No Gear Check in the LFG tool?

[RachelAnne]

1. Run the easier hard modes

2. Do dailies and spend your commendations on good gear;

3. Buy it

 

The problem is people don't want to do the intervening steps because they believe that they are entitled to see all of the content when they hit 50 without having to gear up first.

 

Its not that simple.

 

Even if you run the first dungeon, people will measure you and exclude you from groups. Go play wow in its current state, if you dont wear BoA gear you are removed from most groups and we are talking about gear that is not necessary + highly nerfed lvl up dungeons.

 

A gear check does only work, if the kickvote is disabled. If kickvote and gearchecks are done, new players will run into walls, just like they do at wow these days.

 

Imagine you start a new char, want to gear up but everyone expects you to have perfect gear. Its no fun, its a pain...

 

Blizz has given players too many tools to harass others, at Tor the kickvote is still there - but to now also add a gearscore tool that excludes others would make it even worse. What if you friend is not fully geared? He cant play with you? That just feels wrong, 2 players that know each other always play better than 2 highly geared annonym players.

 

 

Also consider that you join a guild, that guild is about to raid and you must farm daily´s for 1 month to be where they are now. When you are where they are, you are still 1 month behind, as they did advance to the next Tier.

 

MMO´s like wow have the big mistake of making the game too difficult for new players or those that take breaks. Not talking about the skill required, as we all know wow does not require much. its the accesebility that wow has a problem with, players exclude you too often and this is a serious problem in MMO´s lately.

 

Even if you run the first raid tier, people expect that you have the gear allready or even the one of the next tier.

Edited June 7, 2012 by RachelAnne

[Ratajack]

Gear check does not stop you from getting gear, it only stop you from skipping step.

If you ding 50 on correlia with orange gear having the correlia comm mod, those are 49 blues i believe, the system definitely should prevent or at very least warn you that any hard mode flashpoint, and especially lost island, denova.... are still out of reach.

 

Maybe you should go through the normal progression path Daily + normal FP -> Tier 1 raid and FP -> tier 2 raid and FP (lost island, denova)

 

There is no shortcut, but anyone can progress their toon, their is no blocking as well.

 

 

 

Please define "elitist thread"

 

 

And what happens if BW puts in a "gear check" but decides that T1 HM's only require 49 blues? That player who just dinged 50 on corellia with orange gear and corellia comm mods will be able to queue. Are you going to try to remove him from group for being "undergeared" when the devs set the required gear level that allowed him to queue?

 

I agree that some instances do have higher gear requirements than others. I do not, however, believe that those requirements are as high as some players think they are. Too many players want an easy "speed run".

[Seregul]

Gear check does not stop you from getting gear, it only stop you from skipping step.

If you ding 50 on correlia with orange gear having the correlia comm mod, those are 49 blues i believe, the system definitely should prevent or at very least warn you that any hard mode flashpoint, and especially lost island, denova.... are still out of reach.

 

Maybe you should go through the normal progression path Daily + normal FP -> Tier 1 raid and FP -> tier 2 raid and FP (lost island, denova)

 

There is no shortcut, but anyone can progress their toon, their is no blocking as well.

 

 

 

 

Please define "elitist thread"

 

elitism: something I don't like or don't understand.

[Skidrowbro]

I agree that some instances do have higher gear requirements than others. I do not, however, believe that those requirements are as high as some players think they are. Too many players want an easy "speed run".

 

This exactly. I welcome the gear check that the devs will put in but we all know for a fact that the players will enforce their own gear check just to exclude others because they just want fast runs.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Skidrowbro

[Vankris]

i don't understand

 

what is the presence of gearcheck has to do with player kicking you or not from the team. You believe that if there is no gear check, thus you will be immune to any form of kick?

 

and you are wrong, wow has never been easier to get gear. You can jump into the latest raid tier, even heroic, hours after ding 85, if you know to work the system, wow casuality is so bad, you're litterally drwoning in epics, community is filled with entitlement kid, afker, ninja loot, it's not a nice place to have fun.

[Vankris]

And what happens if BW puts in a "gear check" but decides that T1 HM's only require 49 blues? That player who just dinged 50 on corellia with orange gear and corellia comm mods will be able to queue. Are you going to try to remove him from group for being "undergeared" when the devs set the required gear level that allowed him to queue?

 

I agree that some instances do have higher gear requirements than others. I do not, however, believe that those requirements are as high as some players think they are. Too many players want an easy "speed run".

 

dude that is exactly what i'm saying. we are in agreement but somehow we argue, ^^

 

what i try to say is that gearcheck would stop people from skipping step. If you are in correlia gear, why would you jump into T1 HM rather than spending some time on ilum and belsavis first, getting your mod and daily com.

 

Gear check would pace the progression of a character for their maximum enjoyment. Of course, their is still the possibility to skip step, being powergeared by friend/guild, just not using the LFG tool.

[AshlaBoga]

For those of you who accuse those of us asking for a gear check to be "elitist." I'm not asking for someone in a Story EV LFG to have 4/5 Columi - just that they not have entirely GREEN 50. I once ended up having to kick someone in a Story KP pug because they had a substantial amount of Green 49 and Blue 45. Prototype level 45 gear means that you have to be VERY skilled to not hold an Op group back, even in Story mode. Yes, I'm sure you all have stories about how YOU did it, but aren't THOSE "elitist" stories?

[Acherom]

I would normally say its completely un-neccessary, until I got into a HM-BT run recently.

 

The first clue that there was something wrong with the group was when we wiped on the bonus boss twice due to enrage.

Group composition was:

Powertech, (Average rating on gear: 140)

Operative, (Average rating on gear: 128)

Sniper, (Average rating on gear: 108 (Weapon: 90))

Merc. (Average rating on gear: 126 (Weapons: 140))

 

Our problem was lacking DPS; took four attempts to kill the last boss (again due to enrage), but we did it. The worst part about the run? When I suggested we hit the dailies on Belsavis so the sniper could rip a 124 cunning barrel out of the companion modable reward (The blowing up generators one) he got _very_ offended and spent the rest of the run spewing profanities along with statements like, "Well I'm @#%(ing sorry I'm not up to your god-#*@&$( elitest standards! Some of us have jobs and lives outside of the game!"

[Seraphynn]

TL;DR

 

I did not read the entire thread as it was giving me a headache on the first page.

 

I have played this game since beta. I only have one character at 50.. This is the exact reason I don't go and do dalies and FP's or Ops.. This snobbish attitude about gear. I have never pvp'ed and just stuck to the normal content.

 

I want to do Ops and FPs but I am made to feel like an idiot because I do not know MMO's inside and out and am ignorant to what gear is needed for what, this is content I have barely touched... When I started playing I did not know what DPS, TANK etc even mean't.. I guess I will never get to do the op's because I don't know what to do, what I need or how to get it... I will be stuck on normal content forever..Because when I do ask I am made to feel like an idiot... and trust me.. that is not a good feeling..

 

So get down off your high horse and instead of demanding a gear check in LFG tool, help the ones who don't have the gear and EDUCATE them to what they do need. There are a lot of capable players out there like myself who what to do this content but don't know where the hell to start and it just takes a couple of helpful people from the community to get a leg up and help.

[Vankris]

elitism: something I don't like or don't understand.

 

you don't understand it hence you are affraid.

This thread is not about elitism, as you may think, this thread is about LFG tools having a system to match players with content that their actual gear are made for.

 

this is to avoid frustration and anger from player base, from both side.

[RachelAnne]

dude that is exactly what i'm saying. we are in agreement but somehow we argue, ^^

 

what i try to say is that gearcheck would stop people from skipping step. If you are in correlia gear, why would you jump into T1 HM rather than spending some time on ilum and belsavis first, getting your mod and daily com.

 

Gear check would pace the progression of a character for their maximum enjoyment. Of course, their is still the possibility to skip step, being powergeared by friend/guild, just not using the LFG tool.

 

Because the community does not work like this. Is this really so hard to understand? If you start at the beginning, people will tell you that you suck because you have that gear and not the gear after.

 

You join your first HM, did follow the steps like everyone did on release but still you are removed from that group because you only have daily gear.

 

If you add a gear check people will farm their *** off for nothing, because in the end the community or shall I say the group will still decide if you are in or out. At wow this ment even if you were at 329 a kick was most likely.

 

 

By adding such a gear check you show players that if they finish that step, they are welcome in the content. The truth tho is, they are not more welcome than without that step - because there will always be players that see themselfs as the indicator, so if they have Tier 2 gear everyone must and if not *kick*.

 

I would welcome it, if BW adds a gearcheck so that old dungeons are still played regulary. But then they need to remove the kickvote, else its pointless as you will still not be able to finish stuff without high end gear, as players will demand it, just like they do at wow.

[Sparklehorse]

How do people not get this?

 

It's a very simple concept.

 

When you hit 50 you are NOT ready to run hard mode Denova.

 

Now do you want the group tool to allow you to que for this so you can be rejected and kicked when the group is finally formed?

 

or

 

Would you rather the tool understand that your gear isn't sufficient and to leave this option greyed out until your gear is good enough?

 

 

So do you want a good tool that allows you to que for what your gear is capable of or do you want 3 random players to berate you and kick you from the group once you get there?

 

Quite simple...

[Seraphynn]

I would normally say its completely un-neccessary, until I got into a HM-BT run recently.

 

The first clue that there was something wrong with the group was when we wiped on the bonus boss twice due to enrage.

Group composition was:

Powertech, (Average rating on gear: 140)

Operative, (Average rating on gear: 128)

Sniper, (Average rating on gear: 108 (Weapon: 90))

Merc. (Average rating on gear: 126 (Weapons: 140))

 

Our problem was lacking DPS; took four attempts to kill the last boss (again due to enrage), but we did it. The worst part about the run? When I suggested we hit the dailies on Belsavis so the sniper could rip a 124 cunning barrel out of the companion modable reward (The blowing up generators one) he got _very_ offended and spent the rest of the run spewing profanities along with statements like, "Well I'm @#%(ing sorry I'm not up to your god-#*@&$( elitest standards! Some of us have jobs and lives outside of the game!"

 

Just like here.. what the hell is enrage?? I have no idea what that is.. Does the boss double attack? what is a rage meter. You might as well be talking double dutch to me.

[xandax]

How do people not get this?

 

It's a very simple concept.

 

When you hit 50 you are NOT ready to run hard mode Denova.

 

Now do you want the group tool to allow you to que for this so you can be rejected and kicked when the group is finally formed?

 

or

 

Would you rather the tool understand that your gear isn't sufficient and to leave this option greyed out until your gear is good enough?

 

 

So do you want a good tool that allows you to que for what your gear is capable of or do you want 3 random players to berate you and kick you from the group once you get there?

 

Quite simple...

 

It is very simple:

Let the people decide, not the tool.

[Skidrowbro]

It will only get worse if Bioware puts in an achievement system that gives speed run achievements for the FP's and Ops.

[Acherom]

Just like here.. what the hell is enrage?? I have no idea what that is.. Does the boss double attack? what is a rage meter. You might as well be talking double dutch to me.

 

Pardon if I didn't elaborate; I forget at times that others have not been in the genre as long as I have.

 

Enrage is a mechanic in bosses in hard-mode flash-points that works as follows:

When the boss is engaged, an invisible count down timer starts. When that timer hits zero: the boss gains an Enraged buff; that increases their damage output to the point where they can one shot even the best geared tanks.

 

Its essentially: a damage checking mechanic. The only way to beat it: is to kill the boss before it happens. As outlined in my last post: the reason we were cutting it so close each time was the Sniper's weapon was far, far behind (a level 40 barrel). I offered to help him acquire a significant upgrade to make future runs easier; but instead got blown up on.

[RachelAnne]

It will only get worse if Bioware puts in an achievement system that gives speed run achievements for the FP's and Ops.

 

Yes like wow has at Panda, I wish dev´s would stop all that measuring stuff in MMO`s. There was a time when everyone was welcome in a group, good old times today its all about elitism and rejecting others from content.

[Seraphynn]

Pardon if I didn't elaborate; I forget at times that others have not been in the genre as long as I have.

 

Enrage is a mechanic in bosses in hard-mode flash-points that works as follows:

When the boss is engaged, an invisible count down timer starts. When that timer hits zero: the boss gains an Enraged buff; that increases their damage output to the point where they can one shot even the best geared tanks.

 

Its essentially: a damage checking mechanic. The only way to beat it: is to kill the boss before it happens. As outlined in my last post: the reason we were cutting it so close each time was the Sniper's weapon was far, far behind (a level 40 barrel). I offered to help him acquire a significant upgrade to make future runs easier; but instead got blown up on.

Wish I could meet someone like you on my server.. Thank you for the answer.. Makes sense now

[Kanana]

Just like here.. what the hell is enrage?? I have no idea what that is.. Does the boss double attack? what is a rage meter. You might as well be talking double dutch to me.

 

Once a HM Boss enrages it starts doing a lot more damage, and usually kills the group in short order. It's basically a time limit - if you have not killed the Boss in X minutes you die.

[Ratajack]

dude that is exactly what i'm saying. we are in agreement but somehow we argue, ^^

 

what i try to say is that gearcheck would stop people from skipping step. If you are in correlia gear, why would you jump into T1 HM rather than spending some time on ilum and belsavis first, getting your mod and daily com.

 

Gear check would pace the progression of a character for their maximum enjoyment. Of course, their is still the possibility to skip step, being powergeared by friend/guild, just not using the LFG tool.

 

We are in agreement that some instances have higher gear requirements than others.

 

You misunderstand the point of my post, though. I'm asking you what would happen if the devs put a "gear check" system into place, but their minimum standards are lower than Player Z's. They designed the instances, they should know what the minimum gear requirements are. Would Player Z accept a player who meets the devs minimum standards of gear, even if that gear is below what Player Z considers necessary?

 

For instance, let's hypothetically say that the devs put a minimum gear of level 49 blue average to queue for T1 HM's. Player A has a mix of level 49 and level 50 blues and so meets the devs minimum gear requirements, and actually exceeds them. Player B feels that a minimum of full orange gear with all purple daily mods is required to run even T1 HM's. Should Player B be able to remove Player A from group just because Player A doesn't meet Player B's inflated gear standards, even though he exceeds the standards set by the devs. Does Player B know better than the devs, the ones who designed the instances?

[xandax]

Yes like wow has at Panda, I wish dev´s would stop all that measuring stuff in MMO`s. There was a time when everyone was welcome in a group, good old times today its all about elitism and rejecting others from content.

 

Well - I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't know when that was.

I started MMOs back when DAoC launched and well - back then there were different group requirements depending on what you were doing.

 

However that doesn't mean the tool need it build in. People have managed to figure stuff out for themselves for a long time.

[dardack]

So it will be the same issue PvP already deals with then? Idiots not bothering to acquire their gear....sigh.

 

I just gave a dude 100k to buy recruit gear. In all orange/greens from leveling. Don't think he knew about recruit gear TBH. Wish people would at least take the time to gear up.

 

Wether pvp/pve. PVP is easy, it costs credits, PVE also can cost credits on GTN or time with dailies/normal mode instances.

[Acherom]

Wish I could meet someone like you on my server.. Thank you for the answer.. Makes sense now

 

Glad I could brighten up someone's day, if only a little.

 

Also Jung'Ma is always looking to expand!

[Lopok]

It's better to get people to think for themselves than it is too feed eliteism.

 

THIS.

amen to this.

[Ratajack]

Because the community does not work like this. Is this really so hard to understand? If you start at the beginning, people will tell you that you suck because you have that gear and not the gear after.

 

You join your first HM, did follow the steps like everyone did on release but still you are removed from that group because you only have daily gear.

 

If you add a gear check people will farm their *** off for nothing, because in the end the community or shall I say the group will still decide if you are in or out. At wow this ment even if you were at 329 a kick was most likely.

 

 

By adding such a gear check you show players that if they finish that step, they are welcome in the content. The truth tho is, they are not more welcome than without that step - because there will always be players that see themselfs as the indicator, so if they have Tier 2 gear everyone must and if not *kick*.

 

I would welcome it, if BW adds a gearcheck so that old dungeons are still played regulary. But then they need to remove the kickvote, else its pointless as you will still not be able to finish stuff without high end gear, as players will demand it, just like they do at wow.

 

I agree that if BW does add a "gear check" to ensure that players meet the devs' minimum gear requirements, there should not be an option to vote kick. If Player B feels that Player A is undergeared, then Player B can leave group. Player A should not have to worry about being kicked if he meets or exceeds a standard set by the devs.