Medpacks... are you kidding me?!?!!?!?

[Miaxi]

I don't like this change. I can most certainly overcome it in both pve and pvp but, imo its not well thought out and will not solve the underlying issue in terms of the ease of current content. Add more mechanics to the fight that require coordination don't take away medpacs the will only promote bringing very certain classes.

 

I am a melee(sentinel to be specific). I have a much smaller window to react to anything terrible going on around the boss during a fight. I use my medpacs,when I actually need to which is maybe 1-3 times a fight, so that the healers do not have to worry about me and so they can focus on the tanks and other more important things.

 

With the medpac change if any fight has anti-melee mechanics it is going to be unfun/less useful to bring a melee class. I'm not personally worried about it because I will just work around it but other players may not be able to do to whatever.

 

If you dislike medpacs so much just nerf how much they heal or something, don't make them 1 time combat use only. That is a bandaid fix to a larger problem and it won't last.

 

No offense, but if you have so many oh-damn moments that all your class cooldowns and a medpack are not enough, it might be time to step up your game.

[Opticflare]

I didnt know When I quit WoW... I got in to WoW Jr. the more patch notes I see the more World of war craft I see... dont get me wrong WoW is a great game... but I dont wanna play the same ****.... which is why I never got RIFT....

 

I blame all the stupid kids asking for duel spec and wow crap.... now we seing the bads of a copy cat game..... god I never complained when my lock got nerfed in wow..... or when they did changes to proffesions.... in this game it seems they purposely are doing this changes to piss people the hell up..... wonder how many people have quit subs.....

 

the mroe of these stupid changes i see the more i dont regreat to cancel.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Opticflare

[Pangscar]

Um doesnt take a rocket scientist to see what sells and what doesnt on the GTN..

 

raiders are buying as many Exotechs as people can put up..

noone wants the lower ones.

 

As I said in the post you quoted I can only speak for myself and my guild and what I personally see when I use the GTN.

 

But yes with this change it will be more cost effective to use the higher end medpacs now. Sure SOME raiders were always buying the higher end ones, but for more casual leaning raiders like myself and my guild mates, it will be now more worth it to buy and use the higher end medpacs.

[mattchanner]

I only see one problem with this. As a shadow you could start a fight get low and use a medpack. Then next time you get low exit combat with stelth and use another medpack. but that would also end combat for the one you are fighting and give them an oppertunity to use a medpack again so the shadow would have to quickly. pop stelth, heal, and initiation stun. as a result getting to medpacks while the enemy only gets one

[FarizAA]

I like this change for pvp. One more resource to manage, one more step between good player and bad player.

 

I want though BW make out of combat conditions for pvp more transparent. May be color of icon shall change, or some kind of time slider running... DO not know, because now it is often completely not intuitive when system considers you being out of fight.

[CecilTellyn]

Making the medpacs variable more controllable for endgame content is a necessary precondition for the creation of tighter, more closely balanced fights.

 

We don't want medpacs to be as important as class abilities, and we feel they should not become part of rotations. On longer boss fights, this is a trend we've seen happening, and we've counteracted this. Obviously, where needed, boss mechanics would be adjusted to account for this, but we don't really anticipate much impact for that on existing content.

 

New content (such as Operation: Explosive Conflict and Flashpoint: The Lost Island) is significantly tighter balanced already, with this limitation in mind.

 

A positive side effect is that the cost of running endgame content is somewhat reduced by this change.

 

We are still in discussions to restore pre-level 50 medpacs to their previous condition to avoid negatively affecting the PvE game during the leveling process for people that heavily rely on medpacs.

 

 

While I completely disagree with this anyway, you are on the right track with your last sentence.

 

What exactly is a Jedi Guardian supposed to do if we can't pop more than one medpack per encounter? True, I don't USUALLY have to do that but I have had to occasionally during a particularly long fight.

 

Unless you want to give all classes a self heal to compensate, nerfing the only way to heal yourself while soloing is not the answer. Most of the class quests are designed to be soloed and so we need medpacks. The cooldown on them was already insane anyway.

 

Add to this fact that the Jedi Knight (tank class) doesn't get their healing companion until level 35ish...

 

I just disagree with this change being made, especially for PvE. I can (almost) understand it for raiding but this is really just seems like a huge nerf to PvE people.

[iceperson]

Making the medpacs variable more controllable for endgame content is a necessary precondition for the creation of tighter, more closely balanced fights.

 

We don't want medpacs to be as important as class abilities, and we feel they should not become part of rotations. On longer boss fights, this is a trend we've seen happening, and we've counteracted this. Obviously, where needed, boss mechanics would be adjusted to account for this, but we don't really anticipate much impact for that on existing content.

 

New content (such as Operation: Explosive Conflict and Flashpoint: The Lost Island) is significantly tighter balanced already, with this limitation in mind.

 

A positive side effect is that the cost of running endgame content is somewhat reduced by this change.

 

We are still in discussions to restore pre-level 50 medpacs to their previous condition to avoid negatively affecting the PvE game during the leveling process for people that heavily rely on medpacs.

 

excellent reasoning for a good change.

[Blotter]

And hey...all my fellow sorcerer healers....now you only get to offset your 15% wrist slashing Consumption with a medpack ONCE during the boss fight! Yay!

[CounterfeitBubba]

As a full rakata sniper I disagree with this change.

 

Instead of nerfing players, you should be looking to buff others or increase the pve mobs if medpacks are a huge problem. Which I dont believe they are.

 

F.E. the hm soa fight in ev will not be doable with this medpack change in its current form.

 

Jumping down from the platforms in hm and waiting for the sorc aoe heals to hit the ground, if im forced to use 1 medpack the chances of someone dieing before we get to the bottom is extremely high.

 

Also when players have to run out and explode the lightning balls 2-3 times each phase, medpacks are the difference in life and death. So the soa fight will not be doable with this medpack change given the conditions of the current live version.

[ActosMagus]

Unless you want to give all classes a self heal to compensate, nerfing the only way to heal yourself while soloing is not the answer. Most of the class quests are designed to be soloed and so we need medpacks. The cooldown on them was already insane anyway.

 

If solo content can't be soloed without using multiple medpacs per encounter, then the encounter's difficulty needs to be adjusted to go along with this change. That doesn't make the medpac change itself invalid.

 

Instead of nerfing players, you should be looking to buff others or increase the pve mobs if medpacks are a huge problem. Which I dont believe they are.

 

F.E. the hm soa fight in ev will not be doable with this medpack change in its current form.

 

Jumping down from the platforms in hm and waiting for the sorc aoe heals to hit the ground, if im forced to use 1 medpack the chances of someone dieing before we get to the bottom is extremely high.

 

Also when players have to run out and explode the lightning balls 2-3 times each phase, medpacks are the difference in life and death. So the soa fight will not be doable with this medpack change given the conditions of the current live version.

 

Same as above, if the encounter is impossible with this change then the encounter needs to be retuned accordingly to compensate.

 

Personally, I'd just as soon not have to drop half a day's dailies worth of credits on medpacs every operations night just to get through one boss fight.

Edited March 22, 2012 by ActosMagus

[Magnesium]

You exit combat in PvP 8 seconds after the last hostile action. DOTs do not refresh this status.

 

You're playing very unusual games of Huttball if you never drop out of combat. Especially given that the ball resets to the center after someone scores, moving the action quickly.

 

hah, win.

 

The Medpac "changes" really don't effect PvP in my opinion. It is a rare game where you NEVER drop combat, unless your a tank constantly being healed and never killed etc. Voidstar is the only one where you have any change to remain in combat an entire round.

[Glzmo]

Please revert the change to medpacks. With my Guardian tank I barely survive in hard mode Flashpoints when I pop my Rakatta medpack regularly at boss fights, even with a good healer. Now that healers get the nerf bat and you nerf personal medpacks as well, it will be incredibly hard to survive, especially for people in pickup groups and more casual players.

 

It's also incredibly bad for solo PVEers that don't play a healing class. If every advanced class that doesn't have one a self-heal that's potent enough to keep people alive in such situations, it would be another matter. But some classes just can't do without medpacks. Some classes won't even be able to do their class quests now anymore unless the outlevel them significantly (in case you didn't notice, Jedi Knight class quests are still ridiculously hard compared to all other classes - Georg, you yourself said in Beta that you are aware of it and they would be toned down as well as Knights (Guardians/Sentinels) improved to be on par with other classes, but it never happened!).

Edited March 23, 2012 by Glzmo

[Wildcat]

Wow! What an absolutely HORRIBLE change.

 

This screws anyone in solo PVE who isn't a healer class.

 

Just goes to show that MMO developers just have to do things that pisses players off. Medpacks are the problem? Really? What about the OUTRAGEOUS amount of crowd control, which we keep BEGGING you do do something about?

[Tyraelium]

If you need harder content, buff the enemies. Don't nerf the players. It only sows discontent.

 

This.

 

PvE fights are a joke as of now anyway, who cares if some people are spamming MedPacs to survive?

 

WHEN IN DOUBT

 

COPY WOW.

[Grapenut]

I don't understand why would you limit a med-pack for duration of combat.

There is already a timer on using the med-pack.

 

Either increase the timer, or lower the medpac heal.

 

In the SOA fight. It is helpful to hit your medpack after being tosses around in the air. Or hitting a medpac after absorbing a ball.

 

This pretty much is a big nerf to melee classes, or classes that don't already have a heal.

 

What about classes that have vanish/cloak. They can get out of combat and pop it?

 

I think a lot of people who took biochem are going to be upset again.

[Bazzoong]

And hey...all my fellow sorcerer healers....now you only get to offset your 15% wrist slashing Consumption with a medpack ONCE during the boss fight! Yay!

 

No, since they probably will leave pre 50 medpacks the way they where, all that is going to happen is that you have to bring lvl 48 medpacks as well, you only will lose about 500 healing per use, which will be absolutely no problem.

 

Dear Dev Team,

 

with all due respect you are having a bad day, sit back relax and have some coffee and cookies, then rethink the implications of this, in pve the lower lvl medpacks will offer a work around mechanic, see above.

 

P.S.: the 8 sec and you are out of combat does not work that way in pvp, not ever, and giving the defending team on alderaan a free reset of cds upon dying will make suicide defense a real problem since the attacking team will never have medpacks.

[Vember]

Making the medpacs variable more controllable for endgame content is a necessary precondition for the creation of tighter, more closely balanced fights.

 

We don't want medpacs to be as important as class abilities, and we feel they should not become part of rotations. On longer boss fights, this is a trend we've seen happening, and we've counteracted this. Obviously, where needed, boss mechanics would be adjusted to account for this, but we don't really anticipate much impact for that on existing content.

 

New content (such as Operation: Explosive Conflict and Flashpoint: The Lost Island) is significantly tighter balanced already, with this limitation in mind.

 

A positive side effect is that the cost of running endgame content is somewhat reduced by this change.

 

We are still in discussions to restore pre-level 50 medpacs to their previous condition to avoid negatively affecting the PvE game during the leveling process for people that heavily rely on medpacs.

 

Then you need to give everyone some form of self healing. Preferably one that doesn't completely destroy our resource pool, such as the proposed self heal for Juggernauts, who, by the way, have zero self healing at the moment and have to rely on medpacks.

[Blotter]

No, since they probably will leave pre 50 medpacks the way they where, all that is going to happen is that you have to bring lvl 48 medpacks as well, you only will lose about 500 healing per use, which will be absolutely no problem.

 

Dear Dev Team,

 

with all due respect you are having a bad day, sit back relax and have some coffee and cookies, then rethink the implications of this, in pve the lower lvl medpacks will offer a work around mechanic, see above.

 

P.S.: the 8 sec and you are out of combat does not work that way in pvp, not ever, and giving the defending team on alderaan a free reset of cds upon dying will make suicide defense a real problem since the attacking team will never have medpacks.

 

I think what he meant by the level 50 thing is that you'll be locked out and onyl allowed 1 per fight once you reach level 50, but you'll still be able to use them more than once per fight if you're lower. I don't think the "level" he was referring to was the item level.

[Ewgal]

The one medpack per encounter hasn't been clearly thought out. Now as a ops raid leader you will be tempted to take the dps classes that can self heal over the ones that cannot. Especially the case since Bioware are nerfing healing specs for several classes with 1.2, so need classes to self heal occasionally to take the stress off their healers force/energy management. Edited March 22, 2012 by Ewgal

[ReddNekk]

how can they design challenging fights around players being able to just pop medpacks every 90 seconds

 

deal with it bub

 

The reason why there's a cooldown for using medpacks is to keep players from spamming them in fights. And it aint like they give mega-heals anyway.

 

Stuff like this really makes me wonder if the devs at Bio have ever played a MMO.

[Lostpenguins]

this is like me saying Cyber techs should only use a reuseable Granade once per combat.

 

No, it's not. Because healing and damage are two very different mechanics. Generally, the sum of damage in a fight > the sum of healing done in a fight. So you can't accurately equate a damage source to a healing source.

 

A medpak every 90 seconds is a significantly larger impact than a grenade (which is greather than 90 seconds, isn't it?) is in terms of what they contribute.

 

So please don't make terrible analogies.

[StrykerOne]

Yup, as I said earlier, I havent bought a single one, because why buy something expensive if I can eat it like candy? Now that I have to rethink my usage in a Ops scenario I'll surely end up buying Biochem ones.

 

How? I know on my main server there have been zero crafted medpacks above around level 16 on the GTN every time I have checked. I'd love to buy a few crafted medpacks to help me level up but aside from a very few really low level ones I just never see any except the occasional reusable (which as an Armormech does me no good whatsoever).

[Amatiste]

I didn't see this in the patch notes. Will go back and look. Is this yet another "stealth" change they threw in and "forgot" to mention in the notes?

 

Well, either way, it seems to me that this is just another thing to add to my list when I tell BW why I'm cancelling my account.

 

I play primarily solo. A change like this hurts the solo player immensely. They want to keep making this game harder and harder for the pvpers and the hard cores, fine. I won't be here to see it.

 

I also primarily solo, or duo with RL friend. I have a 47 Merc, only used medpacks a few times, and the fight is usually over before the CD on the pack is over, and I am not specced for healing, so I rarely heal. On my warriors and sents, I use medpacks a little more often, but again, the fights are usually done before the CD is gone. IMHO, if they take the cd away and only make it per-fight that's an improvement. That way I can go mob to mob faster cause i don't need to wait for CD on my packs. The CD's on athelas pots in LOTRO are longer than the packs, and i rarely feel i need two of those per a fight unless im soloing something I probably shouldnt be soloing. I have the same feeling here in SWTOR. Just make sure you carry on level packs, and ya shouldnt have a problem. Of course if you are fighting something where ya do need to pop packs like candy, might want to reconsider what ya fighting.

[Lostpenguins]

The reason why there's a cooldown for using medpacks is to keep players from spamming them in fights. And it aint like they give mega-heals anyway.

 

Stuff like this really makes me wonder if the devs at Bio have ever played a MMO.

 

Stuff like this makes me wonder if you understand that BW isn't the only company that made a change like this to an MMO...

[Keta]

No, since they probably will leave pre 50 medpacks the way they where, all that is going to happen is that you have to bring lvl 48 medpacks as well, you only will lose about 500 healing per use, which will be absolutely no problem.

 

Personally Baz, I think that's an optimistic presumption though it is a minor part of your post. What was stated was that they're in discussions not that they'll be making changes to this change or even that pre-50 medpacks will be reverted back to their current status in this patch. It might be changed, but it could very well be done several patches down the road not before 1.2 goes live.

 

 

On an entirely different perspective, will the story line missions be adjusted downwards to make them far easier if this goes through as it is now? Some of those are hard enough solo that multiple medpacks are necessary and BW has indicated they want the story lines to be soloable (though not easily so). Changing the pre-50 medpacks will necessitate changes in the story line mission difficulty for many of the mission or changing their labels to heroic 2+