The Myth of the SW:ToR Story; No it can't support an MMO.

[Goretzu]

Out of curiosity, what non pen and paper rpg lets you create your own story?

 

Any one with a decent GM/DM.

[RodneyMmKay]

I'm not an MMO player, I'm a Bioware and Star Wars player. The thought of grouping up and completing operations etc.. well I just don't know how to do it!

 

My biggest issue is not endgame, it's bloody crashing. I went though the whole of Beta with no CTD and then go away for a bit and uninstall my beta client, re-install from the disks and BAM! Crashes twice a night at least and LOOOADS of lagging now.

 

I'm now running through Sith Warrior for the third time.. and it's totally different each time, I'm playing though light and trying to get Vette (as I've messed this up last time).

 

I have all the other classes to play though! So while you say the story isn't enough, I say it is for me! I say forget about endgame and lets have some more story! Yes you skip some things with alts but not everything.

 

I'm not able to play more than a few hours in a night, sometimes going a few nights without a chance to play.

 

I would kill to have this game as a single player off line game! Maybe I just proved your point

 

I think its great you've jumped in with everyone to enjoy a new mmo! And I think you are the type of person this game was aimed at possibly. Which is nice, as I've really enjoyed grouping with new mmo players.

 

But I miss the warts and all mmo feel both mechanically and socially this game seems to lack. It's just a shame for mmo fans who are also huge Star Wars fans and really wanted this to work. For me Patch 1.2 is the dead line. I have confidence in BW to tell me a story. As yet after 4 months of launch they have yet to prove themselves up to the task of running an mmo....

[Lethality]

Personally, the story is the only thing that has made this game more engaging that the multitude of fantasy MMOs out there. MMOs have devolved to the point where they are power acquisition games. Most of the crap people are asking for on these boards are just means to get their pellets more efficiently.

 

The story isn't engaging to many folks because they aren't engaging the story. So many people here see the story as an impediment to the game, when instead IT IS THE GAME. Ridiculous endgame loot grinds don't make a MMO either.

 

I remember when I first started playing these games. I didn't even consider 'raiding' as that term is understood now. I used to have fun just exploring and living in another world. Just the wonder of different locales. Making my character as 'uber' as possible wasn't even a consideration. I only wanted to get more powerful so you could adventure more places.

 

I play SWTOR as an online version of the PnP Star Wars RPG. I long ago stopped worrying about the endgame loot grind. I enjoy playing my 50s because I enjoy playing them. Finding things for them to do, helping others, exploring places on my own and not just looking up datacron locations.

 

I feel sorry for Bioware and most other MMORPG developers. Blizzard mastered the Skinner box model of MMOs and folks now demand it. That's not what MMOs used to be about. MMOs used to be about living in another world. Not making numbers ever bigger.

 

The bottom line is computer-RPGs have evolved into their own thing... and is to some extent what people expect. You can't force something down someone's throat because "that's how it should be."

 

You have to respect that computer RPGs are as much about combat roles and progression as it is "story."

 

RPG isn't another word for story - it covers many facets of gameplay.

[Reico]

Any one with a decent GM/DM.

 

Maybe I should have put non pen and paper in bold.

 

Fixed.

[Nyla]

I don't know why people seems to discover things now, there's nothing new about it.

 

Writers from game companies are telling their story in which they left some/none non linear paths we can choose from.

 

Whatever path we choose, it has to fall back to an already written path.

 

 

I don't know either who thought story would be enough to keep people playing. Stories have a start and an end. When you reach the end, either more stories need to be added or new systems must come into play.

 

 

But I miss the warts and all mmo feel both mechanically and socially this game seems to lack. It's just a shame for mmo fans who are also huge Star Wars fans and really wanted this to work. For me Patch 1.2 is the dead line. I have confidence in BW to tell me a story. As yet after 4 months of launch they have yet to prove themselves up to the task of running an mmo....

 

Give us examples of what's missing, what things seems to be in others MMOs and not in TOR ?

[Kaphik]

Any one with a decent GM/DM.

 

What video game has a GM?

[davidpop]

Sandbox does not automatically equate to "make my own story". I will, however, agree with you that I would have liked to see much more choices and paths available in the story we get to follow on our characters. Perhaps the only way that could have really been done is if we didn't have to choose a specific class for the first 10 or maybe 15 levels and then the choices we made turned us into an advanced class. Then we continued on into the different story that each class got. Maybe in a future MMO something like that would be possible.

 

Kinda like the game i wouldnt have brought up, SWG in the old days

[Nyla]

The bottom line is computer-RPGs have evolved into their own thing... and is to some extent what people expect. You can't force something down someone's throat because "that's how it should be."

 

You have to respect that computer RPGs are as much about combat roles and progression as it is "story."

 

RPG isn't another word for story - it covers many facets of gameplay.

 

"What people expect", you said it. If people comes with big expectations and nerdrages when they found out it's different, it's not Bioware or any other companies fault.

[davidpop]

What video game has a GM?

 

All of them, they are just called devs

 

But yea, i guess EVE is the closest you get to that kinda game these days, i know that type of gameplay is not in high demand.

[RodneyMmKay]

 

 

Give us examples of what's missing, what things seems to be in others MMOs and not in TOR ?

 

I would point to most of the posts regarding endgame, combat logs, pvp etc. but that wasn't the point of the post really.

 

I took all of that as a given and yet swtor still doesn't have that social/mechanical aspect I've come to like in other mmo's. It's just funny because I can't put my finger on what that something is but it was definitely there, because having now played this I know when it isn't there if that makes sense.

 

I didn't know what I had till it was gone....

 

It is definitely not there yet in swtor though. It just has The Matrix written all over it.

 

xD

[DieAlteHexe]

Well the problem is although they change the quest text response, the actual thing your character says is just one of a few (usually short) canned quotes.

 

 

Hearing "I will crush them" for the 1000th time does get old, especially when it's in response to a variety of text responses.

 

This doesn't really become apparent till some of the later bonus quest sets and Ilum especially, suggesting they were developed after the voice actor were done and dusted, I'd guess.

 

How is that any different/worse than other MMOs though?

 

Sorry, I just don't see the problem. Sure, there are repeats but there are in other games as well, not vocalised but textual. So I'm mystified why people are upset because they are vocalised here...I mean, we all know how to use the spacebar. No different (using spacebar) than slamming whatever key it was in any other MMO that gave out text quests dialogs.

[Lazzer]

I've played most of the MMOs on the market since around 2001, with the exception of WoW as I was too busy with EQ1.

 

To me the story is the best thing here and it makes the levelling fun, in my opinion levelling is far too quick.

 

If you are basing your game around a story and the levelling system then the story should last long enough so that new story content comes out before the previous is completed by the majority of the player base. There will always be those that level fast but the average player takes around 2 months to get from 1 to 50 in this game and an experienced gamer can do it in about a month (I'm not counting power gamers here who spend 12 hours a day playing).

 

It should have been extended to 6 months for the average gamer so that they complete it by the time a new expansion is released.

 

The worst part of the game is the endgame because the story and motivation just dies, why on earth do they jump from story to repeatable dailies?? That's a killer for anyone that enjoyed the story lines, make your entry level armour take just as much time as grinding dailies but put it in an epic quest style story line that forces you to go back to different planets and trigger spawn mobs and event but above all follow a story line.

 

After playing a story why on earth is everything instanced and in one spot? PvP queues and teleports to warzones (bleh) give me open world PvP zones with story lines, NPCs ect to complete.

 

Operations and all level 50 flashpoints out of the fleet? Put them on the planets, make people find them, make them tie in with the story. It will keep the planets occupied.

 

World bosses, why are they single bosses out in the open? They were a great opportunity for unrestricted (level and number of player wise) for open world raiding for those of us that do not want instanced raiding. Put them in dungeons with mini-bosses!

 

Multi-group content under level 50? When my guild 1st started here we had 12 people hit around level 30 and look for something to do together, not a single Operation exists for under level 50.

 

When we had people hit 50 we wanted to go into an operation to size it up, we had 5 level 50s and 7 people from level 47-49, we couldn't enter prior to level 50...

 

We actually had to wait for the guild members to get to 50 before we could act like a guild, that to me was a bad sign and very annoying.

 

That is for me (in this game) the biggest anti-climax, you go from travelling all over galaxy, following a well written narrative to repeating dailies on 2 planets or standing on Fleet waiting for a group.

[Reico]

All of them, they are just called devs

 

But yea, i guess EVE is the closest you get to that kinda game these days, i know that type of gameplay is not in high demand.

 

That is an understatement, and I knew you would duck my question.

 

Go figure.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Reico

[Karson]

I understand it.

 

But just call it like it is, we are telling you a story, insted of trying to sell it as my story, because, it isent.

 

SWTOR is a good game and i do enjoy it, i just wish it was abit more sandboxy

 

 

 

Actually, when you feel immersed in the events taking place, you feel like the story is yours. I felt that way in some class stories. Of course I didn't write it but no MMORPG allows you to create your own story. I still feel I'm part of a story my character is the main actor of. So in a sense the story is mine.

 

In most MMORPG, players do not take the time to read the quest dialogue. They only look at the quest objective and the location and that's it. The addition of VO in SWTOR removed the need to read since you only have to listen, which is by far more enjoyable than reading text.

 

But it would indeed be nice that my choices have a real impact on the story. You decide if this guy lives or die? No matter, the story goes on as if it never happened. I hope they hone that part in future expansions. So far I'm still enjoying the game and look forward to seeing it improved.

[sjmc]

World bosses, why are they single bosses out in the open? They were a great opportunity for unrestricted (level and number of player wise) for open world raiding for those of us that do not want instanced raiding. Put them in dungeons with mini-bosses!

By putting them in the open world where you can come across them while questing, this allows everyone to have a chance to see the world boss and at least consider how to take it down. It is a lot easier to get a group together from whoever is around to have one fight, that everyone can easily get to, rather than try to come up with a pickup "raid" to do multiple bosses in a dungeon.

 

Bosses at the bottom of dungeons will never be seen by anyone except those that raid. There are already lots of bosses like that. EDIT: I'm not saying that there should not be dungeons with bosses, just that there can be more than one type of boss/encounter.

Edited March 22, 2012 by sjmc

[Frostvein]

Tor better or worse, this is the patth they've chosen.

 

The best thing to do is realize that this game is never going to be sandboxy, nor is it ever going to be a real themepark either. It just lacks too many things required to be either.

[Reico]

Tor better or worse, this is the patth they've chosen.

 

The best thing to do is realize that this game is never going to be sandboxy, nor is it ever going to be a real themepark either. It just lacks too many things required to be either.

 

I completely agree, MMOs never change or add things.

 

What you see is what you get at launch, period.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Reico

[Galbatorrix]

This could derail the thread topic, but I agree... the "story" is told, and we're participating in it. Which I'm actually 100% ok with, but it makes the illusion of choice frustrating and honestly a waste of time.

 

I like how Blizzard tells story in WoW, through action and demonstration... yes, I don't have to answer some specific choice, and it's not about _my_ character, but in the end if it doesn't matter, than it doesn't matter.

 

 

Wait... Wow has a story? I played it for 4 years! Why didn't someone tell me!??!

 

 

 

Anyway, SWTOR is a story based game and the journey will end up feeling very different based off your choices. Your choices may not affect the over all story arc, but the feel of your character can be very different depending on how you react to situations. Which is why I still don't space bar most of the story even though I have alts galore.

[Frostvein]

I completely agree, MMOs never change or add things.

 

What you see is what you get at launch, period.

 

Man you are SO CLEVER.

 

Seriously dude, get a clue. The basis of this game is a linear single player RPG with coop. Even if Bioware decided to scrap this design completely in favor of adding either sandbox elements or more themepark elements, its still never going to be a true sandpark or themepark design.

 

Im not mad at them but it is what it is. Complete the story, PvP for a bit, clear the raids in like 3 weeks, unsub until next content patch/expansion or level alts if that is your thing.

[Carbonated]

if jerry sienfield can make a show with no set story line that lasts for 7 years im pretty sure bioware can at least get 2 with one no not one but 8 different storys with different outcomes.

 

thats my logic and yes i have strong pain killers.

[sjmc]

but the feel of your character can be very different depending on how you react to situations.

By taking different choices, a different talent tree and/or a different companion, even levelling a character of the same advanced class a second time will get a slightly different story/experience. Each advanced class has at least 15 different combination of talent trees and companions, each of which will give you a different approach to encounters and gameplay. Each of those could take a light-side approach or a dark-side approach, or roleplay a middle option. Edited March 22, 2012 by sjmc

[Galbatorrix]

Man you are SO CLEVER.

 

Seriously dude, get a clue. The basis of this game is a linear single player RPG with coop. Even if Bioware decided to scrap this design completely in favor of adding either sandbox elements or more themepark elements, its still never going to be a true sandpark or themepark design.

 

Im not mad at them but it is what it is. Complete the story, PvP for a bit, clear the raids in like 3 weeks, unsub until next content patch/expansion or level alts if that is your thing.

 

 

 

This game uses the WOW model. It's has all of the basic that WOW offers with the exception of some features like RDF and LFR. SWTOR has a better leveling experience thanks to the story and WOW has a better end game experience thanks to those two features. This is the only current thing SWTOR is missing. The game needs more FPs and it needs a RDF. People simply got too used to grouping this way to bother trying to find pugs day in and day out. Once it does have this feature, WOW will have absolutely nothing on SWTOR.

 

 

 

Personally, I'm taking my time leveling several alts all at once, but once I do hit 50, I do NOT want to spend an hour of my play time every night or more trying to pug a FP. And joining a scheduled guild run doesn't work as work/family prevents me from playing at set intervals at times.

 

This game has to get a RDF feature if it wants to succeed.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Galbatorrix

[Gorghte]

Personally, the story is the only thing that has made this game more engaging that the multitude of fantasy MMOs out there. MMOs have devolved to the point where they are power acquisition games. Most of the crap people are asking for on these boards are just means to get their pellets more efficiently.

 

The story isn't engaging to many folks because they aren't engaging the story. So many people here see the story as an impediment to the game, when instead IT IS THE GAME. Ridiculous endgame loot grinds don't make a MMO either.

 

I remember when I first started playing these games. I didn't even consider 'raiding' as that term is understood now. I used to have fun just exploring and living in another world. Just the wonder of different locales. Making my character as 'uber' as possible wasn't even a consideration. I only wanted to get more powerful so you could adventure more places.

 

I play SWTOR as an online version of the PnP Star Wars RPG. I long ago stopped worrying about the endgame loot grind. I enjoy playing my 50s because I enjoy playing them. Finding things for them to do, helping others, exploring places on my own and not just looking up datacron locations.

 

I feel sorry for Bioware and most other MMORPG developers. Blizzard mastered the Skinner box model of MMOs and folks now demand it. That's not what MMOs used to be about. MMOs used to be about living in another world. Not making numbers ever bigger.

 

^This^

[Melacon]

This game uses the WOW model. It's has all of the basic that WOW offers with the exception of some features like RDF and LFR. SWTOR has a better leveling experience thanks to the story and WOW has a better end game experience thanks to those two features. This is the only current thing SWTOR is missing. The game needs more FPs and it needs a RDF. People simply got too used to grouping this way to bother trying to find pugs day in and day out. Once it does have this feature, WOW will have absolutely nothing on SWTOR.

 

They need some type of progression....Being allowed to walk right into HM's and get the best gear in the game is silly. There is no point in doing FP's when normal raids are easier and you get 20 drops in 2 hours vs 1 drop in hour and 45 minutes. (starting out mind you) you can't find pugs because they are pointless....get orange gear, do dailys for two days, BAM Raid ready

[DarthZaul]

The biggest problem with basing the game entirely around story is that you don't need to even buy the game, nevermind subscribe to see the story. Light side, dark side and RP versions of all the class stories are on youtube and when the choice is watching that or doing NS and Taris for what feels like the 1000th time its an easy choice. Edited March 22, 2012 by DarthZaul