SWTOR vs SWG

[Roobix]

the crafting and trading systems, the game had a much better dynamic especially with the randomness of crafting criticals and the fact that the best stuff was player made. I LOVED the mining system which could potentially provide you with some epic crafting materials, i truly believe that this game could benefit from taking a leaf out of that particular model. There were one or two awesome armour makers and the economy worked around them beautifully. IMO, introduce proper crafting focus and tone down the raiding requirments.

[ZionHalcyon]

What if SWG 2 came out, and it was sandbox 2.0, basically redefining the way sandbox games work, ship, city, lightsaber creation is all still there, but expanded, sort of like EVE Online, the amount of freedom players have in that game is just out of this world, if they made a SWG 2 game with similar features i would play it in a heartbeat, i already wish this game was more like SWG and an SWG 2 would be a dream come true for me.

 

We get it. You're still in love with your dead abusive husband called SWG.

 

Break the cycle.

[Dego_Locc]

 

I'm sorry you don't seem to like it. I'm VERY sorry that you remember SWG with a fondness it doesn't deserve. It was a very BORING game. Nothing to do after the first few months.

 

 

Compared to what? This game?!

 

It hasn't even been a "few months" and there are more underwhelmed, disappointed unhappy people than there was when SWG launched. It would appear, to me at least, someone who has wittnessed both launches first hand.

 

You have "MMO street cred" so to speak?, Well them almost simply must have a level 50, and if you pvp THEN you prolly have a bit of BM by now. And you probably have at least one other alt I would imagine...Can you honestly tell me, IF YOU ARE, at that point in the game. Can you look any of us here in the eyes so to speak and wholeheartedly admit, that you don't find this games linear repetitiveness, or lack of an endgame simply mind numbingly boring at best at this point?

 

I know we all have our opinions but anyone who has been at endgame for a while or has tried to level other characters, and has played SWG pre cu nge, with so much to do.... Has to at least know somewhere in the back of their mind that this game is no where near as in depth with things to do compared to this game.

 

I would think anyhow...

 

And if you're not at that point in the game yet, you will soon be and then maybe you will see what all the complaining is about.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Dego_Locc

[ZionHalcyon]

It wasn't dead, it just lacked the casual mainstream playerbase. And imo tbh, that was a GOOD thing.

 

It's all a matter of opinion though. I just prefer games that take years to figure everything out, vs. weeks after launch the whole game being known for the linear cookie cutter that it is. But that's just me, I'm sure a casual player from WOW would disagree, as he is entitled too.

 

But hate it or love it, SWG did some really innovative things MMO-wise.

 

Without a doubt it did.

 

But when you can log in, not find any raid groups, piddle around trying to figure out what you want to do, and finally log out feeling like you really accomplished nothing and now realize FOUR HOURS HAVE PASSED, that is just plain ugly, ugly, ugly.

 

SWG had such great promise, but it was really nothing more than a very expensive systems demo. It had no meat to keep people there, which is why it failed.

[Dego_Locc]

 

But when you can log in, not find any raid groups, piddle around trying to figure out what you want to do, and finally log out feeling like you really accomplished nothing and now realize FOUR HOURS HAVE PASSED, that is just plain ugly, ugly, ugly.

That's how my endgame dailes feel in THIS game. And yes, it's ugly.

 

 

SWG had such great promise, but it was really nothing more than a very expensive systems demo. It had no meat to keep people there, which is why it failed.

 

I think if they would have addressed balance issues in another way besides the dumbing down NGE, then it would have been a much better game for a longer run. Still would have never been successful because majority wins and most ppl are causal gamers sadly. I wish they made more hardcore mmo's and it wasn't about money, but what a dreamworld would I be living in then.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Dego_Locc

[SeanC]

Compared to what? This game?!

 

It hasn't even been a "few months" and there are more underwhelmed, disappointed unhappy people than there was when SWG launched. It would appear, to me at least, someone who has wittnessed both launches first hand.

 

You have "MMO street cred" so to speak?, Well them almost simply must have a level 50, and if you pvp THEN you prolly have a bit of BM by now. And you probably have at least one other alt I would imagine...Can you honestly tell me, IF YOU ARE, at that point in the game. Can you look any of us here in the eyes so to speak and wholeheartedly admit, that you don't find this games linear repetitiveness, or lack of an endgame simply mind numbingly boring at best at this point?

 

I know we all have our opinions but anyone who has been at endgame for a while or has tried to level other characters, and has played SWG pre cu nge, with so much to do.... Has to at least know somewhere in the back of their mind that this game is no where near as in depth with things to do compared to this game.

 

I would think anyhow...

 

And if you're not at that point in the game yet, you will soon be and then maybe you will see what all the complaining is about.

 

Then why did so many people complain on how there was nothing to do in SWG during that time? I agree with you to an extent the point your trying to make, but imo a reason why I feel that there was more to do during pre-cu and the cu was due to the fact that you dont have to rely on other people to do most end game content like you do in this game.

[ZionHalcyon]

That's how my endgame dailes feel in THIS game. And yes, it's ugly.

 

 

 

I think if they would have addressed balance issues in another way besides the dumbing down NGE, then it would have been a much better game for a longer run. Still would have never been successful because majority wins and most ppl are causal gamers sadly. I wish they made more hardcore mmo's and it wasn't about money, but what a dreamworld would I be living in then.

 

Roll a new toon, experience a new story. Easy endgame boredom cure.

[Dego_Locc]

Then why did so many people complain on how there was nothing to do in SWG during that time? I agree with you to an extent the point your trying to make, but imo a reason why I feel that there was more to do during pre-cu and the cu was due to the fact that you dont have to rely on other people to do most end game content like you do in this game.

 

I would have to dissagree, I think on the whole this game is more soloable than SWG. Aside from flashpoints but SWG had dungeons instead and you're right not all of them were group affairs.

 

But things like hunting Krayts took a mob of ppl in the beginning, and there is nothing like that in this game. The world bosses are a joke in this game. But that's just the tip of the iceberg in my argument about how linear it is and how bored I am starting to become with it.

[ZionHalcyon]

That's how my endgame dailes feel in THIS game. And yes, it's ugly.

 

 

 

I think if they would have addressed balance issues in another way besides the dumbing down NGE, then it would have been a much better game for a longer run. Still would have never been successful because majority wins and most ppl are causal gamers sadly. I wish they made more hardcore mmo's and it wasn't about money, but what a dreamworld would I be living in then.

 

You grossly miss the point. There was no compelling story, thus no game.

 

Star Wars is about going on a grand adventure and going through life and death situations that all have a star wars feel to them, on some grand advanture, where what you do MATTERS in the Star Wars universe.

 

People got bored because nothing they did MATTERED in SWG. There was no lasting impact. All you can really point to is Restuss, which was a desperate attempt to change the landscape, but they didn't follow up on that.

 

What story are you trying to tell in SWG? the story of how long it took to decorate your house with varactyl feathers? The story of how you went to a spaceport and spammed 'LFG!" for 3 hours before logging off? The story of how long it took you to check all your harvesters for material?

 

Like it or not, STORY is a crucial piece to the Star Wars saga, and Bioware got this right. SWG horribly dropped the ball.

[Dego_Locc]

Roll a new toon, experience a new story. Easy endgame boredom cure.

 

You edited out my point, I have alts, aside from the main class quests(which there is not a lot of and, not enough to purely level off of) The side quest are all the same old things over again. And add that to a linear themepark and BAM, you have a good formula for "gets-old-fast.

 

I know sandboxes can feel dull too wondering for 20 minutes, but if you think about it, it made it interesting, at least you probably took a different routes on said "second times around side quests", so it at least felt a "little"bit fresh leveling alts in SWG sandbox approach.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Dego_Locc

[Dego_Locc]

You grossly miss the point. There was no compelling story, thus no game.

 

Star Wars is about going on a grand adventure and going through life and death situations that all have a star wars feel to them, on some grand advanture, where what you do MATTERS in the Star Wars universe.

 

People got bored because nothing they did MATTERED in SWG. There was no lasting impact. All you can really point to is Restuss, which was a desperate attempt to change the landscape, but they didn't follow up on that.

 

What story are you trying to tell in SWG? the story of how long it took to decorate your house with varactyl feathers? The story of how you went to a spaceport and spammed 'LFG!" for 3 hours before logging off? The story of how long it took you to check all your harvesters for material?

 

Like it or not, STORY is a crucial piece to the Star Wars saga, and Bioware got this right. SWG horribly dropped the ball.

Oh I do see your point. But from an MMO standpoint, what other MMO had an epic story? It just goes to show that epic stories and V/O and dialog might make a good single player RPG, it does not mean it makes a good MMO.

 

SWG was a lot more immersive on the whole compared to this game. This game's world seems fake and non existent.

 

In my opinion of course.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Dego_Locc

[ZionHalcyon]

Oh I do see your point. But from an MMO standpoint, what other MMO had an epic story? It just goes to show that epic stories and V/O and dialog might make a good single player RPG, it does not mean it makes a good MMO.

 

In my opinion of course.

 

The difference is this is Star Wars - people expect it.

 

And I came from DDO - there is an epic story there as well - several actually. The thing is they are all incomplete, but you can see what they are building to.

[Saos]

(Pre-Cu)

 

Ever visit... ?

 

Rori? Dead.

Talus? Dead.

Endor? Dead.

Lok? Dead.

Yavin IV? Dead.

 

I loved the sandbox aspect of SWG too, and I miss it alot. But the vast majority of player activity was centered on Corellia, Naboo and Tatooine. You go anywhere else in the game and maybe bump into someone else every dozen minutes.

 

What I do miss..

 

Pick-and-choose profressions. 32 professions and no one restricting me from pairing CH with anything I wanted.

 

Massive scale planets. Though it may seem otherwise from my statement above, I very much enjoyed this aspect. The galaxy felt like a galaxy, but admittedly I have always loved sandbox games to theme park games.

 

In-depth space combat. TOR's space combat is a laughable side game compared to the depth of SWG's JTL. You could spend HOURS outfitting your ship just as you want it, you could spend WEEKS or MONTHS leveling a toon who could supply your space habit.

 

Player housing/community. You mean I can pick from a dozen or so different house styles/sizes and place it wherever I please on all these different planets? The hours I burned searching for cool spots to throw my house and decorating it. Unreal, and honestly a ton of fun. Gave me a place in the galaxy that was my own, not a bland ship that everyone else who rolled my class has.

 

Jedi grind. Do not miss the alpha class, but I do miss the original exlusivity.

 

What I do not miss...

 

SOE. I have never had so much disgust for a company in my life. I wont even elaborate because its been said, and if you lived through the CU and the NGE you know exactly what I'm referencing.

 

Unbalanced PvP. Flip-side of the profession coin, while I love the freedom the game gave... in total honesty, there was NO CHANCE they could have ever balanced that system.

 

Questing. Go to mission terminal, find two missions in same direction. Drive there. Bash the beasts/people. Bash the lair/base. Drive back. Repeat. Barf.

 

 

 

There is much more for this list, but I gotta be to work in 27 mins. Gotta run.

 

TLDR: SWG had its strengths. So does TOR (didnt get to them really)

Edited February 27, 2012 by Saos

[SeanC]

I would have to dissagree, I think on the whole this game is more soloable than SWG. Aside from flashpoints but SWG had dungeons instead and you're right not all of them were group affairs.

 

But things like hunting Krayts took a mob of ppl in the beginning, and there is nothing like that in this game. The world bosses are a joke in this game. But that's just the tip of the iceberg in my argument about how linear it is and how bored I am starting to become with it.

 

I'm still going to disagree with you. How long did it take before people could easily solo krayt dragons? It wasn't to long when everyone got comp armor and started to solo them easily. Nothing during the pre-cu required a full group. I easily solo most of the content during pre-cu and cu for that matter. Hell the nge content was pretty soloable except for heroics which required only 4 people to do most of them. Most of the pve content in swg was a joke anyhow and wasn't the much of a focus to begin with.

 

I just feel the only reason why swg feels that there were more to do is the group reliance isn't as bad as this and that end game content main focus is fp, operations, and warzone pvp. Grant it, swg did have other features to keep people interested, but for the most part it didn't require other people to do it with you unless you wanted them too.

 

If you think about it though, if the nge didn't have those features, swg and this game would be pretty similar.

[AshenK]

You grossly miss the point. There was no compelling story, thus no game.

 

Star Wars is about going on a grand adventure and going through life and death situations that all have a star wars feel to them, on some grand advanture, where what you do MATTERS in the Star Wars universe.

 

People got bored because nothing they did MATTERED in SWG. There was no lasting impact. All you can really point to is Restuss, which was a desperate attempt to change the landscape, but they didn't follow up on that.

 

What story are you trying to tell in SWG? the story of how long it took to decorate your house with varactyl feathers? The story of how you went to a spaceport and spammed 'LFG!" for 3 hours before logging off? The story of how long it took you to check all your harvesters for material?

 

Like it or not, STORY is a crucial piece to the Star Wars saga, and Bioware got this right. SWG horribly dropped the ball.

Thank you! And this!

 

A friend of mine put it so well about SWG and this was right around the Jump to Lightspeed launch. We had been talking about MMO's and I asked him why he played SWG for a month then went back to Everquest and he said it so well. "SWG doesn't feel like a Star Wars game, it feels more like Raph Koster's Space Colonization Sim: Online." And he was right!

 

Look at other Star Wars game or other MMO's based on big name IP's. X-Wing makes you feel like the big hero as you get to do the Death Star Trench run. Dark Forces had you at one point getting into a boss fight with Boba Fett. Jedi Knight and Jedi Outcast had some great Saber duels. KOTOR 1 and 2 I don't think I even need to say anything. Even Empire at War gave you an epic feel to things when playing. And really I look at other big name IP MMO's and look at what they have done, LOTOR throws you in a good story from the get go. Age of Conan has a good storyline that I felt if they had done more with it the game would have had more people sticking with it.

 

SWG? A reviewer from GameSpy said it "You won't be playing Princess Leia, you are going to be playing her dress maker." TOR really gets the feel of Star Wars down a lot more. SWG Pre-CU? I think it would have been good if it had not been a Star Wars game.

[Goodmonson]

Player Houses and cities = Good

 

Abandon Player cities = Bad(And most were)

 

Crafting = Composite Armor Only Composite Armor with only one look. That or your robes for Jedi. All other armor was dress up doll stuff. Of no use whatsoever.

 

Stun Baton is better than a Light Saber.(Only in SWG)

 

Combat Medics Nuking a planet because there side was losing a guild battle?

 

Only one Crystal Was the best Crystal and everyone had it in there sabers.

 

There are many things that SWG did good and badly. Mostly it was good for its social aspect. You could play Star Wars Sims. Most everything else was broken and never fixed. They never could get an AT AT to turn. I loved it when this 40 story thing just freaked out and got stuck on a rock and started rotating in place like mad until it killed everyone's PING and you had to leave the area or the city until it despawned.

 

A few things that would be nice that SWG had that SWTOR doesn't is the Social Classes. Non Combat classes and Server Events on the regular. It was nice when Vader showed up to destroy your town.

 

Active Bounties for Player Characters on PVP and PVE servers.

 

Class Specific Daily's would be nice too.

 

Many other little things to make the game look and feel more dynamic.

 

But to say one was better because of this that and the other is just silly. They are 2 Different Games.

 

One team has a competent useful support team. The other Finally address all the Major Issues its game had right before it closed its doors. More has been done to balance play since launch is SWTOR than SOE did up until NGE.

 

Do any of you remember having your loot disappear from your house and or inventory. I do. Did you ever get any of it back let alone a response. I never did.

 

Or that month my Jedi Spent in his house because a Krayt Dragon spawned right in front of the house and I couldn't get out. No one would come and get me because I had to hide my location and live in sticks. If not I would have been Permikilled by Bounty Hunters and I would have to spend another 6 months making a Jedi. I couldn't afford the Permanent weapon and armor damage it would have taken me to get away from that thing. Didn't matter how many I times I called and email SOE that stupid thing sat there all day every day for a month.

 

This is 2 different games in 2 different eras with 100% nothing to do with each other. Star Wars is its only commonality.

 

Lack of Endgame Content. They already added another High level Flashpoint within its first 2 months of launch. As far as raiding is concerned has everyone done everything on Nightmare mode yet?

 

PvP End game. Name one MMO that has gotten PVP truely right other than Eve. Maybe there are ones you like more than others. But none of them have it right. A true equal PVP experience can only be done on games with limited player classes and no specialization. See (FPSers and Starcraft.) Everyone has to have the same abilities at all times. Its just how well they use them. MMOs by there nature are not set up like that. Now that BW has seen that there is a vested interest in PVP they have stated that they are going to put more work into it. Give it more than 2 months.

 

This game has everything I want and has the potential to offer so much more. I just dont expect it to happen over night. Right now I am happy with my Characters and will be rolling up another to see a whole new story. I have 2 left on Empire to complete and 4 more on Republic to complete. Thats a lot of gaming time I have waiting for me.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Goodmonson

[NasherUK]

SWG was a lot of nice ideas that never really worked properly. The game was full of bugs, severly unbalanced and had a horrible combat system. The only thing it had going for it was player built/owned towns and vendors. SWG had a "lot" of content at first glance, but 95% of it was either useless or broken. Leveling anything was also extremely tedious.

 

What they set out to do needed some of the best developers in the world and many more years to make it all work. Sadly, there was only SOE, who are crap.

 

What SWG did have was a very open world and no artificial boundries between imperial and rebel players like TOR has, allowing for dynamic PVP at any time and any where. Also stuff like bounty hunting players was a lot of fun (when it actually worked). It did have more of an RPG feel where as TOR is more focused on action.

Edited February 27, 2012 by NasherUK

[Anishor]

SWTOR has WAY more content at launch than lazy SOE devs managed to develop in eight years.

I used to love SWG for it's community and social side, not the game. Whenever i came back after taking a break i was coming back to my friends, never for the game.

The last months of SWG when we were practically flooded with content, proved more than anything how extremely lazy SWG devs were all those years.

 

There was a lot of content in SWG however most if it was to enable players to create the Greatest Story in Star Wars ever told, theirs. The dev team for the last few years was quite small, and managed to extend or create new systems. Don't ever call them lazy. It is insulting.

 

Atmospheric Flight and Combat

Storyteller

Chronicler and Costume Systems

Player City System

Vehicular Combat ( Hoth )

City Invasions

A true GCW Meta Game

Jump to Lightspeed - best expansion for an MMO Ever.

 

Honestly there was only one thing that was arguably bad in SWG, and that was the ground combat, however what most are missing is that that only made up a moderately small portion of the game that people enjoyed.

 

The Sandbox's time is coming again ( or more appropriately the 'virtual world game') . I believe TOR will be the last big budget adventure park MMO we'll see. If you don't believe compare how much more 'worldly' GW2 is gonna be compared to its successor.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Anishor

[Yescek]

There was a lot of content in SWG however most if it was to enable players to create the Greatest Story in Star Wars ever told, theirs. The dev team for the last few years was quite small, and managed to extend or create new systems. Don't ever call them lazy. It is insulting.

 

Atmospheric Flight and Combat

Storyteller

Chronicler and Costume Systems

Player City System

Vehicular Combat ( Hoth )

City Invasions

A true GCW Meta Game

Jump to Lightspeed - best expansion for an MMO Ever.

 

Honestly there was only one thing that was arguably bad in SWG, and that was the ground combat, however what most are missing is that that only made up a moderately small portion of the game that people enjoyed.

 

The Sandbox's time is coming again ( or more appropriately the 'virtual world game') . I believe TOR will be the last big budget adventure park MMO we'll see.

 

Anishor! Sup bro! Haven't heard from you, any of the other rebs, or any of the 42nd in what seems like an eternity! (Since Wezz shut down the Imp vent)

 

Also, QFE.

[AlmightyGrain]

SWG2 is never coming out, forget about that game. It wasn't good and that's why it isn't alive anymore.

 

Just because you personally enjoy a style of game, doesn't mean the vast majority of mmo players do.

 

You just have to accept that a sandbox MMO doesn't work, especially when the vast majority of players started with World of Warcraft.

 

 

This game will flop and won't live half as long as SWG. SWG 2 would have lived twice as long. Sry SWG was too complicated for you.

[Pirana]

This game will flop and won't live half as long as SWG.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. I originally gave TOR a 3-4 year life span, it may not make it that long. Although, I really do hope I'm wrong, as this is the only Star Wars mmo on the market.

 

Regarding the thread topic, the adage apples and oranges comes to mind.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Pirana

[psandak]

Something I am noticing is that people are comparing SWG "well after launch" (talking years here) to SWTOR "at launch" (it's only been online for tree months). It's apples and oranges. If anyone can actually remember, think about what SWG was like at launch and compare that SWG to SWTOR. Then and ONLY then will you convince me that SWG was better.

 

Fact of the matter is that this is the first MMO I have ever bought at launch, so I cannot do this.

Edited February 27, 2012 by psandak

[mefit]

This game will flop and won't live half as long as SWG. SWG 2 would have lived twice as long. Sry SWG was too complicated for you.

 

Yea sure Complicated , thats it !

The game flopped , SWG2 is nowhere to be planned or even coming out . SOE is making money off CloneWars game that has out sold and has more active accounts that SWG ever had.

 

This game won't flop and with over a years content already made and with plans when and how to install it into the game , no way is this game dieing anytime soon,

 

Most MMOs see a drop point in players after the first month, even WoW lost over 50% of its accounts after its first month. Those are shopper MMO players who move around. Some will come back and others will not , that is life .

Unlike SWG days , there is more MMOs coming out and out current today than even thought of back then. SWG had little competition and could not make it due to lack of thrills it brought, not to mention that it had worse Graphics than EQ1 made it hard to get into when games like WoW / FF11 / Lineage2 were out or coming out with far better graphics. Not to mention more adavanced gameplay over SWG even at its end.

 

In the end the MMO community is ruled by players and profit and SWG had nowhere enough of either . It wasn't due to anything more than lack of creativity it had .

We should thank SWG for 1 thing though , it did show that people wanted to play a StarWars game, just wasn't SWG people wanted .

 

KOTOR was one of the best StarWars game to date , and Lucas was happy to allow Bioware the right to make the new MMO . Since this game has came out it has broken records on ammount of players to total opening profits .

 

You cannot compare SWG and TOR , SWG is not even close to the level of TOR !

[WindywaIker]

SWG the worst MMO to ever enter tha market !

"CloneWars" Multiplayer Game has more Subs than SWG ever had ! Just pointing out the Facts!

 

In the end TOR beats SWG in everything , because nothing SWG had brought in real subs !

TOR Has more SUBS than SWG ever had

Period!

 

SWG was a DeadGame from the start !

Deadgame is a DEADGAME !

 

Obviously TOR has more subscribers the MMO community now is much bigger then it was in 03/04 So duh, of course theres more people.

[Spymaster]

I actually like both games a lot. I know SWG kept my playing for a long time, and I'm not sure that this game will do that unless they fix the PvP end game. But this game still has a lot of potential in my opinion.

 

I just wish they would take some of the really great things about SWG, clean them up, and use them here, instead of taking so many of their ideas from WoW.