It is very easy to understand under normal circumstances. Decreasing player activity is linked to the subscription numbers and I think the last months confirmed this theory. If the player activity would have dropped ~50% from launch, it would be an indicator for a chilled playerbase. It is perfectly normal, that in the first month of an MMO there are loads of players, who play twice the time they normally would. But, according to very reliable statistics, the player activity dropped way more, than these healthy 50%. Furthermore, this proves, that many players stopped to play SWTOR and this means, that they cancel their subscription. So you see? This is not that hard to understand... and please dont start with your "above the curve" argument. Because .... Out of ~2,4mil sold copies remained 1,3mil active subscriptions. Total loss of players 54% (not to forget, that there are many nominal members because they are at the moment , thanks to this free month, active in the subscription statistics (I'm one of these nominal members))

Gz Boy, you figured the reason nr. 102 out, why the people cancelled their subscription. Now, try reason nr. 1 - 101. (little hint, read and understand the written criticisms in this forum)

True, but I have another theory. A MMO needs the hardcore fraction. They are the theory-crafters the math crunchers and they give us a good competition. The hardcore player gives a purpose for the average player. If you cant keep the hardcore player, because your content gets cleared too easy, they get bored and leave. If a game has no hardcore player, the average player has therefore no competition to beat and gets bored too. Life is about competition in every way. Never asked yourself, why the Blizzard games are so successful? They are very easy to learn and everybody can step in fast. But, they also give a hardcore player a good challenge. Diablo 3 will be a good example for this. (and WoW is too) SWTOR is too easy, because a dedicated guild of average players can clear the SWTOR nightmare OPs. (And Soa is only a challenge, because this encounter is heavily bugged) So there was no challenge for the hardcore player in SWTOR. (Yes, I know, that this game was never intended for the hardcore player, but this was the biggest fault in SWTOR made by the developers) People are constantly looking for a challenge and I dont see this in SWTOR.

No, I am paying 15$ / month to post in these forums. So you cleared Naxx40 in vanilla WoW? And you are really holding on to your claim, that normal SWTOR OPs > Vanilla WoW? Really? Please, because I was in one of the very very few guilds, which cleared Naxx40 (after statistics only 4% of the guilds in WOW cleared the Naxx content in Vanilla) back then and I have to say, that this was the hardest PvE experience I had so far. (And I played WoW in the endgame PvE up until the T11 content) And the difficulty jump in the SWTOR OPs from normal to HM was not even recognizeable. Only nightmare was slightly harder.

You make adventurous claims, and dont even bother to defend yourself. I find this lack of proper argumentation, mildly amusing. It is hard to compress the failure of WAR into several sentences. But, a PvP player is not satisfied only with a "PvP friendly" labeled MMO. It has to be "PvP friendly" within, in combination with a finished MMO-base and all the little features all of us are accustomed to. Regarding WAR, yes there was "PvP friendly" within at first. But, the whole MMO-base was missing. Beginning with the outdated (but very hardware needy) graphics, over the plethora of bad design / balance and development decisions and ending with the destruction of the working PvP system. And because of these wrong decisions WAR failed. As a dedicated PvP player myself, I can only say, that we very well know, what we want to see in a MMO. Up until now, the PvP players were treated like the ginger haired stepchild by the MMO-developers and that it the wrong way. A PvP player wants more, than 3 WZs and a unfinished and uninspired OpenPvP planet and I am glad, that the PvP base at whole shows signs, that we arent that easily satisfied as the developers thought we would. GW2 will be a next good shot (after I played the Beta weekend) and it will draw the PvP base in.

I dont consider myself a hardcore gamer and I experienced this myself. Dont wiggle around. You stated, that the OPs in SWTOR in normal mode, are more difficult, than the Vanilla WoW Raids. Please, after this adventurous claim, I have to ask you to elaborate.

1. Why is it ridiculous? Ridiculous is, that you are thinking from your subjective point of view. Because, there are many people, who burned through the"endgame"-content and stated, that the difficulty level is way to low and is only unwillingly hightened by the plethora of bugs. 2. Normal OPs > Vanilla WoW Raids? Were you even thinking, before you typed this text?

...who will play an outdated game? ...WAR? Seriously? This is your argumentation?

Please, dont make such adventurous claims, because it is slightly problematic to follow your thoughts. All of the PvP problems were discussed in the beta forums X-times with constructive criticism. But there was no reaction from BW/EA. So you cant assume, that BW/EA did something on account of the PvP playerbase, because there was no communication. Because, if BW/EA would have listened to the constructive criticism in the beta forums, the PvP system in SWTOR wouldnt be in its current state. But thats OK, as a PvP player I wrongly assumed, that SWTOR would be the right game for me. Most of the PvPer realized or will realize, that they made a wrong choice, and will correct that. SWTOR will retain its fitting customer base and there will be enough to be profitable. But, honestly they have much work to do, to achieve that. @DieAlteHexe I'm sorry my terminology wasnt appropriate relating to my comment on your nick. Better said: I wrongly assumed that you are german, based on your nick.

Thats OK, and I see that SWTOR will remain with a healthy subscribtion base to be profitable for EA/BW. But, as you said, players like me will find their enjoyment elsewhere. and btw. dont use a german nick .... its misleading

In some definitions pessimism is very close to realism. Hmm... I play(ed) less than half of the time than you and consumed the offered PvE raids and the PvP system quite quickly. And if they define the endgame to "roll alts until you squeal", its not that healthy. Because many many people dont share the thought on this definition of the endgame. Nah, please you make it too easy for yourself. I could fill pages with the wrong choices BW/EA made. And the worst thing was, that they clearly didnt do what the PvP asked for in beta. The best argument for this is Ilum.... and my resume is with this one word concluded.

I try german: Wenn man in Betracht zieht, was SWTOR bisher anzubieten hatte. Wird man seine Erwartungen an zukuenftige Erweiterungen / Patches und Storyfortfuehrungen dementsprechend anpassen. Or english: If you see, how much SWTOR offers to a gamer now. You will moderate your expectations in the future expansions / patches or coming story lines.

Believe me... its not.

A little analogy there: You walk into a clothing-shop and check all the available offerings in there. All you find are outdated and overpriced rags and untasty clothes. Believe me, if you would walk to the shop-manager and ask him, if he could offer you some clothes of a better quality. You wouldnt expect him coming out of the storage-room with a Versace suit.

I'm glad, that there are people out there, who are so easily entertained. But, after 2 content-patches there are some disbelievers, who dont think that these flowery words are in fact the truth. And what exactly? As a dedicated PvP player I already know, that this game wasnt designed for our kind. For dedicated PvE players, there is not that plenty to do either. So yes, SWTOR will be a field test for me how many real casual player are out there, because this game is clearly made for the casual Joe.

In the leveling process I can see clearly, that SWTOR is a story driven MMO. But please help me, where is this "story driven" after reaching the lvl-cap? Your argument is valid, but on the long term the Lvl50 content, is the content what matters most. And I could be too pessimistic, but I dont see much of a story driven MMO in the endgame. Or is it the purpose in SWTOR to play all the 8 storylines to lvl 50? What comes then? OK, we could count the idea of a story driven MMO as an innovation, but the final implementation failed.

Everything a question of personal taste. Full VO in a MMO? Great idea. But! It is only a fancy feature, which entertaines for a short while and gets even annoying in the endgame. After that every gamer looks on the core features. And these have to work flawlessly, if a developer want his MMO to be successful. In this question SWTOR failed hard as AOC / WAR and many other did. Core mechanics in MMOs have to evolve, to keep the playerbase entertained. The quicker the lethargic developers and publishers learn that, the better. (At least some of the smaller developer companies realized it) WoW was new (for most of the people, who made their first step into the MMO genre with WoW) and was released at the right moment with the right idea / franchise / developer. They took the ideas from previous MMOs + the ideas of the current competition + added a little fluff and the people (me included) liked it. But back then the MMO genre was new to most of the players. Even the already used mechanics appeared new and fresh. Now its 2012 and there are voices everywhere, that the playerbase wants something new / fresh / innovative and they voice their critisism mostly as "another WoW-clone". Lastly: For SWTOR it is not too late to fix the problems with the core mechanics / up a little bit the server hardware and do some healthy sever merges to retain a playerbase around 1-1,5 m. subscribers. At the moment they have to work hard to be at least remembered as a mediocre MMO.

The VO is quite a fancy way to deliver a quest text, nothing more. Its not an innovation or a new mechanic to change the game. Quite frankly, the VO was a fault, because the resources were wasted for it and were needed in all the other game parts, who are seriously lacking in SWTOR. Of which importance is the VO in the endgame (which keeps normaly an MMO alive)? And lastly, dont compare the evolution of the shooter genre with the MMO genre. 2 whole different matters. And shooter do evolve there, where the it matters most for the gamers.

Yes, the sub-numbers are dwindling. But it is nothing new, if the numbers of ghost servers are growing. The problem in SWTOR is not the problem of the MMO genre. The current problems are custom made by the developing and publishing companies. I know, that new ideas / mechanics or whole gaming systems cost money , are risky (because nobody knows how the customer will react) and take time to develop. Now we can clearly see, that BW/EA went the "save" way too, and developed a game with little to 0 innovation. They decided to keep to the standard and give the customerbase a game with already known mechanics. (known mechanics =! WoW clone) Problem is, that a gamer expects a genre to make an evolution. AOC tried that once with an innvative combat system (but failed to deliver everything else) Aion tried it with 3D fightting in the air (the same failure like AOC) a.s.o. So the lesson the big companies learned, is not, that they have to be innovative and deliver a finished product. No, they learned, that new ideas are risky and it is the safer way to keep to the ol'good standards. Problem is, that after one decade of little to 0 evolution in the MMO genre, the gamerbase is tired of the same ol'mechanics. And I'm glad, that SWTOR will fail on the long run too, because the big companies have to learn it the hard way, that they have to take risks and develop new / fresh and innovative gaming mechanics to stay alive. If you are one of the ol'generation of MMO players, who are happy with no evolution in the MMO genre, thats OK. But I'm relieved, that a good portion of the gamerbase is showing with their wallets, that the MMOs have to evolve, to be successful in the future.

Too optimistic ... there are 3 types of "leavers" here: 1. Makes the 95% of the leavers: They push silently the "cancel subsription" button and are gone. 2. The classic forum "trolls" (honestly I'm one of them): They are about to leave but spent too much on the gaming time and are seeking some entertainment for the last spent bucks in the forums. 3. The positive leavers: They have no intention to leave this game, because they like it somehow or they see a speck of potential. So they launch the forum cruise missile with the "I'm leaving" dramas to catch the attention of the developing team. But dont be so euphoric, because there are some indicators, that the next annuncement of the active subscription numbers wont be that much of a blast for EA/BW.

Once again, without the slightest proof, nobody will take your adventurous claims serious. So I can tell you that they will only reap some laughters, nothing more. You see potential in this game, thats fine. But I'm on the other side, where I see a game which requires a complete overhaul. I could begin with the poor engine, which is not suited to be used in an MMORPG. Or at least this engine should be optimized to be much less resource hungry. We could go over the planet-design, which repeats itself with the same tunnel -> little hub -> tunnel pattern. (not very benefical for the MMO feeling in an MMO) Continiuing with the planet design, which devides the playerbase in many little instances, which further kills the MMO feel. And the PvP ... o jeah... thats there the "fun" begins for a designated PvP player , like me. I could fill pages with criticism, but most of the people in these forums will take the point. Endgame ... yes it is the endgame, which keeps an MMO alive on the long term and especialy there this game lacks. I could only compare the problems in SWTOR with AOC. And the biggest problem is, that BW/EA completely misunderstood the concept of an MMORPG.

You know, you are only digging the shame hole deeper. Please dont make such adventurous claims without the slightest proof. You can have your position in favor for SWTOR, but please, do it at least more professional with some real arguments with real facts from the real life. And no, the pink flying dumbo in your room is not real. There are people, who like this game and the offered entertainment is enough to keep them subscribed. But there are people, like me, out there, who want to see something new / fresh or at least inovative. A year 2012 MMO with a working engine and a competent developing team. But SWTOR is sooo 2004... and you know... we already have a smooth working 2004 version offered by the competition. So... how will be this singleplayer "MM"ORPG remembered? It will be remembered as a "MM"ORPG with a developing team, which had the wrong definition of the term MMORPG.

I like optimistic people, because they are so easily entertained.

Please give me a quote, where I exactly stated my opinion as a fact. You know, only people with a very weak argumentation are using this word inflationary. If you look at the statistic, and see a steady decline in player activity, it could mean something. A person with a capable mind could form an opinion about the current state of this game, from these numbers. And after seeing 3 servers going from healthy to ghost with my own eyes, I formed my opinion, that the customerbase is not very satisfied with the offered entertainment in SWTOR. And following that, everyone knows, what a unsatisfied customer does, right? So, this game is really made for people like you. Thats OK then. But looking at the EA company policy over the last years, this move doesnt fit. Because EA got for the year 2012 this award: http://consumerist.com/2012/04/congratulations-ea-you-are-the-worst-company-in-america-for-2012.html And they dont make that quick a 180* turn now from the common EA company policy we all are used to. Sorry my belief in the good of the people is not so strong as yours. I see EA/BW constantly working to maximize their profits. This move costs them millions and it should have a reason why they did that. Could it be, that their statistics could go with my opinion, that they are losing subs and they try to hold the players longer until this game reaches a condition, which we call "ready for release"*? Or at least hold the grumpy PvP base a little longer after the 1.2. disaster? * It means, that this game is outfitted with all the needed core features, the MMO players are accustomed to since 2004.

You know first of all, you should adjust your attitude, because with this lacking enunciation of yours, nobody will take you seriously. Secondly, the death of a thousand papercuts was ment as an analogy to the glaring problems in this game. This game is not dying in the classic term, but it is truly bleeding subs. Here at : http://www.torstatus.net/ you can check the server population trend. Yes, James Ohlen has the most accurate statistics, but torstatus will be accurate enough to get a whole picture of the situation in SWTOR. (And no, there are not only some ghost servers) Lastly I will mention one thing. To someone like me, the 30 day free-play time is a sign of clear desperation. They wouldnt introduce this gift, if this game would do fine in terms of healthy subscription numbers.