Marauder/Sentinel: How to beat us

[jolleebindu]

Why the sudden mass QQ about marauders post 1.2? A good marauder pre 1.2 would dominate a warzone in the exact same fashion they do now. Do people need something else to ***** about now that sorcerers got nerfed?

 

in short, yes

[Soultyr]

OP the only class that has all the tools you have listed is a 31 pt balance sage.

 

 

kb, interupt, slow, stun, instant mez, speed escape and root.

 

The only thing they cant do is out damage the mara.

 

 

A balance sage can beat a mara in a 1v1, but barely. Though anything beyond a 1v1 goes to the maras because the difference in damage is that much. Maras pump out a great deal more damage than sages.

[xxdragonragexx]

Why the sudden mass QQ about marauders post 1.2? A good marauder pre 1.2 would dominate a warzone in the exact same fashion they do now. Do people need something else to ***** about now that sorcerers got nerfed?

 

The problem people are having isn't really about good marauders owning in pre or post 1.2. It is bad marauders not owning in pre 1.2 but suddenly owning in 1.2 due to fotm.

 

The 15% buff to master strike/ravage + uniterruptable + 8% dmg (if specced) is just ridiculous.

 

You add in Gore(100% armor penetration) plus Root then it is easy to see they are fotm.

Edited April 16, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[Ushela]

When a MAR is taking on 4 or 5 people and manages to kill 2 or 3 before he dies...that is pretty stupid considering my sorc dies in about 3 seconds if two people attack me at the same time..

 

I love the "avoid 1v1 against us to survive" advice.....that pretty sums up the problem there does it not? Ill be sure to summon my companion next time since I cant kill you solo...

[KBSIP]

I've gotten into a big habit of typing out elaborate posts and then deleting them because I know no one will read.

 

Let's keep it simple:

 

Damage was severely scaled up across the board, especially burst.

Burst healing was not scaled up at all, even to a parity or slightly below burst damage potential.

 

Because of this, burst DPS classes make healers without burst heal capability completely obsolete.

[Lord_Appollyon]

The only reason why so many whine about Mara is because the Favourite of "Last" month's classes - the lameness trinity of Op, sorc and Merc, can no longer bea them.

 

Van/PT, Sniper and Juggs have no such problem. However their decent at pvp at level 50 player numbers are relately small so you don't hear their voices.

 

If the player base of PTs and Snipers were as big as sorcs/ops/mercs you wouldn't see people whining about Mara, and Sorc would've still be considered FO"This"M.

 

I had to laugh aloud at this. Once people got wind of the changes in 1.2, most rerolled away from the classes getting nerfed... and rolled the classes which were strong and remained untouched or were getting buffed: Pyro PT, Tankasin, Mara. My server saw games literally full of PTs and Tankasins pre-patch and not much has changed since.

 

Ironically, those classes which you listed as "FOTLM" ALWAYS had problems against those classes regardless of spec.

[Anbokr]

Here's a shorter version understandable by most forum goers.

 

Annihilation: Dispel bleeds. hard countered.

 

Carnage: watch fore gore, save stuns, slows, knockbacks, roots, etc... for gore. hard countered.

 

Rage: Watch for the gimmick smash, it's impossible not to see them setting it up and predicting when they'll use it. Pop defensive CDs or knockback before or right as the smash goes off.

[Divinism]

You add in Gore(100% armor penetration) plus Root then it is easy to see they are fotm.

This is actually quite hard to pull off, because as soon people start noticing that they cannot move and that there is a marauder flailing next to them, they go "oh *****iii-" and start searching their spellbooks for closest CC / knockback. Meaning that most of the time I need to have a full resolve to perform this.

 

When done perfectly, Gore + Ravage into crit Force Scream is serious crapton of damage, but then again very easily avoidable, just stun / knock him during Ravage cast and he has effectively wasted his Gore and Ravage, then you can just laugh at his pathetic Massacre spam.

 

In Huttball however, Carnage is a teamplayer's dream. You have 3 effective roots + Force Choke to keep enemy flag carriers on fire traps, and you can bring 20 seconds of +80% ops wide speed buff (assuming pre-built 30 Fury / Centering and then using a CD for another 30).

[Tohelanbak]

The problem people are having isn't really about good marauders owning in pre or post 1.2. It is bad marauders not owning in pre 1.2 but suddenly owning in 1.2 due to fotm.

 

Hey alright, something we can agree on =) I loved my class pre 1.2. Now I just have a bad taste in my mouth.

 

On a side note. How's come snipers aren't getting any attention? A well geared sniper can get you to 30% health just as fast. As it stands now if I see one look my way no matter what I am doing, I'm gonna leave my target and try to close the distance fast cause you can't lock down a healer or anything if you dead. I'm guessing because there aren't near as many of them?

[iphobia]

Always funny when FOTM players try to defend their op class.

[Enexemander]

A true Darkness Assassin tank will beat a marauder 1v1. By "true", I mean one that's actually rolling in tank gear. It will take forever, though.

 

Snipers are supposed to be the counter to marauders, but at mid to high gear levels, they aren't. They simply don't live long enough to put the marauder down.

[xxdragonragexx]

People should just enjoy the FOTM class because there will be a new one by next month or 2. No amount of QQing will get the class nerfed faster because they are already scheduled to get nerfed.

[Darkammo]

Wait wait wait. Let me get this straight.

 

Pre 1.2 attacking a healer 1v1 lead to a stalemate and that was OP.

 

Post 1.2 attacking a marauder/sentinel leads to death and that's balanced and other classes are just QQing?

 

...

[Dasgruberg]

I lol'd.

 

If a class consistently beats another 1 vs. 1, then we're into the rock paper scissors balance model, and that's not a way to balance a game that allows for engaging world PvP. Further, I can't seem to think of a "paper" to a sentinel/marauder's "rock" right now. Are you really advocating that one class should be superior to all others in 1 vs. 1 fights? That doesn't seem right.

 

The issue isn't that people don't know how to play against sentinels/marauders. It's that sentinels/marauders are grossly overpowered.

 

The solution is not players of sentinel/marauder characters giving PvP lessons to everyone else. It's a balance hotfix. This needs to happen, and the sooner the better.

 

You cant have a themepark based mmo with queable pvp zones and world pvp and have it be balanced at the same time.

[Enexemander]

Well, here's the thing: Marauders do have a counter, but nobody plays them.

 

Tanks counter marauders (*hard*), but almost NO ONE rolls in PvP with tank gear. I think that's why Bioware hasn't nerfed marauders. They *want* people to use the tank gear (at least, they do in premade ranked games).

 

I would predict that nothing will be done with marauders until the premade ranked season starts.

 

Bioware will hold out hope that people will spec, play, and gear as a tank for premade ranked teams. If marauders are still dominant, then they'll get the nerf hammer.

 

I don't think it's going to happen before that, however.

[Balmuck]

Since so many people are crying oceans, I figured I'd save you the trouble of actually researching this and just give it up. If for no other reason that to shut the kiddies up.

 

Marauder and it's mirror have several very key, and very easy to exploit, weaknesses. Understand that knowing this is not going to save you if the circumstances are not right. If the dual wielder, as i'll refer to us, is smart then they'll be playing in a manner designed to minimize these weaknesses but it is impossible to eliminate them completely.

 

1. Never, EVER fill a Dual Wielder's Resolve.

 

This is because one of the most glaring weaknesses is our need to be in Melee range. CC of most any kind allows one to move outside this range, effectively negating our presence. This point is probably, more than anything, the Achilles heel of the Dual Wielder. It's also the hardest one to do correctly as lots of us have tamed the urge to instantly smack the CC break. This is even harder against a Carnage/Combat Dual Wielder due to the Camo talent we all take. How you avoid filling a Dual Wielder's resolve is simple: DO NOT CC UNTIL THEY ARE BELOW AT LEAST 30%. CC needs to be saved for the END of the fight, when we start popping the really heavy defensive cooldowns like Undying Rage. Stunning us through that will negate it.

 

2. Avoid 1 vs 1 fights

 

This is fairly hard, as most of us try to create 1 vs 1 situations. But remember, running isn't a *****-move. It's playing smart. If you escape a Dual Wielder, you've still won because then you can go get help. Or go hang out next to help, either way. Against a Carnage/Combat Dual Wielder, you're more or less up a creek in this department. It can still be done though, if you FOCUS on ESCAPING. This is about denying the Dual Wielder THEIR fight, you want to face them on your terms. Which, preferrably, includes some backup. If for no other reason than at least one of you will kill the guy.

 

3. NEVER KB as soon as the Marauder attacks you, unless you can position them in such a way as to knock them off a ledge or something

 

This one is pretty self-explanatory. A smart Dual Wielder will try to position themselves in a way that will cause your KB to be ineffectual. This is the ONE and ONLY scenario in which I would advocate CC'ing right off. You'll buy yourself JUST enough time to knock the Dual Wielder into the pit, or off of the bridge. If you don't think you can do it in time, or the Dual Wielder stupidly blows their CC break to avoid the incoming KB, then you need to save it. The reason is that if you waste it, most of us have learned by now to sit on Force Charge for when we get KB'd so that we can instantly re-engage. Also, if you DO manage to knock them into, say, the pit, then you need to MOVE AWAY FROM THAT SPOT so that the Dual Wielder can't just wait for Force Charge to come back up.

 

4. (If the DW is Ataru specc'ed, ignore this one) Move away from them/Interrupt when they start Ravage

 

Ravage is stupidly easy to spot, and the only hit that really hurts is the last one. If you can interrupt it, do so. If you can't, run away. Simple as that, and it will make them lost a VERY significant bit of damage.

 

5. (If Shii-Cho specc'ed and you DON'T do this, then you're stupid) Kite like a mofo

 

Do I even need to explain this one?

 

Other Important Notes: If your a PT/Vanguard or a Sniper/Gunslinger and you get blinded (Obsfucate/I forget the Sentinel version's name), ONLY use Tech attacks. Your abilities should be labeled in the book. Ranged and Melee attacks more or less all miss while obsfucated. If you happen to be a Dual Wielder and you're fighting another Dual Wielder, you need to blind them ASAP. The blind isn't terribly effective against any other classes.

 

Really, at the end of the day, it's all about keeping us outside Melee range and about never letting a Dual Wielder get you by yourself. This isn't that hard if you don't waste your CC or your KB.

 

To clear up any confusion about which ability is which, please refer to the list below for which ability is which and what it does.

 

Undying Rage/<Insert Sentinel Version>: This ability gives 99% damage reduction at the cost of 50% HP for 5 seconds. When it's popped, the Dual Wielder (Depending on faction) will either turn black with a red aura or black with a blue aura. They need to be INSTANTLY stunned upon using this and THIS is why it's so critical to NOT fill their resolve bar.

 

Cloak of Pain/<Insert Sentinel Verison>: This ability gives 20% damage reduction and inflicts a tiny amount of damage whenever the Dual Wielder is attacked. This can only happen 15 times MAX while the ability is up. The damage will be around 200 - 300 per tick making the maximum amount of damage that can be inflicted by it something to the tune of 4.5k. HOWEVER, this is ONLY if that person IS being attacked. The damage is 100% dependent upon someone attacking that person and it will ONLY affect the person who threw the attack. This will wrap the user in a red/blue aura depending on faction. It will look kinda like fire, but not NEARLY as distinct as Bloodthirst.

 

Saber Ward/<Insert Sentinel Version>: This ability gives a melee and ranged damage reduction of 50% and a Force and Tech damage reduction of 25%. This ability surrounds the user with an "bubble", either blue or red depending upon faction. This lasts for 12 seconds.

 

Saber Ward and Cloak Of Pain are almost always used in conjunction.

 

That about all I can think of.

 

 

This is idiotic, lol.

 

 

Let me see.

 

 

A. Don't use any abilities to fill up the resolve bar, aka, don't CC the guy. How does that work out? So, to counter you, I have to run? Is that is? To fight a Mara, I need to bring more then one person to fight you, because in reality, not only are you gonna smash my face, but me defending myself is going to only make it faster?

 

B. No 1v1? How do you do that? What happens when you're in a WZ and the other team has 3-4 Mara? If they're OP 1v1, what makes them any less effective in a group? Nothing? Yea, you're right... nothing. Actually, not only are they mega OP in small scale fights, they're basically the best group utility DPS class in the game. The speed buffs and damage buffs can't be rivaled by any other class..

 

C. Ravage, stupidly easy to spot? You're right, except if they're Carnage, it roots you on activation, IT CAN'T BE INTERRUPTED, and does like 6-10k damage in one channel? How do you do deal with that? Oh, you stun them, right? Well, guess not. You said not to white bar them, so at that point, mid way down their rotation, that one stun or knock back is going to white bar them and you're screwed after that... but, wait. What if they're already white barred from the previous engagement because in reality, no WZ is ever a 1v1 fight? Guess you get to sit there and eat all that Ravage damage to your face... nothing you can do about it.

 

D. So you finally got that Marauder down at about 20% HP? So guess what happens then? He dies? Naw, he actually pops his defensive cool downs, takes 43658437584738 damage and lives, because he has the best defensive cool downs in the game and basically, if he pops them at the right time, he can live longer at 10% HP then any other class going between 100% to 0? That's not OP or anything, right? Not only that but while those abilities are active, he can basically get healed fully since he takes no damage and... he keeps all his damage while taking none.

 

 

A Marauder, a good played Marauder has:

 

1. Best mobility out of any DPS in the game

2. Highest sustained damage in the game

3. Highest burst damage in the game, depending on the spec

4. Best defensive cool downs in the game, hands down, no other class comes close

5. As far as DPS go, best group utility in the game

6. Multiple ways to close the gap between itself and ranged

7. Highest amount of interrupts and stuns in the game

 

 

Simply, what goes around comes around. You scrubbies asked for this and now you're paying the price. In a month or two, when Bioware does another around of nerfs, you'll be hitting the levels of Melee Operatives and Sorcs.

[Ehlin]

They can't nerf us fast enough. This was really dumb on Biowares part.

[fungihoujo]

Well, here's the thing: Marauders do have a counter, but nobody plays them.

 

Tanks counter marauders (*hard*), but almost NO ONE rolls in PvP with tank gear. I think that's why Bioware hasn't nerfed marauders. They *want* people to use the tank gear (at least, they do in premade ranked games).

 

I would predict that nothing will be done with marauders until the premade ranked season starts.

 

Bioware will hold out hope that people will spec, play, and gear as a tank for premade ranked teams. If marauders are still dominant, then they'll get the nerf hammer.

 

I don't think it's going to happen before that, however.

 

Maybe a tank sin... but I have yet to face a powertech who could go toe to toe with my marauder in tank spec- if anything, pyrotech's the biggest threat because it can dish out some hard damage very fast and sometimes catch me off guard. A juggernaut can lock me down as a tank- but not beat me, and while it takes a bit longer, I'll get him.

 

 

1v1 there's nothing I fear as a marauder- with the exception of snipers, particularly if I have no cover- but even then they are situationally better, but not always so.

 

2v2, if I have a healer or tank backing me, I will rip up any combo except perhaps a good healer with a good tank- which will often become a stalemate as attacking the tank will mean letting the healer freecast, and attacking the healer will mean vastly reduced damage.

 

 

Even so- there's no point where I feel like I'm obsolete- which is not the case for every other class... in most cases, many classes feel obsolete all the time.

[xxdragonragexx]

They can't nerf us fast enough. This was really dumb on Biowares part.

 

I didn't want my marauder to be fotm also. Now I don't know what will happen to them after a month or so. I will either enjoy my marauder or play my shadow more since shadows are going to be safe of the nerf bat. My marauder may get nerfed to the bottom once I fully geared him so I don't see the point in maxing him out.

[Sraom]

A few counters to Sentinel/Marauder's abilities would be:

 

1) CC them, preferably mez them through their defensive CDs, preferably both rebuke and guarded by the force.

 

However...

This is extremely difficult to accomplish and almost only doable in a 8-man premade situation with very good communications. Doing this in a pug is a miracle.

 

2) When they start MS/ravaging, pop your dodge, saber ward, deflection, pacification or distraction. Save your these CDs for situations like this. If your "dodge" defensive CD lasts a good long time such as saber ward, pop it as soon as a Sentinel/Marauder gets on your face.

 

However...

Ironically Sentinels and Marauders have two of those; also the classes that have those abilities are strong classes of this patch except scoundrel and operatives. Also, then first two hits already hit hard and happen very fast. Popping it just for the third hit doesn't negate that much damage.

 

3) Root and slow. KB fills resolve up and should be done only when necessary.

 

However...

People who are able to do this are already strong classes. Best slow is a Guardian /Juggernaut get into the group and use freezing force, or a tank shadow/assassin chaining slow time/wither. Both are strong classes of this patch.

[Visue]

I just think it's funny that one of his tips is to not fight him 1v1...

[Monkeybusiness]

Marauders are like Tryndamere now, OP and many idiots play them

 

I can kill them on my sniper if he doesn't have 1K expertise stacked and isn't very bright.

 

Team fights aren't really fair due to marauders living longer then tanks.

 

Also targeting is awful in this game, it's still too clunky for me when i want to control 2 a 3 targets at once.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Monkeybusiness

[Anbokr]

The only thing OP about marauders right now is the 80% predation buff in Carnage (this will break rated warzones). People focus so much on the damage aspect of marauders (which is probably the most preventable damage in the game (dispel destroys annihilation bleeds, carnage is countered by tanks and gore awareness, rage is very gimmicky--one trick pony).

[xxdragonragexx]

The only thing OP about marauders right now is the 80% predation buff in Carnage (this will break rated warzones). People focus so much on the damage aspect of marauders (which is probably the most preventable damage in the game (dispel destroys annihilation bleeds, carnage is countered by tanks and gore awareness, rage is very gimmicky--one trick pony).

 

They always had that buff. It was just in annihilation before. What makes it so different now?

Edited April 16, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[CerberusDE]

So, we're going with "Oh some abilites got buffed..Nuke the WHOLE class bioware or ill unsub" o.0 well damn.