As I appreciate your zeal, its too late People who consider themselves real pvper or people who play games solely to pvp, no longer play this game and they will never play it again. It is almost impossible to understand as a pvper how a major faction of any game gets pretty much ignored in creation and then gets taken away the only chance at any real pvp. In addition never a peep after ilum goes down does anyone mention any solution again This game is barren of real pvpers, so fixing is really a waste of time, but they already knew that

I think you miss the point it isnt $75 vs 1000s of accounts It is potentially millions of ftp players all paying $75 vs loss of 1000s of accounts Most likely the number of people playing in the ftp model will be larger (alot larger) then the sub base. If they can make items that all those people will gladly pay for, they will not hesitate for a second So now 75 million vs 1000s of subs what would you take?

Well alot of the game updates per patch notes etc are not content patches in fact if you look through alot of notes you wont see alot of them. You have to understand we have no reason at all to trust bw at this time, none. The origin of alot of negatiivity (myself included) stems from their lies. They stated previously they would be adding content to the game every month (3+months now we are still waiting for 1). And even at one point they diagramed what the patches were. I forget all of them, but one of them was the rise of the sith masters and a raid against them as well as other hutt based content, none of which we saw. Now we can easily assume there is content they have done right now which they are waiting to release that they are queueing up so in the beginning they can stand by their new word which is new content every six weeks, but again we have no reason to believe it at all If they can release quality content every six weeks, they would never have had to resort to ftp because everyone would still be subbed. One of the major reason for the drop of subs was lack of content.

So what you are basically saying is that every single member in the community should be all sunshine and rainbows and if they aren't they should be censored from the forums? Honestly if you think the 2 things you listed have any determination on the success or failure of this game I don't even know what to tell you. The success (well attempted recovery) of this game is solely determined by how much fluff they can sell on their cash shop. The game success used to be determined by content and quality of play and they failed at that attempt at success, now the bar gets completely lowered down to creating items that people will constantly buy

So people are getting excited for a companion that will basically talk to you four or five times then never say anything else much like the other companions? Everyone knows hes a great character and the fact that he's hilarious but I think he's going to be another great disappointment in the long line

It is without question the biggest flop of all time in MMOs without question. If you actually look at the number of players it started with and what they have now and the fact that they are going ftp within 8months of starting the game. Sure there have been bigger failures, like Vanguard, Failgate London, Failhammer Online, but none that has seen this many subs leave in such a short period of time. They will hold that record for quite a long time too. It is very few games where we will talk about down the line, about how big of a failure it was. And all the fanboys have to say is nonsense like it is the 2nd most played mmo ever and it has netted 130m profit, do you even think before you post lol. How ridiculous

Actually there is a big difference between continually paying and still being subbed I have like10 days left or whatever it is because I was an idiot to do a 6 mo sub So no I am not continually paying I paid once. My server died I stopped playing. Transfers came I played for about another week and haven't been online since Because the server mergers didn't change the game, it just increased the number of people I see, and ftp will do the same I am really sorry to inform all you guys but this game is done. It is always nice to be positive and confident. Hell I was a fanboi for month pre release and through beta and even 4 months in but reality is reality

I think you people are going to be in for a huge disappointment when you realize that people will not be coming back to this game. Do you honestly think a person who's sub expires is going to pony up 15 dollars for a world event? The sub pop in this game is going to continue to fall.

Problem isnt whether or not it will open the game up to more players. That is obviously true, the problem is it doesn't make the game better. A bad game with 1 million people or 2 million people is still a bad game

Actually the reason is that they are pouring everyone's sub money into catering to ftp players As I certainly agree that the majority lacks reasoning. There are some very clear and precise posts that illustrate real examples and real results and real breakdowns of mechanics, but fact is they don't care about doing anything for subscribers. And that is why subscribers are leaving. Now they have to create all these CS speeders and pets for purchase It honestly doesnt matter what form information comes in really. The reality of it really lies in the fact that when a large number of unique posters all post pretty much the same thing, that thing should be looked at, regardless if the post is correct or not, and they are doing nothing

This is really the essence of gw2. The level of skill, situational awareness, and familiarity with what other builds a class can throw at you and alot of abilities are not channelled either. The fact that I know how to beat a maurader in SWtoR because they have a pretty set rotation and I can basically counter it blindfolded now. There is none of that in gw2, you have to be prepared for anything a class can possibly give you at anytime. Even remembering what a certain thief does (he could pop out after that wz and respec) then it is brand new again. You not only have to worry abot your hp, what class you're fighting, what abilities they are using but also conditions. You don't pay attention to conditions youre gonna get killed a ton Plus with probably 2 classes as a small exception you have to move constantly, everything is pretty much done on the fly, tons of ground aoe to worry about etc It is just so much more involved It will take a lot longer to be good at a class and it will take a hell of alot longer to be great in a wz

You know this is the kind of self righteous post that just gives light onto what blind people want other people to believe If I had the time, which I do not care to at all, I could make a post with links and charts and quotes from devs which we all believed, stuff that was coming, stuff that was advertised that wasnt even close to the reality of the game, etc etc Fact is the wise person knows what this is and knows how this game is going to be different, and knows how down the line how much worse this cancer they call cartel shop will do to the game Please get out of the habit of making the popular quote, if you have a sub nothing changes, because that is the most untrue statement you can make But if you havent woken up in the first 7 months chances are you won't wake up now

I cannot agree with you more every thing you said is precisely what the game needed. There were posts in the last 6 months about items that you mentioned. Instead they took the sub money to make a stupid useless legacy system and a ftp model. If you didnt get that stuff with the millions that they made already you wont see it ever. This is going to be more fluff then a game for awhile, then they will start integrating the ptw model

You're kidding right? 3000 based off of posts on a forum? You have to look at how many people are currently unsubscribed as of the middle of August befre the announcment then add in anyone who simply refuses to pay a sub in a ftp etc. The number is alot more then you think However the fact remain the answer to the question on sub total will never ever be answered again. They already skirted it in the meeting and stated well above 500k but under 1mil, which is perhaps the worst possible thing I have ever seen any company do a rnage of 500k lol. If they had close to a million there would be no reason at all not to say we retain 900k subs, but we know that it would be a huge deal if they announced they had 600k subs, so I'll let people make their own assumptions on that But now in these meeting you will not hear we have X number of subs, you will hear about # of accounts

I believe this to be 100% true. In the days of EQ there was no you tube and guild never posted on forums about how to beat a boss. We posted SS of a dead boss to show that we did it fact beat it but that is it. Hell it was probably 6 years in EQ until we used any kind of voice program (vent mumble etc) Fast forward to a game like Rift every mob every dungeon video available with commentary. Where to stand what class should be where. What builds are for the tanks etc etc Build's macro posted in a cut and paste format, so you didnt have to understand why the abilities were in a certain order, hell even what the abilities were even in the macros, all you had to do was cut paste click 12112 over and over So without question today tech allows a ton more people to accomplish things in game that they would never be able to do without it. This is the world of the 2nd gen MMO player, the fast food generation. It is one of the biggest factors of why mmos are increasingly become trivial Swtor otoh you didnt need any videos for their dungeons cause they were so ridiculously easy, but yea for the most part you are absolutely correct

There is absolutely no dispute to the fact that the ftp model will attract more players. That is a no brainer. He uses the term monthly active subscribers wrong. I am assuming he meant active monthly accounts I have no doubt that the ftp model will increase the monthly accounts by quite alot but it isnt going to increase active subs. ftp doesnt increase subs it increases players

You have to stop thinking in terms of total damage and start thinking in term of player to player damage. A maurader has incredible damage potential, which is fine and that should not change, but they cannot have all of their get out of jail free moves as well. That is the issue with the class they have it great on both accounts and that should not be PTs on the other hand talk about their lack of defenses (which I agree with) but really in looking at wzs matches (I'm a sniper btw) the amount of deaths in comparison to other classes is not scewed at all, which would either state that their defenses are fine or that they have the capacity to kill anything they are attacking alot faster then that class can kill them, and we know the former is incorrect. Forget WZ completely as so many focus on what X class does in a wz look at over all damage potential and compare the classes that are considered pure dps classes and you find that sitting by themselves is the pt then I would imagine maurader and sniper would be close then everything else under them. The dps output of all archtypes classified as strictly dps should be extremely close to each other because that is their main job and right now it isnt, so you need to make adjustments to the PT to bring them in line with the others It is adjustments that is all it is, it isn't about nerfing anyone into the ground

[quote=Haystak;4918327 The main reason I have found is that the best teams have two maybe three spots reserved for a straight DPS class, and even then the types of classes they allow are reduced considerably . Of those DPS classes that are needed, your ability to stay alive, CC, and root are vastly more important that your ability to do actual damage as he who controls the movement of the enemy team while retaining mobility of there own team usually wins in RWZs. Not the team with the most damage. Most of us don’t have the guild members to fill out a team of people who know how, and are willing focus only on very specific objectives other than killing, or healing. Since the best damage specs don’t do enough damage to ensure victory. Guard, AoE heals, and a metric Crap ton of stuns Mezzes Snare Roots Blindings defensive cooldowns and taunts ensure that a coordinated team that constantly uses those abilities cannot be beaten by another team that focuses solely on DPS. I particularly love post such as this. Now this post, although refreshing, is counter to the vast majority of people who state that particular classes or better yet archtypes get used much more often in wzs then other classes. Now lets look at what you wrote or more importantly your list there. Keep in mind we have seen 2 people post on the classes most used in rwzs which both led to the same conclusion that pt, smash jug, maurader, and healing op far and away dominate over dps sorc, snipers, Mercs, assassins, etc Now your argument is that it isnt because of their damge potential it is about their ability to stay alive and cc (As a side bar here I completely agree that CC is w/o question a huge upside to anyone who plays in a rwz) OK now lets look at the classes most chosen vs the classes not chosen Do you honestly feel that a maurader, jug, and PT can do more CC then a sniper, sorc, and assassin? It isn't even close Do you think a PT who probably has one of the worst defenses can stay alive better then a sniper assassin or a hybrid sorc or even hell a hybrid dps op? So by your rational rwz should be dominated by assassins, sorcs, and snipers but they are dominated by quite the opposite So I do not understand how your cc arguement applies to what high ranked teams are putting in the field If a very high CC based team should win all the time then the dominant classes would be quite the opposite Now let me say again high CC is defintely extremely important in any objective based WZ, I am not arguing that fact at all. I agree 100% but the wz team structure by good teams and bad suggest something quite different

Well it was BW and sorcs. In fact they were pretty close to being mirrored. I played both and they were both disgustingly op. I would go into wzs with 4 people the tank who guarded me a wp and healer who basically healed the whole time and I just waded into groups of pretty much any size and killed everyone. It was really that bad The jury is still out on balance in GW2 we knew necros were crazy in beta2 and by beta 3 they were in line. Beta3 we had warriors and elementalists out of control, so I expect some adjustments again Gamebreaker had a good show on the game with quotes from the pvp lead etc I expect some things to be off, but they admitted they had one guy doing the classes between beta2 and 3 and he did a huge amount of adjustments. He said now he has a team that will constantly be working on it, so take that for what its worth

Unfortunatley you forgot step 5 where anyone who is still subbed start seeing ptw items or basic necessities on the cash shop but arent just given to them because they are a subscriber Then I guess you go back to step one again

gw2 will hold people for alot longer then d3 or tr will that I can guarantee. What people experienced in the beta is a fraction of the game. You mentioned the keg brawl. My guild spend a couple hours doing that at the end of beta3 and I will say that is the most fun I've had in awhile in a game. And that is just one side game in one town. Just an extra so to speak, whether people are into or not, so be it, but its the little things that hold alot of people as well. My guild decided we are going to do it at least 1/month now cause everyone had a blast. But whether it holds after 6mo or 12mo is another thing, but there is so much in that game. They ended beta with an event, that end event was something the developers said took 6 hours to create and it was fun as hell the fact that they can do something like that that quickly makes me look forward to other things like that as well Im not hyping it, I don't hype any game anymore I've been around too long but the more I find the more I am intrigued

Then according to this model if you can kill PTs and Maras without a problem, and you know you are an average player, but still know that PTs and mauraders need to get adjusted down. How does that work then In other words trying to place everyone in a box is just dopey and illogical Not everyone thinks they are an above average player A mentally deficient player knows there are some blantent thing in classes that need adjusting. Good players, average players and bad players all know this

It will not lead top more subs It will lead to more people playing the game, and may very well lead to the company making more money More subs I would doubt. ftp may very well be the wave of the future, if it is the future is looking pretty grim. Not that the last 5 or 6 years wasn't grim anyway

Yea that was the wow generation too lol Has nothing to do with mad skills or should I use your skillz instead. I do not recall ever watching a video of a boss kill in EQ ever. I do not remember ever anyone frapsing any raid Guilds figured it out for themselves Honestly I think the first raid video I ever watched was in Rift in all honesty. The guild I was in folded right after RoS came out and the new guild required to be familiar with the encounters, so I watched Warmaster, Plutonus etc You do know alot of people do not require the use of others to beat end game content, apparently you arent one of them

OK then please explain to me where the money came from to devlop the ftp model and develop the cash shop. Did they go out and get a loan? Did they hire more devs specifically for this purpose? Nope in fact they layed off people and are continuing to lay off people So please explain it to the sub paying community where are they getting the money