Why do so many in mmo's now hate grouping?

[DalrisThane]

Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane

[Jmannseelo]

Well, being as KOTORs 1 & 2 are the only representatives of a single player KOTOR game, it's as fair an extrapolation as any. And while they were both fun enough, I also think they both pale in comparison to what we have right now in SWTOR. If it ain't broke....

 

And I very much disagree about soloable content in the future. Why, 1.2 is going to add a soloable Corellia Daily thread, and that isn't even a full expansion.

 

As for people who like to do a little of this, a little of that....I'm one of those people and I'm sure I'm not alone. While soloing is usually my first choice, I also enjoy flashpoints and ops. Space is a nice diversion too. The only thing I don't ever do is PvP. Never have, never will.

[DalrisThane]

Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane

[NotDonnaReed]

I see so many posts now how ppl hate being in guilds and being forced to group to do some of the things in game.

 

Why in the heck are these ppl playing an mmo? If these ppl had their way we would be playing a single player game ( which at this point we are not far from ) but they are only making it worse.

 

What has happened to the mmo gaming world? It used to be great ppl wanted to group and all that stuff now it seems ppl have become very antisocial.

 

Oh my goodness, tell me about it!! Even after people join our guild, we have a really hard time getting them to register on our website, use the vent server, and sign up for events on the raid calendar... I understand (sort of) that it's inconvenient to tab out of the game and set these things up, and of course it would be nice if this functionality were available in game. But given that it isn't at this time, I don't see why people won't use the tools that we've made available to them. And then these same people complain that we a) never talk to them (because they're not on vent) or b) never run flashpoints with them (because they didn't sign up on the raid calendar). I gotta say, it's extremely frustrating. Gaming used to feel like summer camp, and now it feels like the drive-through lane at the bank.

[Katarine]

Major problem with teaming at MMOGs these days is the whole "gogogo"- mentality and overall fast gameplay pacing which encourages such mentality. No social element in teams at all. People don't want to team up with other humans, they want to team up with DPS-bots/Tank-bots/Healer-bots/whatever-bots. Vast majority of such teams are just as asocial as soloing, except that in such teams you can't even stop to send messages to non-team-members since that would slow the team down.

 

For me, at least, this is really why Grouping has moved from a Fun & Social experience to a Hectic & Frustrating experience.

 

Like othere I have been playing MMO's for about 10 years & I have some very fond memories of City of Heroes Atta & Frostfire missions ... I recall one such Atta mission took 4 hours one night & we all had a great time & got to know each other ... as I levelled up I recall teaming with the same people whilst in PUG's & you eventually got to know players capabilities ... you really could not solo the Hazard Zone missions back then but that was great because the 'Newspaper' missions were aimed for solo play & Hazard Zone for grouping ... but they changed that now.

 

The general trend is the same in all mmo's now. Contrary to what some here believe, the MAIN reason MMO's have moved from small-time Niche to Big-Time Mainstream is the ability to Solo. Thus City of Heroes encouraged both types with differing zones ... but they didn't stick with that.

 

The problem with mmo's now is that the anonymity the internet offers. Some players are simply not nice people & know they can get away with stuff on the internet they would not get away with in the fabled 'Real-World'.

 

People are their own worse enemy & all the bad grouping experiences start to leave bitter after tastes. No one does Four-Hour Atta missions now, in many cases you are frowned upon simply for stopping to pick up loot in most mmo groups now. If someone wants that Gold Item drop you just had, but simply refuse to hand over the loot that was dropped for you, they will simply leave the group - they can pull childish temper tantrums & know they will get away with it, all due to Anonymity.

 

There are more players in mmo's today, there is a much greater chance of teaming with a Jerk now than there was 'back in the day'. If I team up I will always say 'Hi' to each team member & there is always one that simply has no desire to 'Chat' - GO GO GO ... don't stop to pick up loot or you get Kicked ... GO GO GO ... don't stop, GO GO GO ... I complete this mission in 120 secs & you are slowing me down ... GO GO GO ...

 

... where is the 'FUN' in that?

 

As for 'Solo Players should not play mmo's ...' I have to remind you that prior to 'Solo-Friendly' content in mmo's the genre was very much niche ... 250,000 players would be HUGE! We would not have had Rift, SWTOR, & such ... who would pump in Millions of Dollars for a Niche genre? Thus to remove the solo player would kill the genre or at least drop it back to a niche corner.

 

A large amount of today's 'Solo Players' are Yesterday's Groupers ... jaded & worn by their experiences as the genre moves into a 'Fast-Food' SPEEEEEEEEEED experience ... GO GO GO!

 

 

And then these same people complain that we a) never talk to them (because they're not on vent) or ...

 

... another thing that kind of KILLS grouping is the Insistance of Chat programs like Vent, Teamspeak, Mumble ...

 

WHY?

 

Simple, MMO's are, for the majority RPG's (MMORPG). ROLE being the operative word. It kind of kills my Immersion when I hear that rough, tough looking Trooper - who I might IMAGINE has a Vin Diesel type voice, actually has nasally high voice & is CONSTANTLY moaning about his brother playing Pac Man in the same room as him, or ... no, I could spend HOURS listing all the Drama that happens in verbal chat ...

 

... ROLE.

.......ROLE PLAYING ....

 

... Impossible to maintain any credible 'Character' in Verbal Chat.

The insistance of these 'Chat' programs in Teams is also partly responsible for the decline of Groups.

Great if you are forming 'RAIDS', you don't need 'Role', you are not looking for 'Character' you simply need a team that can efficiently complete the Raid with other players who have the same desire. Also in PvP - again 'Role' & 'Character' play a much smaller role - PvP is very competitive.

 

But in Normal PvE, I want to be able to believe that Jedi Knight is a Jedi Knight, or that Mage is a magic wielding Mage ... not some kid boasting how he's drunk & going to puke up on his mom's bed for a laugh.

 

So, in conclusion, Chat Programs that kill immersion & trying to complete each mission like a race are heavily contributing to the demise of Groups ... good, old fashioned social & fun experiences.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Katarine

[Cerion]

Another reason I selectively group: My companions are better roleplayers in many cases I like to roleplay when I'm in MMOs...I don't want to hear about politics or hear you ***** about this or that, or talk about the last episode of American Idol.

[Evuke]

why i hate grouping/guilding:

 

- 12 year old kids raging in vent

- 16 year old kids thinking they are cool dropping the f bomb and c bomb every third word in vent

- 18 year old kids who love the sound of their own voice in vent and feel the need to tell us ever detail of their lives and every opinion on everything constantly.

- 24 year old kids who are running dps meters bragging about how much uber-dps their fotm OP class is doing compared to everyone else.

- guild politics

- guild events that require you to be at certain places at certain times or you get booted from the guild

- guilds make you jump through hoops to get into the guild, it's seriously easier to buy a kilo of uncut ****** than at is to sign up to some guilds.

 

at the end of the day it is just easier to play by myself and roll with pugs when needed than be part of a guild.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Evuke

[BlestSolis]

I see so many posts now how ppl hate being in guilds and being forced to group to do some of the things in game.

 

Why in the heck are these ppl playing an mmo? If these ppl had their way we would be playing a single player game ( which at this point we are not far from ) but they are only making it worse.

 

What has happened to the mmo gaming world? It used to be great ppl wanted to group and all that stuff now it seems ppl have become very antisocial.

 

Online games have more content then single players and this game is catered to single players kinda.

[KrazieFox]

why i hate grouping/guilding:

 

- 12 year old kids raging in vent

- 16 year old kids thinking they are cool dropping the f bomb and c bomb every third word in vent

- 18 year old kids who love the sound of their own voice in vent and feel the need to tell us ever detail of their lives and every opinion on everything constantly.

- 24 year old kids who are running dps meters bragging about how much uber-dps their fotm OP class is doing compared to everyone else.

 

 

Evuke basically outlined my own personal reasons I find groups now to simply not be as much fun as they did back in the Pre - Vent/Team Speak/ era.

 

I am playing, & Paying to play, a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. RPG is why I got into MMO's in the first place.

 

I see the necessity of Vent/Teamspeak for Competitive play, like Raiding & pvp - but NOT for RPG - in fact it completely counters RPG unless you actually take on the Role within Teamspeak, but you find that those on these Chat Programs do NOT do so & most probably have no interest in playing that Role ...

 

I love solo, I love grouping & I particularly love PUG's but as soon as any group/team leader says we all have to be on Vent/Teamspeak I'm gone.

I think if you completely removed these Chat programs from RPG's you would see an Increase in Teaming again. Or at least insist everyone STAYS in CHARACTER in Chat. But that is not going to happen. Thus, for those interested in the RPG element of MMORPG, soloing is probably the only viable option. Sad, but true.

[raptured]

Oh my goodness, tell me about it!! Even after people join our guild, we have a really hard time getting them to register on our website, use the vent server, and sign up for events on the raid calendar... I understand (sort of) that it's inconvenient to tab out of the game and set these things up, and of course it would be nice if this functionality were available in game. But given that it isn't at this time, I don't see why people won't use the tools that we've made available to them. And then these same people complain that we a) never talk to them (because they're not on vent) or b) never run flashpoints with them (because they didn't sign up on the raid calendar). I gotta say, it's extremely frustrating. Gaming used to feel like summer camp, and now it feels like the drive-through lane at the bank.

 

I am one of those people you are referring to. I personally like to type when I play these games. For whatever reason I am not a fan of using vent. I like to have my surround system turned up or have music on and typing. Vent impedes that for me so I never bother setting it up. But it seems like every guild wants to be on vent now and no one types and while I have been leveling I have not had many cool conversations.. the only conversations I have had was making fun of trolls in the general chat channel.

 

 

I don't mind using vent if I am doing a raid or operation or whatever but having it on all the time isn't for me. By not really developing any friend ships in this empty single player MMOish game it has sort of ruin'ed most of the fun.

 

The guilds I have joined are always empty there are like 30-40 people in them but there is only like 3 people on at a time. I have switched like 10x and have not been satisfied with any of them yet. There was one decent one but required vent to communicate. I guess I am out of luck.

[FormlessOne]

My guild uses Mumble, but the only purpose it serves is to provide direction in large-group encounters (we've been together a long time, through several games.)

 

I have to spend much of my work day in constant communication with others on my vendor team. IMs, email, telephone calls, teleconferencing, online design sessions - it can be stressful. So, when I come home and unwind, I enjoy being able to both limit the avenues of communication to me, as well as control the amount of communication I receive.

 

So, I only use Mumble when necessary, and I type in chat channels the rest of the time. It's relaxing for me, which makes it fun, which allows me to do things like chatting in character. That's what MMORPGs used to be about, before the "grist mill" approach of so many MMOs.

[Evuke]

I love grouping & I particularly love PUG's but as soon as any group/team leader says we all have to be on Vent/Teamspeak I'm gone.

I think if you completely removed these Chat programs from RPG's you would see an Increase in Teaming again.

 

Exactly, before vent/teamspeak/mumble i used to love big groups, raids, etc. I could put up with the guild politics even, it's really the idiots in vent that ruined grouping for me.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Evuke

[GnatB]

I think most people would prefer a singleplayer Kotor 3, but are instead making do with this? I know most of the people on the gaming boards I frequent were upset that the new star wars game bioware was working on was an MMO, and not Kotor 3.

 

Especially since this game has some of the characters (or descendants of characters) from Kotor, so is almost a sequal.

 

That being said, there are also inevitably people like my Dad, who don't like grouping in MMO's, but rather like them because they continually get new content far more frequently than single player games, w/o having to relearn the mechanics for an entirely new game.

 

(most single player games NEVER get new content, and the rest might get a single expansion...)

[HanVenatici]

Just to throw my 2 credits worth in...

 

Asked to join a group once...

after 15 mins of being interrogated about what skills I have, the ranks, what mods I have in my armor, what skills I have in my hotbar, how many hot bars I use, my rotation, what order I have my hotkeys, what key bindings I'm using, my experience level with grouping, my stat points, my health points, my shield percentage, defense numbers, damage numbers and etc... I walked away shaking my head.

 

No matter what level quest, most peeps are so hung up on "numbers" that by the time they interrogate you and you anwser all the questions... you could have already ran the quest twice.

 

Just my opinion but if you spam the general chat begging for peeps to group with you... why be so rude, mean and hateful to the person that offers to group with you?

 

Then there is the harrsement... make a simple mistake or not using your skills in the correct order or if you hit the number 3 key 0.074 seconds slower then the other player. Always find it so funny that peeps become hyper-senstive to such tiny numbers and will be even worse if they add a damage meter to the game.

 

Now back before EQ, peeps would join in groups to play together just because it was so much fun meeting new people, having fun together and cracking jokes. Back in my EQ addiction I never had a problem grouping, everyone was in a group, everyone had much fun together and there was more laughter then killing mobs. But then came along that bad cheap knock-off of EQ and gaming communities changed into fearful, hateful things to run away from and players became obessed with l00tz, uber and numbers so darn small that you cant see them in game.

 

Gamers loved grouping because it was so much fun!

**Before**

*the bad cheap EQ knock-off took over the market*

**after**

No one likes grouping because its such a bad experience due to players being waaay to seriuos over this whole eliteness crapola.

 

I for one could care less what items, mods or skills you have... if you are looking to have fun, then lets group!

 

So anyways... that is my opinion, most dont like to group because its not fun any more.

 

Your first part made me chuckle and the rest i also agree with. Back in the day it was fun to group, plain and simple, people were nice and we all worked together. Now its not fun because its all about the loot and the end game *yawn*.

[Mamae]

Hmm I don't understand the issue with Vent/TS, I get in vent with guidies and we chit chat, I don't hear any drama, happy to admit though that most are in their 30's or over.

 

As to pugs, well the game doesnt have voice chat like some do, so there is no chatting.

 

The go go go thing can be a bit annoying, somedays it doesnt bother me, others I would like to take it easy, but I think a lot of people are in a race to cram as many flashpoihts as possible into there daily gametime.

[Captain_Zone]

Hmmm. Now, I can't say I hate grouping, IF I can find a good group when my friends aren't on. I do blame WoW, EQ, and EQ II for people not wanting to group up for everything. From what I saw in WoW beta, and from playing a LOT of EQ and EQ II, people were basically forced to group up for anything past a certain level. Can't speak for everyone, but I don't like being told I have to do anything when I'm playing a game that should be enjoyable, no matter what. Also, I can kinda blame City of Heroes for making it easy to solo pretty much everything. There are some things in the game that require a group, but nothing major that interferes with the story arcs.

 

That said, I do enjoy playing through TOR alone. Reminds me of my weeks spent playing KotOR and KotOR II, and I ALWAYS play Class Missions alone. Planetary missions I can group for. Only thing I find annoying is how some Elites in story missions that are supposed to be balanced for soloing almost require a group because the only way to beat the last boss solo is by sheer luck. I believe this is because of bad balancing of some Elite and Strong mobs. Either that, or they're still balanced for an earlier build when player classes hadn't been nerfed as much yet. That is my suspicion for (Imperial side Voss) Avatar of Sel-Makor and most Sorcerer-type and Melee Specialist Elites.

[Ubernooby]

I do like grouping.

That said, I rarely do it on SWTOR (and many other MMO's) anymore.

 

Between the elitist who think you are never good enough to team them, and the noobs who are not equipped gear-wise or skill-wise to get the job done, it has become hard to find a good team.

 

"ADHD" is another problem - too many people join a group and if we have to wait 5 minutes, they leave because it didn't start fast enough. Worse yet, when they don't pay attention to basic instructions and mess up the whole mission. Having no patience and paying no attention to anything has become a social disease.

 

Also, whatever happened to politeness and basic manners?

Many people start cussing and insulting as soon as they join a group. Why? Is being rude the new cool?

 

Why would you go afk and not tell anybody? There are 7 other people waiting and wondering what has happened to you!

Same goes for looting - why would you roll "need" for an item that you can't use but someone else in the group really needs to have?

And then there is critizing teammates - yes, sometimes it's needed to tell people what they are doing wrong, but screaming insults at them is not the way to go!

 

One thing that ticks me off when something does go wrong is that the person most at fault will never apologize, but instead blame everyone else for the failure (tank sux, healer is fail, etc.) Is nobody able to take responsibility for their actions anymore?

 

As for vent, I do it when I raid in ops and when I pvp in pre-mades. Vent is very useful for that, no question!

But that's about all the chit-chat, profanity, and screaming 12-year olds that I can take.

[PrinceXiz]

I don't get this either. I am way late to the mmo game with this being the first mmo that I have taken seriously and it seems no one groups for these games and as a single player game for me this game is just not worth it.

[Trathis]

Reason #1, I grew to hate grouping was having to rely on other players to get stuff done. I have a life, unlike a lot of you who play mmo's. I'm not a kid. I'm not a college student. I'm a 33-year-old adult with a full-time job and a family. I enjoy mmo's a great deal. They're very relaxing and a nice break from reality. Originally when I started playing WoW, the whole grouping and interaction factor was the very best part of the game for me. I quickly came to learn that with a full plate, having to rely on that to get anything done is a huge waste of my time and a drag. Since I switched over to SWTOR I find that to be even moreso. FOR ME, grouping has it's places, those places being raids and such. Grouping for quests and the smaller stuff is just a humongous waste of my time. Having to run around searching and waiting for other players who need the same quests as I do is drab and pointless. And if you happen to be on a deader than dead server like all of my empire toons happen to be, grouping can be rather IMPOSSIBLE. By the way, BW REALLY needs to fix their server situation (make xfers available, like YESTERDAY!), but that's a whole other thread. Edited March 23, 2012 by Trathis

[DalrisThane]

Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane

[DarthKhaos]

Oh my goodness, tell me about it!! Even after people join our guild, we have a really hard time getting them to register on our website, use the vent server, and sign up for events on the raid calendar... I understand (sort of) that it's inconvenient to tab out of the game and set these things up, and of course it would be nice if this functionality were available in game. But given that it isn't at this time, I don't see why people won't use the tools that we've made available to them. And then these same people complain that we a) never talk to them (because they're not on vent) or b) never run flashpoints with them (because they didn't sign up on the raid calendar). I gotta say, it's extremely frustrating. Gaming used to feel like summer camp, and now it feels like the drive-through lane at the bank.

This is something I never understood.

 

"Hey you want to join our guild?"

"Sure. Sounds fun."

"Ok just go to this website and put in an application."

"..."

 

Do you know what's my idea of a guild application? Playing with me. So we can get to know each other. Either by running some group content or just hanging out.

[Dayln]

This is something I never understood.

 

"Hey you want to join our guild?"

"Sure. Sounds fun."

"Ok just go to this website and put in an application."

"..."

 

Do you know what's my idea of a guild application? Playing with me. So we can get to know each other. Either by running some group content or just hanging out.

 

Yep

 

Never join a guild that accepts anyone that applies, that just means no standards at all

 

Join a group you have played with, ask about their guild, do a flashpoint with them etc

 

Remember that you are checking them out, as they check you out.

 

A guild should be a group of like minded players

[Cerion]

So, I only use Mumble when necessary, and I type in chat channels the rest of the time. It's relaxing for me, which makes it fun, which allows me to do things like chatting in character. That's what MMORPGs used to be about, before the "grist mill" approach of so many MMOs.

 

 

I know...I dislike groups/guilds that INSIST on using voice chat. You always have the dude playing the female avatar that is just...well, wrong and immersive breaking, haha. I'm fine with a guy playing a female toon. I do it all the time. But when you have that deep basey voice, or a cracking pubescent boy's voice coming from the female avatar...it destroys all immersion.

[sjmc]

I know...I dislike groups/guilds that INSIST on using voice chat.

What we could use are some voice emotes recorded in your character's voice. A few things like "need a heal", "new enemies incoming", "target left/right/middle", "how about a cigarette break after the next battle" Edited March 23, 2012 by sjmc

[JacenHallis]

Apologies if this has been said, but I don't want to read 83 pages on this topic.

 

It's not that people hate grouping. Some do, sure, but that's always been the case. The fact is that those of us who were in college when EQ came out in 1999 now have jobs, families, and a number of other commitments that take precedence over gaming. So, when we log in, we want to be able to actually do something and not have to sit around waiting for a few like-minded people to come along.

 

We still enjoy grouping. We love it. But, sometimes life doesn't allow for us to commit to a group for a long period of time. This is also why I believe every class should be able to solo. Doing content alone is infinitely preferable to not doing content because you require a group.

 

In TOR specifically, one reason I prefer to solo non-group content is because I want to experience a class story for the first time with my character--not someone else's. I also like having my companions out for their comments (and affection gains). I do like social points, though, and I lament the fact that it's a lot harder to get them now than it was back in December.

 

MMOs are so mainstream now that developers need to cater to all playstyles. Solo players need to have content, as do group players, raiders, PvPers, and so on. Without all of these, a game may not necessarily fail, but it will have a smaller niche than it otherwise could have.

Edited March 23, 2012 by JacenHallis