I think the problem is that it's a direct result of something they tried to improve, which means we are probably stuck with it for a while. There was something in the patch notes that said they did something so people wouldn't teleport when they are stunned or something. Seems like they wanted to make things less asynchronous and instead made it far worse.

How is this not getting more attention? Huttball is so broken now. People are teleporting like crazy on my screen a good deal of the time when they are knockbacked or use a vent.

To encourage you to gear up. All MMO's these days have stall tactics to keep you playing longer.

Is the same faction pvp working there? I went last night with two guildies and it wasn't working for us even though we weren't in the same group.

Well in the case pointed out by the OP, it was a player transfer of characters onto completely new servers. Difference is minute, but there.

There's a sticky at the top of the Commando forums that will help you out with PVE healing or did you want PVP tips?

I support the change as well. The gear disparity problem is terrible. Even with this change, damage has already been done and might not help significantly but I'll take whatever we can get.

Maybe in that sense you'll get more games Twor. Since no one gives a frack about what happens, as long as it happens.

I'm sorry about your server Twor. They should really do mergers.

From the quest terminal. She didn't play earlier so her daily wasn't locked out. The servers are up by the way.

According to a guildie, No Quarter now requires 6 games played. Doesn't matter if you win or lose. Weekly might be gone. So take heart, people who complained that weekly reward should have been more. You will have to deal with it no longer.

You know that twitching melee likes to do when attacking casters. You'd see a lot of that with every class if you open up full range 3D motion with an effectiveness that I think would be game breaking. It would be difficult to design LOS obstacles that would mitigate advantage of ranged classes. Interested if you have any actual design solutions for this issue that are more elaborate than "just make it." Without gravity constraints, creating effective choke points would be hard without constraining room sizes which then takes away from the point of having all that 3D range to begin with. Also might introduce the possibility for some abilities to be stronger or weaker depending on whether or not the player is in a zero gravity or gravity environment. Balancing nightmare. With all that taken into consideration, I'd much rather they add a full blown space combat section of the game. Feels like you read Ender's Game recently and liked that war game concept.

This warzone sounds terrible for SWTOR. As someone mentioned, deathmatch is a poor idea. Different classes have different levels of survivability by class design. Example: A marauder has a lot more survivability than a dps powertech. The effect of making it kill based is some classes, knowing they are lower on the survivability food chain, will groan at merely seeing the load screen. Sounds like the design would be extremely group composition sensitive. Also, do not like the idea of a PVE style boss to kill in a PVP setting. Balancing for that is also extremely difficult, and a nightmare for non-preform groups. Pugs don't get to pick their healer/dps/tank ratio. Sounds like Alterac Valley and Isle of Conquest from World of Warcraft, but rants on those battlegrounds are another story. A similar but much better design that is kind of like what you want can be found from Nintendo 3DS Kid Icarus Uprising's Light vs Dark mode. Each death lowers a team bar. When the bar hits zero, the person whose death caused the bar to deplete turns into a special character that the team is trying to kill. This also allows for a player to choose to kill themselves to take on that role on purpose. Penalty of death on the bar is weighted based on gear, (for SWTOR you could weight it on class/spec/gear to avoid previously mentioned class survivability disparity.) This design would avoid all of my complaints and keep the warzone PvP player centered instead of having NPC boss elements. The whole cinematic complaint is a non-issue. Just press spacebar like the start of Novare Coast. Not a big deal.

This thread has been an interesting read, and there's been a lot of good points from various sources. I should have reserved some space on the front page to quote some of the better points. You can tell who is a healer and a dps by the comments pretty easily. The main divide really boils down to what the death rate should be. Pre 1.2 the death rates were a lot lower, and healers could do more. The dynamics of warzones were heavy on logistics before. In war, lives are valuable and losing one was costly. You don't just throw endless numbers at stuff. Pre 1.2, transitioning from one objective target to a next was key. Sending the right number of people to the right zone because you could get caught up in long fights. Knowing when and how to disengage was also important. No one told you to sit on a healer for a full game and not kill him. For healers, their effect on the battlefield was apparent and pronounced. You could heal people, they would live. Similarly, a dps who could interrupt lock down a healer was important, was threatening, and was the difference from being able to push through a defense line. By changing how much heals could heal, some of that was lost. Timing and coordinating your cc's, kb's, and interrupts although important isn't vital post 1.2 because DPS can kill things with sheer burst rather than all that extra stuff that was critical before. Healers are marginalized, but can be important when the whole team pays attention and takes care of them. But, for pugs it's a lot of respawn and running back. But even for more organized teams, it's back to the common system of dispatching people back to respawn than dealing with disengaging and transitioning between objectives with more macro strategy. Show of force in power rather than in mind and coordination. Both designs are valid. One favors the heals and the other favors the dps. Dps and heals will never agree on this point because their goals are different. A dps wants kills. A healer wants to keep people alive. Their desires are exclusive. There is no satisfaction in healing if your target dies. There is no satisfaction for dps if they can't kill. But, the gameplay that favors the healer is not often seen because the healers are usually the minority population. The healer favored system still offers the dps the satisfaction of locking down a healer as a sense of accomplishment. But, it's not in the nature of most dpser to have that team mentality. So once again it rests on the shoulders of healers to bear the burden that there is an upper limit on what skill can do for your class without the aid and support of the rest of the team. Namely, your class has less depth being a reactive sort of play style to begin with, handicapped by the fact that it is what other people do to protect you and don't do to you offensively that enables you to do anything. I'd like to point out though that in the healer favor system, healers didn't stop you from doing damage. You just don't have the satisfaction of killing. In the dps favored system, dps stops the healers from doing their job completely. Not negating their healing, but taking another step further by eliminating their target, be it the healer itself or the healers target, and having more people run back more often. So the experience of healing from one system to the latter is extremely disheartening.

Wait wait wait. Let me get this straight. Pre 1.2 attacking a healer 1v1 lead to a stalemate and that was OP. Post 1.2 attacking a marauder/sentinel leads to death and that's balanced and other classes are just QQing? ...

I want to thank the OP for appreciating how healing worked pre 1.2! It's always warming to see the DPS support how it used to be. It's a game design decision. There was a long thread before that I started discussing this. The healing experience is different now, and the gameplay experience just isn't as fun for a healer anymore. It's now a lot like World of Warcraft. People hate comparing the two MMO's, but honestly that's the direction they went. Sure, you can do amazing things if you have a premade trained to defend you and work with you. But, that's the key difference and people who choose healing as their main know the difference, like night and day, from being independent and feeling like contributing compared to knowing that it takes x y and z from other people to be able to outbound heal well. From the healers who say not much has changed, if you ask them the specifics of the gameplay experience and how people are dying, they usually have to stop and admit that "Yes, people are dying more. But, they don't expect as much from me anymore." The responsibility of DPS having to work together to kill a healer has been shifted onto the healers who need to convince their team they need to take care of them.

I see the issue. If you look at the damage and opposing team make up, their team had the sentinels. Those are the 2, 200k dps, and a good smuggler of some sort. Maybe that one that drops that aoe ground damage that defends a door like OP craziness. Enemy sentinels probably focus fired and farmed all of them. 2 of his dps were guardians, you can tell by the protection, which evidently amounted for little. Notice how he managed to have zero deaths, but look at his team's deaths. He was only able to keep himself up. Healers aren't the game changer anymore. It's the DPS. People are like oh that's how it's supposed to be. I disagree. It's a game design decision, and healers are once again the abused minority. You can't PVE style heal in PVP anymore. Pre 1.2 good heals could help a pug deal with a preform, which seems to be the case here. Wouldn't help your killing power, but it could help you accomplish objectives. Now you get dying cause dps were throwing a fit they couldn't 1v1 a healer.

True, but not because we were fortresses. Depended on your class. As someone said the Commando was the turret heals. Sages had to do more dancing. It was the implications of what having less stress on dealing with one person meant. It meant a healer could be responsible for healing much more than just himself. A healer had the role of being able to heal like you do in PVE ops in a PVP setting. Coupled with the fact that tanks were allowed to guard in PVP settings, it felt like that was the experience BW was going for. The mentality wasn't how do I keep myself alive. It was how do I keep myself alive and those other 3 people. Since a lot of people are adverse to the idea of healers not being able to be killed 1 v 1 since DPS is conditioned to believe heals should be an easy kill, I'm willing to settle for making tanks unkillable and bestowing that unkillable love onto heals with guard.

Let's suppose for a second that of those 3-4 people that we were tanking consisted of these 2 good dpsers that can kill me. What's stopping them from being smart and using cc and knockbacks to seperate us and kill one of us, which they would have and could have done pre 1.2. Not every 3-4 group could be dealt with by a tank and I. First need a well geared tank. Second need a 3-4 group that didn't interrupt or cc right. Quite common. Third, wouldn't hurt if half of that group kept trying to cap before killing one of us. You know you've seen it. The only reason why healers got away with God mode was cause people didn't work together well enough. The tables were flipped and now it's like well you healers deal with figuring out the whole teamwork thing. We just want to faceroll. DPS think it's broken that healers were hard to kill. But why? Was it impossible to win when the healer wouldn't die? Not necessarily. It was frustrating to not be able to solo kill something but killing isn't the objective of the warzone. There is no deathmatch warzone in which you win by having the most kills. Having a strong healer on your opponents team that you couldn't kill didn't mean you'd lose. In a void star, you could not kill a single person and cap a door with baiting them off the door and ccing. Or transitioning from one side to antoher with slows and again ccs. In civil war, if you capped one of the side nodes before the other team, and had mid contested the whole game. Wouldn't require you to kill a single person against these god mode heals, and you'd still win the game. In huttball, you could not kill a single person and get the ball reset more often and outplay in maneuvering. In no instance is it impossible to deal with the favored heal team. DPS has just expect to be able to kill everything in 1v1. They got a taste of the healing experience, and said it was "frustrating" cause they couldn't do their expected job of killing. They forget that there's also interrupting and ccing and working together. All that stuff you expect your healers to do, but woe is you if the game decided hey the dps should do it.

Pre 1.2 because of the way getting the Immortal announcement worked was not dying and getting 8 or 9 medals without dying. It's something dps and tanks get quite easily. As a commando healer, it was quite an achievement on figure out that it was even possible. Civil War was where I managed to be able to get it because the defense medals helped push you over. The medals I got I think were.... 2.5k heal, 5k heal, 1k defense, 3k defense, 10 kills, 25 kills, Killing Blow, 75k healing, 300k healing, 75k damage done. Post 1.2 don't think healers will have the freedom to goof around to pursue such extra funsies. You'd be happy to if you got "You are Immortal" announcement. That's actually the point of those announcements.

As I said, the commando ammo regen change was needed. There wasn't a real point to ammo till the change. It was the expertise change that gave more to damage to dps and less to heals that probably broke the camel's back. I'm mostly upset about why DPS feels justified that it should be like this. Instead of the focus being on the healers. The focus is on the DPS. Healers are out. Marauders and powertechs are in. They just flipped the priority of who should be killed but in a fashion that causes more people to spend more time waiting to respawn. People also undervalued cc and knockbacks on top of interrupts which I didn't go into detail about. You didn't have to kill that healer to cap that civil war node that you spent half a game attacking. You could've been fancy with your cc. Why were you attacking a healer for half a game by yourself in the first place if you knew they were hard to kill 1 v 1.

Oh that paragraph was about pre 1.2. That paragraph was under the "Then Came 1.2" heading so skimming can see it being misleading. The tank dies now. In fact if the tank is too close, one marauder can end up killing one of us cause taking some extra aoe damage. That's kind of the tank heal combo fault I suppose if they are too close like that but you need a 15m distance between and tanks are melee classes.

But that's the thing. It was a different play style. You needed two good dps to work together. That's a team effort. People tell the healers that, "Oh pvp is a team effort. You are supposed to need people to help you." That IS my point. When it was a team effort for dps to do their jobs, "NOT WORKING AS INTENDED. IT'S FRUSTRATING." For the DPS, instead of the healers. That was the big difference with this MMO. The healers were given more independence. 1 v 1 if a healer can stalemate and a dps can't kill them. How is that unfair? That sounds balanced. I can't kill you and you can't kill me until I screw up judgement on how to manage my cooldowns so something is up when your cooldowns are up. It also means I can heal other people well if I can stalemate a dps and two good dps are required to kill me. There was a lot of coordination in killing healers. Felt like strategy and logistical management of the battlefield. It's frustrating being given a role and not being able to do it. But, as a dps you didn't need someone to hold your hand to kill another dps 1 v 1 did you? You're asking healers to need other people to do their main function. Heal other people. It's frustrating to die over and over again because you can't heal yourself when you're supposed to be able to heal. It's frustrating to be a tank to guard someone who needs you and can't necessarily keep you alive reliably. Why tank for someone like that? Why tank at all, just go dps. That's what one of my friends wants to do. He wants to be a fancy dps, but since he has BM tank gear and does same amount of damage as his offset DPS gear, he stays tanking and is bitter that BW doesn't let him trade for DPS.

Response to Immense Feedback There has been a lot of good feedback, and I've summarized the issue in a more concise form. The original post follows below at "Introduction." The main divide really boils down to what the death rate should be. Pre 1.2 the death rates were a lot lower, and healers could do more. The dynamics of warzones were heavy on logistics before. In war, lives are valuable and losing one was costly. You don't just throw endless numbers at stuff. Pre 1.2, transitioning from one objective target to a next was key, sending the right number of people to the right zone because you could get caught up in long fights. Knowing when and how to disengage was also important. No one told you to sit on a healer for a full game with the net result of not killing him. For healers, their effect on the battlefield was apparent and pronounced. You could heal people, they would live. Similarly, a dps who could interrupt lock down a healer was important, was threatening, and was the difference from being able to push through a defense line. By changing how much heals could heal, some of that was lost. Timing and coordinating your cc's, kb's, and interrupts although important isn't vital post 1.2 because DPS can kill things with sheer burst rather than all that extra stuff that was critical before. Healers are marginalized, but can be important when the whole team pays attention and takes care of them. But, for pugs it's a lot of respawn and running back. But even for more organized teams, it's back to the common system of dispatching people back to respawn than dealing with disengaging and transitioning between objectives with more macro strategy. Show of force in power rather than in mind and coordination. Both designs are valid. One favors the heals and the other favors the dps. Dps and heals will never agree on this point because their goals are different. A dps wants kills. A healer wants to keep people alive. Their desires are exclusive. There is no satisfaction in healing if your target dies. There is no satisfaction for dps if they can't kill. But, the gameplay that favors the healer is not often seen because the healers are usually the minority population. The healer favored system still offers the dps the satisfaction of locking down a healer as a sense of accomplishment. But, it's not in the nature of most dpsers to have that team mentality. So once again it rests on the shoulders of healers to bear the burden that there is an upper limit on what skill can do for your class without the aid and support of the rest of the team. Namely, your healing role has less depth being a reactive sort of play style to begin with, handicapped by the fact that it is what other people do to protect you and don't do to you offensively that enables you to do anything. I'd like to point out though that in the healer favor system, healers didn't stop you from doing damage. You just don't have the satisfaction of killing. In the dps favored system, dps stops the healers from doing their job completely. Not negating their healing, but taking another step further by eliminating their target, be it the healer itself or the healers target. This system favors people spending more time waiting for respawn rather than alive and doing stuff. So the experience of healing from one system to the latter is extremely disheartening. Introduction There are a lot of threads arguing for and against the changes to healing. The healers are obviously up in arms and upset, where as the dps is cheering as they are draped in the blood of said healers. None of what I've seen so far really explains why healers are upset in a way that makes non-healers understand. This thread hopefully will shed more constructive light on that by a telling of a long story from a healer's perspective. I encourage more healers to write about their gameplay experience as I am about to in this long thread. "The nature of how pvp healing works has been changed. It's ruined," is something I've told people. The responses from healers were sympathy and consensus that this statement was true. Some DPS respond unfavorably with "You are exaggerating and over generalizing", "Get over it, you were imbalanced and now have to get used to how it should be", and "Healers shouldn't be able to be that unbeatable." But, the statement is true and this long story will explain why. Starting Out as a Healer in TOR So some background. I play a Republic Commando, level 50 obviously, in full Battlemaster Gear, valor rank 75. I slacked off after completing my gear. I did not warzone much until I hit level 50 so I had a long and terrible valor rank grind around the time when the Ilum fiasco reported by Kotaku occurred. I enjoy healing, played as a healer for most of my long World of Warcraft career. But, what captivated me with The Old Republic was how the PvP was vastly different for healers. I went with very little and dated gear and stepped fresh into warzones and found out to my surprise that tanks can tank in PvP. It was like what?! Someone can actually guard and defend me? That's crazy. That's amazing. Someone's job is to be there for me, and watch my back. That was so refreshing that I immediately loved doing warzones. Healers felt appreciated. Tanks would ask at the start of warzones who was a heal so they could guard you. Someone actually cared. Gone were the days (well mostly gone) were people would complain that there aren't any healers cause they are dying when you were in fact there healing your butt off. If your main is a healer, you know how disheartening it is for someone to make those complaints and not be recognized. In TOR, people noticed. As a commando healer, I soon also quickly found out that I was amazing even without gear. Sure, I was squishy but it felt like I could still do stuff. Right away, I had imperials recognizing that I was a great healer because I did a lot of things healers should do but neglect to. I would line of sight often, using hammer shot to heal when I moved, cc'd every cd on appropriate targets, help dps when I could, even knock back. Sweet baby jesus this is amazing. It's active and engaging with a lot of stuff to do and I excel at all of it. Then my gear slowly, and I mean slowly improved. As I said, most MMO's don't show appreciation to their healers. So although the community was warm and welcoming to my heals, the game surely was not. Ilum and warzones did not originally give kill credit for healing. You had to stop and tag stuff for killing. On my server, there were a lot more imps than rep in Ilum the majority of the time so stopping to tag targets was an insane waste of time when so many people needed heals and they need it now. Stopping meant death against the Imp zerg. Gearing from scratch, the medal and valor system was brutal on healers. I could earn very few medals. 2.5k heal that even a dps could earn. A killing blow if I was lucky. 75k healing sure. Anything past that not guaranteed. While other people earned 6 medals easy. But, the community appreciated healers. People would MVP vote healers and you'd feel the love. The change in the medal system and giving healers kill credit through healing finally gave healers game recognition for their deeds. Game was now giving credit, and healer valor gain doubled, maybe even tripled, making it way easier for healers to gear when they used to gear half as fast with the old system. I was past that already, but I was happy for new healers who wouldn't have to go through the horrible grind I did. Then Came 1.2 Then came 1.2. I heard rumors that it was going to suck. Brushed it off as over exaggeration and was excited about a lot of the other features. The commando nerfs looked harsh, but I was like I'm going to get through this. I didn't put points in med zone reactive shield and was unkillable as is so I'll be fine. Or so I thought. The damage buffs on dps and the med pack nerf came as a tidal wave against us. Compounded from the fact that Imperial 4 man groups have a lot better gear on average versus my servers Rep groups. I'm not exaggerating on the gear difference. I recognize the same Imps and guilds and groups on my server. It's kind of nice having that tight community. But that's digressing. Another strange anomaly of our server is our side doesn't have a lot of great dpsers. Empire had the DPS, we had tons of tanks and heals. It is not abnormal on our server to have 4 healers in a warzone. I've seen a game with 6. This lead to disaster in 1.2 as heavy organized 4 man Imp groups decimated a weird dynamic that used to play out on our server of having long games where Rep side couldn't kill, but wouldn't die. Now it was Rep side just dies. Weird composition of my server warzones aside. The amount of dps that geared marauders and powertechs were doing was crazy. People were falling over left and right, and heals meant nothing. It went from, "Yeah, I can save you" to give everything you got to delay death slightly. Against two geared dps going down on one person, person is just dead. Nothing you can do about it. As a commando I didn't need a tank pre 1.2. I could tank it myself. Throw me a good, geared tank and we were a two man god team. Me and my tank against the world. Couldn't necessarily kill anything, but we wouldn't die. That was the thing though, we couldn't necessarily kill anything. People lived for a long time. To kill a healer required a lot of coordination and focus fire. 1v1 as a healer was easily a stalemate. A good dps could lock you down so outbound healing to other people was hard to do, but couldn't necessarily kill you. Your health might spike and stuff, but if you managed your CDs you knew you could make it out if you were good enough. Two dps should be able to kill me but a lot of dps don't interrupt. That was their biggest problem. They never interrupted the right thing or at all. Medical probe should've been their target, not advanced. That goes on cooldown anyways after using it unless I have supercharge up. Wait for reactive shield to pass, lock out medical probe after the adv probe I used to make it cheaper, then burst with your adrenals and relic. How do you think I'm keeping up with tanking a bunch of you, managing my wz expertise adrenal and relics carefully. Never had to juke heals much cause people just don't interrupt in the first place and there's so many stuns, kb etc, juking isn't always worth it. But, then we were told it wasn't ever supposed to be that way. We weren't meant to be able to last that long. Granted some of commando nerfs I'm okay with. We didn't need to manage ammo, but since I played with a lot of movement and hammer shot to begin with, the ammo management change didn't phase me much at all. I'm glad that was added. Survivability was killed though. Went from super hard to kill to yeah, they can kill me. Consequently, can't save other people because I have to worry a lot more about myself. It took myself and my sage friend to heal her to keep her alive from one marauder. That's two healers healing to stop one dps. My heart goes out to those sages. They can't take care of themselves as easily as before, and before there was a lot of "keep running, they gonna kill you!" Her deaths I would say doubled each warzone. She comes out of the spawn and gets sent quickly back. Output wise, I can get the same numbers. I can still push past 300k healing in a warzone. Think I did 500k one warzone tonight. But, a lot more people die cause the damage is insane. My tanks die. I can't save them if they guard me like I used to because taking care of myself takes so much more, can't heal other people as well. Sometimes I'm left to free heal and still can't save people. It didn't make things harder. It just made things more depressing. Pre 1.2, it was hard to keep everyone up alive. But, by jolly, it could be done! Pre 1.2 healers felt like they had a huge impact. They did. They could do so much. People would rage about focus firing healers. People made a fit about marking healers. Healers would point out in their ops that they must be marked cause they are being focus fired hard and dying now as a badge of honor and frustration at the same time. Some void stars never got passed the first door both rounds. A healer was important. Vastly important. You want to kill someone, you can't ignore that healer. Someone has to lock it down or you all have to go and kill it. Post 1.2 dealing with the healer is optional. Can just bypass the healer, kill the guy directly. Or just outright dispatch the healer like it was nothing. That's why healing has fundamentally changed. That's why healers are all upset. Feels like a bait and switch. From a game where we were super important, then changed to a minor nuisance that is optional to deal with. We lost our independence, our time in the lime light. Back to other MMO styles where we require other people to hold our hands, peel things off of us constantly. Sure, might make DPS a lot happier. Sure, it might be in line with intended balance. But, it doesn't feel good to be reliant and dependent again. Doesn't feel good to not be the center of attention in warzone dynamics. Doesn't feel good to be treated same way other MMO's have treated us. The proof of the change is a new trend I've noticed in mvp votes. Gone is the emphasis to give healers votes instead of the person with the most medals. Votes are now given to the person with that crazy damage doing 600k a warzone. DPS is the one that is important. People don't remember you helping them as much cause they are dying which was a huge change from holy heals batman, I didn't die that whole warzone. That's amazing, Mr. Healer. No more Healer is immortal. That was an amazing day when I got immortal as a commando healer. I was so happy. Now I'll be happy to get unbeatable. Like every other MMO I was losing a lot of games. Then I found a 600k damage person to carry me. I could heal again while he did his thing and killed people. People would focus fire on him to kill that crazy Vanguard dpsing hard. I wouldn't be able to save him even though I could free heal, and spent the time reminiscing about the days I used to be that guy that people focus fired, I used to matter. Healers hoped that it wasn't a flavor of a month sort of deal. We'll all get used to the change back to mainstream style of DPS being king, but a long time ago, in a patch far far away, there was an MMO were healers were appreciated, a promise land of you being a key piece that others were dependent on and not the other way around. The Old Republic wanted to make players feel more heroic. You made healers feel heroic till you changed your minds about it. What other MMO let a healer heal himself and take care of 7 other people like a baus. It didn't have to be unintentional. It could have been a game design decision, and it's depressing that it was never intended. BW could have stood by that stance. Healers were OP. Now DPS is OP. Why do healers have to work for it now, and certain DPS classes don't have to work for it? Nothing's ever completely balanced. I put those points into med zone to give me that extra 20% healing to myself I didn't have before. Tanked two dps at once as I watched people die around me and noticed that these bad dps didn't interrupt as usual. Yeah, I'm living again, but it's not me. They are just bad. It's not me being awesome. They are just bad. Awesome was the low death rate of warzones of old. *sigh*

I'm assuming they had either technical difficulties with the rated warzone matching or didn't think it would work well to be released without cross server warzones due to population problems for some servers. It's painful enough being in a full pug versus a group of four. Imagine fighting a full premade of 8. Scary. The credit rewards being removed I don't have a problem with. If you want to earn credits, do something else. Don't remember WoW giving credits for battlegrounds, and no one had an issue. I didn't really understand why they threw credits at us in the first place since pvp doesn't reduce durability. Costs nothing for you to do, and I don't warzone to make credits The nerfed commendation rewards is probably a move to stall players from gearing up too quickly. similar to why you get a lockout from PVE operations. The gear was intended to be released with rated warzones, so instead of saying nevermind guys, you don't get the gear or the warzones they at least let you get the gear. Looks like it's going to be a long grind, but I'm okay with that. I wish servers would be merged. Would address a lot of problems.