"X beat Y and Y beat Z so clearly X would beat Z." You know, the problem with those kinds of deductions in anything is that you are substituting information with assumption. It's pointless when my friends do it during football season and it's probably far more pointless when you do it about SW lore. This is all related to the Alpha class discussion. But that's been settled for years now with this game, the Jedi/Sith you can roll in SWTOR are roughly equivalent in power to the Troopers or Agents you can roll. Yes, this conflicts directly with the image of force users presented in the SW films and other media, but it cannot be reconciled with non-force using classes in an MMO otherwise. You must accept some level of suspension of disbelief in the name of fairness. And so, by extension in this game, we also have to accept the same when dealing with NPC's. What happens when Bioware spends time and resources creating nothing other than class fluff (your personalized bosses with their own dialogue, fights and voiceacting), so that you can feel your smuggler is of proportional power, and then my Marauder gets steamrolled by him 20 times in a row in PvP?... You didn't beat Malgus! I did! Clearly I am more powerful and should have won! Just a few more thoughts for the thread... Han Solo was nothing more than an average smuggler who as fate would have it, became involved with some very serious players in galactic events. Eventually he would prove to have something of a conscience and ended up getting more and more involved with said people. Nothing I've ever read or seen states Solo was even above-average in his abilities... he had a quicker draw than Greedo and held his own against Stormtroopers. That's it. Anakin, while having the potential to be one of the strongest Force users to have ever lived, lost a great deal of his power when Kenobi beat him and left him to burn on Mustafar. Sidious realized this, it's why he spent a decade or more grooming and manipulating Anakin, it's why he sacrificed a Sith Lord who was renowned as one of the greatest duelists in the galaxy for him, and it's why eventually he ended up over Endor fully prepared to discard this man in favor of his barely-trained force sensitive son. Vader's power had greatly diminished, and while it was sufficient to finish enforcement of Order 66 and still be useful, it wasn't enough to surpass his master and take the reigns for himself as the Rule of Two dictates. Vader became a tool operating on a limited lifespan awaiting either death or replacement.

SciFi is my preferred genre for an MMO and Star Wars in particular. But I will not continue paying to play a game solely for this reason. The folks at SOE can attest to this. Believe me when I tell you I am probably one of the biggest Star Wars nerd you will ever meet, but I can't keep milking alt's forever. SWTOR is in dire need of more end-game content and if things do not dramatically improve by the time GW2 drops I will be out of here.

Nope.

I'm down with SIS Operative/Imperial Soldier, but this route should have been taken before launch and Smuggler/BH turned into unique faction specific classes. But apparently 1 unique class per faction is too hard to balance.

Well.. That's quite handy. Thank you. Nerd rage fading. faaaading.

Either that or fix this auto-cover roll garbage. I'm tired of positioning my toon perfectly in Huttball to CC an enemy carrier only to activate my cover ability BEFORE I can use my actual ability and have my toon roll 15-20ft away from where I need to be because some magical green cover sweet-spot is nearby. Or when I'm up on the catwalks with a perfect view, ready to start raining down death and destruction and my cover-roll takes me UNDEARNEATH the catwalk directly next to a lovely pit of poison.

And here I thought allowing Pureblood smugglers and Force-Choking Bounty Hunter's was the April Fools joke.

Best idea since sliced bread. Signed.

Appearantly you missed this ^, by chaosvernon. The sentence becomes remarkably accurate without that word in there. Every race/class combination uses the same voice actor anyway and I believe the majority of unplayable races in game speak basic at some point (or at least can from a lore standpoint), so that pretty much demolishes the "new voice work" argument. There simply would be none. New voice work with the model that exists only comes in to play with new classes, which this discussion was not about. Do you honestly believe they created different cinematics for every race/detail/gear option we have in game? Do you know how many thousands of combinations you are talking about just with what we have in game? If a company like Bioware could not figure out a more cost effective way than that of creating those cinematics, I doubt we would have seen this game to launch.

So. Bioware said "new" races, but nothing really new is evident from the information released so far, rather the release of old faction exclusive races to the opposite side. What is it exactly? Because "new" races gives off the impression as something never seen before (in game) rather than what we seem to be getting. Don't get me wrong... its something. But when I purchase a previously owned car, while it may be new to me it still isn't a "new" car.

So instead of typing "adds" in my flashpoint (notice what I did there? ) when they begin beating my face in, desperately trying to get the DPS (yes. DPS) to wake up... I should type in "backup for the boss! backup for the boss!" and then watch inevitably as the tank begins backing the boss away for unknown reasons? Most of these terms did not originate with WoW. But you attribute them (as many other people do) with the game because of its popularity. I recognize this may well have been where you were first introduced to the majority of these terms, but it's widely used lingo and not nearly as cumbersome as most of what you suggest, and by no means the origin of all your pet peeves here. It's fine. ..Now... We are one short for the 4 man, so call your tank pet and lets roll.

I don't disagree. Seems pretty sound.

I agree on the first part, but the second is ridiculous. You probably wouldn't care much about an ability obviously doing damage before the animation shows it if you didn't play that class I imagine though.. The instant damage is what the ability is supposed to produce not the delayed reaction of Project. What they need to do is remove it entirely in favor of some sort of 'Force Energy Burst' ala Satele trailer (but shorter) style ability that would make sense to be as quick as shock.

@ OP 100% agree. Getting tired of diluting class uniqueness in this game already. We now will be sharing class specific abilities and races, the game needs less of this.

Trooper = Boss. I expect a backpack that sticks out a good 3 feet though. Consular = Boring. Nice Ugg boots though. Smuggler = Meh. Knight = When did I form Megazord? Bounty Hunter = Boss. As always. (could do w/a set that lacks 8 layers added to the front of the chest piece though) Inquisitor = Marvel super-villain. Agent = Why do I have the same new armor as Smugglers? Warrior = Marvel super-villain.

Take your scenario and switch it to the Imperial side. " Force Sensitive: Ok. So this whole Sith thing isn't for me, I'm just gonna take my super-powered, force choking self and head out to become a Bounty Hunter. Lates. Everyone else at the Sith Academy and in Sith space: Yeah... uh... that's not gonna work for us. You see, this guy who is like our Emperor... He says you kinda have to die if you don't stay." Now every player-controlled BH/Agent gets the opportunity to use these (supposedly) exclusive Force abilities? That's a total disregard for the lore Bioware themselves crafted. You point to Aura Sing, as if her story is commonplace and that background had nothing to do with her being unique or rare. Just because you disagree with someone's viewpoint does not make their view any less valid, so you should probably restrain yourself from insinuating others are failing to use their brains because they disagree. Otherwise you look like a child in the school yard. I only just learned about the race part of this update. Much too consumed by nerd-rage right now to comment.

That's funny. I have played BH to 41 and 25, as well as Agent to 21... all well past Nal Hutta, yet I have trouble recalling where it is that you hint Force Sensitivity from? Since you fail to list any sort of tangible sources for that claim, I will go ahead and list mine... Multiple places/quests throughout the game say directly that Force Sensitives within the Empire are sent to Korriban or be trained as Sith, or they are executed. Direct reference = Cave 52 (or whatever) quest on Balmorra for Imperial players. Yes. I literally meant every third rendered 'person' within the entirety of the game. One-third is an exact mathematic percentage based on simulated data. Are you kidding? It was a random guestimation (at best) of a percentage that I pulled out of my $@#. How is it that evaded you? In reference to... When just a few lines prior... ^ Just as much of a generalization as what I said. So... stop speaking for other people, right? Unless, you have accounted for the amount of replies in this thread as representative of the community as a whole, and tallied up those opinions to produce a majority or minority that is sufficient to make such a claim. And you did, right? /sarcasm.

According to Bioware's own lore in-game, the Empire forces ALL Force Sensitives (regardless of strength) to go to Korriban for training as Sith, otherwise they are executed. Bioware added that into the game. Now every third BH or Agent seen is going to be Force Sensitive to the point of throwing around Force Choke/Lightning like its nothing? We wont even go into the fact that these are supposed to be exclusive abilities for powerful Force Users who would have had to spend years perfecting the ability into a viable offensive tool. Now its just *poof* "All right! My Agent can now throw lightning bolts!" It's utterly pointless to put in the game, so WHY even bother then when the RP/Lore enthusiasts of the community generally recognize what a poor idea it is?

Warcraft is starting to look more appealing, at least until the achievement system allows my Rogue to summon an army of undead minions.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/09/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-old-republics-future/ A brief rundown of how the system works: whenever you hit major milestones with your characters (complete an act in your main storyline, hit max level, reach a high Valor rank in PvP, accumulate a ton of Dark Side points, or max out companion affection) you’ll unlock something awesome for every character you ever make on that server. Hit 50 on your Zabrak Sith Warrior? Every one of your characters now has a super-powered Force Choke ability (not usable in WarZones or raids) and can cast the Sith Warrior’s group buff, and you can make a Zabrak of any class type, among other things. .... I'm sorry... what? Why the H@ is my Bounty Hunter able to use Force Choke? Why is this even necessary? Pick one iconic skill for each class/spec and assign a "super-powered, solo PvE only" version of it to them, why do we have to share class abilities in such a brain-dead manner? " My Bounty Hunter is now Force Sensitive! But he only knows how to Force Choke. " @Bioware. Are you giving away Force Lightning as well? If my amazingly-late bloomer of a grown adult Bounty Hunter can instantly obtain Force Powers on par with some of the strongest Sith, why not go all out? Screw anything unique about a class, lets just let everyone pick and choose how their abilities look, regardless of mechanics, RP or lore consequences. I want a toon that heals with lightning and damages enemies by shooting green goo from a flock of angry little hover-droids. I love the other changes with this coming patch, but this is just... a pointless, flagrant middle-finger to anyone who cares about RP or Star Wars lore.

Mac users are concerned about paying $120'ish to run the game? Hopefully you guys never find out how ridiculously overpriced those mac's where in the first place.

Playable? Nautolan Catharr Duros Togruta Weequay Longshot... Sephi http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sephi Thats all I got for now, but would be nice additions all around, even if through the legacy system.

(Pre-Cu) Ever visit... ? Rori? Dead. Talus? Dead. Endor? Dead. Lok? Dead. Yavin IV? Dead. I loved the sandbox aspect of SWG too, and I miss it alot. But the vast majority of player activity was centered on Corellia, Naboo and Tatooine. You go anywhere else in the game and maybe bump into someone else every dozen minutes. What I do miss.. Pick-and-choose profressions. 32 professions and no one restricting me from pairing CH with anything I wanted. Massive scale planets. Though it may seem otherwise from my statement above, I very much enjoyed this aspect. The galaxy felt like a galaxy, but admittedly I have always loved sandbox games to theme park games. In-depth space combat. TOR's space combat is a laughable side game compared to the depth of SWG's JTL. You could spend HOURS outfitting your ship just as you want it, you could spend WEEKS or MONTHS leveling a toon who could supply your space habit. Player housing/community. You mean I can pick from a dozen or so different house styles/sizes and place it wherever I please on all these different planets? The hours I burned searching for cool spots to throw my house and decorating it. Unreal, and honestly a ton of fun. Gave me a place in the galaxy that was my own, not a bland ship that everyone else who rolled my class has. Jedi grind. Do not miss the alpha class, but I do miss the original exlusivity. What I do not miss... SOE. I have never had so much disgust for a company in my life. I wont even elaborate because its been said, and if you lived through the CU and the NGE you know exactly what I'm referencing. Unbalanced PvP. Flip-side of the profession coin, while I love the freedom the game gave... in total honesty, there was NO CHANCE they could have ever balanced that system. Questing. Go to mission terminal, find two missions in same direction. Drive there. Bash the beasts/people. Bash the lair/base. Drive back. Repeat. Barf. There is much more for this list, but I gotta be to work in 27 mins. Gotta run. TLDR: SWG had its strengths. So does TOR (didnt get to them really)

This is a joke. I can see you have no idea how to play your toon. Are you seriously fighting all 8 of those opponents on your own? Do you expect Bioware to balance PvP so you can 1 v 8? I see where your problem here is. Every class has its share of "OH S@#T" abilities. Learning when/where/how best to use them is key to making an impact in Huttball. If strategy escapes you, fine. Get better, or stop whining. I get knocked back into pits and CC'd beyond my ability to break on occasion too, 3/4 of the time this is my own fault for not paying attention to my surroundings. 1/4 of the time its because I'm being focused/blew my CC removal AND blew my utilities. You are making NO sense what so ever. A tie means one team is "colossally dominant" over the other? Pretty sure you are thinking of 6-0. I gotta call troll, unless the utmost basic of mathematics honestly escapes you. The map is fun and strategic. Stop crying about it on the forums and learn when/where is best to pop your CD's and magically Huttball will get much more fun.

Huttball is the best thing this game has going PvP-wise currently. WTB at least 2 more Huttball maps Bioware. Do it!