Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue

[AKfourtyseven]

I hope anyone who thinks its ok to come into PvP wearing full PvE gear as a fresh 50 is playing Imp side on ToFN..

 

The more people i can 3 shot with impunity the better! makes my WH grind easier

 

The gap between 0 expertise, less than full recruit and people hitting you who have 1000+ expertise is a complete joke its so big.

Edited May 23, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[_Zorth_]

The gap between Recruit and lvl 49 gear = Small

The gap between BM and Recruit = Large

 

That's wrong, You gain 896 expertise in total from recruit gear. From BM gear you gain a total of 1164 expertise. You gain 268 expertise stat in the jump from recruit to BM, That's about 4% worth of damage increase and damage reduction from enemy players. The biggest jump that happens is in primary stats, which adds another small percentage to damage/healing.

[funkiestj]

I will say I did not know at the time I could get it in Outlaw's Den. The PVP quest just has you go there. Having already been there pre 1.2 and got like a whopping 90 Mercenary Comms, I didn't bother this time around.

 

I farmed outlaw's den for a bit while queuing for WZ (level 48-50). I think I spent 3-4 hours moving from chest spawn to chest spawn. I got 1 pair of boot (and a few PvP matches where folks in full battlemaster gear crushed me -- not that I really mind).

 

So, as far as I'm concerned, farming Outlaw's Den for recruit gear = waste of time. Perhaps I was "doing it wrong".

[ShadowOfVey]

I think recruit gear should just be outright free, then there's zero excuses, zero "couldn't get the money together yet dont feel like dailies", zero of any of it. Just free recruit gear right there in your face, free on the vendor.

 

Any experienced player knows the cost of recruit gear is a joke, but that's not important. It still seems to be a problem for some people and there's no reason to not remove the problem, better for everyone (and some more people in your WZ queues, you want that don't you?)

[Klapton]

Its bad enough I have to wait 30 minutes to an hour just to get in a Warzone. But once I get in I get stuck with people who can't even be bothered to buy the Recruit set before they queue up for a WZ and then get steamrolled and are nothing but a liability to the team. Make it so you have to have at least the Recruit set before you can queue up for WZs.

 

Get rid of Expertise. Get rid of the "I'm magically better than you at PvP because I ground this longer than you" stat, and let people actually fight based on their skills and knowledge of the class.

 

*GASP*

[-Requiem-]

Get rid of Expertise. Get rid of the "I'm magically better than you at PvP because I ground this longer than you" stat, and let people actually fight based on their skills and knowledge of the class.

 

*GASP*

 

This. Because it's actually a good idea with simple yet awesome logic.

[_Zorth_]

Get rid of Expertise. Get rid of the "I'm magically better than you at PvP because I ground this longer than you" stat, and let people actually fight based on their skills and knowledge of the class.

 

*GASP*

This. Because it's actually a good idea with simple yet awesome logic.

 

Would still be gear based because I can go farm Denova HM for 1 month, Getting full campaign and having best stats in the game and go wipe the floor with everyone in a WZ. So I would've done zero PvPing yet I'd still be the best at PvP.

 

The reason expertise exists is so that you can't farm PvE gear and be good at PvP, You have to play PvP in order to get better at PvP. It's still not that much grinding because if you have full recruit you'll only have 286 less expertise than a full BM team, So all you need is better team work.

[Kemra]

As a brand new lvl 50 I'm totally in support of recruit gear being a minimum requirement to enter 50 pvp. It really dosen't cost much, I hit 50 with all my skills paid for, maxed out crafting, and 350k credits which I promptly spent on a full recruit set before even trying to que. Maybe I missed out on a few things like having all my inventory slots open, or owning a 110% speeder, but I prioritised, I wanted to pvp without letting down the team so I bought recruit gear.

 

And I have to say it was so worth it to, went into my first wz's expecting to get rolled like a blind pedestrian on a freeway and instead got a couple of MVP's. Played around 20-30 matches past 2 days (and started on getting some shiny purple gear) and the only time I'v been called a noob or had any negative feedback was in 1 match I didn't grab the huttball because I thought the better geared player beside me was gonna grab it... /shrug

[_Zorth_]

As a brand new lvl 50 I'm totally in support of recruit gear being a minimum requirement to enter 50 pvp. It really dosen't cost much, I hit 50 with all my skills paid for, maxed out crafting, and 350k credits which I promptly spent on a full recruit set before even trying to que. Maybe I missed out on a few things like having all my inventory slots open, or owning a 110% speeder, but I prioritised, I wanted to pvp without letting down the team so I bought recruit gear.

 

And I have to say it was so worth it to, went into my first wz's expecting to get rolled like a blind pedestrian on a freeway and instead got a couple of MVP's. Played around 20-30 matches past 2 days (and started on getting some shiny purple gear) and the only time I'v been called a noob or had any negative feedback was in 1 match I didn't grab the huttball because I thought the better geared player beside me was gonna grab it... /shrug

 

This is a team player!

[Criosdh]

It's also disrespectful to think that people who don't buy the recruit gear are actually trying to hurt their teammates... I'm not going to lie, when I hit 50 I had barely 80k left after buying my skills for my rotation... Recruit gear is pretty expensive for a freshly hit 50. And keep in mind even if you waited 30 minutes to an hour to days, that person has waited JUST AS LONG AS YOU, and not only that, you were in the exact same boat as he or she was.

 

This. Blame game design and BioWare. Not players with lives who aren't willing to farm hundreds of thousands of credits before they allow themselves to continue playing warzones.

 

The simple fact that higher tier PvsP gear has level restrictions to purchase is stupid, why shouldn't these people be allowed to PvsP their way up to lvl 50 and buy the better gear along the way?

 

I remember when I first hit 50 I had myself and 2 of my companions completely decked out in the lvl 40 PvsP gear (modified) simply because I had nothing else to do with my PvsP commendations. When I dinged 50 I had the above mentioned gear, 1000k of both commendations and a purple gear bag in my storage. That was as prepared for level 50 as I could get. Why they wouldn't have let me spend all those wasted commendations on gear leading up to 50 so I could have it at 50 I have no idea.

 

It's just a plain ridiculous system.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Criosdh

[-Requiem-]

I remember when I first hit 50 I had myself and 2 of my companions completely decked out in the lvl 40 PvsP gear (modified) simply because I had nothing else to do with my PvsP commendations. When I dinged 50 I had the above mentioned gear, 1000k of both commendations and a purple gear bag in my storage. That was as prepared for level 50 as I could get. Why they wouldn't have let me spend all those wasted commendations on gear leading up to 50 so I could have it at 50 I have no idea.

 

It's just a plain ridiculous system.

 

This is also true. I too found out the hard way you can't circumvent the stupid lower tiers of gear and just straight buy BM gear for when you hit 50. It's dumb. We earn the comms, they're ours, who cares what we spend them on? We should be able to buy BM gear or whatever else can be bought with comms as we gradually become able to afford it. Leave the level restrictions and def leave the valor restrictions, Axe the "cannot buy until 50."

 

I suppose the argument to this will be something similar to the expertise argument, where you have to play PvP to get better at PvP, translating for purposes of this specific idea into "if everybody could just buy the top PvP gear and put it on as soon as they hit 50, there'd be no way to tell who was more experienced and who was less experienced at PvP.

 

But wait...doing away with "buyer's current level" restrictions would...make PvP more based on who had more skill, AND close the gap a bit more between PvP'ers, taking away some of these people elitist attitudes. OMG!! BioWare, please don't read this thread!! This solution makes too much sense!!

[FlyinSpaghetti]

Fear the gear..

[lavatious]

Its bad enough I have to wait 30 minutes to an hour just to get in a Warzone. But once I get in I get stuck with people who can't even be bothered to buy the Recruit set before they queue up for a WZ and then get steamrolled and are nothing but a liability to the team. Make it so you have to have at least the Recruit set before you can queue up for WZs.

 

so i spent arse end of 200k on recruit gear i still lasted 4 secs because everyone has war hero ****.............why i spend 200k on stuff that LOST me 2460 hps and a whack of surge and crit why cause i still die fast with or without gear? your request makes no sense were here for the end gear win lose we all get badges.

 

and now you just need to sneeze the right way and you get a badge good times, not so good times that i spent 200k on **** that dont help...........

 

n before people start qqin 200k is nothin qq i got 54 million in me bank n by christ i still blow up about spendin 200k on stuff i dont need. it is a lot for kitch.

Edited May 24, 2012 by lavatious

[_Zorth_]

so i spent arse end of 200k on recruit gear i still lasted 4 secs because everyone has war hero ****.............why i spend 200k on stuff that LOST me 2460 hps and a whack of surge and crit why cause i still die fast with or without gear? your request makes no sense were here for the end gear win lose we all get badges.

 

and now you just need to sneeze the right way and you get a badge good times, not so good times that i spent 200k on **** that dont help...........

 

n before people start qqin 200k is nothin qq i got 54 million in me bank n by christ i still blow up about spendin 200k on stuff i dont need. it is a lot for kitch.

 

You clearly have no clue what Expertise does..

[Kemra]

so i spent arse end of 200k on recruit gear i still lasted 4 secs because everyone has war hero ****.............why i spend 200k on stuff that LOST me 2460 hps and a whack of surge and crit why cause i still die fast with or without gear? your request makes no sense were here for the end gear win lose we all get badges.

 

and now you just need to sneeze the right way and you get a badge good times, not so good times that i spent 200k on **** that dont help...........

 

n before people start qqin 200k is nothin qq i got 54 million in me bank n by christ i still blow up about spendin 200k on stuff i dont need. it is a lot for kitch.

 

Full recruit gear is over 300k worth, so you didn't have the full set, as for the 2460 hit.. I get the 2.5k damage medal (in a single hit) every wz, even when I was using the recruit MH weapon. Its not that big a hit actually if you have the 13k or so health from your recruit stuff. Five hits to kill you (assuming every hit is the same strength which is rare) is plenty of time to pop some class damage reductions, health stims or deal back some damage of your own.

 

Believe it or not someone in war hero isn't invulnerable, 1 on 1 I can hold my own even against someone in better gear if I have cd's to pop. If your getting owned so hard then maybe a change in tactics? Like back up more experienced and better geared players, or go defence on objectives either solo or with someone else, I usually do the last and find the opposing team will only send 1 or 2 players out to test out that target, and they're easy to hold off long enough for you to type 'west inc', 'left door' or w/e and get some backup.

 

Just don't give in so easily, I was so happy tonight when I went defence (solo) on my usual west emplacement and at the end of the match one of my servers more dedicated pvp'ers told me I had done a good job. He even came to help everytime I called incs and just stood back and healed me, fun times I would have missed if I had looked at everyone else's gear and given up.

[SneakyErvin]

You have no basis to debate anymore. Yes my lvl 49 epic aug implants are just a viable recruit, aug-oranges with 50 epics are better than recruit on a shiz ton of levels. PvE~=PvP. So QFT.

 

Oh now all of a sudden its augmented gear. Which costs roughly 4-5 times as much as recruit gear per piece. And doesnt bring you any extra damage or survivability over recruit gear. You are still behind, because level 49 augmented gear doesnt even come up to the stats of tio gear, which still was inferior to recruit gear, besides a bit over 1k HP, which means squat.

 

The numbers are still not in favor of PvE gear and never have been (2 pieces pre 1.2 was the limit), not pre 1.2 and not now after. I will say it again, recruit gear outpreforms centurion gear, the gear that was the gear to get for competative PvP, nothing has changed with T1, T2 and T3 PvE sets, so recruit gear is still as good as centurion gear was pre 1.2, except it adds ALOT more expertise. The PvE sets are the same, so are just further behind for PvP than they used to. It doesnt help if you add a gew augments in your 49 gear, its still inferior.

[LarryRow]

Blame game design and BioWare. Not players with lives who aren't willing to farm hundreds of thousands of credits before they allow themselves to continue playing warzones.

 

Hundreds of Thousands!!! Tens of Tens of Dozens of Hundreds!!!!!

 

aka, one pass through all the fresh level 50 content on Belsavis, Ilum, and Corellia, with plenty of credits to spare.

[Klapton]

Since everyone is obviously meant to wear all the same stuff, why not just issue the stuff on character creation and be done with it? This cookie-cutter nonsense is the most disappointing aspect of this entire game.

 

That and the fact that you can completely SUCK and still get the best gear in the game simply by showing up long enough.

[Jeffor]

Well the cross-section of players in theis thread makes it easy to see why people are leaving in droves. SWTOR has a lot of things that I like but the players are terrible and immature for the most part. Who will you guys denigrate and look down upon when you've driven the all the sane people away? Reading this thread you almost get the idea that people don't even play for fun. None of this sounds fun at all. :|

[-Requiem-]

Well the cross-section of players in theis thread makes it easy to see why people are leaving in droves. SWTOR has a lot of things that I like but the players are terrible and immature for the most part. Who will you guys denigrate and look down upon when you've driven the all the sane people away? Reading this thread you almost get the idea that people don't even play for fun. None of this sounds fun at all. :|

 

Exactly. All the elitist pieces of work want everybody to fall in line with what they've deemed the criteria for them to be "of any use at all" in PvP. Guess what, guys. Your horrible high-and-mighty attitudes could be contributing to the fact that some people don't give a crap that you think recruit gear should be mandatory to enter a level 50 WZ. This isn't basic training, and you aren't drill instructors. I'm betting the way you're trying to "commandeer" PvP is a big reason more people don't consider it fun.

 

People wanna play their own way because they've figured out how to have their own brand of fun in the game, which includes the way they PvP. Now before you start spewing gibberish or degrading them further with crap like "if they think dying in 3 seconds flat over and over is fun, or screwing over their team is fun, or being completely useless is fun...blah blah blah," know that you guys have painted this skewed painting of a definitive black-and-white end-all picture of what happens when you PvP at 50 without at least recruit gear, and you're basically the only ones who care about this picture, 'cuz most other people have a different perspective than yours, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

People like you are too competitive when it comes to the PvP aspect of MMO's, because of some misguided desire to prove your dominance whether it be through your perception of your own intellect or by pasting people all over the WZ. Again, it's a game and an MMO at that, which means you have to play with other people. If you don't wanna help contribute to making it fun for everybody involved, that's fine. But at least stop proactively doing the opposite and adding to the expanding gap between you "play this way or leave" types and the normal people just trying to have fun and PLAY A GAME.

 

This is getting ridiculous now. All you die-hards...or was it blowhards...meh, same thing in this case...need to stop trying to tell people how to play their game. People do what's fun for them, and Jeffor is right. It's this sort of crap that contributes to it not being as fun.

[NDiggy]

Exactly. All the elitist pieces of work want everybody to fall in line with what they've deemed the criteria for them to be "of any use at all" in PvP. Guess what, guys. Your horrible high-and-mighty attitudes could be contributing to the fact that some people don't give a crap that you think recruit gear should be mandatory to enter a level 50 WZ. This isn't basic training, and you aren't drill instructors. I'm betting the way you're trying to "commandeer" PvP is a big reason more people don't consider it fun.

 

People wanna play their own way because they've figured out how to have their own brand of fun in the game, which includes the way they PvP. Now before you start spewing gibberish or degrading them further with crap like "if they think dying in 3 seconds flat over and over is fun, or screwing over their team is fun, or being completely useless is fun...blah blah blah," know that you guys have painted this skewed painting of a definitive black-and-white end-all picture of what happens when you PvP at 50 without at least recruit gear, and you're basically the only ones who care about this picture, 'cuz most other people have a different perspective than yours, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

People like you are too competitive when it comes to the PvP aspect of MMO's, because of some misguided desire to prove your dominance whether it be through your perception of your own intellect or by pasting people all over the WZ. Again, it's a game and an MMO at that, which means you have to play with other people. If you don't wanna help contribute to making it fun for everybody involved, that's fine. But at least stop proactively doing the opposite and adding to the expanding gap between you "play this way or leave" types and the normal people just trying to have fun and PLAY A GAME.

 

This is getting ridiculous now. All you die-hards...or was it blowhards...meh, same thing in this case...need to stop trying to tell people how to play their game. People do what's fun for them, and Jeffor is right. It's this sort of crap that contributes to it not being as fun.

 

Wearing the Recruit set not only helps the people wearing it, but increases your team's chances of winning. Why would you refuse to wear something that is only going to make the experience better for everyone involved? This has nothing to do with elitism. It isn't elitism when someone wants to make the game fun for the majority of people. Is it really that much fun walking into a level 50 WZ fresh after dinging and getting destroyed?

 

If you want to argue the set is too expensive or takes too long to farm in Outlaw's Den where it drops for free, then fine, argue that. However, you can't say its an elitist argument when wearing the gear will only put you on better footing compared to other more veteran PvP'ers as opposed to not wearing it. Wearing the gear WILL HELP YOU OUT! This thread is all about making PvP as fun for you as it is for your teammates.

 

Believe it or not, other people play this game and they want to have fun as well. You are not a special snowflake and people don't admire your independence when you pop into a level 50 WZ in nothing but level 40 green and blue quest gear. People get upset with you because you aren't being considerate of their game time and the effort they put into buying the gear and gearing up. People get upset because PvP queues on many servers are over an hour long, and when you wait that long you damn sure want the best possible chance to win.

 

If you know about the Recruit set and refuse to buy and wear it, you're not just hurting yourself, your hurting your team and the other people on your faction. If you think "elitism" is driving people away from PvP and SWTOR, just imagine the people who quit in frustration because people can't be bothered to do something as simple as wear the PvP gear that is freely available to them because they "want to play the game their way".

[-Requiem-]

Dude...I bought the stupid recruit gear and ground up the comms to fully BM out. I'm not one of those people that "refuses" to do this. I'm just saying stop being so harsh. I mean this stupid thread has gone on and on for pages and pages now, back and forth, back and forth between like three or four different opposing sides each with their own arguments, some pretty decent, and some not worth the time it took to read them. They've read it, man. They get it! Make your arguments, do whatever you want, that's not the point. The point is ease off on people.

 

People with the knowledge to make others better PvP'ers should impart that knowledge. It not only helps them but it helps you too by getting more wins in WZs. But don't be jerks about it, and def stop trying to cram it down people's throats. Trying so forcibly to get someone to do something you want them to do only makes them even less inclined to do it. If people are gonna make the choice to do something, they wanna feel like they made the choice and not that they were pressured into it.

 

Just give people a break, man. Like I said, pages and pages. If they haven't seen your explained benefits of buying stupid recruit gear and decided to by now, then they've probably decided not to. Pages and pages...they get it.

 

At ease, gentlemen.

[Krenzik]

Add this to the list of entitlements the self-proclaimed leetpro players feel they should have...

 

1)The right to kick anyone from a warzone at any time for any reason they want.

2)No deserter lockout timer or debuff so they can leave any warzone five seconds after realizing it may be a challenge

3)No chance in the reward system for newbs to get better and grind for the all important gear (luckily BW reversed this after 1.2 came out)

4)Outlawing of PuG groups

and now this doozie.

 

You're shooting yourself in the foot if you don't save up and get the recruit gear as a fresh 50, but even if you don't your money's just as good as these so called professionals (and no one is being financially compensated to play this game regularly, they just aren't) who feel you are there for their benefit.

 

No wonder EA's laying off and most servers are dead.

[_Zorth_]

At ease, gentlemen.

 

You called him and everyone else supporting the recruit gear idea for elitists and now you want him to take it easy?

[NDiggy]

Dude...I bought the stupid recruit gear and ground up the comms to fully BM out. I'm not one of those people that "refuses" to do this. I'm just saying stop being so harsh. I mean this stupid thread has gone on and on for pages and pages now, back and forth, back and forth between like three or four different opposing sides each with their own arguments, some pretty decent, and some not worth the time it took to read them. They've read it, man. They get it! Make your arguments, do whatever you want, that's not the point. The point is ease off on people.

 

People with the knowledge to make others better PvP'ers should impart that knowledge. It not only helps them but it helps you too by getting more wins in WZs. But don't be jerks about it, and def stop trying to cram it down people's throats. Trying so forcibly to get someone to do something you want them to do only makes them even less inclined to do it. If people are gonna make the choice to do something, they wanna feel like they made the choice and not that they were pressured into it.

 

Just give people a break, man. Like I said, pages and pages. If they haven't seen your explained benefits of buying stupid recruit gear and decided to by now, then they've probably decided not to. Pages and pages...they get it.

 

At ease, gentlemen.

 

And yet I'm supposedly the "elitist" in this conversation.