No Gear Check in the LFG tool?

[rhirne]

OK, understand this. BW can't set a standard because there is not one to set. Unless a particular encounter requires XYZ piece of equipment, how can BW say what is a "minimum" requirement?

 

Players over the course of YEARS have shown that they can come up with very creative ways of beating various levels of content. Developers have even come out right and said "We hadn't even THOUGHT of completing that content that way!" Even personally, I've been in groups in various MMO's and we have ALL said "OHH this ain't gonna work... We are sure to die. We don't even have a tank." Then all the sudden you come up with some crazy strategy that everyone in the group also says "OHH this is just stupid." You do the content and it's like "I CAN'T BELIEVE IT WORKED!!"

 

When you take the HUMAN element out of it, how can you determine if the group will succeed or fail? How are determining if PersonG can actually hold his own? If you wanna see some crazy groups, as much as people hate on it, look at FFXI. I don't know how many times I was in the craziest of groups that wasn't the "minimum" required and we still found a way to do the content. The Ninja class was NEVER meant to be a tank class (for those who didn't know). The developers admitted "Yeah, we never even THOUGHT of using Ninja that way. But somehow, the players found a way."

 

I'm not saying gear is not important. Going into a lvl 50 fight with lvl 1 gear on - yeah that's a problem. But completely ignoring the human element just isn't an option. What if BW says "You need XYZ gear at a 'minimum' to do this content" and then people start completing it regularly with "ABC" gear which is NOT the minimum. What then? They just proved you don't need BW "minimum" requirement to complete the content and their gear-check means absolutely nothing.

 

Not all people are the same, not all people are the same skill level, not all people see the same thing on-screen during a battle, and not all people think the same. Might an encounter be a bit tougher becasue you went RouteG instead of RouteB - yeah very possible. But that doesn't mean it can't be done.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

I really hope BW won´t cater to the elitist whiners, if someone with green gear comes to your group, help getting him better geared..!

YOU wanted a LFG tool, go with your guild or go with random people who queued up.

[RolyartNala]

I really hope BW won´t cater to the elitist whiners, if someone with green gear comes to your group, help getting him better geared..!

YOU wanted a LFG tool, go with your guild or go with random people who queued up.

I'm fine with helping someone, but there is a difference between helping and carrying. I don't want to carry anyone; every group member should be pulling his or her weight. A minimum gear check is required for a good LFG tool, because if the LFG tool keeps pairing players up with random bads who have no gear and no clue, then nobody is going to use the damned thing.

Edited June 8, 2012 by RolyartNala

[Galbatorrix]

I really hope BW won´t cater to the elitist whiners, if someone with green gear comes to your group, help getting him better geared..!

YOU wanted a LFG tool, go with your guild or go with random people who queued up.

 

Yeah, because the LFG tool completely failing due to constant kicks/drops/degrading/etc should end up working out just fine. The only way to make this tool succeed being same server is if you make each group have a chance at success. Go buy some level 50 greens for you and 7 of your favorite guild mates and then try SM EC. Come back to us and let us know how far you get.

 

Also, if I'm allowed to queue for heroics right away, why should I bother with regulars? I can just queue up for heroics and hope the other three people can carry me through so I can get free leet gear....

[wutru]

I'm fine with helping someone, but there is a difference between helping and carrying. I don't want to carry anyone; every group member should be pulling his or her weight. A minimum gear check is required for a good LFG tool, because if the LFG tool keeps pairing players up with random bads who have no gear and no clue, then nobody is going to use the damned thing.

Well said. I agree. There should be a check in place, especially when people are wearing pvp gear!

[RachelAnne]

I'm fine with helping someone, but there is a difference between helping and carrying. I don't want to carry anyone; every group member should be pulling his or her weight. A minimum gear check is required for a good LFG tool, because if the LFG tool keeps pairing players up with random bads who have no gear and no clue, then nobody is going to use the damned thing.

 

Too bad that gear does not show who has skill and who not. Usually those in epics suck horrible, but were carried by their guild.

 

Lets face it, a good player with a working guild wont use the LFG. At the LFG you will find those who are not in a guild or just bad players.

 

After all you were not born with epics, but demand that others are.

[amnie]

so, this has nothing to do with the gear check but I didn't want to make a new topic for this...

 

can you find single people with the group finder or only completely random? (aka I have 5 people for an ops, can I look for the last three missing...)

[Monoth]

To people wanting a gear check....

 

Simple answer is to join a guild and play with people you know, just because someone passes a gear check doesn't mean there any good.

 

Also even with the group finder I will still form my Pug OP groups using General Chat, that way I can see for myself what type of gear they have, they don't need to be all pimped out in Tionese gear to do Eternity Vault story mode, just like you don't need full Columi to do Hard Mode EV either...

 

The other issue I see with Group Finder will be needing specific classes to get pass certain bosses, for Example in KP you need a range tank and a melee tank for the Brother Bosses, you also need a Smuggler or Trooper healer to remove the debuff on the range tank (so you can't use two Sage/Sorc healers), if you don't have this odds are your going to get stuck on these type of bosses.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Monoth

[Karl-Just-Karl]

It doesn't make a lot of sense that players would be allowed to FLG on content that would be impossible for them to complete. There are gear checks built into at least two of the operations, why would it be a good idea to let the player get to that point and fail?

[Captain_Zone]

In about a year we are going to have the same individual saying, "I remember how great the old LFG Tool was... Didn't help you to find others to do any Flash Points, Operations, anything. It was wonderful but nobody ever used it."

 

 

Yeah, because getting yourself to full Rakata and Black Hole Gear as a Powertech Tank is having your hand held... I'm not the one whining about my future on getting kicked from operations for not having the appropriate gear unlike yourself. Just wanting to point that one out.

 

 

Because everyone runs around in crap gear with good gear in their bags wanting to do HM and Nightmare mode Operations... seriously?

If you have **** gear on and you want to do an Operation that requires a substantial lvl of gear to pass then the failing is on you. Go do some HM Flash Points, Story Mode EV and KP, then do some Hard Mode EV - KP / Story Mode EC, and then you won't have to whine about being kicked for not being geared enough.

I've ran into some Elitist crap already. "I don't want to teach anybody the Operation." "I just want people who already know how to do the Operation." and so on. This is an actual conversation I had with a Guild Leader. I don't have time for people like that either. /gquit.

I run Lost Island 4-5 times a week to teach others how to do it. I just ran Kaon today with a new 50 today so he could start getting gear.

With that being said, some operations require everyone to be at a certain level of readiness and when one person doesn't meet that requirement then it brings the whole group down. That isn't being elitist that is being honest.

 

 

And I disagree. I would like Bioware to make the minimum standard and not the players. This would get rid of most of the elitist opportunities and could even act as a guide. When you have players dictating the standards then you get variances from group to group because each person has their own ideas of what the minimum standard should be. Instead I would like "ONE" standard that everyone knows ahead of time so nobodies time is wasted including the player seeking a team to do the operation with.

 

 

Met one already. I don't have time for that either. If you don't have time to teach a new player an operation then I don't have time to help you out when one of your players don't show up.

 

Wow, bro. Check yourself before you ASSUME anything about me. Do I want to do Operations? Not particularly. Do I like doing PvP? On occasion. Am I good at it? Yes. Now, for the BIG question: Do I want someone from halfway across the galaxy blind inviting me to group? No. My one real pet peeve from my days in City of Heroes and the WoW beta is the Blind Invite. It's the main reason why I keep my Ignore Group Invites turned on. But even when people blind invite with the Ignore Group Invites turned on, it spams my chat channel until I once again have to take time out from playing to put that person on my Ignore List.

 

And before you accuse me of being anti-social, I prefer to play with my gf and/or our friends. When they're on, I turn my Group Ignore off to get grouped up. Unfortunately, when I change the setting on one toon, it changes the settings on all my toons for the Group Invite Ignore feature.

 

I am against the LFG tool. Can't stand it. It's WoWers that wanted it, and after playing WoW in beta and constantly putting up with the sheer stupidity on display there, I went back to EVE where intelligence is in much more plentiful supply. In spite of TOR's similarities to WoW, I am a Star Wars and BioWare fan. Also, the break from constant PvP in EVE is a relaxing change of pace.

[Galbatorrix]

Too bad that gear does not show who has skill and who not. Usually those in epics suck horrible, but were carried by their guild.

 

Lets face it, a good player with a working guild wont use the LFG. At the LFG you will find those who are not in a guild or just bad players.

 

After all you were not born with epics, but demand that others are.

 

 

It has nothing to do with demanding others have epics. Most just think that people should follow a progression. Quest greens/blues should be fine to get into level 50 normal FPs, for instance, buy if they queue for Lost island, they'll be useless. However, if they stick with the normals and then move to the first tier of heroics as the gear up from the normals, and then gear up in the heroics before moving on to LI, they'd be fine by the time they got there. End game should have a forced progression. Otherwise, no one will use a pug finder when most of the groups disband due to constant wiping.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Galbatorrix

[snwmnx]

Fact: Themepark MMOs have content that is gated by levels and by gear. This is *BY DESIGN*.

Fact: SW:ToR is a Themepark MMO.

Fact: The developers / designers / employees at EA/BW decide what levels and what gear should be the gating point for the content in their game.

Fact: This thread is asking that BW *ENFORCE* their already-pre-determined gates with their new tool.

 

Groundless supposition and grasping at straws:

"Rawr, the elites just want BW to call people bad because of their gear in order to justify their own misguided ideals!"

 

In short: If you don't like content that is gated based on your gear score (read: Item Level) then perhaps another game is for you. Hell, I'd *LOVE* it if ToR wasn't just another gear grind. However, that is just not the case. As such, by its very nature, content is gated by gear!

[Kitzinger]

Too bad that gear does not show who has skill and who not. Usually those in epics suck horrible, but were carried by their guild.

If you are stuck in greens and nobody has heard of you before then I doubt it's the one in epics that suck horrible. There is a natural Flash Point / Operation Progression to getting gear... Right now a lot of servers are down for the count but hopefully that will change.

I'm of the opinion that you learn through progression. I don't carry anyone but I will help them get gear by doing FP, Operations, etc.

[DizzD]

I really hope BW won´t cater to the elitist whiners, if someone with green gear comes to your group, help getting him better geared..!

YOU wanted a LFG tool, go with your guild or go with random people who queued up.

 

Finally a casual/baddie who actually admits the TRUE nature of their complaint against item level reqs:

 

They want to be carried!

[DizzD]

TBH no matter what logic you use, the casuals won't listen because they have no idea *** they're talking about in the first place.

 

Prediction:

1. BW ignores our advice and launches Group Finder without a gear check

2. Casuals rejoice and praise BW for being so delightfully egalitarian

3. Group Finder is a partial fail due to casuals and baddies constantly being kicked rather than carried

4. People abandon Group Finder except for pre-made daily bonus and lowbie crap

Edited June 9, 2012 by DizzD

[Kalfear]

If you are stuck in greens and nobody has heard of you before then I doubt it's the one in epics that suck horrible. There is a natural Flash Point / Operation Progression to getting gear... Right now a lot of servers are down for the count but hopefully that will change.

I'm of the opinion that you learn through progression. I don't carry anyone but I will help them get gear by doing FP, Operations, etc.

 

who are you?

 

Sorry had to be said!

[ZudetGambeous]

TBH no matter what logic you use, the casuals won't listen because they have no idea *** they're talking about in the first place.

 

Prediction:

1. BW ignores our advice and launches Group Finder without a gear check

2. Casuals rejoice and praise BW for being so delightfully egalitarian

3. Group Finder is a partial fail due to casuals and baddies constantly being kicked rather than carried

4. People abandon Group Finder except for pre-made daily bonus and lowbie crap

 

Unfortunately this is most likely what will happen. There seems to be a large contingent of people on these forums who just simply don't understand the basic concepts and design of the game.

 

It will progress something like this---> Bioware doesn't add gear check--->clueless people rejoice--->LFG tool launches on live---> Groups fail repeatedly---> Another wave of people cancel their subs since they STILL can't get a group even though this was the main feature of 1.3---> No good players left--->no one to carry the clueless---> Clueless come back to forums and complain the everything is clearly too hard--->Bioware nerfs the content--->more people leave--->Profit?

[RachelAnne]

It has nothing to do with demanding others have epics. Most just think that people should follow a progression. Quest greens/blues should be fine to get into level 50 normal FPs, for instance, buy if they queue for Lost island, they'll be useless. However, if they stick with the normals and then move to the first tier of heroics as the gear up from the normals, and then gear up in the heroics before moving on to LI, they'd be fine by the time they got there. End game should have a forced progression. Otherwise, no one will use a pug finder when most of the groups disband due to constant wiping.

 

Lets be honest, do you really think people queue for a raid if they just dinged 50? They will simply not, I have very seldom seen something like that and I play MMO´s for a decade.

 

Most people will just follow the normal way of the game, but will soon be tired of running the same difficulty all the time and beeing bombed by the elitist crowd with "get better gear" or losing gear to a ninja (what will happen a lot in LFG´s). So they try to get it and join a higher difficulty.

 

The issue is, that you cant progress like we did on release anymore. The crowd on your server will push you into harder dungeons, because if you dont have their gear you are not welcome in their groups. That problem we have every day at wow, people see themselfs and think everyone should and can have the same equipment. There is a thread at the pvp forum, which does show this very well too.

New players have it hard at todays MMO´s.

 

TBH no matter what logic you use, the casuals won't listen because they have no idea *** they're talking about in the first place.

 

Prediction:

1. BW ignores our advice and launches Group Finder without a gear check

2. Casuals rejoice and praise BW for being so delightfully egalitarian

3. Group Finder is a partial fail due to casuals and baddies constantly being kicked rather than carried

4. People abandon Group Finder except for pre-made daily bonus and lowbie crap

 

Ok lets get this straight, the LFG is for Casuals!

 

In every "we need LFG" thread those that wanted it claimed "we casuals have a life and cant search for groups, we need LFG´s". Now that the LFG was designed so that Casuals can play better, you elitist demand that Casuals dont use it?

 

Are you beeing serious?

 

Just go with your guild, the tool is not for your kind. But ya, I know at wow the elitist´s also never understood that

Edited June 9, 2012 by RachelAnne

[jgelling]

TBH no matter what logic you use, the casuals won't listen because they have no idea *** they're talking about in the first place.

 

Prediction:

1. BW ignores our advice and launches Group Finder without a gear check

2. Casuals rejoice and praise BW for being so delightfully egalitarian

3. Group Finder is a partial fail due to casuals and baddies constantly being kicked rather than carried

4. People abandon Group Finder except for pre-made daily bonus and lowbie crap

 

Prediction: The LFG tool is actually designed for more casual gamers. Casual gamers are guided by the new tutorial system and incentives into forming groups early and (slightly more) often. No one cares if hardcore guilds use the tool or the existing system or their own communication, because they're not the market for the tool. LFG is as successful as the server population allows.

Edited June 9, 2012 by jgelling

[Knockerz]

Perhaps later BW will add a gear check, but for now it's fine. When Blizzard introduced lfg it didn't have a gear check for a long time. If I recall it wasn't until wotlk that a gear checker was introduced.

[Knockerz]

Prediction: The LFG tool is actually designed for more casual gamers. Casual gamers are guided by the new tutorial system and incentives into forming groups early and (slightly more) often. No one cares if hardcore guilds use the tool or the existing system or their own communication, because they're not the market for the tool. LFG is as successful as the server population allows.

 

Generally hardcore players don't pug, except on their alts that they don't care.

[Kaisernick]

who on earth still has greens at lvl 50?

[AKfourtyseven]

Prediction: The LFG tool is actually designed for more casual gamers. Casual gamers are guided by the new tutorial system and incentives into forming groups early and (slightly more) often. No one cares if hardcore guilds use the tool or the existing system or their own communication, because they're not the market for the tool. LFG is as successful as the server population allows.

 

The biggest issue is see is the daily quest tied to putting the LFG on random. it gives black hole comms.

 

That ensures that your more serious players are going to be using it as an alternative to gearing up besides raiding, which clearly the devs intended (if you are seriously "casual" then top raid tier gear is not your immediate concern) and they may end up rubbing shoulders with players who simply dont meet the requirements to complete the task.

 

It could be interesting.

Edited June 9, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[Ignicity]

who on earth still has greens at lvl 50?

 

fresh 50s

[MorgothPl]

It is simple as this - as DPS can get around ib blues or greens, by hiding his low DPS due to lack of combat meters, healers and tanks won't.

 

For example, lets say, I'm freesh healer, just hit lev 50 (happened on my sorc)... don't have rakata gear, only what I looted / crafted - meaning some blues and oranges with lev 49 blue mods.

 

Then I queue for HM. Don't have enough alacrity, crit / surge high enough to outdo the boss damage. Group wipes. Few tries later, still a wipe. What happens? I get kicked, and rightfully so, while my name gets into "ignore list". After several tries like that, everyone on server will know that I'm bad healer, and I will be kicked at sight.

 

I'm a casual gamer, but I agree, that you are not allowed to do all the content just on your whim. You have to realise, that some Flashpoints / Ops were designed for players with proper equipment - which Bioware stated in one of Q&A - they explained gear progression - and if you don't have it, you will only ruin the game for others.

 

That's like driving license - you can drive cars, but when you don't have proper license, you can't drive truck or buss, or you will be banned from roads by police.