Feedback request from James Ohlen - Open World PvP

[livinlife]

plz not guild pvp that restricts the smaller guilds and will just give a few elitist more to troll about on trade chat. guild pvp, wat does that mean for the ppl like me who don't like to b in a guild but like to pvp

[hypnosys]

He's a very busy man and has minions who can handle that task (ie, me).

 

Very busy failing this game?

Edited April 15, 2012 by hypnosys

[Kheldarr]

You can start with this Mr. Ohlen - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=234156

 

I agree. I remember from my time in the marine corps, the only time I really enjoyed simulated drills was when we were in a prefab town. Having structures, like the ones on balmorra, that have a ruined look to them would add some additional "atmosphere"

[krmnsty]

Some things I would like to see on the open world pvp discussion -

[i know some of these ideas require much more thought and explaining than I provide, along with many unforseeable consequences/benefits, but the general idea is the gist of it]

 

-Guilds can choose in some way whether to be at war, or allied with eachother, but you can only go to war with a guild that is the opposite of your faction.

 

-When Players are defeated in open world pvp, that player gets an optional window pop-up to place a bounty on the player(s) that killed them. Bounty Hunters are then able to visit a terminal and collect the bounty in the case of a successful elimination. [Excludes WZ's]

 

-Removal of a Players ability to leave open world pvp through a "WarZone" Invitation.

 

-A reward system for multiple kills in open world pvp

[TryonPayne]

I would love to see random world events where we have to attack a city or defend it from invaders. I am not sure how everyone else feels but it would atl east make things more interesting around the galaxy! I would also like to see getting valor from open world pvp or atleast some sort of insentive to do it

[exhya]

you can't make a Big open pvp world with 150 man fighting against 150 other man look at ilum it's way to lagy for most of the players the fps there is just terrible. you need to find a way to make the open pvp world " restricted".

ilum wasn't a bad idea but the unbalance of rep/imp pop just killed it ( lags killed it also ).

[KrackenOne]

Ditch 1.2

[Dragonslair]

Implement it all seriously.

 

1. To shut up the whiners and crybabies

2. The more the merrier

3. I'm bored

[LillyWhiteS]

Implement it all seriously.

 

1. To shut up the whiners and crybabies

2. The more the merrier

3. I'm bored

 

Some people are only trying to help, trying to help the game not become f2p in the nearish future because it failed, whiners and crybabies isn't fair...

 

The game is losing subs left right and centre, PvPers are trying to give ideas that will help stop that, but we can only go so far, it's up to the devs whether they listen to the 'paying' customers or not..

 

I have recently unsubbed myself, few friends I played the game with left a while ago because of the PvP situation, same reason I eventually did, but the fact I still post means I haven't fully given up on the game and hope it will be fixed.

 

Sure the nerfs to my Combat Medic played a part, but it was the lack of big scale fort type PvP, proper objectives, PvP that lasted hours like in Warhammer, that is the main reason why I unsubbed, the nerfs were just the final straw.

 

I knew the combination of increased damage through multiple sources, expertise mainly and the huge healing nerfs, was taking it too far, even said it a few times hoping BW would see it, ultimately the PTS proved to be bug testing and no more like others said...

 

The expertise changes were enough on it's own, increased damage already meant more healing needed which would effect resources like ammo/heat and survivability going down.

 

The moderation of constructive posts doesn't help it has to be said, seen a few good PvP related threads trying to save the game get closed/deleted before I got the chance to post in them.

 

Edit* I think Bioware didn't realise PvP would be such an important part of the game to so many people, it has ultimately put them on the back foot and behind the 8 ball as they didn't put enough effort and or resources into this part of the game.

Edited April 16, 2012 by LillyWhiteS

[ALDrinkwater]

What i'd like to see is a boss spawned in the middle of the map, one that drops say rare crystals or schematics for instance, and make it a long spawn time, lets say 12 hours and make it a pvp boss, something each faction could fight over.

[Daiyukie]

Not having the game focus on PvP and endgame content was a failure of an idea to start with. Multiplayer is what gives a game replayability, because just like a single-player game, once you've done it, you've done it. You know the story, you know the bosses, you know the game. You can do it on a harder difficulty/with a different setup/whatever, but only the hardcore fans will replay a game twice or more.

 

Insert multiplayer and you've got your replay value, if the multiplayer is interesting. Look at an *MMO*, and not focusing on the multiplayer aspect is just.... wow. Endgame content is not interesting (co-op multiplayer) and PvP is just borked (competitive multiplayer) so the game gets old fast. I hoped that wouldn't be the case, but we can clearly see where the focus was since the writing and story and cutscenes, weird glitches notwithstanding, are frickin' awesome, I think we can all agree.

 

Problem is, once you've done it.. you've done it and the pathetic Warzones aren't going to keep people coming back.

[Shockazilla]

I think I would like PvPvE.

 

It would be nice to pilot vehicles and have players man the weapons. 3D aerial (in gravity well) and 3D (0-gravity) combat in vehicles would be great. Players that could later purchase vehicles and vechicle augments, computer/targeting systems, would be so amazing. For space combat, having 1 man, 2 man vehicles, and also larger craft, where players mount the weapons will be incredible.

 

For ground warfare, it would be great to use mechanized infrantry, tanks, anti-grav tanks, hovercraft, etc, and man cannons/turrets, etc.

 

Also, a Zero-G WZ for players would be totally awesome. We could be prepelled by various devices that give us a boost.

[geezy]

Okay heres my oppinion.

 

1 - Firstly incentivise Open-world PvP using merc comms etc

2 - Give areas where Open-World will happen naturally ( ala Tatooine Event - Brilliant )

3 - Turn Ilum into a Wintergrasp type Area. ( Use same idea of limiting numbers from each faction and timer based ). Make nice siege vehicles for it. multiple character types. P.S Im sure thats a lot of work and will obviously be the last thing to be implemented on this mini list.

4 - Make nice looking PvP gear =P

 

Eventually expand on space combat and eveeeeentually combine space with another aspect of the game ( flashpoint would be easiest ).

 

Thanks for reading =)

[geezy]

Also, a Zero-G WZ for players would be totally awesome. We could be prepelled by various devices that give us a boost.

 

^^ imagine the coolness +1

[necam]

PVPVE balance.

 

All of them are a good idea, but PVP and PVE balance is horrible after 1.2.

 

PVP:

before it wasn't balanced too bad, a group of 4 friends and I all hit 50(all fairly good at MMO, WoW, PWI, EQ, Star Trek etc). We started PVP and got destroyed almost ever match because we went against 1 Rep and 1 Imp teams that were always on and always full BM. But we still leveled our Valor and got War Zone/Merc points. It didn't take to long to get Cent, Champ, and we were approaching BM in what I felt wasn't too fast or too slow.

 

Now the top 2 factions are in BM or tier 4, they took away Cent/Champ and Merc points (which i was saving and had 1000, spent 3000 war zone on and lost 2000 due to this, should refund at same cost!) Now BM you don't have to have 60 valor to get, but 1500 WZ on average. Not bad we thought, until we realized you took away 30kill / 150 kill dailes. Which was our biggest part of getting gear since we PVP vs top 2 factions and lose 95% of the time. Then found out the Daily/Weekly for 3/9 wins is the same reward, really? 3x the wins and you get 99 WZ for both? On top of that WZ have been cut in half for each match. Use to get more if you won, and some if you lost, averaged about 50-100 every match, now I have played 10 minute matchs, lost, had 10+ kills, 5 medals, and got 0 valor 0 WZ, 0 EXP, and 0 Credits. Really ? I got my butt kicked for 10 minutes for a reward of 0.

 

The top 2 factions 1 rep, 1 imp destroy everyone even more now because they are in 1/2 or full tier 4. rep are cool and just win, aren't rude, but Imp just score 5 on Hut and then sit at your spawn and farm kill for 10+_ minutes. Our whole faction has switched servers, and I know at least 15+ people that have stopped playing because its no fun to PVP at all.

 

PVE,

You need PVP gear to get PVE. BT HM was almost finished by friends and I before patch. Now first 3 bosses cant be interrupted. We can't kill third boss now, where we use to kill all 3 and got final jedi down to 10k.

 

So, PVP is now impossible unless you join top faction. Top factions are owning and continuing like nothings changed, mid/lower factions are getting nothing and same thing in PVE now.

 

Really love SWTOR, but atm I don't even want to play until PVP balance is fixed. I don't care about getting owned for 2 hours as long as its fun. 4 vs 1 and can barely win and they just farm kill you for 15 minutes is not fun, especially with 0 rewards.

 

Fixes,

1. Put the 30/150 kills back into game.

2. Weeklies should be worth 3x the reward as dailies.

3. Allow same faction PVP on all maps.

4. Increase the WZ for each match.

 

This will let players get gear, and then can do PVE as well. Was enjoyable to see gear improving and get better in PVP and then try PVE and start killing bosses as gear improved.

[WhiteAvenger]

If you want to bolster open world pvp. Have a shuttle port in the Pvp Section on the Orbital Station.

 

No one wants to travel from world to world to see if Open PVP is rocking in that area.

 

Open world should only be available in the End worlds. No one really cares for it pre-50 in open world. As long as you have Pre-50 Battlegrounds.

 

I would love to see more things like Hutt Ball. The best battleground in WAR-Hammer was the Lava area where we would fight over the ball and try to keep it. It was fun knocking people in the Lava.

 

Finally please address - the length of time the Characters die in PVP. Pre-1.2 was pretty good - Post 1.2 is horrible. You die in like 10 seconds unless you have a healer healing you. I have a Sent and a Vanguard and they both die too fast. Eventually I plan to have all four major classes - just because I enjoy the class story lines.

 

Finally - I really hate PVP vs Environment Gear. Gear should be gear should be gear. I want to be able to do both without the need of having two sets.

 

Guild vs Guild would be fun too but I would like it to cross over all servers for Reb vs Imp Guilds- It would be great to be able defend our guild houses. However, you make guild vs guild more viable if you had ONE set of equipment not pvp or pve. We understand your trying to prolong the toys we will want to have at pre-50 - but there should be ways to do both.

 

You would need to defeat 3 Imp guild houses before you can raid Imperial world X. This would be one way to incorporate both. No other game has this - it would be a first.

 

Finally, what would really be cool, the video that starts before the match begins have highlights of certain guild players from each guild based on their pvp compentancy. Now that would be a carrot.

 

 

When are we having Space battles pvp?

 

 

Thanks

[Gonewild]

I vote for Raw, open PVP. Mark me, please.

[Boonfiftytwo]

Well, where do I start on this? There is so much to fix in my opinion.

 

Nowadays, I only pvp. I am not a "hardcore" pvp player. ie. I do not play day in day out, 8 hour stints, rolling only with premades, doing gear checks before accepting into the premade etc etc adnauseum elitist rubbish.

 

What I would like to see is a system where, as a casual gamer, I can jump in play 5 or 6 WZ (which is still a few solid hours) and finish off my daily so I can get a slight reward and progress towards the better gear. Since 1.2 patch, I have basically completed a daily every 2 days. Something is inherently wrong here, a daily should be achievable every day even for the casual gamers. Currently it is not. Secondly while I am on dailies, lets talk weeklies. Why are the rewards identical for the weekly and daily quests? You have to be kidding right? Its 3 times harder (actually worse than this but a direct co-relation of 3x) so it should yield at least 3xbetter reward. This would be logical, and fair in an effort vs reward scenario. Think of it this way. If I now have to play 21 games to win 3 matches (yes its really this bad on some servers - swiftsure for example) then actually to complete a weekly I have to play 63 games to win 9. Do you see how the rewards cant possibly be linear? In contrast, the opposing faction who is steam rolling us, completed them all in the first day, got their reward, handed it in, upgraded their gear and now steam roll us even harder. The gear gap widens - perhaps change the daily/weekly to participate in 3/9 matches, rather than win! This would encourage people to stay to the end (at least for the first few matches after a daily resets).

 

Making PvP entirely reliant on gear is a recipe for disaster. This isn't the first time that BW have made a change which saw a rampant jump in valor for some factions, allowing certain teams to race ahead into BM gear. Obviously nothing was learnt from this first mistake (Illum) and has been replicated with patch 1.2 and the commendations.

 

Allow me to hand in all the old commendations for the new ones. I currently have all this earnt currency that is just useless. Even if you made it a 2 for 1 scenario, its better than a total loss. This also will close down the gear gap but only slightly. It was a true insult having earned almost a full set of champion, to log in and have to replace it all with credit bought recruit gear. This act alone near on doubled my expertise, and I'm buying what should be lower ranked gear! You could have updated the stats on the existing gear to match the updated system, instead of just robbing people of all their hard work!

 

But all those things mentioned above are just putting lipstick on a pig.

PvP needs serious rework. Any situation where someone in top end gear 2 shots a new to 50 player should be ringing alarm bells. The 2 can be of identical skill, in fact have both players try each one out (an undergeared vs an overgeared) and then have them switch so you can prove its not based on skill at all. The overgeared player will win, hands down, every time. Ding ding ding ding. That's the alarm bells, you're ignoring them again.

 

See your first mistake was making a PvE game, and then building PvP as an afterthought.

This essentially makes your game gear based. Because to get around flashpoints being harder and requiring more damage output, you simply improve the gear. Simple right, and understandable. But this does not translate to PvP. The best scenario is design your PvP first, without making it totally reliant on gear. Then adjust your PvE to suit. Static mobs are by far easier to tweak to suit the game, than trying to tweak gear and rewards to suit pvp.

 

What I would like to see is an open world style PvP system, similar to that of Dark Age of Camelot.

Whilst this left alot to desire, it was a vast improvement on the current system as it stands.

The DAoC open world pvp system, was a vast area of take and hold points (Small fortifications).

Each taken point made the final fortress (Relic Keep) location easier to attack by reducing the number of non-player guards surrounding it. Attempting to face a fully defended Relic Keep (ie controlling no minor forts) was outright suicide, although possible with large enough attacking forces - and I'm talking crazy large 200+ people.

 

Warnings were displayed when forts and keeps were attacked. Controlling the relic contained in the keep gave faction wide bonuses to stats/experience/cash gains etc.

 

This encouraged spread out PvP. It also encouraged strategy, sometimes feigning small forces at a keep to drag your enemy defenders away and leave another more needed fort vulnerable. It also meant great, large scale co-ordination, and required that some crafters build war machines, and then take the responsibility of transporting them out to battle and operating them. This added depth, made crafting more relevant, and added a good amount of co-ordination to achieve successful attacks. Allow Guilds to create alliances, this makes for chat between allied guilds possible. Even perhaps allow cross faction alliances - no reason a dark aligned republic team couldnt turn traitor and ally with an empire guild. Do this often and long enough and you are switched to a different faction - again adding depth to the game.

 

These world events are too annoying for casual players, and I personally wouldnt even bother. If I know that the PvP world location is always open, that's where I'm going to be. Make it large enough that PvP will not be spank fests at all times. Spies, and intel are very important in this kind of environment. Again, more depth. Add, or move these little events out to the pvp open world location so that it encourages conflict areas but these are minor events, only to encourage people out to learn the world and see what the pvp is like out there.

 

Add mobs out there, and roaming world bosses, again this encourages people into areas where pvp will happen, and 2 opposing groups meet up at a world boss what happens? More depth again...either they co-operate then kill each other, wipe each other on the boss, or sit back as they are outnumbered and lick their wounds, or call for more reinforcements.

 

WZ only pvp gets old after you play each map 4 times. Open world pvp is ever changing, adapting, and evolving to the current circumstances and attack plans of your enemies.

 

This - would be a start, but without changing the gear system none of it will really matter.

[Cgreenman]

Strict Faction balance mechanic is my vote( like if ilum only let 50 of each faction in at max , and scaled from say a 15 v 15 and kept letting players in until the cap w/ balance.. My 2nd vote would be PVPVE .

[EndlessObsession]

If it's going to be Faction vs Faction, I think a population cap is the best way to handle it. AI is rarely ever a good replacement for a live person, and I've yet to see where fights can relatively be balanced with NPCs or buffs as replacements.

 

I agree with this player. Faction vs Faction with strict balancing. 25 v 25 instanced maybe? if there aren't enough players to fill the 25... say 15 v 25, give a bolster buff to increase damage/healing/damage reduction by say 1 or 2 % for every player your team is down.

[GrassyGnoll]

This is not the direction that BioWare needs to go. I can't believe your are encouraging base trading when you know that is exactly all your system would accomplish. People need reasons to want to fight to keep a base just as bad as they need reasons to take it in the first place. If all you do is trade bases then that is NOT fun. That is NOT PvP. That is PvE in a PvP zone. We don't need another Warhammer here. We need something more like DAoC or Aion. A game with a 3rd faction to balance sides and then give players a reason to not only take a base, but to defend it.

 

Warhammer had it'sf (many) faults but they did make Keep defence worth your while. In fact some of my most fond memories are of Keep defences. Third factions are ok but not really what i personally like and I don't know how you'd shoehorn a third facton into Star Wars. I think an "RVR Lake" styled zone would be a great idea, with some form of faction buff (+xp or legacy or valor to the controling faction). There'sroom for all sorts in this game.

 

Oh, and change the name of "Expertise" to PVP Bonus Number", or PBN. Expertise means to be skilled at something, not spent more time doing it.

Edited April 18, 2012 by GrassyGnoll

[Samcuu]

IMO one way to fix the open world PVP would to create a system similar to what SWG used to have. Implement faction points. and player housing. Additional planets would be needed so accommodate this feature. Give good rewards for having said faction points. I would say armor but the game is already too focused on armor, it's basically an armor grind. How about weapon and armor schematics. That have different designs and give different stats. This would make different crafting skills viable. Then all gear wouldn't be so cookie cutter (this is a complete different issue though ). Anyhow set up some areas where players can go raid, maybe a little bit of pve, a place where opposing faction members can come and try to ruin their progress. Have some of the rewards be a base that is set up on another planet. The longer the base is up the more faction received by the guild that planted the base. Opposing faction can come along and try to destroy it. Set up an ops group to take it down at all times this would get everyone in one faction working together for one common goal TAKE DOWN THE BASE. This would set up some epic open world pvp battles, and more comradery between players in the same faction

[LanceGabriell]

I'm on Scepter of Ragnos (Eu). Second char rep on lvl 50. Leveling up my second lvl50 I only met an imp on some caves in Hoth (not counting when I deliberetly went to the imp sector in voss ka). No open world PVP otherwise. Finding groups for warzones is really difficult, and when you do, 2 reps against 8 imp warheroes on huttball, we get destroyed and 0 warzone commendations. One way to improve overall PVP (because atleast rep side SoR is totally dead), would be to open the fleets to enemy factions, capitol worlds, make quest givers killable and reward Warzone commendation for open world kills in a 5 level range.

 

As it is now is rather difficult for me to log in for warzones knowing I will be horribly destroyed, at best in a 6 man group against full warheroes groups. I'm stubborn, but logging now and getting destroyed for 2 hours to get 150 warzone comms is bordering to stupidity. Not counting the long queues.

 

Few questionable decisions along the time considering overall pvp in my opinion:

1. the ability to switch sides on PVP servers. We started outnumbered 2.5-3 on rep side, even more switched to imps on SoR to join the winning side (those that did not left the server)

2. Making most enemy bases, population nodes, not attackable, or with distances way to big to actually encourage such an endeavour.

3. too few intersection nodes for players (few on Tatooine, Alderaan, Hoth and Voss) combined with a low population on servers.

4. Why was the players number limit removed in warzones? Now I have to stay and get destroyed for 15 minutes even if we are 4-5 players undergeared?

5. Still no deserter debuff.

6. no incentive for open world PVP (give warzones comss!).

7. weird rewarding system for warzones. Favoures the outnumbering faction, and the geared players way too much. I repeat 2 vs 8 warheroes, offcourse we get destroyed in 5 mins (huttball), but really, 0 commendations even if I inficted some damage? or 6 vs 8 (civil war),15 commendations? they get what?..100?

 

overall impression.

This game is not for PVPers at the moment.

Unless they do some massive changes including Open world PVP (at the moment judging by SoR, I don't even know why they bothered making PVP and PVE servers, they are all PVE servers more or less), and considering the disaster with warzones I won't bother for long. I will log in once a day for 1h getting destroyed for 50 comms then I go to another game. I wait for the warzone cross server patiently but at the moment I feel like a masochist. I admit that the thought of cancelling my subscription occured to me but I still have hopes.

 

Sorry for the long rant.

Edited April 19, 2012 by LanceGabriell
clarifying which server I'm on

[RyderQuanTy]

Let me begin by stating this is my first and only mmo so i hve nothing to compare it to i will only state what I wont in the game.

 

Raw open worls pvp need to be something you are looking for not something that finds you. Larg hords cutting you down when you have limited time to play and were hoping to complete a quest is not fun. But setting out to find some crafting mats or powerful items knowing what you are getting into is very fun.

 

 

PVP/E I was actualy disapointed this was not part of the story. My expectation was that I would have quest that I would run with a group and find a group of opposing players. I would like some quest based pvp/e An ex of balance would be 4 lvl 20 80 lvls vs 18, 19 21 22

 

pvp/e NWN BOT server type enviroment would be fun too

 

PVP/e war zones that run like gauntlets pve race to complete some objectives as 8 or 2 x 4 person groups losers take damage based on the margin of victory.

 

individual pvp ie bounty system. the most complicated to impliment. I propose the following.

 

introduce mini games on the hutt planets ex of mini games gladiator pits pod racing, target shooting, poker, c3-po chewee chess ect (also sold sepperatly on as phone apps of corse)

 

the hutts take bets on the mini games (some smuggler is going to lose their ship I know i will bet a million no can take me in the galadiator pit)

 

if u can't cover a bet take out a lone from the hutts can pay the lone there is a bounty on your head create bounty boars ect. talk to poeple in the galaxy to find out where the person is

 

and if u lose to much coin and are ticked off at x credits you can rage atack

 

 

gambeling and vido games like an oreo and milk

[Sykotica]

I would like to see an objective based scenario with full op capability. It should be on all the time and be available to queue in solo. If its popular then more than one instance can be offered similar to what was done with Ilum. Once a player leaves another can join, and it never ends, just starts over once a team completes the objectives. ie restart at spawn and do it again. If one team is crushing the other then you can take the best player (most kills or medals) on that team and move him as he respawns to the opposite team once a space becomes available.

 

 

Also, I would love to see a PVP tournament. It would be single elimination rounds, with a winner take all. You queue in and once full the an arena would appear with you and your opponent. Battle to the death and the winner moves on until a final winner is declared.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Sykotica