Chill Winston. It's all good. IVXX *pass*

100% on the fence. ...all hinges on the direction Patch 1.2 takes. if it doesn't sort out it's "mmo content" then I don't want to stay subscribed to a serialized comic.

Well said. I for one still say the two new starting zones of the cat exp (esp goblin) were some of the funniest and enthralling mmo moments I've ever had leveling. Whoever wrote the new quests went out of their way to make you laugh in so many dark and in joke kinda ways; it was a blast. For me though the most important part of the game was when cata first launched and the level of challenge posed by heroics etc. In the end the only reason I stopped playing wow was because they nerfed the heroics and made them easier. That game was great before they did that. But at least WoW went there. It does every once and a while like a moth to a flame. But I can't see BW ever having the balls to even think of going there.... It frightens their bottom line. And that's sad. Games were supposed to be dangerous. That's the point. It's the only safe way we get to do this stuff.

I completely agree with what you say there. You have to give it to BW that I personally think they nailed the first pillar. But in all fairness it's SW so very hard to screw up. Sorry scratch that last statement xD I think the community is hit and miss at the moment. In game I have a very very mixed bag. But that's to be expected in this game. The practice of using this forum to mostly just vent and all the social, nice, relaxed and fun stuff is done off site is BW's fault I feel. I'm sorry to say. Bioware made their bed on this issue in how they treated the Off Topic community on this forum. That was the fun social side of this forum. Bioware in complete silence cut out the forum and basically said "so what, deal with it". So now they have a very toxic forum with very little fun, chill stuff going on. Well. Bioware created this toxic environment I believe. I hang out on other forums for the nice social swtor stuff. But for me it's (2). They did some bits amazingly well. But it seems every major mmo foundational component they messed up. From economy to endgame to pvp etc. The problem I have now is I don't know what "fixed" looks like from BW's perspective. Like you say. Regardless of what goes on I would love to see BW create the game they wanted. I think I just feel very very very very unsure about what BW feels an mmo is. And I don't know if I can pay for a 12 month conversation. At the end of which I'll find out where it's going. Great chat! Very good thoughts! I'm crossing my fingers BW pull it off.

I think this post had my jaw dropping more than any other I've seen. Are you genuine? This for me is where communication breaks down. I understand the concept of soloing in an mmo but you seem to come close to suggesting the whole thing should just be treated as a single player game? The entire foundation of an mmo is not an ideological one. Get to max level as fast as possible. It's just basic math. You play a game for 4 years. How much of that time do you spend leveling and how much of that time do you spend with capped toons. I'm sorry but it's simple statistics. Eventually you arrive where you intended to go. This game is already losing every mmo friend I had when I joined, sugesting this kind of insanity is guaranteed to kick this game into touch. It's not a "selling point" to have endgame content in an mmo generally. You kind of need it to be defined as one. SW:ToR is at most only a Casual MMO at the moment. If they water it down any more it will be SW: SIMS.

Bw thought that extending pvp encounters were the way to go; Great. BW used cc to do this; not so great. I can understand some of the feelings expressed.

Same position here. It gets worse in that all the toons I mainly play on are getting their points refunded when the patch hits, so even learning the class is a redundant argument for me. My head tells me I should like this game. But I just don't enjoy playing it at the moment. And I don't know why. It's a million different things I guess.

Release the numbers! I don't want to just be able to parse my information on myself. I want Baseball level statistical information at my finger tips in game about everyone who chooses to buy into "hardcore" pvp mode. I want a spreadsheet/analysis environment capable of real time analysis, built into swtor to handle the mountains of data I can then trawl through; the likes of which would make EvE Online users jealous. I understand what your intent was/is with the combat log situation but just no.... You can't fight human nature on the Internet. Might as well declare war on the Internet's Freudian Id. Just please. Release the numbers!

Is any other profession useful in end game yet? No. And this is their answer?

I hate to say it but this is what happens when you release a half finished game. I'm still trying to get my head around alt farming being the focus of an mmo.... That being said I will benefit from Legacy but only because some of my alts in my alt farm are not human. My first toon (was to be my main) was human. I would of chosen differently had I known any of the legacy system. But no one knew did they.... But I'm wondering how the Legacy system benefits me at all. I have so many alts now I don't even really know which one is my main any more. I feel like I'm playing Sim's not an mmo now'a days.... I really want to be blown away with 1.2 but digesting the patch notes I just get a sinking feeling really.

I would have to agree in part with the previous comment. The endgame content is in no shape to need a recount type tool. The only area it would be helpful at the moment is pvp imho. Which is a shame really. But I agree this whole third party parsing notion BW is pursuing just muddies the waters even more rather than helping it. At least I could trust some of the real time information apps. I could trust them because I was watching the information come in. Which was nice....

Design an actual MMO with actual challenges in it. Not just a serialized comic time sink for alt farming.

The credits wouldn't concern me in the slightest If there was a functioning economy in swtor instead of the complete mess that's there now. It's not so much earning the credits as having to wrestle with the GTN UI. But a functioning economy is an mmo feature. So I'm not sure how it fits into The BW Story.

The Sims Social = SW:ToR Discuss.

Completely fair comment. And some of those times sounded great! But...I guess it's just not enough for me I'm starting to think. I didn't realize it wasn't enough when I started but I now do. Unfortunately I can only go through story so many times. There has to be a challenge of some sort to keep some people interested. It wasn't the story that kept me playing mmo's for years and years. Plus there is the issue previously mentioned by someone else. I don't want to pay a subscription for a book I read new chapters in as I faceroll through content and alts that get increasingly easy to level. Which is what the Legacy system will do. It's kind of silly in a way. It will burn people through low level content faster (where BW put all their money) and get them to their alt max quicker leaving nothing but whatever endgame they have to pick up the slack. Which at the moment it does not do. Endgame is a ghost town. The issue to me is simple. Every company is switching to a sub basis strategy because its good money. I don't mind paying money to test me and my friends abilities against content, I do however mind paying money every month just to read a serialized comic. I payed about $140 for the game then lets say I do a year. That's about $320 just for mostly story updates. Like someone said before. If you want to sell me a story then write the game. But don't try and take me for mmo money every month when all your doing is running a serialized comic for my alt farm house. I didn't realize it but constructing an alt farm house is not what I played mmo's for. But it seems this is all this game is designed to do. I spend about 90% of my time on alts in this game. At most this is a leveling game with story. But it's certainly not an mmo yet I feel. I say this fully having enjoyed those things you mentioned. But for $320 for my first year I would prefer a gaming challenge rather than new dialogue options in leveling quests. I think SWTOR is trying to be too much to too many people. And all I've noticed is the people who play mmo's have left or are leaving or just waiting to see what happens in Patch 1.2. That is not hyperbole just my personal experience of the game. All of them say the same things about what's wrong with it and then usually end on the same deffinition. It's a single player game nested in a social setting. More or less... I loved reading what you wrote though. Reminds me of how I used to feel 8-9 toons ago....