Valis is not beatable @ 24

[Maxiim]

I'm completely amazed that people aren't pushing level 26 or higher when they reach this guy. Are you just flat out skipping ALL side quests? I did every single quest, and all space missions up to him, and I was level 29. Some of you are reaching him at 21???

 

And I still think people that are struggling with him, have no idea what Force Kick is, or what it does.

 

If you are TRULY struggling with this guy, I seriously suggest trying a different class...

[Metaspark]

I'm completely amazed that people aren't pushing level 26 or higher when they reach this guy. Are you just flat out skipping ALL side quests?

 

no

 

but I have skipped quite a few. got to Alderaan at 27, went back to Tattooine to get to 28 and get some better gear with all my commendations. went back at 28, and am now a little ways into 29 after saving Orgus Din

[Gravh]

PvPing for 5+ years in WoW as a warrior has made the guardian abilities practically 2nd nature. I honestly don't think I've died to a story boss yet. For the people who are new to mmo's I can definitely see why it would be hard though.

 

The first and best tip I can give is to bind extra hot keys. Every active ability you have should be bound. That base 1-0 bar isn't enough. I have over 30 spots bound on my keyboard for abilities, a variety between 1-6, q,e,v,f,g,x and then shift/alt modifiers for all the same keys. It is infinitely easier to interrupt an ability if you can quickly hit a key over having to click it.

 

Also, turn with you mouse. I don't even have turn bound on my keyboard. I remapped A and D to strafe, so I use WASD like a first person shooter. If you hold the right mouse button you can use your mouse to turn the camera and use W to move forward that way. Controlling the game like an FPS helps a lot when it comes to, say, running out of melee range and then doing a quick 180 turn so you can use leap as an interrupt.

 

Binding keys and using your mouse to turn are the two single biggest steps you can use for improving your play.

[JediMulla]

I was 26 when I came across him and he got me the first time because I wasn't ready for all that damage burst. However, when I resurrected, he was stuck in some sort of a force stasis and did not respond to my hits. Nailed that ***** within seconds

 

Thank you devs for the handicap matchup.

[CzaplaM]

http://1stvideogame.com/?p=2259 <-- If you can't beat him after reading this, you might as well go level to level 29.

[Hyperionthethird]

I'm completely amazed that people aren't pushing level 26 or higher when they reach this guy. Are you just flat out skipping ALL side quests? I did every single quest, and all space missions up to him, and I was level 29. Some of you are reaching him at 21???

 

And I still think people that are struggling with him, have no idea what Force Kick is, or what it does.

 

If you are TRULY struggling with this guy, I seriously suggest trying a different class...

 

space missions make a big difference. I ignored them unless I needed an exp boost to reach the recommended level for the next planet. And I skipped bonus series. I was 23 when I got to him. But I did every side quest excluding bonus series. Which is really about the way it's designed, you're the one who did something really weird and got way ahead of the leveling curve.

[Cavegeta]

space missions make a big difference. I ignored them unless I needed an exp boost to reach the recommended level for the next planet. And I skipped bonus series. I was 23 when I got to him. But I did every side quest excluding bonus series. Which is really about the way it's designed, you're the one who did something really weird and got way ahead of the leveling curve.

 

I got to him at level 27 by just doing all quests, the bonus series on Taris, and the Heroic on Tython. At that point, I had not done any FP, space missions, etc. I was barely able to beat him once I got to level 28. Then the quest bugged and I had to do it again and then only barely beat him.

 

As I think I've said earlier in this thread, I had an easier time beating him the first time I ever played him at lvl 24 with Kira using only a stim and no medpacks. I did it on the second or third try just by using techniques listed here (force kick, back to the wall, etc.) I had a harder time beating him using those same techniques three weeks later with a toon that was 4 lvls higher than he was.

 

The thing that is great about the Valis fight is that it's essentially the equivalent of a year end test in school whereby you have to use everything that you've learned (or should have) to beat him. Haven't been using interrupts...you're dead. Don't form some sort of strategy before jumping in...you're dead. I DON'T WANT that to change at all. I felt like I'd really accomplished something since lots of people seemed to be having problems with him at the time.

 

Since this thread is still around, I'm just curious if something changed in the game mechanic. Obviously, people are still having trouble with the fight and all the remedies have been repeated ad nauseum.

[Esquire]

Just canceled today over this particular issue. Played a LS jedi for 7 years in SWG.

 

All this told me is the general forums are correct in Guard jedi being very underpowered. Ran into a bit of this on the last planet as NPC balance seemed to be adjusted way too much there and culminated with this quest. Just a couple of thousand points off of 26 and have completed all the side quests, everywhere (even the bugged ones). Heroics have been out of balance since Taris so I simply stopped doing them there.

 

This NPC is a 24 elite between Nar Shadaa and where-ever you end up next. Can not take any other pet with you other than the other underpowered jedi pet. If this PVE class quest is this stupid now, I can't even imagine what it will be later on or in PVP.

 

I should of known that tanking in TOR would be a mess when I started seeing that your "tanking skill" depended on the random number generator.

 

If they ever get around to doing something about guard jedi I may come back and look at the game again. Other than that, I'll wait for Secret World.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Esquire

[Sektra]

Valis is beatable at 24. I did it on my Sentinel with T7. After dying twice, I read somewhere to turn off T7's 'grappling' ability and try it then. It worked like a charm. And use force kick whenever you can. Did I pop a medkit and call on the heroic, sure. Did I almost die a third, got close. Did T7 die? Yeah. Poor guy.

[Qece]

I just did this at level 23 and I have to say it wasn't as hard as I was expecting.

 

Did it first time with about half health left (Kira died). Just made sure I got as many interrupts in as possible and made sure both myself and Kira were properly kitted out before going there.

 

I did read somewhere that you should stand with your back to the near wall so you don't get thrown across the hangar but I decided against that so I could use Force Leap to immediately get back into the fight.

[Aeryl]

Don't be such a jerk. I've been a kick-tail tank for years and I still haven't figured out the animation keys/timing for half the interrupts. Which is the issue so many people have.

 

I know to use them, I just don't know what the appropriate animations are...

 

So, instead of being a self-righteous gamer, you could have explained the animations... But no... You just want to rub it in the face of others...

 

Lol then no, you're not a "kick-tail" tank if you can't realize this stuff after seeing it twice at the most. What animations do you need to know? There's a BIG HONKING OBVIOUS CASTBAR right above your target's info. When it pops up, you interrupt. If you can't see stuff like that, you are bad.

[Aeryl]

All this told me is the general forums are correct in Guard jedi being very underpowered.

 

All it tells me is that most people don't know what they're doing. I think the only time I lost a boss fight in a class quest was when I wasn't paying attention and started the dialogue with less than 50% health. I did all the quests as a Guardian and I soloed every Heroic 2 up to Alderaan or so because I understand what the abilities are for and kept my gear up to date.

[EzoEo]

Just canceled today over this particular issue. Played a LS jedi for 7 years in SWG.

 

All this told me is the general forums are correct in Guard jedi being very underpowered. Ran into a bit of this on the last planet as NPC balance seemed to be adjusted way too much there and culminated with this quest. Just a couple of thousand points off of 26 and have completed all the side quests, everywhere (even the bugged ones). Heroics have been out of balance since Taris so I simply stopped doing them there.

 

This NPC is a 24 elite between Nar Shadaa and where-ever you end up next. Can not take any other pet with you other than the other underpowered jedi pet. If this PVE class quest is this stupid now, I can't even imagine what it will be later on or in PVP.

 

I should of known that tanking in TOR would be a mess when I started seeing that your "tanking skill" depended on the random number generator.

 

If they ever get around to doing something about guard jedi I may come back and look at the game again. Other than that, I'll wait for Secret World.

 

I have to wonder after reading posts like this if people just they could wonder and in and own the boss with their dps.

 

I did it on my 2nd attempt at lvl 24 and took in stims, the bio-chem heals for companion and made sure I was fully prepared.

 

These quests are there to make you learn your class and if failed its because you did something wrong.

 

There is an saying that winners never quit and quitters never win

[Esquire]

I have to wonder after reading posts like this if people just they could wonder and in and own the boss with their dps.

 

I did it on my 2nd attempt at lvl 24 and took in stims, the bio-chem heals for companion and made sure I was fully prepared.

 

These quests are there to make you learn your class and if failed its because you did something wrong.

 

There is an saying that winners never quit and quitters never win

 

You appearently have me confused with someone who cares.

 

This need to put your back to the crate, use "interupt" just before they do this or that simply does not appeal to me. If it does to you, I'm happy for you. I didn't like WoW either when I tried it back in 06 due to the NGE and didn't make it thru the 30 days that came with that box, also. If that's what WoW held for gameplay, no wonder I didn't care much for it. It's been so long, I really don't remember how WoW was and care even less.

 

It wasn't the only reason for hitting the cancel button in TOR but it was the iceing on the cake. Personly, I do not like the "chance for this or that to happen" as all I've ever seen with abilities like this is it's a really easy silent nerf or uppage when devs feel like it. You either are amazed at your ability to do this or that, that you couldn't do pre-patch, or your left wondering why you couldn't do the things you did yesterday. Way to many "chance for this to happen" things in this game for me. I'll take stats I can rely on and build to anyday, expecialy for being a "tank" class in an MMO. And, I'll bet that I've probably played them longer than most have.

 

Probably the largest reason for that magical cancel button is the lack of ANY player freedoms in this game. Complete scripted quests for leveling (altho I probably could of gotten by that in the long-term) but now I find complete scripted combat or it's "programed to die" development. Do this here, do that there, follow the script like a good little boy, and your home free. If you actualy cause yourself to play against what a developer calls the norm, you end up not being able to proceed with the quest. And since this is a class quest, you can't proceed with the game. So, I took this specific developers recomendation and didn't proceed with their game. Hense, the cancel button.

 

Way too many knockbacks, knockdowns, stuns, etc. So many that it lags out the engine trying to process all of it. Why do devs just process things tied to the "cool factor" with a total disregard for the functioning of their own game?

 

Specials meant for no other reasoning than to slow progress down. Fight, meditate to heal, fight again, meditate to heal, and so on, and so on, and so on. Why? Why have that fast meditate NON-COMBAT heal in the game in the 1st place. Why not make ev1 heal that fast without the button? Why would a player even need it if the development was done correctly? Level 25 with 4 bars going already with things on every one of them. I can't even imagine what it would be at 50.

 

Only heal is a WoWified "heal pot"? For a tank? I believe I said I didn't like WoW in 06. But, I seem to remember that the Pal I played way back when in WoW had a class heal, if memory serves....

 

All this, for myself anyway, amounts to: that SW:TOR is someone else's game and someone else's idea of what the class actualy is that I chose to play. It is simply not mine and never would be. It will always be theirs as long as someone follows the script. No abilities of choice, a build, nor a playstyle that bucks the normal, or in this case the specific script, that is complety developed into this game in now all aspects. I can understand this in quests to a certain degree, but combat?

 

You may like it and more power to you. The simple fact remains I didn't so they don't get my sub nor money. (except for the 150 buck box I bought - really 2 150 buck boxes, wife quit long before I did, which are now both gathering dust on the top shelf of the closet) And if you look at the join date, I've been following this game for quite some time.

 

I played SWG for too many years so I tend to play things I like (even when developers tick me off to no end with their changes) for the long term. And, I guess, I leave games I didn't like rather quickly. IE: WoW, AoC, and now TOR.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Esquire

[PanzerKing]

You appearently have me confused with someone who cares.

 

This need to put your back to the crate, use "interupt" just before they do this or that simply does not appeal to me.

 

Well in that case you should probably quit playing MMORPGs altogether. Having to exercise a small amount of forethought and situational awareness is required in all MMOs.

 

In fact, those skills are required in pretty much all video games. Maybe you should just find a new hobby? I honestly can't recommend any games where you can just mash random buttons without paying any attention to what your opponent is doing, only to be rewarded with loot, which seems to be what you're looking for.

[Venator-Falco]

Esquire you are full of contradictions.

You don’t want things to be scripted, but you also don’t want there to be a chance of one thing or an other happening.

 

In this thread there is advice on the best way to win against Valis

You don’t have to put your back against the boxes, I have completed the fight twice (Once in Beta once in live)In Beta I did it without putting my back to the boxes, and by leaving my force leap to re-engage as required, It was harder, but it was doable the Advice here is about how to make things easier, all the tips and tricks people have brought together. You have said you don’t like knockbacks and stuns… Why? These are the sort of things that make a fight more variable… Less… Scripted. They make it so you have to consider your placement, when to use your CC breaking abilities, how to manage the mobs abilities.

If you don’t like variability in how things play out, then don’t play any game that has randomisation. Chess would be a good game for you, but don’t play Backgammon

And don’t play most computer games because random number generators are core to how they work.

 

Lastly, you have come into a thread that gives advice on how to achieve a goal, when that advice is given you respond with “You appearently have me confused with someone who cares.” So really you didn’t want advice, you just wanted to ****** about the game. It appears in the rest of your rant you are intent on cancelling your subscription. Seriously, with an attitude like yours… You won’t be missed.

[Maxiim]

You can take my post as insulting if you want, but the bottom line is:

 

He's not hard... at all.

 

If he is hard to you, then you are seriously doing something wrong or are very inexperienced with either MMO's, or melee classes within MMO's.

 

If he's THAT bad, find a friend to join you and 4 man him (LOL)

Edited February 13, 2012 by Maxiim

[myost]

I have not yet got this far into the game, so I can't comment on the difficulty of this fight.

 

What I can comment on is some of the troubles people are having. Some of this may be stating the obvious, but not all of us are seasoned mmo players. This is my first mmo and while I have picked up the learning curve quickly, other may not have. Instead of berating them, why not try and help them out?

 

One big problem I am reading is that people are using the wrong companion. Sentinels, you need to be using T7. You are too squishy to be using Kira. You will far outdamage her turning the bosses hate on you and then you wipe. This problem seems to mainly only occur with sentinels, meaning I haven't seen too many guardians say that they used T7. Perhaps this is from tanks having a better understanding of the aggro mechanic.

 

What I have seen Guardians doing wrong is that they are not truly tanking. Kira should have guard on her all the time. If she does not have guard on her, she WILL pull aggro off of you and she will die. You do not deal out enough damage to take this fight on your own. Guard her always and use taunt to keep him on you at all times. Let Kira do what she does which is beat the hell out of things w/ that double bladed saber.

 

Lastly, what others have been saying, interrupt is your best friend in any fight. By this level, you should have three interrupts which is more than enough to prevent him from ever getting anything too crazy off on you.

 

Hope this helps!

[Venator-Falco]

Myost.

There are a lot of us that have provided a lot of very constructive feedback in this and other threads, and this is specifically because some people don’t have the experiences, and this gives them a leg-up to being able to enjoy their game.

 

But… And this is important, when people provide constructive feedback, but keep being told no the whole class is broken, when we have played it as much or more than the people who are saying it is broken you can see how a little bit of frustration creeps into our responses.

 

Some of the content you have added is also very helpful along this same line, though I can say for a Fact that as a Sentinel you can level all the way through until you get Doc with Kira as your companion though it is probably not the optimal option. There is in fact a quest in the storyline (Won’t give details to avoid spoiling) where you need to use T7, but brining Kira out for the fights is much easier.

So yes companion selection, and utilising the companions strengths in concert with your own is important.

 

With the constructive attitude you have put in your post I will look forward to your feedback on the Valis issue once you have taken him on.

Happy Hunting

[myost]

Myost.

There are a lot of us that have provided a lot of very constructive feedback in this and other threads, and this is specifically because some people don’t have the experiences, and this gives them a leg-up to being able to enjoy their game.

 

But… And this is important, when people provide constructive feedback, but keep being told no the whole class is broken, when we have played it as much or more than the people who are saying it is broken you can see how a little bit of frustration creeps into our responses.

 

Some of the content you have added is also very helpful along this same line, though I can say for a Fact that as a Sentinel you can level all the way through until you get Doc with Kira as your companion though it is probably not the optimal option. There is in fact a quest in the storyline (Won’t give details to avoid spoiling) where you need to use T7, but brining Kira out for the fights is much easier.

So yes companion selection, and utilising the companions strengths in concert with your own is important.

 

With the constructive attitude you have put in your post I will look forward to your feedback on the Valis issue once you have taken him on.

Happy Hunting

 

I am looking forward to fighting Valis as well, as I am interested in seeing what the fuss is all about (don't want to go searching videos and ruin it for myself). I lurk on the forums quite a bit, but don't post a whole lot but will definitely leave my thoughts once I have taken on this fight.

 

You are definitely correct, quite a few people have left very constructive tips and tricks and not all criticism is destructive. I also agree that the "this class is broken" threads are tiresome. In my limited (lvl 20) experience with the class there is nothing broken about it. Challenging, absolutely, but not broken in the least. I feel like I have a healthy respect for what our class does well and what it does no do well and this has allowed me to so far go through the game with relative ease.

 

My first character was a sentinel and I used Kira almost exclusively once I got her. It was only after rolling up my guardian that I understood that I was gimping myself by not letting T7 tank for me. So I know that you can use Kira, but it's as you said certainly not optimal.

[Mrrshan]

wow, didn't even realise Valis was such an issue.

 

I beat him on my first attempt at lvl 23 on my sentinel. I have to say I love the game thus far, reached 34 last night.

 

All it takes is take a bit of time and read what your abilities do, realise when it's time to apply them and just do it. we have a fair number of abilities we can use to keep ourselves alive and the higher I get, the more and more I learn so that gives options.

 

Difficulty wise this fight is balanced perfectly and should not be dumbed down. There's nothing wrong with having to think a little every now and then.

[JamieKirby]

Well, that particular boss was one hell of a ****** to kill, but bioware have said that there are issues with the Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior that makes them need to make much more effort to do something that the other classes can do with much less effort.

[Malloron]

Well, that particular boss was one hell of a ****** to kill, but bioware have said that there are issues with the Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior that makes them need to make much more effort to do something that the other classes can do with much less effort.

 

Change that fact and there will be people leaving the game.

 

Im talking about those players who do not actively search for the "simplest most effective way", but the most challenging, rewarding and entertaining way.

 

TracermissileTracermissileTracermissile - Id quit after 5 minutes.

[Esquire]

Well, that particular boss was one hell of a ****** to kill, but bioware have said that there are issues with the Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior that makes them need to make much more effort to do something that the other classes can do with much less effort.

 

From reading this thread and the others on this subject, this seems to be a core design problem. From what I understand, the TOR version of Commando ( I believe it's called here trooper) is more of what the typical "tank" class is in in most MMOs, therefore, it's called "easy" via others. Damage mitigation, damage avoidance, and/or out healing damage. Guard seems to be designed to interupt the other guys specials instead of mitigation/healing. If they get the chance to fire, your dead. That to me, is a script with basicly no player freedom whatsoever. KoToR had 1 boss, end boss, that you had to do this with and it seems they have chosen to disregard the nomal MMO leveling design for what usualy appears in end game raids. (more WoWification IMHO) While that may not be a bad thing for the WoW players, for players that didn't like WoW or the game mechanics it becomes gamebreaking. But, after all, "12 million kiddies can't be wrong" was pretty much the catch phrase for SOE Austin with the re-make of SWG via the NGE. And if memory serves, Dallas Dickerson had a large part to play in that so it's not all that great a surprise that it appears here as well, I guess.

 

I have also seen the statements about LS jedi made from Bioware. This thread and the others on the exact same subject shows there is a problem. Hopefully, they get it fixed for ev1's satisfaction.

 

For my particular playstyle, TOR is very limiting. I tend to chose "outside the box" builds and are activly looking for these. (part of the reason I chose to point up their "WoW type talent system" in all 3 instead of just 1 like the script (and all the guides) say to do. Back in SWG, my build was not replicated and when I put it out, it got NERFed. (Seems even T2 didn't care that much for a DPS tank, either. Same in STO, I put a tac in a crusier (for tank and DPS) and a Eng in a escort for the same reasoning. Out of the script and what developers said was the optimum. But it was said in mumble just this weekend, by another "fleetmate", for an end game STF (raid) to have me take on 1 entire side, solo, while the rest of the group centered on the other side. I finished my side 1st (solo) and then went and helped them on theirs. Right now, I see no chance of that type of build happening in TOR. It's just too scripted for my taistes.

 

And for the guy who didn't get what I was talking about with "chance for this or that to happen", it isn't about the other guys specials or what happens in-game, it's about your own abilities. The "shield" is a large one, completly tied to the random number generator. I can go entire fights with never seeing it proc and then others when it will proc every other hit. That's a broken mechanic in my book. 1 that can not be relyed upon by anyone. The talent system is repleat with more of the same of this type of deal. Way too easy to NERF all these things without patch notes in my estimation, CHANGING my gameplay. And if you played SWG for as long as I had, you begin to look at any CHANGES with a watchful eye, patch notes or silent.

 

TOR wasn't going to be for ev1 and I knew that going in (as with every other game out there). It just seems, for me at least, that there is just too many instances where it wasn't for me. If they get it fixed, then I'll take another look at it as I really miss my SWG jedi. I have not loged into TOR since I ran into this deal last Fri (and hit that magical cancel button) and do not miss this one at all. That, in itself, could be another problem for Bioware in the long run.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Esquire

[coille]

I fought him for the second time last week and he went down second time. The first time I had screen problems as I'm playing this on a laptop with a flat pad instead of a mouse.

 

Fisrt time around he was hard but since then I've learned to play the game better and to use interupts.

 

I've found Lord Nefarid harder as

he keeps disappearing and moving around and you also have to dodge the Death Mark at the same time. Still got him second time too though.