yinten Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 There are things that NEED to be done right now and there are things that NEED to be done later. There are a lot of things that NEED to be done right now before we get those logs. I want them just as bad as every one else but its just not in the top tier priority atm. Its up there, but just not what has to be done right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufutiz Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 There are things that NEED to be done right now and there are things that NEED to be done later. There are a lot of things that NEED to be done right now before we get those logs. I want them just as bad as every one else but its just not in the top tier priority atm. Its up there, but just not what has to be done right now. the problem is, combat logs are something that people can fully expect to be functionally included in the game right at launch. It's a farce they went live without them really. Yes the game has a multitude of major issues but basic stuff like this cannot be excused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollcageuk Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It's amazing how many ignorant posters there are. Firstly, If they add logs it will in time become mandatory for everyone to use them. As my earlier posts detailed, with logs they can make the game harder, much harder than you could without them. It will become impossible for a raid group to kill nightmare bosses without them. So first point is, they are not optional if you want to raid. And secondly, L2P. If your tank losses focus to a DPS then tell he tank to pull harde or the dps to calm down. All the things you want to learn you can do by playing the freaking game. A lot of posters saying they need it for X and for y, are pure and simple lazy. They want easy street learning. I don't want to learn, I want some to tell me what I have to do. The fun in beating a boss is learning how they work, the triggers, the timers and the agro levels. You want a meter to tell you all this? Are you really that bad a player? I love how you are the ones accusing of us in the No camp of being bad players and the fact is you are such a bad player you can't even work out how to control agro, a rule 101 of groups and raiding. L2P! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yinten Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 the problem is, combat logs are something that people can fully expect to be functionally included in the game right at launch. It's a farce they went live without them really. Yes the game has a multitude of major issues but basic stuff like this cannot be excused. Yes and its something that needs to be done, but will have to wait behind other high priority needs. We already know that all other MMOs have this feature and we all expect it to be in this one soon. But I dont know what crying about why it wasn't in at launch is going to achieve. BW already acknowledged that it isnt in the game and its something that will be added soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jederix Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Just once I'd like to see a thread that is actually about the #1 biggest issue (but since that is subjective, it's never going to happen). We can dream though, right? Oh, and a combat log would be a nice tool, but it is by no means necessary. It's coming, they've said as much, so that is good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Not sure why you find the facts so funny. Sure players can QQ once there are combat logs, but in the end the Devs decide what they will change or keep the same. But you cant change the players cause u dont know whos udnerperforming in your group. So far biggest challenge in nightmare mode operations comes from the fact that you cant know in any possible way whos DPS is good and who is bad or mediocre. Aslong as there is no way to measure whos bad and whos not, all content has to be this easy that basically anyone can clear it. Edited February 23, 2012 by Forsbacka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterKayote Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) It's amazing how many ignorant posters there are. Firstly, If they add logs it will in time become mandatory for everyone to use them. As my earlier posts detailed, with logs they can make the game harder, much harder than you could without them. It will become impossible for a raid group to kill nightmare bosses without them. So first point is, they are not optional if you want to raid. And secondly, L2P. If your tank losses focus to a DPS then tell he tank to pull harde or the dps to calm down. All the things you want to learn you can do by playing the freaking game. A lot of posters saying they need it for X and for y, are pure and simple lazy. They want easy street learning. I don't want to learn, I want some to tell me what I have to do. The fun in beating a boss is learning how they work, the triggers, the timers and the agro levels. You want a meter to tell you all this? Are you really that bad a player? I love how you are the ones accusing of us in the No camp of being bad players and the fact is you are such a bad player you can't even work out how to control agro, a rule 101 of groups and raiding. L2P! ^^This^^ Im still waiting for someone to actually counter the fact that people are clearing this games content without them. Its like saying "OMG I/we need a calculator for this test!" when the entire class is doing fine without it. Edited February 23, 2012 by MasterKayote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jederix Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 If your DPS is sub-par, you should be removed? That is the point? If bosses die, who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) ^^This^^ Im still waiting for someone to actually counter the fact that people are clearing this games content without them. Its like saying "OMG I we need a calculator for this test!" when the entire class is doing fine without it. You dont need it for content atm cause its easier than we seen in years, but if they want to add some content that is considered hard, then you have to have tool to sort the baddies out. Edited February 23, 2012 by Forsbacka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedlosson Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I'm asking politely. This is the #1 biggest issue with SWTOR right now... Can we get a word on why it is taking so long for this to be implemented when it is so crucial to everything in the game... 90-95% of people are casuals. Casual players do not need combat log. Edited February 23, 2012 by Jedlosson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acri Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I'd say it's among one of the most important issues. Other issues include, but are not limited to: 1) GCD lasting too long, contributing to combat feeling slow, removing skill from PvP when players are allowed the luxury of having too much time to react. 2) The 3 difficulty modes not being labelled correctly as "Pug, Very Easy, and Easy" (This could also be resolved by tuning the difficulties to the way they're advertised) 3) Lag in the fleet and Ilum on some of the best rigs available 4) Poor UI and no addons to compensate 5) No sort of linear PvE progression. (Why is Columi easier to get than Tionese and why does Columi drop in 'Normal' and Rakata in 'Hard mode'?) 6) Stats in PvP not equalizing across the board immediately upon entering a warzone, when PvP gear in any game should only be for vanity since not only is that what most people care about anyway, but it's no test of skill for a fresh 50 to fight a Battlemaster. Edited February 23, 2012 by Acri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringko Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 [...] This is the #1 biggest issue with SWTOR right now... [...] The lack of a "Hide Companion Helm" option is an indefinitely bigger issue than the lack of a combat log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jederix Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Look at this guy belitttling mine and every pvpers importance. Making up percentages makes you smart. It's true. The PvP playerbase in MMOs is very small compared to the PvE. Most real PvPers play games that are designed for them. MMO PvPers tend to lean toward MMOs because their PvP is usually unbalanced and controlled by who has the better gear; ya know, looking for advantages other than skill. COD, SC2, etc. don't have those issues and it's why MMO PvPers don't play them; PvPing without gear advantages or unbalanced class mechanics is no fun for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterKayote Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 You dont need it for content atm cause its easier than we seen in years, but if they want to add some content that is considered hard, then you have to have tool to sort the baddies out. "I did it without a DPS meter so obviously its just easy content." Is that what youre saying? So basically all they need to do to make a boss encounter you'd consider "hard" is shorten the enrage timer. This game already has the same exact "quality" boss strats and mechanics as any other MMO. What they need to do is actually get creative and put some real reactive difficulty in the game, not just some stupid artificial enrage timer that really only requires one to stare at their DPS meter while following the rotation they got from some website. I dont know about you but I much prefer to carry noobies that can at least play well in a team, than be carried by some meter and a website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 90-95% of people are casuals. Casual players do not need combat log.need is a red herring. Lots of casual players want a combat log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 ^^This^^ Im still waiting for someone to actually counter the fact that people are clearing this games content without them. Its like saying "OMG I/we need a calculator for this test!" when the entire class is doing fine without it. Theorycrafting provides a whole nother level of investment into the game. It's hard to theorycraft without objective analytics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grufftech Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 haters gotta hate, Maybe its not the #1 issue but i cannot wait to have a combat log. Raiding philosophy is different for everyone; personally if your job is to DPS, you should be in the spec that does the most DPS, regardless of what your feelings are. If your job is to tank, you should be in the spec that absorbs the most damage, and if your job is to heal, you should be in the spec that heals the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollcageuk Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 need is a red herring. Lots of casual players want a combat log. All the casuals I talk to are actually against the idea of a combat meter because they want to play...casually...and for fun. They basically say, - Can I beat the Boss? - Yes! - then what do you want a meter for? - Dunno, some guys posting on the forums - Why? Can't they beat the Boss. I'm a casual and I managed it! Do they want me to help teach them how to play? - Maybe, not sure. But they seem to think they are better than everyone else. They want harder content but they also want meters to make that harder content easier. - So, they don't in fact want harder content at all. They want an app to tell them what build to use, gear to use, rotation to use and agro levels? How is that making the game harder? - Beats me - Can't they just you know play the game, wipe a few times, try different things until they do it right? - I don't think they know how to learn. For years they have had a little app tell them everything they had to do so they don't know how to do it properly. - Hehehehe....that's quite funny. I hope BW don't do it. - Yeah, me too. Want a beer? - Sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 All the casuals I talk to are actually against the idea of a combat meter because they want to play...casually...and for fun. They basically say, - Can I beat the Boss? - Yes! - then what do you want a meter for? - Dunno, some guys posting on the forums - Why? Can't they beat the Boss. I'm a casual and I managed it! Do they want me to help teach them how to play? - Maybe, not sure. But they seem to think they are better than everyone else. They want harder content but they also want meters to make that harder content easier. - So, they don't in fact want harder content at all. They want an app to tell them what build to use, gear to use, rotation to use and agro levels? How is that making the game harder? - Beats me - Can't they just you know play the game, wipe a few times, try different things until they do it right? - I don't think they know how to learn. For years they have had a little app tell them everything they had to do so they don't know how to do it properly. - Hehehehe....that's quite funny. I hope BW don't do it. - Yeah, me too. Want a beer? - Sounds good. you and your imaginary friend dont want something that if implemented you could totally choose not to use. go on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'm asking politely. This is the #1 biggest issue with SWTOR right now... Can we get a word on why it is taking so long for this to be implemented when it is so crucial to everything in the game... Here's the thing. It's not all that crucial to the game. We're clearing all HM content and moving into nightmare modes and thats all without a combat log. In fact, now that I can see it's not needed to do content, I'd be OK if it was never added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 "I did it without a DPS meter so obviously its just easy content." Is that what youre saying? So basically all they need to do to make a boss encounter you'd consider "hard" is shorten the enrage timer. This game already has the same exact "quality" boss strats and mechanics as any other MMO. What they need to do is actually get creative and put some real reactive difficulty in the game, not just some stupid artificial enrage timer that really only requires one to stare at their DPS meter while following the rotation they got from some website. I dont know about you but I much prefer to carry noobies that can at least play well in a team, than be carried by some meter and a website. yeah, with current fight mechanics shorter enrage timers, most important job for dps classes it to dps and do it well, not that its taken away there is only situational awarness left that aint usually an issue anyway and if you have decent healers and tank,s DPS doesnt have to be decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 All the casuals I talk to are actually against the idea of a combat meter because they want to play...casually...and for fun. . All the casuals i talk to wants combat logs cause they want more challenging boss fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 you and your imaginary friend dont want something that if implemented you could totally choose not to use. go on... IF it's ever implemented you can choose to not use it on a individual basis but you cannot avoid it's use in groups. Best to leave it out as it does more harm than good and since the content is so easy there is no reason to implement something that might make it easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) OR without them the people that are "bad" never realize they're bad and thus never do anything to improve their performance. without them competitive raiding is non existent, which would be bad for the game in the long run without them competitive pvp is non existent, which would be bad for the game in the long run players never really know what their particular class does well (aoe/single target) compared to other classes, making optimizing for a given encounter the same as throwing a dart blindfolded because optimization for encounters isn't truly possible, encounters need to be kept simple and extremely forgiving as they are now...boring the player base is ignorant to the severity of class imbalance and therefore what should normally be obvious fixes (nerfs/buffs) go unaddressed because BW doesn't have people on their case about it. player feedback is important, even if it is often no more than whining players that are used to having logs from playing almost any MMO of the past decade become frustrated by not being able to analyze themselves or others in order to make improvements and slowly but surely go back to a game that allows them to WHICH SCENARIO WOULD YOU PREFER? In order to spare their feelings the "bads" get to continue being bad at other players expense? OR We add combat logs and the "bads" are occasionally held accountable for their lack of interest in being decent at the game but we get to avoid all the negative results of no combat logs I listed above? Most (as in all minus a few exceptions) MMOs have either no log at all, or a non-timestamped non-exportable combat log that only shows your numbers. Are you saying that in all those games people are simply bad, there's no competitiveness, and what's more players can't improve and have no idea of what their class does and how it compares to other classes? Really? Edited February 23, 2012 by Truga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollcageuk Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 All the casuals i talk to wants combat logs cause they want more challenging boss fights. How does having a little app telling you what to do, or reading an internet post telling you what rotation/build to use, make the bosses harder? You want more challenging bosses, you can do it without needing meters. My earlier post in this thread explains why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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