Inarai Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Slightly related; I noticed that I lost my Legacy XP bar recently. I didn't bother to look for it, as it's currently useless. Discuss. Preferences, UI, Show Legacy Bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodalus Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 And then if something gets the axe, you're screwed. You mean, like the whole legacy system that they hyped (yes hyped, including words like "exciting" and "awesome") before launch and then didn't release? There is a difference between pre-launch hype of a feature to gain sales and post launch information. They already blew it with the pre-launch hype machine. Imagine if they'd not said anything about legacy and simply put the xp bar in at launch. People would have asked questions. There would have been a lot of genuine (rather than marketing hype induced) excitement. And then they say: "Legacy name, X, Y, and Z are features for this system that we are working to implement. The first to roll out will be a legacy name. This will come in the first patch. Then we will add X once we have it working properly. These are the details on X. Y and Z will come later, but here are the things we are planning for them." The legacy system would have actually been a positive thing, instead of the negative thing that it is. (Especially the legacy name since holding it off until after the first patch would have allowed them time to actually plan it out and think it through so we didn't end up with the stupidity of it's current functionality.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephismo Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 BW: "We have this great legacy system feature that we will be putting in the game." Players: "Really, what is it?" BW: " We aren't ready to say, but we're excited about it." <Game launches> Players: "A last name. . . that's it? And it carries over between factions on a single server but not across servers even if the same faction? It affects all of your characters on that server, cannot be changed, does not have a preview, and the system auto-changes it to conform to the non-communicated restrictions?" BW: "I know! Isn't it awesome!" Players: "???" BW: "We'll released more stuff for it, eventually." Players: "What will the additional features be?" BW: "We're not telling." Players: "Should I hold off on rolling alts?" BW: . . . Players: "???" BW: "We're going to be adding features to the legacy system in patch 1.2. These will include new races. . . kinda. And then there's other stuff." Players: "What kind of other stuff? What are the new races? Is it currently unplayable races that are in the game, or just races that are currently playable by one class that will now be playable on another? Will there be a way to change our current characters with these new features?" BW: . . . Players: "???" This about sums it up:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuusouRumba Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Hurr durr welcome to gaming and development No, this is simply unacceptable. The MMO genre is the ONLY genre of video gaming where fans will desperately defend an unfinished product. You paying a monthly fee is NOT an excuse for a developer to release a supbar product with vague promises of finishing it "in the future." A small percentage of your monthly fee (About 1-2 dollars) go to servers. The rest goes to them UPDATING the game, adding new features, not finishing what they claimed would make it into launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 No, this is simply unacceptable. The MMO genre is the ONLY genre of video gaming where fans will desperately defend an unfinished product. You paying a monthly fee is NOT an excuse for a developer to release a supbar product with vague promises of finishing it "in the future." A small percentage of your monthly fee (About 1-2 dollars) go to servers. The rest goes to them UPDATING the game, adding new features, not finishing what they claimed would make it into launch. They get away with it because Fanboys will defend anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 No, this is simply unacceptable. The MMO genre is the ONLY genre of video gaming where fans will desperately defend an unfinished product. You paying a monthly fee is NOT an excuse for a developer to release a supbar product with vague promises of finishing it "in the future." A small percentage of your monthly fee (About 1-2 dollars) go to servers. The rest goes to them UPDATING the game, adding new features, not finishing what they claimed would make it into launch. Uh-huh. Because any developer in the history of software has gotten everything they wanted into a product. </sarcasm> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Uh-huh. Because any developer in the history of software has gotten everything they wanted into a product. </sarcasm> No - but most software products have formal standardization and guidelines that they need to follow to make the product release ready. MMOs do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunsoar Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Don't care, not my problem. If the above scenario were limited to this one feature, then I, and likely many others, would be much more flexible and forgiving. But it seems to be more the rule than the exception with this game. I was patient. I followed the game from the beginning, including joining the forums the day they opened. I was in beta for 6 months and put up with GZ's antics and blatant statements that my feedback meant nothing and we were just there to give them metrics; yet I still filed my bug reports and provided in-game and forum feedback like a good little tester. I did my part. BW did not do theirs. I was in beta for a year. Im glad I am not the only remembering Georg saying that our feedback ment nothing to them. Look what happened after the well written posts I submitted about linearity. Ability delay. Interface issues (related to performance not customization). Classes. Republic being less desirable. The one thing they DID CHANGE was updating tanks 31 point talents into something less generic (but failing hard on Vanguard shield specs) Legacy is worthless feature. How many of use are over at least 10 now? I have 4 alts over 20 now? Why wouldI want to reroll and SUFFER through the same linear content so that I cant play a race the available to a class before? And that race is just a recolored human model? Legacy will be just as disappointing as everything else. Edited February 15, 2012 by Sunsoar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwonline Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 No, this is simply unacceptable. The MMO genre is the ONLY genre of video gaming where fans will desperately defend an unfinished product. You paying a monthly fee is NOT an excuse for a developer to release a supbar product with vague promises of finishing it "in the future." A small percentage of your monthly fee (About 1-2 dollars) go to servers. The rest goes to them UPDATING the game, adding new features, not finishing what they claimed would make it into launch. Are you kidding? MMO players are far, far more demanding of their games than solo player games. Example: Skyrim. Hailed as an awesome game loved by millions. Geting GOTY awards. If it launched as an MMO in that state it would have been savaged as one of the worst released MMOs because of it's many may MANY bugs, ridiculously unbalanced gameplay, terrible voice acting, lack of direction for questing, easy exploits, and frequently very poor graphics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 No - but most software products have formal standardization and guidelines that they need to follow to make the product release ready. MMOs do not. More accurately, these things are different when maintenance and updates are part of the plan - when the product more closely resembles a service, things are different. That exists outside the MMO space, too - can't think of any consumer examples, however, so the mistake is understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanzoV Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Preferences, UI, Show Legacy Bar. Thank you, but that's currently too much work. Maybe in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Legacy is doing a whole lot of 'nuthin atm. Any information at all would be nice, but given they're advertising of swtor itself maybe we don't want to "know" anything. So much bait and switch already I don't think I could take much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyldesley Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 The fear and difficulty here, is that we never ever see what goes on behind closed doors. Silence could just be "we don't know what exactly will make it into this next patch", sure, but it probably isn't. Seven and a half years ago, someone wrote one line on the back of the World of Warcraft box. "Hero classes". Hype and speculation were rife, what could this awesomely named feature be? Well, it could be not in at release for one thing. Two years later, first expansion, nothing. New boxes don't mention it anymore, forum moderators stop talking about it. Utter silence. Two more years, Death Knights are released. And here we are three and a half years further on and that's still it. Did whoever wrote that one line all those years ago really mean "One class that starts at a higher level", or was there a system or an idea that quietly got scrapped without anyone drawing attention to it, and then years down the line someone realized that people were STILL asking what it meant and said "hey, we better slap this name on SOMETHING to shut them up." So far "legacy system" is just two words and a video that shows little and says less. Maybe there's something truly interesting, new and exciting that they just need time to develop, then that's fine. But I, for one, am worried that we're more likely to see continued silence, perhaps the video being quietly taken down, and years later someone saying "Oh, this new random feature X, yeah, that's the legacy system. Now shut up about it, already." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berezo Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 BW: "We have this great legacy system feature that we will be putting in the game." Players: "Really, what is it?" BW: " We aren't ready to say, but we're excited about it." <Game launches> Players: "A last name. . . that's it? And it carries over between factions on a single server but not across servers even if the same faction? It affects all of your characters on that server, cannot be changed, does not have a preview, and the system auto-changes it to conform to the non-communicated restrictions?" BW: "I know! Isn't it awesome!" Players: "???" BW: "We'll released more stuff for it, eventually." Players: "What will the additional features be?" BW: "We're not telling." Players: "Should I hold off on rolling alts?" BW: . . . Players: "???" BW: "We're going to be adding features to the legacy system in patch 1.2. These will include new races. . . kinda. And then there's other stuff." Players: "What kind of other stuff? What are the new races? Is it currently unplayable races that are in the game, or just races that are currently playable by one class that will now be playable on another? Will there be a way to change our current characters with these new features?" BW: . . . Players: "???" quoted for truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Alternative - not put the Legacy xp in at launch so no-one could begin earning legacy xp and then release the finished product as an update at some point in the future e.g. like most MMOs do. Why always assume the negative? The fact its in mean people are collecting free reward points without knowing what the rewards are. It's beteter than not being able to collect any reward points until the system is completley launched. This is exactly my feeling on the subject as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpuax Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 we know 0, nothing, nada, about what the legacy system. will unlock. And features discuses are pure speculation or even worse, just random guesses. Would be nice if bioware leaked a little bit at this point Like maybe a legacy feature a week. Would get people psyched for it and possibly help retain subs for those on the fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuusouRumba Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Are you kidding? MMO players are far, far more demanding of their games than solo player games. Example: Skyrim. Hailed as an awesome game loved by millions. Geting GOTY awards. If it launched as an MMO in that state it would have been savaged as one of the worst released MMOs because of it's many may MANY bugs, ridiculously unbalanced gameplay, terrible voice acting, lack of direction for questing, easy exploits, and frequently very poor graphics. Skyrim never advertised features that weren't implemented at launch. Also comparing reviewers to actual customers is laughable. DA2 received many good scores by reviewers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckskyline Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Skyrim never advertised features that weren't implemented at launch. Also comparing reviewers to actual customers is laughable. DA2 received many good scores by reviewers. Ok then. Name one MMO that was bug free/had all of the content/released all of the details about upcoming cotnent/that did not loose a lot of people after launch.. Go ahead Name one. Nope? Thought so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWaotc Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Wait a gosh darn pickin minute... You mean to tell me, a game developer/game did not release every little detail of everything? Little details.....yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwonline Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Skyrim never advertised features that weren't implemented at launch. Also comparing reviewers to actual customers is laughable. DA2 received many good scores by reviewers. So, you think my "loved by millions" is referring to Skyrim reviewers, not players? Talk about laughable. Skyrim is an extremely well-liked and widely-played game. Yet if it was an MMO, it would have been savaged BY THE PLAYERS for it's shortcomings because players judge MMOs much more harshly than they do single-player games. As for features advertised and not implemented, we can mince words about what is actually "advertised" vs a wish/to-do list, but that is not terribly relevant. Premium MMOs are living games, and will be constantly expanded and improved. Name me an MMO that is to be 100% featured when shipped and I will show you a game that never ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HavenAE Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 BW: "We have this great legacy system feature that we will be putting in the game." Players: "Really, what is it?" BW: " We aren't ready to say, but we're excited about it." <Game launches> Players: "A last name. . . that's it? And it carries over between factions on a single server but not across servers even if the same faction? It affects all of your characters on that server, cannot be changed, does not have a preview, and the system auto-changes it to conform to the non-communicated restrictions?" BW: "I know! Isn't it awesome!" Players: "???" BW: "We'll released more stuff for it, eventually." Players: "What will the additional features be?" BW: "We're not telling." Players: "Should I hold off on rolling alts?" BW: . . . Players: "???" BW: "We're going to be adding features to the legacy system in patch 1.2. These will include new races. . . kinda. And then there's other stuff." Players: "What kind of other stuff? What are the new races? Is it currently unplayable races that are in the game, or just races that are currently playable by one class that will now be playable on another? Will there be a way to change our current characters with these new features?" BW: . . . Players: "???" This is Bioware. ON EVERYTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HavenAE Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Ok then. Name one MMO that was bug free/had all of the content/released all of the details about upcoming cotnent/that did not loose a lot of people after launch.. Go ahead Name one. Nope? Thought so.. in that token... name me one MMO that has succeeded post WoW because they have this mentality of "Oh we'll just fix it after launch". Go ahead name one, I'll wait. Nope? Thought so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Bluesky Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm not a hater, I'm a disillusioned and disappointed fan. "I spent a good 5 or 10 minutes searching around the preferences because I was sure a feature like this would not have been omitted."- A simple quote that I have seen countless times; This is what is wrong with TOR in my book. this hi-res textures legacy optimization? I guess 3 months after the launch we'll get PART of ONE of these "future gaming features". Just makes me sad when I look at my CE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregordunbar Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) All Legacy has done and seems like it will do is prove that whoever is in charge of the game doesnt know anything about RPGs. One single Legacy name for all characters no matter the race or side.... Upcoming family tree to tie your characters to the same family to unlock skills...proving whoever came up with that idea either did not know this game has more than one RACE or does not care if your human, sith and Twi'lek are part of the same family tree. I know. A human having a child with a Twi'lek can give birth to a red sith! Then again, they could be on a whole new level of stupid and made it so only characters of the same race can be in a family and force everyone to have all characters the same race...thus proving further they are not only dumb, but dont know a thing about RPGs. Edited February 17, 2012 by Notannos use of the word retarded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmybob Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Ok then. Name one MMO that was bug free/had all of the content/released all of the details about upcoming cotnent/that did not loose a lot of people after launch.. Go ahead Name one. Nope? Thought so.. Is your argument, everyone sucks so it's ok to suck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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