This game is TWO MONTHS old.

[Emeda]

Most of this stuff can happen without that tool. I've had people take loot that was better than mine, for my class, for their companions. I've waited and given up on runs due to lack of tank/healer. This isn't stuff that can't be QQ'd about already.

 

Yes it can happen without a LFG tool but then you also will know that person and never have to run with him again. If he afks you can kick him etc

 

Dont use the ignore feature because if you did that for everyone you wanted to once LFG is out you would have a full ignore list in less than a week.

[Nazguapo]

It's quite simple really, if you want more content, leave and come back in a year or two. No one's forcing you to stay. I'm staying and paying my $15 a month because I'm excited to A. See this game grow over time, and B. Be a part of that growth process. If you didn't want bugs, you shouldn't have bought the game at launch, that's plain common sense.

 

Unfortunately, I know that a large number of people went out and bought Windows Vista on it's first day, expecting it to be a perfect improvement upon Windows XP. "Common" Sense is poorly named if you ask me.

[Dreeb]

I wish ppl would stop comparing mmo's that are already out for several off years with mmo's that are just releashed ...

[Akirator]

Sad thing is, there is a tool, already in the game, that does the same thing for warzones. What is the drawback for having it work with flashpoints? I am meeting and playing with a lot of the same people in warzones. In turn we have done a few operations and flashpoints together. If anything a flashpoint queue would be a community builder. Why was it not implemented at launch if a warzone queue was implemented?

 

For the life of me I dont know why they did one but not the other, and if they had launched with it that would have been great.

 

The problem is that it is NOT essential, and at this point in time, the game was released, there is alot of stuff broken and alot of features that are not in the game in any way shape or form.

 

Those things should absolutely have a higher priority than redoing something thats not broken, just not working like people wish it would.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Akirator

[NKieffer]

Yes it can happen without a LFG tool but then you also will know that person and never have to run with him again. If he afks you can kick him etc

 

Dont use the ignore feature because if you did that for everyone you wanted to once LFG is out you would have a full ignore list in less than a week.

 

Why does it got to be a guy?

 

On a serious note. That's the gamble you take. If you see the same person show up in a flashpoint, just leave. Not like they have a system in place that penalizes you or anything for leaving a warzone or flashpoint early.

[kristoffbrujah]

Yes it can happen without a LFG tool but then you also will know that person and never have to run with him again. If he afks you can kick him etc

 

Dont use the ignore feature because if you did that for everyone you wanted to once LFG is out you would have a full ignore list in less than a week.

 

I have 4 people on my ignore list in 2 months of playing.

 

Not going to be a problem. Whatever time I spend dealing with that pales in comparison to literally 30 minutes or more wasted every session finding a group. Or worse, spending 30 minutes and not finding a group.

Edited February 24, 2012 by kristoffbrujah

[Tiaa]

Face it.

 

People won't accept SWTOR success.

 

It's not enough for developers to come out and say the game is doing well?

 

We know developers won't lie about a games development success even when they know the game is a pile of crap

 

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.net/war/us/home/flash/2008_08_CredPodcast.html

 

Let's try to guess which one is EA Louse!

Edited February 24, 2012 by Tiaa

[Terans]

I still enjoy playing this game and I'm having fun, but to deny the problems with it is being naive and ignorant.

 

 

There uis a LFG feature but it's not user friendly which means noone is using it.

 

I can find players who are looking for a group from around the galaxy but I've not been able to form a group with it.

 

The game needs a better LFG system along with a better UI. The fact that this feature or an updated UI has not come sooner rather than later is bewildering to me.

 

I've seen enough posts on the subject well before the game was even released.

[Naladdar]

EQ1 , with all its flaws, beat the crap out of this game, flat out. Even with a book in your face, corpse runs and combines that didnt combine.

 

I had a party after they removed this *********** book in front of your face!

[gurugeorge]

Why? You can't help comparing SWTOR to WoW because it is a WoW CLONE.

 

Oh yeah, I remember how there was all this superb VO-d storyline and dialogue choices in WoW, it was great!

[Lethality]

I wish ppl would stop comparing mmo's that are already out for several off years with mmo's that are just releashed ...

 

Why? It only makes sense to compare the competition.

[BlackZoback]

Few things:

 

- MMO's are not cars, so stop using that as a comparison.

 

- EVERY MMO has bugs.

 

- GW2 is not the second coming... sorry but its not.

 

- I'd like to see this "source" for the 300+ million spent making this game, cause all I can find are numbers like 85-100 million.

 

Even if you're comparing ToRs launch with Rifts (the closest thing time wise) it still has more features.

 

Btw.. for those who forget Rift did have:

 

11 zones

10 dungeons

2 cities

1 raid, Greenscale's Blight (arguably more buggy then EV)

4 warfronts

1 epic quest line

 

But didn't have, and like ToR didn't need:

 

LFG/X-server warfronts <--- Patch 1.2

Guild banks <--- Patch 1.3

Server transfers <--- Patch 1.3

X-Server LFG <--- Patch 1.4

 

What Rift did have that ToR should have had is a combat log and UI options but it was probably omitted for very good reasons.

 

Rifts UI bugged out for months, resetting whenever it felt like it, so it really shouldn't count.

 

TL;DR: The game is TWO MONTHS old...

Edited February 24, 2012 by BlackZoback

[Lethality]

Few things:

 

- MMO's are not cars, so stop using that as a comparison.

 

It's perfectly valid. But let's use video games. Heck, let's use BioWare video games.

 

Mass Effect 3 is about to come out... I downloaded the demo and it's awesome. Interestingly, it has learned many things from Mass Effect 1 and 2. It doesn't start with a blank slate for a shooter RPG, it starts with the expected set of features, and ADDS to them.

 

It's unacceptable to pay your money for anything and not expect it to be an improvement over it's competitors... in every other case, that's WHY you would buy one product over another.

 

 

 

- EVERY MMO has bugs.

 

This "get out of jail free card" isn't valid.

 

Bugs in software used to be a very, very rare thing. Especially before the internet. It all seemed to start when Netscape would release a "beta" of their browser, knowing they could patch it at any time.

 

Back when software truly had to "ship", it was virtually and necessarily bug free. There weren't constant updates, if any, ever for the product. There wasn't an efficient way to distribute them.

 

This kind of product testing needs to come back and we as consumers should demand it - including from MMO developers.

 

Also, there are business-critical software applications that CANNOT fail and cannot be buggy for military, medical, financial and other areas... I would argue that an MMO IS business critical for it's developer and publisher, as if it isn't generating revenue, it's quote critical to the business model.

 

 

- GW2 is not the second coming... sorry but its not.

 

Remains to be seen, but one thing is perfectly clear: they are starting with a COMPLETE feature set. Guild mechanics, achievements, mobile/external integration, etc. In addition, they are innovating with NEW things - overflow servers, World V World PvP, etc.

 

- I'd like to see this "source" for the 300+ million spent making this game, cause all I can find are numbers like 85-100 million.

 

You're not very good at searching. The $300 mil number wasn't specifically debunked, but shrugged aside by John Ricitiello.. however, recent estimates from reliable sources and analysts seem to agree that $200 million is about right.

 

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2012/01/20/star-wars-the-old-republic-the-story-behind-a-galactic-gamble/#/0

 

Even if you're comparing ToRs launch with Rifts (the closest thing time wise) it still has more features.

 

No it doesn't. Don't confuse features with content. RIFT was much more feature complete.

 

TL;DR: The game is TWO MONTHS old...

 

Which means it should be two months better than the competition, but it's still catching up. Remember, the competitors aren't sitting still either. While TOR waits for "server transfers" GW2 is intodducing overflow servers (instant transfers, essentially) to eliminate queues.

 

Anyway... many players aren't willing to raise a second child. Not willing to wait for it to "grow up". We just did all of this to our first and maybe even second child, and now to have to do the same thing for a third? Time to put it up for adoption.

[BlackZoback]

It's perfectly valid. But let's use video games. Heck, let's use BioWare video games.

 

Mass Effect 3 is about to come out... I downloaded the demo and it's awesome. Interestingly, it has learned many things from Mass Effect 1 and 2. It doesn't start with a blank slate for a shooter RPG, it starts with the expected set of features, and ADDS to them.

 

It's unacceptable to pay your money for anything and not expect it to be an improvement over it's competitors... in every other case, that's WHY you would buy one product over another.

 

Flawed argument because ToR started with a blank slate MMO (probably closer to the EQ model then WoW), and Mass Effect has had 3 iterations to get the awesome gameplay you experienced.

 

And BTW it's quiet acceptable to spend my money the way I want to.

 

This "get out of jail free card" isn't valid.

 

Bugs in software used to be a very, very rare thing. Especially before the internet. It all seemed to start when Netscape would release a "beta" of their browser, knowing they could patch it at any time.

 

Back when software truly had to "ship", it was virtually and necessarily bug free. There weren't constant updates, if any, ever for the product. There wasn't an efficient way to distribute them.

 

This kind of product testing needs to come back and we as consumers should demand it - including from MMO developers.

 

Also, there are business-critical software applications that CANNOT fail and cannot be buggy for military, medical, financial and other areas... I would argue that an MMO IS business critical for it's developer and publisher, as if it isn't generating revenue, it's quote critical to the business model.

 

When did this mythological time exist when code written by human beings is bug free? I'm old but i'm not that old.

 

Hell even Super Mario Bros. (which came out in 1985) shipped with a few bugs.

 

Remains to be seen, but one thing is perfectly clear: they are starting with a COMPLETE feature set. Guild mechanics, achievements, mobile/external integration, etc. In addition, they are innovating with NEW things - overflow servers, World V World PvP, etc.

 

Keep drinking that Kool-Aid, I prefer to drink mine when is all mixed together... but that's just me.

 

You're not very good at searching. The $300 mil number wasn't specifically debunked, but shrugged aside by John Ricitiello.. however, recent estimates from reliable sources and analysts seem to agree that $200 million is about right.

 

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2012/01/20/star-wars-the-old-republic-the-story-behind-a-galactic-gamble/#/0

 

Nearly $200 million is a far cry from $300+ million.

 

No it doesn't. Don't confuse features with content. RIFT was much more feature complete.

 

What features are you talking about? all but combat logs and UI options where present for both launches.

 

Which means it should be two months better than the competition, but it's still catching up. Remember, the competitors aren't sitting still either. While TOR waits for "server transfers" GW2 is intodducing overflow servers (instant transfers, essentially) to eliminate queues.

 

GW2 is closer to ME3 (or any single player game) in terms of marketability and competition, since your only paying for it once it has to have a big bang for its buck or people are just not going to buy it.

 

GW2 is promising the world... and I stopped falling for that a long time ago.

 

Anyway... many players aren't willing to raise a second child. Not willing to wait for it to "grow up". We just did all of this to our first and maybe even second child, and now to have to do the same thing for a third? Time to put it up for adoption.

 

I'm on my 6th(maybe 7th) "child" and if you where any kind of parent you'd love all your "children" equally, and give them the same growing room as you shown to the others.

 

You're an awful parent, and if your unwilling to raise another child... use the various contraceptives available to you.

Edited February 24, 2012 by BlackZoback

[Oldgrimm]

 

 

 

I'm on my 6th(maybe 7th) "child" and if you where any kind of parent you'd love all your "children" equally, and give them the same growing room as you shown to the others.

 

You're an awful parent, and if your unwilling to raise another child... use the various contraceptives available to you.

 

Sometimes its hard to "love" the ginger haired stepchild.

[davidlqs]

100% agree with all of Lethality's points. I've just cancelled my recurring sub (why did I go for 3 months? doh) as I have only played a couple of hours in the last month. Why should I pay up for another 12 months, or 7 years or however long it takes them to sort this shambles out? Maybe, just maybe, if I read nothing but OMG AWESOME posts about how the developers have turned that game around I'll consider re-subbing. The likelihood is I'll be playing something else by then.

 

It sounds ridiculous, given how long the development cycle was, but this game feels rushed out.

[jannickj]

well... i have never played an mmo. dont know anything about programming and developing. i have no idea how any other mmo started out or how they are going atm, and i sure as hell dont plan to find out.

 

i love star wars, i like bioware. and this game intertains me.

[LucisAbyssus]

It's perfectly valid. But let's use video games. Heck, let's use BioWare video games.

 

Mass Effect 3 is about to come out... I downloaded the demo and it's awesome. Interestingly, it has learned many things from Mass Effect 1 and 2. It doesn't start with a blank slate for a shooter RPG, it starts with the expected set of features, and ADDS to them.

 

It's unacceptable to pay your money for anything and not expect it to be an improvement over it's competitors... in every other case, that's WHY you would buy one product over another.

 

 

 

 

 

This "get out of jail free card" isn't valid.

 

Bugs in software used to be a very, very rare thing. Especially before the internet. It all seemed to start when Netscape would release a "beta" of their browser, knowing they could patch it at any time.

 

Back when software truly had to "ship", it was virtually and necessarily bug free. There weren't constant updates, if any, ever for the product. There wasn't an efficient way to distribute them.

 

This kind of product testing needs to come back and we as consumers should demand it - including from MMO developers.

 

Also, there are business-critical software applications that CANNOT fail and cannot be buggy for military, medical, financial and other areas... I would argue that an MMO IS business critical for it's developer and publisher, as if it isn't generating revenue, it's quote critical to the business model.

 

 

 

 

Remains to be seen, but one thing is perfectly clear: they are starting with a COMPLETE feature set. Guild mechanics, achievements, mobile/external integration, etc. In addition, they are innovating with NEW things - overflow servers, World V World PvP, etc.

 

 

 

You're not very good at searching. The $300 mil number wasn't specifically debunked, but shrugged aside by John Ricitiello.. however, recent estimates from reliable sources and analysts seem to agree that $200 million is about right.

 

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2012/01/20/star-wars-the-old-republic-the-story-behind-a-galactic-gamble/#/0

 

 

 

No it doesn't. Don't confuse features with content. RIFT was much more feature complete.

 

 

 

Which means it should be two months better than the competition, but it's still catching up. Remember, the competitors aren't sitting still either. While TOR waits for "server transfers" GW2 is intodducing overflow servers (instant transfers, essentially) to eliminate queues.

 

Anyway... many players aren't willing to raise a second child. Not willing to wait for it to "grow up". We just did all of this to our first and maybe even second child, and now to have to do the same thing for a third? Time to put it up for adoption.

 

Actually, if you look at the estimates from Michael Pachter which are around 80 million, and you remember back to the EA Earnings Call which stated how many subscriptions they would need in order to make a profit off of their game, 70-80 million is more accurate.

 

You say these 200 million seem accurate and are reliable, but they don't fit.

Edited February 24, 2012 by LucisAbyssus

[SirRobin]

It's quite simple really, if you want more content, leave and come back in a year or two. No one's forcing you to stay. I'm staying and paying my $15 a month because I'm excited to A. See this game grow over time, and B. Be a part of that growth process. If you didn't want bugs, you shouldn't have bought the game at launch, that's plain common sense.

 

Unfortunately, I know that a large number of people went out and bought Windows Vista on it's first day, expecting it to be a perfect improvement upon Windows XP. "Common" Sense is poorly named if you ask me.

 

Still running XP here.

 

I'll leave once something better comes along. I may already be bored with TOR but at least its something to do for the one or two hours I get to game after the kids and wife go to sleep.

 

I wish ppl would stop comparing mmo's that are already out for several off years with mmo's that are just releashed ...

 

Well considering how many more people BioWare had working on TOR, how much more time BioWare spent building on TOR, and how much more money BioWare spent making TOR... One could say that we shouldn't be comparing TOR to the "launch state" of other mmo's either.

[SirRobin]

Actually, if you look at the estimates from Michael Pachter which are around 80 million, and you remember back to the EA Earnings Call which stated how many subscriptions they would need in order to make a profit off of their game, 70-80 million is more accurate.

 

You say these 200 million seem accurate and are reliable, but they don't fit.

 

Not sure how you think an analyst's guess is better than a newspaper's report. There has not been one whimper from anyone with EA or BioWare that the "almost two hundred million" isn't accurate. Given how almost ludicrously high that number is, more than double even an analyst's guesstimate, you would think somebody "in the know" would have said something, over the last month, if it was far off the mark.

 

The article seems quite detailed regarding this game's development, more detailed than that analyst's guessing in fact, so it would be a stretch to think they just pulled the numbers out of their rear.

Edited February 24, 2012 by SirRobin

[Frostvein]

Nazguapo

It's quite simple really, if you want more content, leave and come back in a year or two. No one's forcing you to stay. I'm staying and paying my $15 a month because I'm excited to A. See this game grow over time, and B. Be a part of that growth process. If you didn't want bugs, you shouldn't have bought the game at launch, that's plain common sense.

 

Unfortunately, I know that a large number of people went out and bought Windows Vista on it's first day, expecting it to be a perfect improvement upon Windows XP. "Common" Sense is poorly named if you ask me.

 

The reason why companies push out garbage is because people like you are willing to pay for it and gladly smile about it.

 

Vista as an OS was a huge failure, and no, it was NOT anyone's fault that they expected it to work better then its predecessor given the 100 dollar upgrade/200 dollar fresh install pricetag.

 

The sooner people start demanding better from their software companies, the better.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Frostvein

[Blackardin]

Which is what astounds me, because SW:TOR said nothing about bringing revolutionary change to the MMO World.

 

 

Honestly, what I am finding when I read these boards is that most of the negative posts are formulated from a premise that does not exist, never existed. Many of the posters enrolled on the boards in December of last year.

 

Many argue the failure of promises never made, implementation never intended, dynamics never sought.

 

This seems to indicate to me that most of the complainers really have little idea of how the entire genre functions, let alone this one game, and most of the "facts" posted are merely hyperbole and conjecture created as a part of the complaint.

[Blackardin]

Still running XP here.

 

I'll leave once something better comes along. I may already be bored with TOR but at least its something to do for the one or two hours I get to game after the kids and wife go to sleep.

 

One's boredom with this game, this genre is not the fault of the manufacturer, especially when the numbers represent a very different outcome across the board. It is irrelevant to any discussion regarding the success or failure of the game as a whole.

 

Certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it is just opinion.

 

Well considering how many more people BioWare had working on TOR, how much more time BioWare spent building on TOR, and how much more money BioWare spent making TOR... One could say that we shouldn't be comparing TOR to the "launch state" of other mmo's either.

 

I'm not sure what relevance this presents, unless one is postulating the assumed conclusion that the game is a failure, which would be, again, conjecture. In fact, it would be incorrect in totality.

 

The only place that this game fails is on this board, according to a very minute sampling. In reality, the game is quite a success, and holds strong promise.

[gurugeorge]

It's unacceptable to pay your money for anything and not expect it to be an improvement over it's competitors... in every other case, that's WHY you would buy one product over another.

 

True, and SWTOR is a vast improvement on its competitors in certain areas (i.e. much more immersive stories, full VO, and particularly grouped dialogues with same). And it launched with those improvements.

 

It's just that, to you and the rest of your relative minority (judging by first month's retention), this innovation is sort of "invisible" - i.e. it's not what you're looking for.

 

Which is fair enough. But you've got to realize BW aren't going to change their emphasis. All you can bet on is that more content will come, the endgame will improve, and the "standard MMO" gameplay will be polished. But there isn't going to be any major sea change in the emphasis of this game.

 

This is not a game for "old hands". There was never any point in putting the main emphasis on attracting people who are already playing MMOs, away from the MMOs they're already playing. Neither bored ex-WoW-ers nor those who started with UO and EQ, will ever be satisfied with any AAA MMO that ever comes out. Watch what happens to Tera, to GW2, to TSW. You'll see exactly the same pattern - hopeful trying-out, and then a pretty swift backlash, with some liking the game, and the majority restlessly moving on to the next New Hope.

 

Why would BW be so stupid as to try to pander to a crowd who cannot possibly be satisfied with anything? Who will never find a new MMO with 5 years' development able to match a mature MMO with 7 years' development and are too inexperienced or dim to realise why? Who will never be satisfied with any new game because it doesn't match up to their golden memories of their first "magic moments" in an MMO?

 

On the contrary, this game is mainly for "MMO Virgins", who, a couple of years from now will be QQ-ing about how the latest MMO releases have so little story and hardly any VO

Edited February 24, 2012 by gurugeorge

[YanksfanJP]

You're ignoring the premise of the post. Launch is a difficult time for every MMO. The bugs and other post-launch issues have to be fixed before new content can be added. This happens with every MMO. You cannot reasonably expect a brand new MMO to have as much content and development as a game that has been out for 7 years and is the most widely played MMO ever. Go play that game, good riddance, I sure as hell won't miss you.

 

You're completely missing the point.

 

Yes, launch is difficult. Yes, there's bugs that need to be fixed. Yes, players understand that bugs should be sorted out before new content is added, for the most part (although that's not an excuse to never add content since bugs will always exist).

 

None of that is that issue that people rightfully have a problem with.

 

The issue is that some of the content that was already in the game at launch is ridiculously archaic.

 

Take the GTN for example. It still completely boggles my mind how the GTN interface has been completely terrible since before launch.

 

Or how about the looking for group system. No, I'm not asking for a random dungeon finder. I'm just talking about the interface (or lack thereof) itself. Seriously, they did a 1 out of 10 on giving people a sufficient way to find others to group with, and that's being generous. But hey, at least you can see the "LFG ICON" on some random questing guy you ran past.

 

It's basic MMO features and needs that they've failed at so far. That's the real problem.

Edited February 24, 2012 by YanksfanJP