getting the interrupt from the last update ive noticed myself getting better and better. Dude, you do realize you are not talking to idiots here, right? You do realize that most of us have been PvPing since you were playing with your Lego Blocks in your play pen? You do realize that most likely, most of us have mastered how to play this game and PvP with damn near every class in game, right? You do realize that most of us here, know how to play the game, know how to use a Merc to it's optimize abilities and most of us can destroy...utterly destroy any Merc in game, no matter what player is playing them, right? You do realize that most of us play on PvP servers, not some goof ball PvE server who think they are PvPers because they can destroy PvE players who try and PvP...most of us...PvP is just not a pass time....it's a way of life. Yet you are going to sit here and try and blow smoke up our rear ends and think that we are going to fall for your wild tall tales of stories of war and honor? As said before, Video, or it didn't happen. And if you do produce a video, please do not post a video of you being healed by a pocket healer, or being a Tank's constant focus of protection attention, or playing against some gimp team, or being a pre-made vs a random pug. We will spot that crap from a mile away and *WILL* call you out on it. Sorry to be a jerk about it, dude...but you have to understand that I am sick of people coming to these boards and making bold claims that just simply are bold faced lies...without having some proof to back it up. And in the fraction of a percentage that you are being completely honest, and you have somehow managed to pull off a miracle, then I apologize...but I am 100% positive that this is clearly not the case and you are 100% BSing the people on these boards. Edited October 10, 2012 by Wraiven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soljin Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 The Merc/Commando Community is full of people that cannot resist coming into threads about Merc/Commando shortfalls and brag about how skilled they are and how high their numbers are blah blah blah....Its ridiculous. Most of them in the same breath will then say "Yeah Merc does need some buffs maybe though"...Derp. I dont get it. Merc/Commando needs serious help...The AC is not even built properly anymore...Its like Some kinda Ranged Tank design thats missing the TANK part...They are forced into melee to defend themselves but have no way to escape melee range once they are in it....and definately cannot survive in melee range either. So Summary: You cant control an opponent from range...so you have to let them gap you...then you can start to control them....but they can also now control you...and you have ZERO ways to get distance from them...Oh and you have one survival skill with 25% dmg reduction...which you will get CC'd through or with the current TTK just get murdered anyway...while you try to run..snared...and bleeding...and on fire....or rooted...need I go on. Merc/Commando is designed poorly...the class suffers from it, it cannot 1v1 and contrary to popular belief this game if you cannot 1v1 your a liability for team play. Merc/Commando is good for one thing...Being my Biochem bot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancer Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Just delete the class and be done with it and give everyone a refund. Or turn the POS that folks leveled to 50 into a PT. Or at least a choice to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancer Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Dude, you do realize you are not talking to idiots here, right? You do realize that most of us have been PvPing since you were playing with your Lego Blocks in your play pen? You do realize that most likely, most of us have mastered how to play this game and PvP with damn near every class in game, right? You do realize that most of us here, know how to play the game, know how to use a Merc to it's optimize abilities and most of us can destroy...utterly destroy any Merc in game, no matter what player is playing them, right? You do realize that most of us play on PvP servers, not some goof ball PvE server who think they are PvPers because they can destroy PvE players who try and PvP...most of us...PvP is just not a pass time....it's a way of life. The sad part is that they truly do NOT get it, complete tunnel vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Just saw on the class forums that a few abilities are broken. I was wondering if they really were but never cared to investigate as I likely will just be done with Merc and move on. I'm not even sure why I care about them under-performing at all, other than I wish there would be a reason for me to revisit the class some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volxen Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Dude, you do realize you are not talking to idiots here, right? You do realize that most of us have been PvPing since you were playing with your Lego Blocks in your play pen? You do realize that most likely, most of us have mastered how to play this game and PvP with damn near every class in game, right? You do realize that most of us here, know how to play the game, know how to use a Merc to it's optimize abilities and most of us can destroy...utterly destroy any Merc in game, no matter what player is playing them, right? You do realize that most of us play on PvP servers, not some goof ball PvE server who think they are PvPers because they can destroy PvE players who try and PvP...most of us...PvP is just not a pass time....it's a way of life. Yet you are going to sit here and try and blow smoke up our rear ends and think that we are going to fall for your wild tall tales of stories of war and honor? As said before, Video, or it didn't happen. And if you do produce a video, please do not post a video of you being healed by a pocket healer, or being a Tank's constant focus of protection attention, or playing against some gimp team, or being a pre-made vs a random pug. We will spot that crap from a mile away and *WILL* call you out on it. Sorry to be a jerk about it, dude...but you have to understand that I am sick of people coming to these boards and making bold claims that just simply are bold faced lies...without having some proof to back it up. And in the fraction of a percentage that you are being completely honest, and you have somehow managed to pull off a miracle, then I apologize...but I am 100% positive that this is clearly not the case and you are 100% BSing the people on these boards. Lmfao, I think you've managed to scare them away now. They know that they cannot prove they beat actual good teams in ranked warzones. They know any videos they have would contain all of the things you just mentioned. They simply keep saying over, and over, and over that they did so much damage in a ranked warzone, and that because it took place in a ranked warzone, that in of itself automatically makes the class "fine". They just can't seem to fathom the possibility that even in ranked warzones they are encountering far inferior players and THAT is the reason for the so-called "success" they are having on their mercs. I think at this point, the argument that "mercs are fine" has been completly shut down and proven to be a falsehood in every respect. Anyone who continues to argue this is just desperate to keep up the illusion that they are one of the few "God's" of the class, when in reality their success with the class simply attributed to the fact that they are fighting far inferior players, even in ranked warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Mercs aren't terrible... the players who play them are terrible.... No, I'm just kidding... your class kinda sucks. Is Merc the ONLY class that hasn't had it moment in the FOTM spotlight so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Mercs aren't terrible... the players who play them are terrible.... No, I'm just kidding... your class kinda sucks. Is Merc the ONLY class that hasn't had it moment in the FOTM spotlight so far? I think early on it was when people were still learning the game. Someone mentioned about how the hybrid DPS/Healer was then. I am just not sure if that would translate now that other classes have come up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I think early on it was when people were still learning the game. Someone mentioned about how the hybrid DPS/Healer was then. I am just not sure if that would translate now that other classes have come up a bit. I didn't come into this game until shortly before 1.2 but I know sorcs had their time to shine, warriors have always been strong, assassins, operatives and snipers have been up and down, PT's of course are fine but I've never heard anyone say... "Remember when Mercs... " Or "Revert mercs back to 1.1" etc, etc... Was just curious.... Even though I've never played one... I have to say... Why did they not get an interrupt for 10 months? They've been on the bottom of the food chain for this long and have really been lacking on the love from BW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) I didn't come into this game until shortly before 1.2 but I know sorcs had their time to shine, warriors have always been strong, assassins, operatives and snipers have been up and down, PT's of course are fine but I've never heard anyone say... "Remember when Mercs... " Or "Revert mercs back to 1.1" etc, etc... Was just curious.... Even though I've never played one... I have to say... Why did they not get an interrupt for 10 months? They've been on the bottom of the food chain for this long and have really been lacking on the love from BW. I didn't play one very far until right before 1.4. The only thing I can think of on why they didn't have an interrupt is they had 2 knock backs which could be used as an interrupt as a secondary role. Of course, that is voided if someone had a full resolve bar, but after 1.4 where it would be more reliable, now a root. FWIW, I do like the root, but I don't think they would have killed balance to have just added a root to merc and left the KB ability separate. EDIT: Should clarify, 2 KBs when specced in arsenal. Edited October 10, 2012 by Technohic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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