Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue

[Angorak]

Bottom line is that until you elitest snobs start paying for everyone's subs stop telling them how they play the game.

Even in non-expertise gear eventually they will accumulate enough comms to upgrade gear. Suck it up and deal with the fact that not everyone can sit in front of a comp screen all day and some of them have taken quite awhile to get to 50 only to have ubersnobs like you trying to tell them how to enjoy the game. Zog off!!!!!

[rizBRAH]

If I want to play warzones in a way that hurts me and me team then I will... I play my subs just like everyone else.

 

[MWidowmaker]

not everyone has all day to do dailys for a start, some people have lives and jobs and irl things, not everyone can sit infront of a PC all day playing mmo's, this is what you elitist pigs need to consider.

im going to join your server and delibratly que in lvl 10 greens at lvl 50 just to annoy you for being a selfish pig.

 

better yet, get the slave girl outfit from nar shaddaa

[MWidowmaker]

Personally, if I don't see you in anything like Recruit gear or better in terms of pvp gear, and i see you in PVE gear, I'll berate you before the entire Warfront until you get some..

 

I've done it plenty of times..

 

Call people out enough they learn from their mistakes... and not using PVP gear is a huge mistake.

 

then get promptly ignored for being a *******

then fewer and fewer people que, then you are left holding your wiener in fleet wondering where the queues went

[_Zorth_]

Recruit gear can be obtained for free.. Just go to the Outlaw's den in Tatooine and get it from the boxes that spawn.

 

No need to hurt your team because you are too lazy or too cheap in order to buy some decent gear, They pay this game just as much as you do and deserve to have just as much as fun as you do.

[Philly_D]

Its bad enough I have to wait 30 minutes to an hour just to get in a Warzone. But once I get in I get stuck with people who can't even be bothered to buy the Recruit set before they queue up for a WZ and then get steamrolled and are nothing but a liability to the team. Make it so you have to have at least the Recruit set before you can queue up for WZs.

 

i thought you had to have warzone accommodations to get pvp gear.

[SWaotc]

Blame the system not the players, if ppl want to play naked its their choice.

 

This is what happens when corps make bad copies of other mmo's.

[-Requiem-]

To all you people that are talking about how selfish it is of someone to enter a WZ not having at least recruit gear: are you hearing yourselves?

 

I mean selfish? Really? That's the dumbest attempt at a justification for you wanting people to play the game your way I've read on the forums to date. I mean do you really think people consciously make a decision to screw over their team by not having your set standard of gear? Do you really think people consciously make a decision to contribute to their team losing? *Do you really think it's their intention to cause their team to do poorly?

 

Do you think these thoughts ever even cross players' minds? So you're saying there are players in the game whose goals are to screw *you* over in PvP? Are you kidding me?

 

Get off your high horses and stop being so high-and-mighty. Look how ridiculous your train of thought has gotten. Just get over yourselves.

 

* - I know some opposite factioned players have had "dummy toons" join opposing factioned teams as dead weight to ensure their side wins, but you and I know this isn't what we're talking about.

 

"Selfish..." rofl RIDICULOUS.

[Kabaal]

The last two classes i took to 50 i bought no more than half recruit gear and still kicked *** compared to everyone else on the team. I don't mean just numbers at the end rather than killing everyone who came in my path and directed the matches.

 

With knowledge of the classes the only time a new 50 should have anyone to fear is when they come across a marauder/sentinal with 19k+ hp.

[Gloga]

selfish - devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.

 

Everyone in pvp is selfish: those without recruit gear are being selfish by trying to progress to tier 2 without bothering to obtain tier 1 gear, which makes it more difficult for the team to function, slowing the progression of the other 7 people on their team because they are not just deadweight, they are a liability, they can't defend an objective, and they can't take one.

 

I am being selfish saying that they should have to buy recruit gear, because I don't care about their progression when it is slowing mine, and if they don't want to get the tier 1 pvp gear, I don't want to help them get tier 2.

[-Requiem-]

First of all, you're changing the concept. The variety of "selfish" I'm talking about is the one referred to earlier where people were painting this idiotic picture of people not buying recruit gear BECAUSE they wanted to inhibit the rest of their team's chances of winning WZ matches.

 

Second, I'm fully aware of everyone's own personal desire to gain comms, gear, weapons, and all sorts of other stuff. I'm also aware that while some do the WZ's for the PvP aspect and what it is in itself, some do it as a means to acquiring the aforementioned items. For them, it's a means to an end. I don't call that selfish. I call that grinding, and everybody does it in game in some form or another. One of those forms happens to be PvP. The difference though, is that with grinding for comms or better gear or whatever, the rewards are what consumes people's motives, not this ridiculous notion that they're only PvP'ing in hopes of screwing team mates out of winning. That's just dumb.

 

You're trying to cross two different concepts to back up a point that should've never been attempted to be made.

 

When you inspect everybody before the match starts to make sure their gear is up to your standards, if you find someone's loadout you're not happy with, well, the exit button is at the bottom right under the map. Or you could create a premade. Of you could help them get up to your silly standard by staying in the match and helping them get their money or comms. Or, and I'm just going out on a limb here, those people that think it's selfish not to come with at least recruit gear could worry about themselves and stop trying to impose their method of play onto others...unless of course they're willing to pay their subs for them each month. This is just a control issue.

 

EDIT: I must apologize. I realize after reading my post that I was very VERY horribly wrong about something. If you've changed where your map is via the UI editor, then your exit button might not be at the bottom at all. Please accept my humblest apologies. I'm very deeply sorry.

[Gloga]

First of all, you're changing the concept. The variety of "selfish" I'm talking about is the one referred to earlier where people were painting this idiotic picture of people not buying recruit gear BECAUSE they wanted to inhibit the rest of their team's chances of winning WZ matches.

 

Second, I'm fully aware of everyone's own personal desire to gain comms, gear, weapons, and all sorts of other stuff. I'm also aware that while some do the WZ's for the PvP aspect and what it is in itself, some do it as a means to acquiring the aforementioned items. For them, it's a means to an end. I don't call that selfish. I call that grinding, and everybody does it in game in some form or another. One of those forms happens to be PvP. The difference though, is that with grinding for comms or better gear or whatever, the rewards are what consumes people's motives, not this ridiculous notion that they're only PvP'ing in hopes of screwing team mates out of winning. That's just dumb.

 

You're trying to cross two different concepts to back up a point that should've never been attempted to be made.

 

When you inspect everybody before the match starts to make sure their gear is up to your standards, if you find someone's loadout you're not happy with, well, the exit button is at the bottom right under the map. Or you could create a premade. Of you could help them get up to your silly standard by staying in the match and helping them get their money or comms. Or, and I'm just going out on a limb here, those people that think it's selfish not to come with at least recruit gear could worry about themselves and stop trying to impose their method of play onto others...unless of course they're willing to pay their subs for them each month. This is just a control issue.

 

EDIT: I must apologize. I realize after reading my post that I was very VERY horribly wrong about something. If you've changed where your map is via the UI editor, then your exit button might not be at the bottom at all. Please accept my humblest apologies. I'm very deeply sorry.

 

I do premade, and If I had the option of having all 8 players on my team I wouldn't be nearly as upset about it as I am. I am forced to deal with people who lessen my chances of winning and slow my progression. They are just as guilty of "imposing their playstyle" as I am because they are forcing me to either leave the warzone, or go out of my way to pick up the slack. I HAVE to worry about what they are doing or I lose the match. PVP warzones aren't about individuals, it is about a team working together to achieve objective. Someone without recruit gear CAN'T contribute to the team. They can't do damage and they die faster then they can get out of the spawn door on the initial charge.

 

No one with a brain thinks they aren't buying recruit gear becuase they are actively trying to make their team lose. By not buying it however, they ARE inhibiting their team. They are aware that they are lowering their teams chance of victory, and they don't care. In other words: they are selfish, which is a point that should be made.

 

The "imposing my playstyle" and "imposing my standards" arguements are points that needs to stop being used. It isn't my method of play, or my standards. It's Bioware's. They are the ones who want pvp gear only for pvp, and pve gear only for pve you come into a warzone with level 30 blue mods in your gear you are going against their intended design.

 

On a side note: I haven't done the math and generally don't yell at people in Full rakatta gear instead of recruit gear. I don't know if the base damage from their gear is made up for by the expertise, I'm fairly sure they have more HP then the % of damage they reduce however. If they have run the numbers themselves and there isn't a difference or Rakatta is better, good on them. Those queueing up for warzones as a fresh 50 with mods they haven't updated since level 30 and expecting to get carried through matches so they can get WZ comms for battlemaster without carrying their own weight are the ones I have issues with and they should never be allowed into a warzone. Whether intentional or not, all they do is screw over other players who also pay a 15$ a month subscription.

[Fdzzaigl]

I know how annoying this is, but don't forget that new 50's usually don't have the money to buy skills+mount+recruit gear when they ding, or might be unwilling to spend money on either one of those.

 

I just dinged 50 last week on my gunslinger alt, because I'm rather experienced, I managed to make 1.2 Million Cr before dinging, but most people at that point had about 500k.

The day my alt dinged, I spend 1 million credits on her to buy all the recruit gear, mount and skills.

 

People who are doing their first character might not want to spend that much, and some who are leveling up alts prefer the pain of dying a lot for a couple of days above spending ~320k on recruit gear.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[flem]

Talk about exaggerations.

 

You don't make 300k on 1 days dailies.

Sure you do. 100k per planet, three planets. You're forgetting all the vendorable loot that drops.

 

There's no excuse. You don't get to go on op runs in sub-50 quest greens -- you consolidate your gear to starter endgame level before you dive in. PvP is the same -- worse because as ops leader I can't kick you.

Edited May 19, 2012 by flem

[-Requiem-]

PVP warzones aren't about individuals, it is about a team working together to achieve objective. Someone without recruit gear CAN'T contribute to the team. They can't do damage and they die faster then they can get out of the spawn door on the initial charge.

 

While I do agree with you about it being about the team and not the individual, I had to read the next part twice, because it's simply just utterly not true. When I started out in PvP, I wasn't doing nearly the damage that others with higher-level gear were, but we still won just as many as we lost, and I was very much a contributing factor. In fact, in my personal goal to better myself in PvP, I wrote down stats I saw on the scoreboard at the end of matches I did pretty decent in. For example in Voidstar once in pre PvP gear I had 201085 damage, 21 kills, 0 deaths, 14 medals. Is this amazing? No way. Is it pretty decent for not having any PvP gear? Absolutely.

 

They are aware that they are lowering their teams chance of victory, and they don't care. In other words: they are selfish, which is a point that should be made.

 

There's simply no way you can know this to be fact unless of course you're conducting personal interviews with every single person you've ever PvP'd with. You're generalizing, it's not helping your case.

 

The "imposing my playstyle" and "imposing my standards" arguements are points that needs to stop being used. It isn't my method of play, or my standards. It's Bioware's. They are the ones who want pvp gear only for pvp, and pve gear only for pve you come into a warzone with level 30 blue mods in your gear you are going against their intended design.

 

Umm, not so much, no. Seeing as how you can still be admitted into WZs without the loadout in question, it's not BioWare's standard at all. They do NOT in fact make it mandatory. They never even say or imply that you must purchase this gear or use that gear and whatnot. They've simply made it available. In fact, YOU are the one trying to make it mandatory. Like I said, you're trying to impose your play style on others, and that's a control issue.

 

Those queueing up for warzones as a fresh 50 with mods they haven't updated since level 30 and expecting to get carried through matches so they can get WZ comms for battlemaster without carrying their own weight are the ones I have issues with and they should never be allowed into a warzone. Whether intentional or not, all they do is screw over other players who also pay a 15$ a month subscription.

 

I won't say people don't do this, but I very much suspect their motives aren't as dastardly as you're implying. Again, I highly doubt the choice to actively screw over their team is one people ever even consider before queuing up for WZs. Or else what are you suggesting? Maybe if you get put on a crappy team where one or more of the members of that team aren't as geared out as you, maybe your sub should be less than 15$...

 

You know what, I'm gonna submit a ticket, because this insanity has got to stop ASAP. I refuse to pay $15/mo if I inspect my team mates and even a single one has less than recruit gear. This is an outrage.

 

Seriously though, all the die-hard PvP'ers tell all the complainers and QQ'ers that have issues with some aspect of other of PvP to "L2P" or "suck it up" or any of several other "get over it" type answers. That's what needs to happen here. People will play SWTOR how they will play SWTOR and some of that will inevitably involve PvP, and guess what? How they choose to play their accounts, their toons, their subs, it's not up to you.

 

So umm...maybe get over it? Like I said, you know where the exit button is.

[Tricky-Ha]

If Recruit Gear was Orange with removable mods, maybe more people would want to wear it. That's the main problem with nearly all of the gear in this game, not enough of it is Orange Custom gear.

[-Requiem-]

If Recruit Gear was Orange with removable mods, maybe more people would want to wear it. That's the main problem with nearly all of the gear in this game, not enough of it is Orange Custom gear.

 

And I can't speak for the aesthetic appeal of the other three classes, but as for JK of course, there's the fact that the recruit armor is so flippin' ugly. That hat? Come on...Ancient Greek meets futuristic robot Samurai...

 

Thank the Force for the "hide head slot" feature.

[JGames]

Blah, blah, blah. It's a game, they can do whatever they want, just the same as you. Besides, I bet you don't complain at all when they end up on the other team.

 

No fun to play against people you just steamroll; Close games are the best.

[Gloga]

While I do agree with you about it being about the team and not the individual, I had to read the next part twice, because it's simply just utterly not true. When I started out in PvP, I wasn't doing nearly the damage that others with higher-level gear were, but we still won just as many as we lost, and I was very much a contributing factor. In fact, in my personal goal to better myself in PvP, I wrote down stats I saw on the scoreboard at the end of matches I did pretty decent in. For example in Voidstar once in pre PvP gear I had 201085 damage, 21 kills, 0 deaths, 14 medals. Is this amazing? No way. Is it pretty decent for not having any PvP gear? Absolutely.

 

When you did this match was this pre or post 1.2? Or was it still slightly viable to use full PVE gear for pvp? And if it was post 1.2....let me guess...vanguard assault spec/BH what ever the shared tree is. Either that or you had a constant guard and pocket healer, and on top of that their team was terrible.

 

There's simply no way you can know this to be fact unless of course you're conducting personal interviews with every single person you've ever PvP'd with. You're generalizing, it's not helping your case.

 

There are three types of people who don't have PVP gear:

1) those who can't afford it, generally they have a few pieces and are making an effort to get more, (while they annoy me, I don't hate this group)

2) those in full rakata who might have a case that they have better survivability/damage in rakata then recruit. (I say might because I have not run the numbers and don't know for sure)

3)those who don't buy recruit gear hoping to skip straight to battlemaster on the backs of their team mates. If they don't realize that is what the effect of being under geared is they are just stupid. (There is nothing not selfish about type 3 people and they can all go **** themselves.).

 

You can probably claim there is still a fourth type which is people who don't know it exists, but the first warzone they get into they suddenly become either type 1 or type 3.

 

Umm, not so much, no. Seeing as how you can still be admitted into WZs without the loadout in question, it's not BioWare's standard at all. They do NOT in fact make it mandatory. They never even say or imply that you must purchase this gear or use that gear and whatnot. They've simply made it available. In fact, YOU are the one trying to make it mandatory. Like I said, you're trying to impose your play style on others, and that's a control issue.

 

They claim constantly that they want seperation between pvp and pve gear. They say they don't want pvp gear used for pve and vice versa. To be honest though, yes standard was the wrong word. The point of this post is to have Bioware make having pvp gear a standard to play in pvp battlegrounds post level 50, so that teams are not gimped. I also want them to give a set of recruit gear to players when they hit level 50. Anyone without pvp gear is gimping their team and it should not be allowed to continue

 

I won't say people don't do this, but I very much suspect their motives aren't as dastardly as you're implying. Again, I highly doubt the choice to actively screw over their team is one people ever even consider before queuing up for WZs. Or else what are you suggesting? Maybe if you get put on a crappy team where one or more of the members of that team aren't as geared out as you, maybe your sub should be less than 15$...

 

 

You know what, I'm gonna submit a ticket, because this insanity has got to stop ASAP. I refuse to pay $15/mo if I inspect my team mates and even a single one has less than recruit gear. This is an outrage.

 

Seriously though, all the die-hard PvP'ers tell all the complainers and QQ'ers that have issues with some aspect of other of PvP to "L2P" or "suck it up" or any of several other "get over it" type answers. That's what needs to happen here. People will play SWTOR how they will play SWTOR and some of that will inevitably involve PvP, and guess what? How they choose to play their accounts, their toons, their subs, it's not up to you.\

 

So umm...maybe get over it? Like I said, you know where the exit button is.

 

So basically what you are saying is that they should be able to screw me over by entering warzones without pvp gear, and I should just accept it or leave the warzone? No. Bioware shouldn't allow 1 person to screw over 7 of their own teammates in a warzone. That is an outrage.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Gloga

[cashogy]

i would much prefer a simple quiz when you hit 50. it should ask you simple questions about the objectives, your class, other classes, etc. if you do not pass with 75% correct answers or more, you are not allowed in pvp.

 

im just tired of players who either have no clue what is going on or do not care what is going on and end up costing my team the game.

[-Requiem-]

So basically what you are saying is that they should be able to screw me over by entering warzones without pvp gear, and I should just accept it or leave the warzone? No. Bioware shouldn't allow 1 person to screw over 7 of their own teammates in a warzone. That is an outrage.

 

Ugh, and on and on it goes...

 

First of all, I did it post 1.2. The toon I did it on was a sentinel under the Watchman tree. I didn't have any pocket healers 'cuz A) I didn't hang around (in range of) anyone specific at all, because B) I just kept running back and forth between the doors to both let my team plant bombs as the attackers and prevent the other team from doing so as defenders. I had no buffs above my health for protection from other team mates, and no bubbles on me either. I just kept moving and "picking off" those I could.

 

Now you can sit at your computer and try to explain down and cheapen how I got those stats all you want, but really when it comes down to it, it's simple. I just kept moving through the clutter of reps and imps using the confusion to my advantage and LoS'ing when necessary. Incidentally, I love that you can run behind the crate in the first room. So helpful...

 

Anyway look man, I'm sorry you're hurt that BioWare didn't consult you first before setting up PvP and how the armor works. Again, the game's not about you. Maybe apply for a job at BioWare next time?

 

And all this crap about "on the backs of their team mates" is just dumb. When people queue up for PvP, they know they have to earn their comms for better armor same as everybody else. If they wanted to ride coat tails, they'd just chill in the bay the whole time and never even jump down. Obviously this is just one example of many, but the point is, I'm guessing when people PvP, at some point they've looked at the price lists on the vendors and know it'll take a bit to get. The logic theoretically would be to get as many of the stupid comms ASAP, so they don't have to screw with the grind an instant longer than necessary. Again, I'm guessing that nowhere in this train of thought does "I'll just get 45 comms here, 50 there, whatever I can get just by doing jack and standing there the whole time. No, most likely they probably want the grind to be over ASAP. Plus, a lot of people are just too competitive to stand around the whole time. For them it's just too tempting to go try to snatch up a turret or snag a few kills. These people are sometimes awesome. ...'cept for when they're the only one guarding an objective and they leave.

 

And calling people stupid for not having the exact thought processes you do is just unwarranted. Before you call someone else stupid for the way they think, look at yourself first. Don't be so judgmental, dude. The game's not about you. It's about all of us. No one has any more say than anyone else. You can either accept that or complain about it some more, but if it means so much to you that you're this up in arms about it, then like I said before either get into a premade "fer all yer PvPin' needs" or get over it. The only person you have control over is yourself, so if you're not happy with the situation, adjust your frame of mind until you are, 'cuz in the end of the day that's all you can do.

 

And to Cashogy: I completely agree with your bit about being tired of being on teams with people that have no clue what to do and cost the match because of it. There are objectives, people! These are more important (in most cases) than how much damage you rack up or your kill count!!

 

And sorry for writing a novel for a reply. I hate reading huge blocks of text too. Sorry about that.

Edited May 20, 2012 by -Requiem-

[dcgregorya]

While I do agree with you about it being about the team and not the individual, I had to read the next part twice, because it's simply just utterly not true. When I started out in PvP, I wasn't doing nearly the damage that others with higher-level gear were, but we still won just as many as we lost, and I was very much a contributing factor. In fact, in my personal goal to better myself in PvP, I wrote down stats I saw on the scoreboard at the end of matches I did pretty decent in. For example in Voidstar once in pre PvP gear I had 201085 damage, 21 kills, 0 deaths, 14 medals. Is this amazing? No way. Is it pretty decent for not having any PvP gear? Absolutely.

 

 

It means you weren't a priority target and got carried by your teammates. Not to put you down but that's what it boils down to. I've BM'd 3 chars so far and time and time again the game proves that you can't even really start to compete until you're half or better BM. And when I say compete I don't mean the odd 200k here or there - my BM chars put out 300k+ every single warzone, with solo kills and lots of killing blows and heavily actually contribute to winning the game. Not tossing out AOE's that hit for 500 across 7 enemies.

[dcgregorya]

And all this crap about "on the backs of their team mates" is just dumb.

 

It's really not. All those guys at the top of the leaderboards, taking out healers, killing the enemy team so the bomb can get planted, etc. are always well geared. Full recruit gear teams do not win, ever. Your better geared teamates are winning the matches and you're just trying to contribute like a half-person. But if the game is won it's not because of your efforts - because the second you became a threat you'd get insta-gibbed by incoming enemy fire.

[Sabredance]

Two days ago i had a Sage in my group with 9.4k health and 0 expertise.

 

We just told him he earned an achievement.

[-Requiem-]

It means you weren't a priority target and got carried by your teammates. Not to put you down but that's what it boils down to. I've BM'd 3 chars so far and time and time again the game proves that you can't even really start to compete until you're half or better BM. And when I say compete I don't mean the odd 200k here or there - my BM chars put out 300k+ every single warzone, with solo kills and lots of killing blows and heavily actually contribute to winning the game. Not tossing out AOE's that hit for 500 across 7 enemies.

 

I know. I get that I wasn't a priority target in that match. I don't necessarily think it means I was carried though. On that particular team there were only two with higher stats than me. I will concede however to the notion that it could've been just a "lucky" match for me. I don't think it would explain why most of the others on the team were lower on the board though. And at the time, I was only just beginning my PvP "career," so having the third highest stats COULD mean the imps sucked worse, I'll give ya that.

 

Then again, I don't know how they were geared, how long they'd been PvP'ing, whether they were pre-made or a pug. What I do know is that PvP in this game's not black and white. There's a huge grey area that the notion of "have at least a recruit set or don't PvP" tries to eliminate. That of course will never happen. I was just saying deal with it or don't.

 

And congratulations man, you're a much better PvP'er than I am. That's not sarcastic, I mean it. That's dedication, and I admire that...unless of course you're one of those holier-than-thou elitists. Anyway, now that I'm fully BM'ed out, I know exactly how good I am, and I know exactly how good I am not. I'm also very much aware of my limits, and I know I'm not NEARLY as amazing as some of the dudes I see. Then again it's not a huge issue for me. I PvP when I need the comms to buy PvP stuff.