Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue

[RefugeASSASSIN]

Wow, I didn't know all the Call of Duty nerds were playing Star Wars: TOR.

Guys, take your meds and relax. It's just a game. We're not playing for the world series or trying to bring about world peace by playing war zones. Play and have fun. If someone is rolling in PVE gear, so be it. You know how many times I've seen a PVP player showing up in OPS and HMs in PVP gear? You don't hear me complaining. We need the player base, even if it IS bad. I'd rather take a WZ full of PVE geared ppl than no WZ's at all, because thats currently how it is on my server. 3 hrs in queue and not a single WZ pop. Fun!

 

Im not trying to win for any reason other then im trying to maximize my returs for time invested. I want to get my WH set but dont want to have to play 3 or 4 times the number of matches because my team keeps losing every match. Im not just PVP'ing to level either, I actually rather enjoy a nice close game. What I dont like is when we are getting pummeled by the other team and im the only one who breaks 6 medals an 100k damage on my team because someone simply refuses to gear properly.

 

If I win a match ill get 120-140 Comm's

If I lose a match ill get 60-80 Comm's

 

While it may not seem like a big difference, it is. Thats why you see all the premade groups running around in almost fully geared WH groups, because they win alot more then they lose so they get more comm's for the time invested. I run PUG almost exclusively.

 

Not the mention that you can kick out a PVP hero in your HM, I cant do that in my WZ. I know some of you said that you dont like the look of the gear, and I have to agree its ugly as hell, but so was Cent, Champ and Battlemaster so unless your planning on running in Orange 49 level gear until you hit WH then this doesnt hold water either.

[Xsorus]

Personally, if I don't see you in anything like Recruit gear or better in terms of pvp gear, and i see you in PVE gear, I'll berate you before the entire Warfront until you get some..

 

I've done it plenty of times..

 

Call people out enough they learn from their mistakes... and not using PVP gear is a huge mistake.

[L-RANDLE]

Yes cos lying about stats would matter how? Its not like you cant check it on any website or so what a set gives. And what optimal modding options there are.

 

My sorc is running in stalker gear, I prefered those set bonuses over the others, and alacrity would only apply to my force lighting, so would be a total waste in general.

 

I did however miss one thing, I do have BM ear and implants aswell with those stats, so cul set plus rakata ear, imps, bracers, belt and weapon would be the correct setup, with the matrix relic. I cant remember but if my memory serves me right my gear is optimized around surge and power in every piece. Ripped glove mods/enhancements in all pieces. So maybe that comparison wont work in the end.

 

But feel free to run around in whatever gear you find good and go against the stream that says and has proven that since 1.2 expertise is the way to go. There is no reason for me to test it further, it has even been explained in several links you have posted and not read yourself.

 

The difference in damage, survivability and healing is just to big to pass up. Pure % buffs are better than formula based stat buffs that suffers a DR very quickly i.e all secondary stats besides power suffer from DR, expertise starts suffering at a much higher peak.

 

edit: Will actually go and check my assassins stats, can easily check what damage deathfield does for him in recruit gear.

 

Assassin stats in full recruit gear, BM belt, BM bracer, matrix relic, champ shield generator, champ relic. Sin buff, BH buff, agent buff, rakata stim.

 

WP: 1293

End: 1243

Bonus dmg: 336 Melee, 550 Force

Exp: 16.74%, 14.34%, 9.17%

Crit: 27.40% Melee, 26.34 Force

Surge: 62.12% 84 Rating

Deathfield dmg: 1299-1363 (1516-1591 vs players with no expertise)

 

There is a difference between those stats and my sorc, but my sorc is also optimized for surge and power. Versus any other gear that isnt yet optimized recruit gear does just fine. Not even PvE gear starts with optimized stats, so you sacrifice alot on alacrit or accuracy, stats that just arent really good as dps in pvp, especially not as a madsin.

 

So now I have to compare to a Sin... Great.... again, you switch the examples to suit you. ARE YOU SURE on this one? So what is my criteria, Matix cube, Columi relics, all lvl 50 epics?

[RoninUTA]

Personally, if I don't see you in anything like Recruit gear or better in terms of pvp gear, and i see you in PVE gear, I'll berate you before the entire Warfront until you get some..

 

I've done it plenty of times..

 

Call people out enough they learn from their mistakes... and not using PVP gear is a huge mistake.

I do not see how this behavior is any better than griefing. I openly take constructive criticism under consideration, but it by no means should be taken that I will immediately fall into compliance and buy some armor. It may be a mistake in terms of game mechanics, but it no mistake in terms of how people want to play their game.

[L-RANDLE]

Assassin stats in full recruit gear, BM belt, BM bracer, matrix relic, champ shield generator, champ relic. Sin buff, BH buff, agent buff, rakata stim.

 

WP: 1293

End: 1243

Bonus dmg: 336 Melee, 550 Force

Exp: 16.74%, 14.34%, 9.17%

Crit: 27.40% Melee, 26.34 Force

Surge: 62.12% 84 Rating

Deathfield dmg: 1299-1363 (1516-1591 vs players with no expertise)

Ok here you go.

WP: 1542

End: 1343

Bonus DMG: 688.9 FORCE

Exp: N/A

Crit: 36.66%(!) Force

Surge: 72.26%(!)

Force in Balance DMG: 1557 -1622 (1338-1424 vs you)

 

Remember when I said.. its like a 224HP difference if it was 1:1. 167... the more pieces you add the WORSE the trade off is. Remember when I said crit rating would be different because my main stat is WAY higher. Remember when I said, that HP difference in mitigation costs you about 8x the HP....

Believe me now?

Here is the screen just in case......

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORPUREPVE.png

 

You accused me of trolling, BSing, and saying the links were worthless. Do I dare say I know more about the game than BW, of course not. I also don't take what people say at facevalue. Especially since the basis for all calcs are readily available. If I told you what I was wearing, you would think Georg is on crack too....

Edited May 15, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[Infalliable]

Trust me, even if you have full Campaign gear, you still will want to mix in the Recruit set for all but maybe 2 pieces or if the 4 set piece is just that good. Anyone wearing full PvE gear is just a free kill unless they're a tank, and in that case you can just ignore them.

 

I'm still not seeing it unless my math is way off on how expertise is factored in.

 

Going from Rataka gear to recruit gear on a per piece basis, you're taking up to a 3% hit to your primary stat, endurance and most of the secondary stats. Endurance and your primary stat scale linearly with no DR, so it's roughly a 3% drop to your damage output and overall HP. The armor rating also takes a hit, but we'll ignore that since it's so non-linear in it's effect and may not have much overall impact. Campaign gear would have an even greater dropoff.

 

For that loss, you get ~1% expertise bonus damage and ~1% expertise damage reduction on the recruit gear. So it makes up only a portion of the loss. You're still a net negative.

 

This is also not factoring in any loss to crit rating, surge, and power as those have also taken a pretty noticeable hit by using recruit gear over Rataka.

 

The only thing that the recruit gear may be better for is survivability if you're being healed heavily and your armor rating is subject to heavy DR so the bonus armor rating's effect from the rataka is minimal.

 

Now when we compare recruit gear to the fresh L50 blues and such, yes the recruit is clearly superior.

 

I've also not seen it in my play. I still rack up top 3 damage in just about every warzone and a high kill count w/o AOE padding going against mostly BM players with some WH gear.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Infalliable

[NuSeC]

The fact is that they implemented a new Expertise stat budget and a new tier of gear for ranked warzones and then didn't roll out the ranked warzones. I don't think there would be much of a problem if you had ranked pre-mades in BM/ War Hero playing each other and fresh 50 PUGS in Orange/ Recruit playing each other. It would actually be a nice bridge from the 1-49 bracket.

 

Not a bad idea unless you are on a low pop server where even including the newbies you are waiting on a 30- 45 min pop on WZs... and that is during peak hrs.

 

 

Really I am starting to not care one way or the other about much anything on here. server pops are killing this game for me and they are doing nothing about the SINGLE BIGGEST ISSUE WE HAVE NOW. /rant

 

To me everything else is just secondary imho.

[netskink]

Personally, if I don't see you in anything like Recruit gear or better in terms of pvp gear, and i see you in PVE gear, I'll berate you before the entire Warfront until you get some..

 

I've done it plenty of times..

 

Call people out enough they learn from their mistakes... and not using PVP gear is a huge mistake.

 

You know there was a guy who did this to my jugg. He had three pieces of exp gear. A centurian/champion weapon/offhand and nothing else. At the end of the match, I had 11 medals and he had 4. The very next game, I beat him in medals again. It was not until the third match that he was able to outscore me in medals. However, by that time I had gotten my three wins and the daily was over. So, I logged to my operative with full bm gear and one crafted bm gloves and a blue power augment. Not a super star gear set at all. I proceeded to pwn him in his war hero augmented gear until it became a sad day. Seriously expertise gear is wonderfull for pvp, but it is not necessary to max medals or win games.

 

Yesterday I was playing with my pal who is wearing some lvl 40 pvp gear as a 50. Seriously he is undergeared. The first game, he was on the opposite team and I was on my op. We were talking in vent as we were playing. I picked up the adrenal in huttball and saw him on the ramp. I even told him via vent I was about to pwn a noob. I killed him in a matter of seconds. It was so fast, he did not even recognize me. He said, "Yah, I just got killed my an assassin." I laughed and told him it was me. I thought it was funny considering he did not even know it was an operative.

 

Later, I was on my bodygaurd combat medic which has a full set of bm set gear, but no other exp gear - just the 5/5 set items. The rest is pve purples, 49/50. This guy with his incredibly bad gear and me in my mediocre gear were buddies in the wz with three nodes. I think its called novare coast. While our entire team went to the south/middle node, we went to east node, capped it and then went to the west node. We never intended to cap it. We just went there to probe/harass the node. We tied down three to four people there with just two below average toons. For me, two guys able to tie up three to four guys is plenty good.

 

So, what I am trying to tell you, is that you want to rambo things then yes exp gear is a requirment. However, if you realize your limitations you can use your pve gear to play and be successful.

[L-RANDLE]

I'm still not seeing it unless my math is way off on how expertise is factored in.

 

Going from Rataka gear to recruit gear on a per piece basis, you're taking up to a 3% hit to your primary stat, endurance and most of the secondary stats. Endurance and your primary stat scale linearly with no DR, so it's roughly a 3% drop to your damage output and overall HP. The armor rating also takes a hit, but we'll ignore that since it's so non-linear in it's effect and may not have much overall impact. Campaign gear would have an even greater dropoff.

 

For that loss, you get ~1% expertise bonus damage and ~1% expertise damage reduction on the recruit gear. So it makes up only a portion of the loss. You're still a net negative.

 

This is also not factoring in any loss to crit rating, surge, and power as those have also taken a pretty noticeable hit by using recruit gear over Rataka.

 

The only thing that the recruit gear may be better for is survivability if you're being healed heavily and your armor rating is subject to heavy DR so the bonus armor rating's effect from the rataka is minimal.

 

Now when we compare recruit gear to the fresh L50 blues and such, yes the recruit is clearly superior.

 

I've also not seen it in my play. I still rack up top 3 damage in just about every warzone and a high kill count w/o AOE padding going against mostly BM players with some WH gear.

 

Don't believe the hype. Recuit gear is about the same level as oranges with 50 epics, un-augmented at that. You want more 411, send me a tell...

Edited May 15, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[AlyxDinas]

It may be a mistake in terms of game mechanics, but it no mistake in terms of how people want to play their game.

 

This statement feels pretty vapid and needlessly sentimental, honestly. Appealing to "how they want to play their game" sounds like a token attempt to sound moral or something. I can't think of many people who would want to intentionally gimp their playing experience. Those that do either don't know what they're doing, do know and wish to handicap themselves for the challenge, or are probably intentionally trying to make an *** of themselves.

 

Two of the three are actually hampering their team and the experience of other players.

[Infalliable]

Don't believe the hype. Recuit gear is about the same level as oranges with 50 epics, un-augmented at that. You want more 411, send me a tell...

 

Ok, that is what I was getting at. Everyone seems so starstruck with Recruit gear, but when you do the analysis of it, it's mostly ok gear for newbies. Most decent OPs PVE gear is vastly superior, yet so many people seem to insistent that "you must have recruit gear'" at a minimum and any PVE gear is worthless.

[L-RANDLE]

Ok, that is what I was getting at. Everyone seems so starstruck with Recruit gear, but when you do the analysis of it, it's mostly ok gear for newbies. Most decent OPs PVE gear is vastly superior, yet so many people seem to insistent that "you must have recruit gear'" at a minimum and any PVE gear is worthless.

 

Drink from the river of knowledge my friend.... But don't be surprised if they buff expertise again, I would...

[L-RANDLE]

Honestly, we shouldnt try to get that message across to those people, because lets face it, those free kill rakata people are nice to have ont he other team.

 

*crickets*

[funkiestj]

Not a bad idea unless you are on a low pop server where even including the newbies you are waiting on a 30- 45 min pop on WZs... and that is during peak hrs.

 

 

Really I am starting to not care one way or the other about much anything on here. server pops are killing this game for me and they are doing nothing about the SINGLE BIGGEST ISSUE WE HAVE NOW. /rant

 

To me everything else is just secondary imho.

 

on Mos Eisley radio, D.E. said they had to do cross server WZ when they started doing ranked WZ otherwise it would take too long to queue even on populated servers. With cross server WZ queuing, local server population is irrelevant.

 

When we'll get ranked WZ + cross server queuing is another matter...

[SneakyErvin]

Ok here you go.

WP: 1542

End: 1343

Bonus DMG: 688.9 FORCE

Exp: N/A

Crit: 36.66%(!) Force

Surge: 72.26%(!)

Force in Balance DMG: 1557 -1622 (1338-1424 vs you)

 

Remember when I said.. its like a 224HP difference if it was 1:1. 167... the more pieces you add the WORSE the trade off is. Remember when I said crit rating would be different because my main stat is WAY higher. Remember when I said, that HP difference in mitigation costs you about 8x the HP....

Believe me now?

Here is the screen just in case......

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORPUREPVE.png

 

You accused me of trolling, BSing, and saying the links were worthless. Do I dare say I know more about the game than BW, of course not. I also don't take what people say at facevalue. Especially since the basis for all calcs are readily available. If I told you what I was wearing, you would think Georg is on crack too....

 

You compare a full epic gear to recruit gear, you dont even tell us what pieces are used. Your abilites are roughly 10% behind my recruit geared toon in PvP and you have 1000 hp more as a trade off. Not even worth it. And this is not a tier for tier example we compare here. Its a still unknown epic pve set vs recruit.

 

What happens when you compare this to the champ geared sorc I listed. Who was in champ gear, BM weapon, belt, bracer, neck, implants and matrix relic.

 

I'll list the stats again for you.

 

willp. 1576

endurance 1335

b-dmg 692

exp 804 (16.89%, 14.30%, 9.14%)

crit 30%

surge 76.36 342 rating

deathfield dmg 1583-1628 (1850-1903 with exp)

Creeping terror 1856/18s (2169/18s with exp)

Froce lighting 2858/3s (3341/3s with exp)

 

Oh my, same or higher stats than you showed with you PvE gear. So how far behind does that put your PvE gear?

 

You see those 1000 extra HP just dont matter even vs the recruit gear. Because you will be that far behind in damage that it will still take you the same amount of hits to take down a recruit geared player as it takes him to get you to zero.

 

Not sure what 8x HP you talk about. 1243 end vs 1343 end isnt very much, it is infact exactly 1000 hp difference.

 

Your 36% crit rating vs my 27% means you get one more crit than me in each ten hits.

 

You keep agruing even though you just proved that even in PvE gear you come out at 10% less damage on all abilites vs someone in recruit gear. If you managed to break even vs expertise while wearing pve gear while keeping a higher end it would be a different story, but you are dealing less damage with barely any endurance gain.

 

And again, this is PvE epic gear (epic above level 49 epic mods) vs recruit gear, when we get to champion/bm, bm/wh and pure wh sets there is no single pve set that gets even close in preformance in PvP. Your deathfield is behind, just like every other ability. If this was vs a recruit geared sorc you would also be behind on the healing, struggling vs a full trauma debuff when the sorc would only have -20% healing.

 

Sorry for not answering earlier, been busy playing Diablo 3.

Edited May 17, 2012 by SneakyErvin

[Nuzt]

I would be ok with this if they lowered the price, recruit gear isn't rediculous but a fresh 50 thats worked on crew skills/paid for speeders/paid for skills just dont have the cash generally. It doesn't take long to get the money but when I hit 50 guess what ? I'm sick of PvE grinding and want to kill people, so farming the cash is out of the question.

[-Requiem-]

Blah, blah, blah. It's a game, they can do whatever they want, just the same as you. Besides, I bet you don't complain at all when they end up on the other team.

 

This. One hundred million billion zillion gajillion percent this. This thread was ridiculous from the start. It's not about who's got how much money or how easy or hard it is to get the money to buy recruit armor. It's idiotic to insist that someone meet your own personal minimum requirements before even setting foot in a WZ. You're basically saying to them "be the PvP'er and the player I want you to be, or don't PvP." Get over it. When you pay ppl's subs for them, then you can tell them how to play. Until then, stop trying to impose your will and your ego on people just because they're not doing exactly what you want them to.

 

Maybe these people won't last as long in a match without all the expertise, but again, that's not up to you. The only thing you can control about a PvP match is yourself and your own toon. So stat up, gear up, and load out, but stop trying to control other people. People play this game for different reasons, and those reasons are their own and not yours, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

I started out with recruit gear and eventually upgraded to full BM, but when it comes down to it, so what? It was a choice. I did what I wanted. If I were to choose not to get all this PvP armor, that would be fine too. Yes. It would be fine, because *I* pay my sub, not you.

[Gloga]

I think that recruit gear should be a requirement. People who come into a warzone undergeared already have to be carried by their teammates. People who come into a warzone without gear might as well not even be there. You don't want me yelling at you to do something you don't want to do. I dont' want you in the match I'm playing in. It forces me to do one of two things: I can carry your useless hide through the match, or I can quit. You bring down the game experience for everyone in that match because you refuse to get recruit gear.

 

Is it elitist? Probably, but I don't really care, people who don't buy recruit gear are damaging my game experience making it more difficult to win and slowing my progession so I can speed up yours. I think its a bit more elitist to think that you are so special that you shouldn't have to carry your own weight in a match.

 

(yes they should make recruit gear free by the way)

Edited May 18, 2012 by Gloga

[L-RANDLE]

You compare a full epic gear to recruit gear, you dont even tell us what pieces are used. Your abilites are roughly 10% behind my recruit geared toon in PvP and you have 1000 hp more as a trade off. Not even worth it. And this is not a tier for tier example we compare here. Its a still unknown epic pve set vs recruit.

 

What happens when you compare this to the champ geared sorc I listed. Who was in champ gear, BM weapon, belt, bracer, neck, implants and matrix relic.

 

I'll list the stats again for you.

 

willp. 1576

endurance 1335

b-dmg 692

exp 804 (16.89%, 14.30%, 9.14%)

crit 30%

surge 76.36 342 rating

deathfield dmg 1583-1628 (1850-1903 with exp)

Creeping terror 1856/18s (2169/18s with exp)

Froce lighting 2858/3s (3341/3s with exp)

 

Oh my, same or higher stats than you showed with you PvE gear. So how far behind does that put your PvE gear?

 

You see those 1000 extra HP just dont matter even vs the recruit gear. Because you will be that far behind in damage that it will still take you the same amount of hits to take down a recruit geared player as it takes him to get you to zero.

 

Not sure what 8x HP you talk about. 1243 end vs 1343 end isnt very much, it is infact exactly 1000 hp difference.

 

Your 36% crit rating vs my 27% means you get one more crit than me in each ten hits.

 

You keep agruing even though you just proved that even in PvE gear you come out at 10% less damage on all abilites vs someone in recruit gear. If you managed to break even vs expertise while wearing pve gear while keeping a higher end it would be a different story, but you are dealing less damage with barely any endurance gain.

 

And again, this is PvE epic gear (epic above level 49 epic mods) vs recruit gear, when we get to champion/bm, bm/wh and pure wh sets there is no single pve set that gets even close in preformance in PvP. Your deathfield is behind, just like every other ability. If this was vs a recruit geared sorc you would also be behind on the healing, struggling vs a full trauma debuff when the sorc would only have -20% healing.

 

Sorry for not answering earlier, been busy playing Diablo 3.

10%: LOL.... 10% on an attack of 1400=??????? HUGE difference..... I betta run for the hills when I see you coming.

Hopefully this will end your expertise luv...

Recruit=Cent=50epics

Champ=Columi

BM=RAK

Recruit is on par, if not better than Centurion gear

 

What do you think I was wearing? You still don't understand that the higher tier gears are even worse than the example I gave you. "Oh my", you might have a point if you could actually get champ gear anymore, but you can't (I do have those pieces as well). You act like I am advocating wearing 50 epics versus champ. What don't you understand about TIER FOR TIER? Champ is not on the same tier 50 epics in oranges or TIO/XENO/ENER, so saying the previous example is "outclassed" by your champ/BM toon is poor comprehension to inflate your stance. I'll can go full columi versus your champ/BM geared and guess what? It doesn't matter because we still get back to the same point where the stats are so damn close it don't matter.

Do me a favor? Since you want to get a real example for how it don't matter either go to askmrrobot and put on the EXACT pieces you have(you can customize the slots as well) since you are so "shy" about showing screens of you toon, so I can have a feasible reference.

[JediDuckling]

Well I'm not sure you suggestion is plausible but I do agree that it is very annoying when that happens. I play on a good population server so the que time isn't a problem for me but I don't understand why people PvP in quest/instance gear when the recruit gear can be purchased for a days worth of dailies basically. Like I think you can buy the entire set for less than 300k, which you can earn by doing all the dailies for one day, so I just don't see why you wouldn't get the set.

 

The recruit gear isn't the greatest thing or anything but you will certainly have a much better chance than when you come in there with your quest items on from leveling.

 

not everyone has all day to do dailys for a start, some people have lives and jobs and irl things, not everyone can sit infront of a PC all day playing mmo's, this is what you elitist pigs need to consider.

im going to join your server and delibratly que in lvl 10 greens at lvl 50 just to annoy you for being a selfish pig.

Edited May 18, 2012 by JediDuckling

[L-RANDLE]

not everyone has all day to do dailys for a start, some people have lives and jobs and irl things, not everyone can sit infront of a PC all day playing mmo's, this is what you elitist pigs need to consider.

im going to join your server and delibratly que in lvl 10 greens at lvl 50 just to annoy you for being a selfish pig.

 

You can get 8 dailies in 20 mins....

[JayPres]

not everyone has all day to do dailys for a start, some people have lives and jobs and irl things, not everyone can sit infront of a PC all day playing mmo's, this is what you elitist pigs need to consider.

im going to join your server and delibratly que in lvl 10 greens at lvl 50 just to annoy you for being a selfish pig.

 

So you don't have time to because of irl things to get the neccessary gear. But you do have the time to grind up a level 50 with the intention of griefing 1 person with your incompetency?

 

I swear some people cut off their nose to spite their own face at times and seem happy to do so.

[SneakyErvin]

10%: LOL.... 10% on an attack of 1400=??????? HUGE difference..... I betta run for the hills when I see you coming.

Hopefully this will end your expertise luv...

Recruit=Cent=50epics

Champ=Columi

BM=RAK

 

What do you think I was wearing? You still don't understand that the higher tier gears are even worse than the example I gave you. "Oh my", you might have a point if you could actually get champ gear anymore, but you can't (I do have those pieces as well). You act like I am advocating wearing 50 epics versus champ. What don't you understand about TIER FOR TIER? Champ is not on the same tier 50 epics in oranges or TIO/XENO/ENER, so saying the previous example is "outclassed" by your champ/BM toon is poor comprehension to inflate your stance. I'll can go full columi versus your champ/BM geared and guess what? It doesn't matter because we still get back to the same point where the stats are so damn close it don't matter.

Do me a favor? Since you want to get a real example for how it don't matter either go to askmrrobot and put on the EXACT pieces you have(you can customize the slots as well) since you are so "shy" about showing screens of you toon, so I can have a feasible reference.

 

Sorry but this is where you are off. Recruit is between champ and cent gear statwise and above champ when it comes to expertise, so yes you are infact more or less advocating 50 epics vs recruit. You look at one class (sage/sorc) and go "derp derp too much stat difference". However, some classes gain alot more by picking their recruit pieces instead of modded level 50 orange gear.

 

And we arent talking about 10% on a as you put it "10%: LOL... 10% on an attack of 1400..", its 10% less on every spell no matter what it does. The recruit gear will out damage you in PvP with those sets you compared, and thats the worst itemized set out there, the sage/shadow recruit set. When it comes to BH/Troop they have a significant power boost that comes with the expertise aswell. And all you get are a lousy 1k extra HP over the recruit gear.

[RikHar]

Like I think you can buy the entire set for less than 300k, which you can earn by doing all the dailies for one day, .

 

 

 

 

 

Talk about exaggerations.

 

You don't make 300k on 1 days dailies.

[bryanchris]

As a full spec Tank if i go Recruit gear I drop from 22k to about 14k. I normally place mid on DMG, protection and healing at about 50k. And as for requiring it, some of us que up for fun to hang out with our fellow guild mates, not to be all uber PVP'rs. Blame BW for no ranked war-zones, cause till then my drunk but will be playing in PVP without recruit gear and slowly gearing up, but I will be having fun with my friends and that is what I pay my sub for.

 

Best regards

 

Nath a true PVP slacker.

Edited May 19, 2012 by bryanchris