livnthedream Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Aha. So PVEers SHOULD get them as a course of what they are naturally going to do, but PVPers shouldn't? That's the very definition of a double standard. Why don't we just send you a full Rakata operations gear once you hit 50? See I can hyperbole too... thats only making the assumption that "pve" is only raids and hm fps. thats where bioware chose to put them. there are several extremely casual players that i have carried through to pick those up that really have no place in either an op or hms at all (blame the wives of some of my buddies ><) just to get these. they really are super easy to get, and anyone can get a hold of them if they put there mind to it. because you dont want to run the content, really is a poor excuse. @zeke great job slandering me and attempting to dismiss my argument, keep up the great whining! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebunts Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 The real problem is that the BCA is needed in too many crafts not to be common. If the alloy was needed for one or two high end crafts then keeping it rare is fine. But not when you have over 300 uses for it. Another option for getting these would be the level 6 crew missions. Even if not common, atleast having a chance is better than nothing. Hardcore gamers may get all the BCA's they want and need, but causual gamers and those who play on limited times wont have any chance if more options isnt introduced in obtaining any rare items. Too many games become unbalanced and unfair to casual gamers if getting the resources isnt available. In UO, you can get all the ores, woods, ect., including the rares, by mining, lumberjacking, ect. It didnt matter if you played 8 hrs or 1 hr, you could obtain the resources and dont have to be hardcore gamer. In that other Star Wars game (that isnt around anymore) a causual gamer was able to get harvesters set upon server best resources when they spawned and would then have a chance to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannomite Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Get group of friends. Run 3 HMs. Get them to pass. Profit? You'd think they were asking you to constantly pve. On another note, they clearly should make the Centurion relics not bound because pvers don't want to have to pvp to get 2 champion bags! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamirashi Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Get group of friends. Run 3 HMs. Get them to pass. Profit? You'd think they were asking you to constantly pve. And how long do those 3 HMs take? A lot longer than I care to run around fighting a computer. I'm sorry, I'm a software developer. I fight computers from 8-5 every day and when I get home I don't care to continue fighting a computer. I don't care for a side of the game where once you get the gear and learn the fight you can roll through it in no time, that's not fun to me. Not saying anyone else shouldn't like it, just saying I DON'T! On another note, they clearly should make the Centurion relics not bound because pvers don't want to have to pvp to get 2 champion bags! This really has nothing to do with the argument... I didn't ask for someone to sell me rakata tokens, just give me a way to get a crafting material in my just as important side of the game as yours. Again, if PVE people want to PVE there is no reason for them to ever have to step into PVP. Period. They don't HAVE to. If a PVP player wants to have all their available buffs for PVP they HAVE to PVE to get them. This is not just a "I want the Rakata stuff" I'm just saying I want SOMETHING. The closest thing I can get without doing HM's is the reusable 48 which I had to RNG R/E to get and then it doesn't even persist through death, which quite frankly is a bigger deal to us PVP players than it is to PVE. Face it, we die more, we have to re-apply it more if it doesn't persist through death. Give me a level 50 reusable stim that persists through death that I can get through PVP as a Biochem. Remember these Rakata things are not just a PVE only thing. There are plenty of PVE people who will not get them because you have to be Biochem to use them. Its a BIOCHEM thing. I am a Biochem just as much as any of you are. Why do you think you're so special because you can tolerate this any more that we can? I'm in a guild and at some point will get these materials, even if they have to carry me through the HMs to get them. Its not that they are hard to get, or that I can't get them. I just don't think its a good game design to have such a hole in itemization for the PVP crowd. I will make sure once I've gotten all the mats I need for all the Rakata reusables I want that I come back and confirm that I still think its a bad system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyorrhea Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 OP in some extent I do agree with you and a part of me will be quite pissed if you can faceroll PvE items by doing PvP. I PvP/PvE and both are quite time consuming, however I did do both for my gear upgrades and for the CBA. I do not agree with CBA to be gained via PvP as the one would ultimately be easier to obtain the matts with. And BW likes them some RNG. If you are in a PvE FP you have a 25% chance to get the item if everyone rolls need, I don't see BW adding this in bag drops as there is already quite a bit of QQ with the current % drop rate for PvP gear. The best thing I would suggest is adding of PvP stims/adrenals/medpacs that could be crafted by PvP matts, gained from doing PvP. But this would again make Biochem a more viable choice, thus all profs would need some sort of PvP gain added to them, which is additional changes to the game. For your sake I hope they add something that will comfort you. I did the grind and got me some CBAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldisper Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I agree with the OP provided they were purchasable with commendations and earned through specific acts...not just through the every day general PvP play. However, if they make one profession for PvP and PvE, then recipes for gear, mods, enhance, etc should also be earnable thru similar play. agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestrodomus Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yeah, it kinda sucks, but no ones stopping anyone from PvE'ing or PvP'ing. It can all be had you just don't want to do it. Run a couple of ops one week with 8 friends (you'd faceroll in Champion/BM gear) and you'll have more mats than you can use. I have half a bay filled with data cubes and alloys AFTER I've made 10-15 rakata pieces trying to get augment slots. If you don't want to play the game to get the stuff, then stop complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergulch Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yeah, it kinda sucks, but no ones stopping anyone from PvE'ing or PvP'ing. It can all be had you just don't want to do it. Run a couple of ops one week with 8 friends (you'd faceroll in Champion/BM gear) and you'll have more mats than you can use. I have half a bay filled with data cubes and alloys AFTER I've made 10-15 rakata pieces trying to get augment slots. If you don't want to play the game to get the stuff, then stop complaining. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Zorth_ Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 you dont though. to pvp effectively you still need to pvp. pvpers dont need alloys for any facet of pvp. Yes they do, That's like saying Crew Skills are part of the PvE.. wrong.. Re-usables that persist through death are more worth to PvP'ers since they die all the time and spend inbetween 1-10 stims every PvP game depending on how much they die. they can buy stims/adrenals just like the rest of the non biochem players. They have to stack up on 10 stims each game just to be safe, That's 10 x 3.500 creds = 35k credits every PvP game just for stims, that are bad compared to the Rakata ones. oh, and its still "quicker" to gear up to hm ops through pvp than it is pve. No, People in greens can down every boss in EV normal. I got full columi in one night, Did KP & EV normal in one night and got my items, Was ready for Nightmare by then. Is that harder than to play 5 PvP games a day, buy some bags for the slight chance of getting gear that is worse than the PVE gear that I got? also, i really have to ask, once you got all that you needed why did you continue to need/greed? Not relevant.. ive been running hm or better ops since week 2 and there are still people in my raid groups who need them for crafting things for there companions and such. Isn't that cute, PvE people are already crafting gear for their companions while PvP people have to struggle just to get the chance of winning one little BCA to craft their Rakata stims. it seems that you continuing to pick them up was rather greedy dont you think? Always greed on everything, In case I get it I can jsut sell it to vendor and get some cash. Still waiting for that Fortitude Augment to appear on AH so I can buy it.. Still not relevant to the discussion.. thats on top of the fact that people generally in that position really dont need the cash either so why exactly you would want to open up that market i really dont understand. Nice of you to ignore the question in this discussion.. It's unfair to the PvP community that they have to go through PvE just for the chance of getting BCA so they can craft their stims/adrenals, Which is more useful to them than the PvE community since they get more deaths per hour than we do. Let's put it this way: If you had to do PvP weeklies to be able to get i.e a BCA bag. Where you have 1/4 chance of getting the BCA that you need for crafting. I can assure that you would complain about it not being fair to you as a PvE player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekeiele Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Did livnThedream actually say "buy the consumables like the rest of the non Biochem users" Really ?!? It's the PVP Biochem CRAFTERS we are talking about dude...along with the cyber techs etc....we don't even care if they only work in WZs or Ilum and whatever other PVP areas come up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livnthedream Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Nice of you to ignore the question in this discussion.. It's unfair to the PvP community that they have to go through PvE just for the chance of getting BCA so they can craft their stims/adrenals, Which is more useful to them than the PvE community since they get more deaths per hour than we do. except it isnt. it isnt a "pvp" only consumable, nor do you get any other mats for it EVER from pvp. it doesnt make sense that you get a special "freebie" just because you dont want to put in the work to enjoy the reward. Let's put it this way: If you had to do PvP weeklies to be able to get i.e a BCA bag. Where you have 1/4 chance of getting the BCA that you need for crafting. I can assure that you would complain about it not being fair to you as a PvE player. i wouldnt be upset that i had to pvp to get it. i would however be upset that i had a 1 time weekly shot with only a 25% chance of acquiring what i was after. however that isnt anywhere close to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livnthedream Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Did livnThedream actually say "buy the consumables like the rest of the non Biochem users" Really ?!? It's the PVP Biochem CRAFTERS we are talking about dude...along with the cyber techs etc....we don't even care if they only work in WZs or Ilum and whatever other PVP areas come up damn right i did. you dont want to put in the miniscule amount of effort to acquire what you claim is so super important then pay the cost. im not biochem, i purchase my items just like the rest of the community because I CHOOSE to not reroll biochem. it really comes down to value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenetke Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Forcing someone to run heroics for even a chance of getting one to make Rakata reusables, and then having to get 2 more if you want the "set", is absurd. Either make it not BoP so I can buy them, or make a way to obtain it via PvP. I'm not looking to hear if any diehard carebear tells me that my idea is bad for x reason, because it doesn't pertain to you and you should have no say in it. I'm also not looking to hear "TOR is a story driven PvE game with a PvP minigame" because I don't care and it doesn't matter how you play the game, it matters at least in the business sense that Bioware can accommodate the 2 biggest customers who the game is advertised for, PvEers and PvPers. There is no reason to limit it to PvE because frankly you should realize not everyone wants to PvE. And don't tell me that whether you agree it should be more available I should do it anyway. I'm not sinking time without a guarantee of getting one, having to form a group and run through the instance in PvP gear and a PvP spec. I've had a plethora of complaints about the game but I'm not one to cry about things or ragequit, clearly I am still playing. In spite of the fact that my AoE stun doesn't function, all my gear is stacked with useless accuracy, and Surge got nerfed, I still can enjoy the game. But adding on top the fact that neckbeards who can and want to devote enough time for and enjoy PvE on top of PvP should get a boost in PvP simply because they can get a use out of their Crew Skill, which should inherently be usable by anyone who has it maxed, is downright terrible. If you don't care about other peoples opinions why post on a public forum? For that matter, what makes you think anyone should care about your opinion when you care about no one elses? Even then those carebears could easily charge you 2million credits for one, and you would then complain they are too expensive. Make them obtainable for pvp rewards and you invalidate one of the very few reasons to run pve. Nice of you to ignore the question in this discussion.. It's unfair to the PvP community that they have to go through PvE just for the chance of getting BCA so they can craft their stims/adrenals, Which is more useful to them than the PvE community since they get more deaths per hour than we do. Let's put it this way: If you had to do PvP weeklies to be able to get i.e a BCA bag. Where you have 1/4 chance of getting the BCA that you need for crafting. I can assure that you would complain about it not being fair to you as a PvE player. Coming from someone that loves pvp, you are wrong. BW has always said that PVE would be the focus of the game. They have included pvp, but the focus is pve. They were asked in an interview if a person would be able to level up and play solely through pvp. The answer was "no". That's just how it is in SW. Now I'm going to give you some advice that you might not like hearing. If the game doesn't suit you, stop trying to change it and find another one. I remember when I came to that conclusion with both WoW, and RIFT. I exclusively pvped in rift, in WoW I did arena/raided. I was miserable for awhile till I realized I couldn't change the game, so I left. I'm having more fun in SW because I'm not trying to change it. If I don't like something I either accept it, or leave. Edited February 21, 2012 by Tenetke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalPollo Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 The bottom line is that Biochem is a crafting skill like any other crafting skill. In order to balance giving BCAs for PvP (just to appease Biochem crafters) they/BW would have to also add in Synthweave/Armormech/Cybertech recipes that allow you to create +expertise gear/mods. You should be happy with the fact your crafting skill makes items that are even usable in PvP areas, I know mine doesn't. If it's important enough to you, you'll find a way. If it's not, you'll find an excuse. But to the original point, BCA should be BoP or at a minimum available for purchase with Daily Commendations. It doesn help that the rolls system is jacked up anyways. When two BCAs drop from one boss, there is only a single roll and highest gets both. That needs to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cascade- Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Again, COULD I do PVE? Probably... the fact of the matter is I DON'T WANT TO, and I should not be completely gimped of crafting myself a reusable persists through death stim as a Biochem who only PVP's. holy crap ! COULD I RAID? Probably... the fact of the matter is I DON'T WANT TO, and I should not be completely gimped of crafting myself really cool gear when I only do HMs. oh... COULD I do PvP? Probably... the fact of the matter is I DON'T WANT TO, and I should not be completely gimped of crafting myself really cool gear when I only do PvE. and... COULD I do HMs? Probably... the fact of the matter is I DON'T WANT TO, and I should not be completely gimped of crafting myself really cool gear when I only play solo. just gimme stuff I want... and shut up...really?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I'm Ok with leaving it BOP. Apparently for PVP they want a least a little less healing or stats or bonuses from crafting skills and the this keeps some gear more in the PVE area than PVP. So, I can't agree with this. There is nothing wrong with some gear or items being driven more to PVE or PVP and what you see in BOP mats accomplishes that. Again, COULD I do PVE? Probably... the fact of the matter is I DON'T WANT TO, ... holy crap ! COULD I RAID? Probably... the fact of the matter is I DON'T WANT TO, and I should not be completely gimped of crafting myself really cool gear when I only do HMs. oh... COULD I do PvP? Probably... the fact of the matter is I DON'T WANT TO, and I should not be completely gimped of crafting myself really cool gear when I only do PvE. and... COULD I do HMs? Probably... the fact of the matter is I DON'T WANT TO, and I should not be completely gimped of crafting myself really cool gear when I only play solo. just gimme stuff I want... and shut up...really?? I just wanted to quote this cause it such a good post and people shouldn't miss it. Edited February 21, 2012 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akella Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I would really hate to see BOP removed from these. It can be difficult enough as it is to win the roll on them. If BOP is removed everyone who doesn't even need them to craft anything will be rolling to sell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqyre Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Again, COULD I do PVE? Probably... the fact of the matter is I DON'T WANT TO, and I should not be completely gimped of crafting myself a reusable persists through death stim as a Biochem who only PVP's. My crafting profession should not be tied to what game mode I wish to play in. Lets make this more ridiculous so some people might get the picture. If I wanted to do nothing but Space missions, I would not want to have to run PVP or PVE in order to get starship upgrades. Also since I've heard this argument to my fill, why do people assume that because I can pop in and make a post to a message board I have time to run PVE content? Can I please run a hard mode for you since you seem to think it would be acceptable for me to check back every 20 minutes or so and attack once then go back to other things I had to do? As mentioned many times before crafting is a pve minigame, if you want to reap the rewards from pve you should be expected to do some pve. However you are wanting to change something to suit your likes and dislikes, that is not how it works, perhaps you should learn to enjoy running some pve or just learn to deal with lifes little adventures. I personally hate the automatic instant replay ruling on interceptions in the NFL and I have probably written 100 letters concerning that and it has not changed anything. Oh and the argument "I Don't want to" is an invalid argument btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekeiele Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 As mentioned many times before crafting is a pve minigame, if you want to reap the rewards from pve you should be expected to do some pve. However you are wanting to change something to suit your likes and dislikes, that is not how it works, perhaps you should learn to enjoy running some pve or just learn to deal with lifes little adventures. I personally hate the automatic instant replay ruling on interceptions in the NFL and I have probably written 100 letters concerning that and it has not changed anything. Oh and the argument "I Don't want to" is an invalid argument btw. Care to give me a link to that particular bioware quote ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekeiele Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I'm 95% sure when I get on my comp I can find one that states they want everyone to enjoy and participate in the crafting system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malichae Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Lets be honest bop is dumbest idea ever invented in an mmo . If someone gets something and wants to sell it why should they not be able to ? . pvp'ers should not be forced to pve and visa versa end of story . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natehinn Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I just think its funny that I have an inventory full of Bio alloy, alien cubes, power cells, etc. Its not hard to get them, do the work QQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtoo Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 You know Black Talon/Esseles Hard Mode is really quite easy. If you have full PvP gear you'll have no problem doing it in less than an hour. Just get the alloy from that, the final boss drops it every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekeiele Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 You know Black Talon/Esseles Hard Mode is really quite easy. If you have full PvP gear you'll have no problem doing it in less than an hour. Just get the alloy from that, the final boss drops it every time. I appreciate that tip.. spent 3 hours on some crappy harmode yesterday (wiping multiple times because we suck at it) and one didn't drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky_walkerPL Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Lets be honest bop is dumbest idea ever invented in an mmo . If someone gets something and wants to sell it why should they not be able to ? . pvp'ers should not be forced to pve and visa versa end of story . True. And imagine that while ago there were mmos withouth bops which managed to create huge, blooming economy interesting for players, making money have value and players have less grinding while more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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