Why do people hate SWTOR, really?

[solo-nite]

It's EA's greed that's destroying the game plain and simple. They too impatient to release that all MMO's in their first year struggles.

 

EA was obviously expecting most the 11 million subscribers to leave WoW to go to SWTOR, it was not going to happen. The panic button at launch should of not been pressed and opened "way" too many servers for launch. What they had at early access was fine they just need to increase server population and allow they to balance themselves out instead they made too many and everyone got spread out over tons of servers.

 

People complained about ghost servers and left. They should of completed the "server mergers" and allow a few months to see how it went but no of course EA are not happy with the money and plan to make us pay left right and center.

 

They can do it in The Secret World (game/sub/micro transactions) which is also another MMO that they are backing up why not get SWTOR to pay for micro transactions too?

 

Seriously between EA and activision they are destroying the gaming world with greed.

Edited August 2, 2012 by solo-nite

[Yinata]

Comes down to 2 things.

 

1. Bioware is not a trustable MMO Developer, they have been designing and implementing part of this cash shop(Legacy System) and selling it to us subscribers as content. The fact is F2P systems aren't just designed in 3 months time span(From August-Nov that's what they're saying at least) so they've known about this for much longer than they are telling us, likely since the last investor call in the Spring/Early Summer. In other words they lied to us for months, milked us for sub fees, and due to EA's track record with F2P systems this game will be P2W before long, and I'm not sticking around to see it. Also they are lieing to subscribers saying content will be coming out faster, they can't even deliver content under the sub model, what makes you think that having to design content for both a F2P and sub model is going to make this rate any faster, w/o a massive hiring of better staff this was a blatant lie by them.

 

2. EA is a company that many of us will never buy an MMO from again, and for me likely any game due to the sour taste I have left after this debacle. They had planned this F2P system for a long time, they've likely been spending much of their developing time on it, and given us light fluff and little content in game to keep what subs they had left playing until they could finally implement what they always wanted a P2W cash shop.

 

Tell me I'm wrong, tell me a lot of things, but come November 2013 this game will be P2W and any fanbois left will see that many of us that are leaving for a promising PvP experience on August 28 were right to do so.

 

The lesson of the day is........

 

Don't trust BioFail and EA they are both face deep in their own sewage............

[Darth_Pants]

MMO newbies who don't realize MMOs have to grow and evolve. Impatience. Stupidity. TOR's naysayers are ungrateful, spoiled babies basically. And they are largely the reason the F2P option was added. They filled the Internet with so many negative comments that new players stopped coming. They killed TOR before a year. They killed it before it had a chance to evolve and grow. 8 months.

 

Tor failed because it was crap. Blaming the players for not paying hundreds of dollars just to get the game hey want? Easily the worst excuse I have heard.

[aristein]

I don't get it either. I have tried many mmo's and looked at many more over the last 7 years searching for a mmo to play. Now that I find one with the quality and immersion I was looking for, it goes f2p in less than a year?! *** just happened? I heard all the BS from those that skipped right through the story (and game really) and then complain there is no end game and pvp isn't as good as pvp game. Well, come on, there are 8 stories and classes to play through and enjoy. Maybe if ppl didn't skip through the game and start complaining about the endgame in the first couple months, there would be enough subs to support major endgame expansions. Many of the bugs, complains, etc that I have heard are fixed, the bigger ones like pvp changes and endgame expansions take some time, planning, etc to get it right.

 

Anyway, I am just floored by the f2p announcement I just heard. After so many years looking for the right mmo to enjoy, it looks like this one is in it's death throws before it is even a year old .

[Holy_Wars]

I hate it because:

 

They merged servers way too late.

Not enough character slots after mergers.

Game is too linear.

Too many instances.

Space combat is PvE rail shooter.

No carbines for bounty hunters.

Pink lightsabers.

All stories (except maybe Imperial Agent) suck ***, especially when compared to their previous games.

Classes are mirrored between factions. (helps balance yes, but takes away from replayability)

Too many stuns.

Leveling is way to fast.

Lack of end game content.

Voidstar.

Art design is kinda lame. Most armor looks like a jump suit.

All body models are stupid except for female body 2 and maybe male body 3. No athletic body type. It's either scrawny or super hulk.

 

Biggest issue for me is just how easy and accessible everything is. I was almost never challenged with this game. There's no sense of immersion with all the flight paths, fleet passes, maps, linear level deigns, etc. No sense of exploration. Both fleets look the same. All space stations and stuff look the same. etc etc etc.

[Valerii]

I never hated SWTOR, nor did the 80+ members of the pvp-only guild I belonged to. Some of us became frustrated, others bored, and eventually all of us quit. If they ever get it sorted out, I believe some of us would return

[Kubernetic]

So this is something I've been turning over in my head lately, and yesterday's F2P announcement has driven me to ask this out loud (so to speak). Why do people hate SWTOR so much?

 

I love this game. It has great immersion, really awesome class stories, it runs well on my computer (which I wouldn't consider high-end", and BW managed to balance things out so Jedi didn't steam-roll everyone.

 

There are a few things I wish would change (daily quest system, world pvp, and other minor issues), but nothing is really a big enough deal to un-sub for me.

 

So what is the problem? Maybe one of you can enlighten me.

 

I think it has to do with the story material, and how much people love it.

 

The more a property engages people on a core emotional level, like Star Wars did for so many, and Star Trek does for many others, the more those people have some vested interest in a game coming out that matches THEIR interpretation of their beloved story.

 

As such, when a game comes out that "misses the mark" in that regard, those players usually wind up being VERY upset... almost as if some part of their core being had been botched. It also seems to prevent people from remaining open-minded and open-ended about such projects, instead driving them toward some inner fantasy that is fully detailed that, again, when it doesn't match up to the game that was actually produced, leads them to become very angry.

 

In SWTOR's case, you also have a number of players who were so inherently sold on SWG, that when SWTOR came out and wasn't SWG 2.0, they flipped out.

 

All of this combines to form a perfect storm of angst and irrationality when SWTOR surfaces and is a different game than the ones these folks were expecting.

 

I was actually the opposite. I had no interest in playing this game. I was convinced it was going to be just another snoozefest and wasn't going to be worthy of the Star Wars title. Needless to say, I have been incredibly surprised, and pleasantly so, and have found the game to be more than worthy of the Star Wars moniker. It is absolutely my new game, and hopefully will be for a long time to come.

[CarverX]

I love this game and still for ME it is the best thing out there. The story leveling was great and SO much better than aoe grinding on some 10,000 of the same farm animal like in 99.9% of other mmo's.

 

However, it is not the inventive and immersible SW experience I thought it would be. In fact it may look like SW but it feels nothing like it. All those planets feel empty and quiet. The community feels mostly dead. I could only compare it to running around in a wax museum. There is just something missing in that whole area. Most importantly I think it's that as a community there is nothing to 'do" except flashpoints and operations.

 

Great as it is though, many mistakes have been made along the way. The problems we dealt with at launch were known issues and should have been addressed before release. Especially the character low rez textures which frankly was a bizarre choice to open with in 2012.

 

You teased us with the plague which was a great surprise and a lot of fun, but then....nothing.

 

You listened to too many forum whiners and nerfed the wrong classes and not others which considering the number of people who had leveled those classes first, was a huge mistake.

 

You gave in to people asking for group related things like the lazy group finder and ranked for team only warzones and ignored the solo common player which is the majority of subscriptions. You made the hard tasks simple and the simplest tasks too expensive. You also took too long to deal with some of the pathetic armor designs we have to look at day in and day out.

 

You communicated poorly with the subscribers in the opinion of a lot of players.

 

I still love playing this game but hopefully you will learn from these past 7 months and improve this game to what it could and should become.

[Crimson_Merc]

This pretty much sums up my feelings exactly. I love the genere and was prepared to put up with the lack of the usual basic MMO parts while it developed, but you have to keep the player base fed or the game will never get the chance to get that far. For me, the low server population and limited group experience meant that I pretty much played a single player game. What updates there were just added fluff that eroded the look and feel of the Star Wars universe (as I see it). Sadly my guild dried up and died as other people felt the same way. I canced my sub today.

 

A lot of people feel that way. That's why subscriptions are dipping. They just went below the 1 million mark and in the fall the game is going to be free to play. It is a good free to play game, but not a game that is worth shelling out $15 a month for. All of us who have stayed at least 6 months should seriously get a refund for dumping out our cash to EA. There needs to be major changes and updates to this game or its gunna fold up like a lawn chair.

 

A suggestion Bioware: listen to your customers!!!! If this game had all of the features of KOTOR II, but upgraded for a more modern time with some "new" features this game would have been a lot better. I still have hope even though it has diminished significantly. Prove me wrong is all that I am saying.

[Beslley]

This !

 

Given the resources they had, they only managed to make a very, very mediocre game, based on design philosophies from 2004.

 

Also it often does not feel like Star Wars or KOTOR - see armor design.

 

Exactly this.

I had such high hopes for this game. I'd been burned out with WoW, saddened how it deteriorated in WOTLK. Played Cata for a bit, wasn't feeling it. I was looking to move on to greener pastures, and I'd loved Bioware games for years (with the exception of DA2. I thought it was just a hiccup at the time, but now I know better. I should have seen the writing on the wall). I wanted this game to be good. I was practically on my knees begging for this game to be good.

 

Then it launched and I was so excited and then the new game rush wore off and what was left was a half-finished, unoptimized, buggy mess. I held out hope, but first impressions are the biggest.

I've waited for months for the end game raid content to get better. It hasn't. Denova is the same old same old, no lasting power, no challenge. PvP is stale, PvE is a joke. I've leveled two toons to 50, don't really have the desire to do another one.

 

I came in ready to play for years, like I did with WoW, but in the end, all I got was a lot of disappointment and heartache.

 

On the plus side, I have about fifty games I picked up on the cheap during the Steam Summer Sale, so at least I'm not wanting for good games

Edited August 2, 2012 by Beslley

[Graveside]

I've been gaming here since Beta, and have interacted with many players on a few servers, and I think the word "hate" is inaccurate. The word most use to describe their feelings toward TOR is frustration. The massive disconnect between the game developers (and other higher ups) and players was pretty pathetic. BW would rather throw a "discuss this" thread up, and rarely address the important questions, matter of fact they chose to ignore the most popular questions/concerns all the time. Whether it was BW, EA or LA who are to blame, the game had/has a ton of potential, but when you choose to ignore the glowing issues plaguing the game, the massive PvP popularity that grew about, and rarely discuss important issues within the game with your player base (The weekly Q/A threads were a joke lol)....you get F2P option and cancellations.

 

It amazes me to this day, how big companies like EA still don't get it, congrats on your failure.

 

EA completely gets it...they want games that are developed and sold. I spectulate EA does not want to maintain a video game that would need continous growth and develop, plus changes in grapics and coding the longer it stays alive. EA acquired BIO in an effort to ensure no other company would get the greatiness that was coming from BIO prior to EA's befuddle fingers.

 

I also blame some of BIO's developers for not listening to some alpha/beta (1st testers) that mentioned some little things that needed to be addressed. These developers imo were following to much of WoW's design and didn't go away from that besides the story-line questing.

[Bryyn]

People are mad because BioWare hyped this game throught the roof. They made grandiose claims like having 50 more planets planned, zones two to three times the size of a WoW zone etc. There was so much false hype that it was a HUGE let down for the fan base when they got to play and realized just how much the game lacked. I also think people are mad because they dont understand how a game with the largest budget in MMO history and a IP like Star Wars attached to it could have missed the mark so hard.

 

BioWare did hype this game through the roof. But they didn't hype anything they didn't have already had in the game. They hyped the "forth pillar" through the roof, and that's the one thing people, including the haters, said they got right. Even you are saying that. I don't see how the hype was false. As for the zones (if you mean planets) two to three times the size of a WoW zone, they didn't hype this. Beta players did. And I would say some of these planets are two to three times the size of WoW zones. They're just linear as you pointed out.

 

50 more planets planned. I don't see how BioWare failed on something in planning stages, since planning is just that, planning. Matter of fact, there are several instances that point to this planning. For one, you have Makeb. Secondly, information has been datamined indicating Varl and Lehon do exist to a degree.

 

Its like the devs decided to build this game with zero idea of what the average MMO gamer wanted.

I'm still trying to figure out what the average MMO gamer wants.

 

People on one side wanted Sorcs nerfed. People on the other side didn't want Sorcs nerfed. People on one side wanted Operatives nerfed. People on the other side didn't want Operatives nerfed. The community can't even decide.

 

I stand by the fact that if people wanted this much story they would buy a book.

 

You stand by the OPINION that if people wanted this much story they would buy a book. It's not a fact. I however stand by the fact that KOTOR was a popular game by many players, as well as Mass Effect, and those had story. Games can be a medium for story just as well as any book.

 

Class/companion stories, ok, but they should have taken all the rest of that wasted money on VO and put it into game functionality, upgrading the engine, functionality, mini games, and making the game less linear. The replayability is ****, how many times do I have to storm Castle Panteer and kill Boris Ulgo.... Really....

 

I agree with you here; except for the mini-games. I'm of the mind, and the experience, that only a few select people play mini-games in any MMO.

[BeenThere]

To me as soon as you take a great rpg single player game like KOTOR , and make a MMO , it loses something it gets put into a MMO mold ...they said after level 10 they were going to force you to group to to get all the great game play out of SWTOR....that is what is wrong with SWTOR ....Bioware is not going to make a KOTOR 3 for it's fans of that game , no SWTOR is that game for you....no options you will play SWTOR to get your KOTOR fix ...well Bioware it failed ....SWTOR has some great moments ,but over all after level 20 it fails to keep players hooked it is no KOTOR...it is a gutted out version of KOTOR , if you like any other WOW clone as far a game play it is right up there with the grinding , grouping, guild stuff you want to shove down the single player rpg players throat.

 

I hope more game developers learn that not everyone wants their rpgs turns into gutted MMO's with same MMO format of WOW . Bioware you can do better then that...even Earth and Beyond had better space combat then the rail game play you put in SWTOR. The more I played SWTOR the less contection I felt to my crew members , and ship, I just didn't care ...I wanted to ......but SWTOR is no KOTOR there just wasn't same storyline pull that drew you in like in KOTOR after level 20 it just became a grind ...so yes you did get that part right for a MMO. If SWTOR makes it to the 2 year mark it would be a wonder...I beleive most subscription will stop with F2P, and so will the players , you have free to play up to level 15 ,and most servers are ghost towns now ,so now you are making it free to play up to level 50....how is that going to help. SWTOR is now getting gutted again for F2P...let us take 2 crew members like in Mass Effect when doing a quest give us some more skills with power...make the game fun to play instead of the MMO grind to get 2 levels higher to defeat the boss in the storyline, I would pay you 15 dollars a month again. Make the areas on the planets bigger to explorer make them open like Skyrim , SWG had them, WOW has them....that's worth 15 dollars a month. That's what a MMO's should be a big open world to explore , and play in. If I wanted to grind , and feel powerless , I would just go to work , and pay my taxes.

[LordHartigan]

Sooo... you want your leveling gameplay to continue and you want endgame content to be tapered back... which, would cause more of the subscribers on here to complain MORE about lack of engame content? Are you trying to make it go 100% F2P?

 

And FYI: Endgame IS Ops, Fps, and WZ's, not more levels.

 

Not quite the way I meant to put it. I wouldn't say I want endgame ops, wz, etc. tapered back. They can add more, I just would like to see this supposedly story centric continue the class stories and overall story.

[Wiryu]

I'm actually totally cool with swtor. Can't wait to see how far it's come along after a year or two.

[Yinata]

So this is something I've been turning over in my head lately, and yesterday's F2P announcement has driven me to ask this out loud (so to speak). Why do people hate SWTOR so much?

 

I love this game. It has great immersion, really awesome class stories, it runs well on my computer (which I wouldn't consider high-end", and BW managed to balance things out so Jedi didn't steam-roll everyone.

 

There are a few things I wish would change (daily quest system, world pvp, and other minor issues), but nothing is really a big enough deal to un-sub for me.

 

So what is the problem? Maybe one of you can enlighten me.

 

Yes this game is so balanced, Pyrotechs/Vanguards using a 3-4 button rotation are running rampant through warzones, and Bioware has done nothing since April to fix class balance in PvP. Guess what they spent their time doing developing a F2P and ultimately P2W system that will ruin this game further. The reason people hate SWTOR is that it's a very shallow MMO experience that was sold based on "story"(V/O that cost a lot of their budget). Guess what once you hit 50 no one cares about the story, and if they had spent half the time they spent on voice over working on their combat system or other features, this game wouldn't have failed and gone F2P in 6 months.

 

People don't just hate this game now, they hate BioFail(Worst MMO Developer in Recent History), and EA.

 

In other words they hate everything about the game, the game itself, the Developer, and the Company that's pulling the developers strings.

 

Oh and also they lied to subscribers for the last 6ish months, and used our money to develop a F2P system while giving us light fluff type patches that did nothing to retain subscribers or gain new ones. In other words they lied to all of us, knew they were going F2P for 6 months now, and just told people now after they had reaped in sub fees over that time when a lot of us would have left back then and not wasted our time.

[LordHartigan]

To me as soon as you take a great rpg single player game like KOTOR , and make a MMO , it loses something it gets put into a MMO mold ...they said after level 10 they were going to force you to group to to get all the great game play out of SWTOR....that is what is wrong with SWTOR ....Bioware is not going to make a KOTOR 3 for it's fans of that game , no SWTOR is that game for you....no options you will play SWTOR to get your KOTOR fix ...well Bioware it failed ....SWTOR has some great moments ,but over all after level 20 it fails to keep players hooked it is no KOTOR...it is a gutted out version of KOTOR , if you like any other WOW clone as far a game play it is right up there with the grinding , grouping, guild stuff you want to shove down the single player rpg players throat.

 

I really fail to see how that is remotely accurate. A gutted version of KOTOR? What did KOTOR have that this game doesn't? A central story with lots of subquests? check. Companions? check. Explorable personal ship? check. It has EVERY major element that KOTOR had plus raiding and a lot of other stuff. Are you telling me that KOTOR has a ton a replay value that SWTOR doesn't?

[TUXs]

So this is something I've been turning over in my head lately, and yesterday's F2P announcement has driven me to ask this out loud (so to speak). Why do people hate SWTOR so much?

 

I don't think many (if any) of us hate SWTOR...we all bought it and are still paying for it. We HATE how it's been handled though, for a number of reasons, but almost all legit ones.

[--Grim--]

I don't hate SWTOR, the lower levels are a lot of fun at first.

 

The game just gets very boring, very quickly. And the space rail game is a joke.

[Rasticles]

Love the game, Hate EAWare.......

[LordHartigan]

Yes this game is so balanced, Pyrotechs/Vanguards using a 3-4 button rotation are running rampant through warzones, and Bioware has done nothing since April to fix class balance in PvP. Guess what they spent their time doing developing a F2P and ultimately P2W system that will ruin this game further. The reason people hate SWTOR is that it's a very shallow MMO experience that was sold based on "story"(V/O that cost a lot of their budget). Guess what once you hit 50 no one cares about the story, and if they had spent half the time they spent on voice over working on their combat system or other features, this game wouldn't have failed and gone F2P in 6 months.

 

People don't just hate this game now, they hate BioFail(Worst MMO Developer in Recent History), and EA.

 

In other words they hate everything about the game, the game itself, the Developer, and the Company that's pulling the developers strings.

 

Oh and also they lied to subscribers for the last 6ish months, and used our money to develop a F2P system while giving us light fluff type patches that did nothing to retain subscribers or gain new ones. In other words they lied to all of us, knew they were going F2P for 6 months now, and just told people now after they had reaped in sub fees over that time when a lot of us would have left back then and not wasted our time.

 

After reading a lot of the hater posts I just have to wonder about a broade issue. What is it about some segement of gamers that allows them with a straight face to make statements with ZERO evidence or basis in reality?

[Yinata]

After reading a lot of the hater posts I just have to wonder about a broade issue. What is it about some segement of gamers that allows them with a straight face to make statements with ZERO evidence or basis in reality?

 

There's a great mystical tool called Google, if you want to research EA's F2P conversion debacles into P2W, and their views on these subjects, do them yourself, I am already aware of their implementation of P2W in every MMO they've gone this route with.

 

Now Go the Search Button is a few clicks away and you will be smarter for doing so, you will stop putting your faith in EA, and see why so many of us unsubbed once we heard this game was going F2P because we are all too aware of their way of implementing such systems.

 

Want proof stop being lazy and go google it yourself, people who say something is false because it doesn't have a link don't understand that hmmmmm maybe we've tried these other fail F2P games EA has been involved with and seen for ourselves the P2W items in their cash shops, what do you want me to do put it in APA/MLA format so you know it's legitimate.

 

Go Google F2P Conversion and Age of Conan and see what I mean........

Edited August 2, 2012 by Yinata

[LordHartigan]

There's a great mystical tool called Google, if you want to research EA's F2P conversion debacles into P2W, and their views on these subjects, do them yourself, I am already aware of their implementation of P2W in every MMO they've gone this route with.

 

Now Go the Search Button is a few clicks away and you will be smarter for doing so, you will stop putting your faith in EA, and see why so many of us unsubbed once we heard this game was going F2P because we are all too aware of their way of implementing such systems.

 

Want proof stop being lazy and go google it yourself, people who say something is false because it doesn't have a link don't understand that hmmmmm maybe we've tried these other fail F2P games EA has been involved with and seen for ourselves the P2W items in their cash shops, what do you want me to do put it in APA/MLA format so you know it's legitimate.

 

Go Google F2P Conversion and Age of Conan and see what I mean........

 

i was referring more to things I've seen such as "this is a gutted KOTOR" and 'BioWare lied to us and was using our money to build F2P for the last 6 months. We all do know what happens to people, like you, that assume things.

Edited August 2, 2012 by LordHartigan

[Yinata]

i was referring more to things I've seen such as "this is a gutted KOTOR" and 'BioWare lied to us and was using our money to build F2P for the last 6 months. We all do know what happens to people, like you, that assume things.

 

Yes we all know what happens to people like you that put blind faith in a company that has shown no ability to build or maintain a successful MMO, you will be left disappointed and sooner rather than later, you will be the hater that you hate so much as a fanboi.

 

Until then keep drinking the kool-aid fanboi it must be full of a mind control drug that blinds you from the truth.....

 

BTW Google is your friend go research how great every other F2P transition EA has done and you won't have any faith left........

[mangarrage]

i was referring more to things I've seen such as "this is a gutted KOTOR" and 'BioWare lied to us and was using our money to build F2P for the last 6 months. We all do know what happens to people, like you, that assume things.

 

Although I doubt they have been using our money to make it ftp in that last 6 months it has without question been using our money in the last couple months to develop ftp and will continue to until it is released, and will continue to use sub money to create more cartel shop items and daily specials etc

 

All the while your sub gets additional raids which will more then likely be 2 a year which will be completed in the 1st week its out