Make Biometric Crystal Alloy Not BoP

[Raeln]

they should just make rakata gear bind on equip so i can buy it because i cant do operations!

 

Interesting concept you have there. Why, I suppose it would be like someone acquiring some valuable object, then selling it to someone else for profit.

 

That sounds oddly like a market-based economy.

 

 

... and we wonder why TOR's economy is so poor.

[livnthedream]

Consistency is the mark of a professional.

 

Making level 48 recipes require materials that only drop from level 50 content is not consistent and by extension, not professional.

 

I could say a lot more here, but I'll just stop at that.

 

matter of perspective really. since we honestly dont know what they have planned in terms of details for future releases (legacy) calling this an oversight, unprofessional, or bad design is nothing more than a shot in the dark. frankly it doesnt effect the game enough for me personally to get my panties in a twist over it. im very sorry that you did.

 

As a player, I put in the time and effort to acquire that item and gear. BoP was originally designed to prevent players from just buying their way to end-game gear. The game it was originally implemented in (Everquest 1) was not a game of alts. It took too long to level a single character to max level so very few players had end-game geared mains and alts at the same time. BoA was never a factor there.

 

This game is different. Bioware expects you to level many alts. The entire Legacy system bolsters that game design and BoA gear and items will be necessary to make that happen.

 

Sorry that you believe otherwise.

 

equating yourself with your character is a fairly common mistake. how legacy is set up currently, and with the scant information we have about it, there is no "downside" to playing an alt character. being able to gear out alts like you currently can companions seems like a waste of the system, and something that bioware doesnt currently intend. as i stated earlier, there is no barrier to playing alts like there is in many other games.

 

Crafting and crew missions (outside of slicing and underworld trading) make no sense anyway for most classes. As the commander of Havoc squad, never, in a thousand years, am I going to send my whole squad off on their own to various planets to gather dinky materials to return and try to build things on my ship.

 

Negative.

 

Now what I might do as the most elite squad CO is try to steal Imperial tech or sabotage their efforts at researching new technology, but it makes no sense for these high profile companions of mine to be going on gardening missions to recover chunks of metal or psychedelic fungus spores when there are far more important things to do be done in the first place.

 

This isn't the case though. Crafting was made to fit because it is an expectation in an MMO. It makes little sense story wise and is there as something for the player to do. If crafting were bound to the story theme, then all of our healer companions would automatically be biochems. At least one of our DPS companions would likely be armstechs. Our tank companions would be armortechs and our droids (for those that have them) would be cybertechs. That's not the case though.

 

Crafting is independent of the story line and should also not be dependent on PvE or PvP for any of its required materials or schematics.

 

you can interpret it this way, or you can take it in terms of both the movies and eu, where we commonly see many characters not only being technically proficient, but actually engaging in such endeavors. how many times did you see han and chewie fixing the falcon, and what exactly did you thing chewie was doing in the bar in mos eisly?

[Raeln]

matter of perspective really. since we honestly dont know what they have planned in terms of details for future releases (legacy) calling this an oversight, unprofessional, or bad design is nothing more than a shot in the dark. frankly it doesnt effect the game enough for me personally to get my panties in a twist over it. im very sorry that you did.

 

No, there is no matter of perspective here.

 

Fact: recipes are level 48.

Fact: required material only found in level 50 content.

 

It is inconsistent. There is no debate here. Likely, it was just an oversight and the recipe was supposed to be level 50 - if this is the case, it was an unprofessional mistake.

 

equating yourself with your character is a fairly common mistake.

 

SWTOR sold itself on being the most immersive MMO to date with voice over questing. This is only successful if Bioware can make the player form a bond with their character and feel, immersed in the game world.

 

how legacy is set up currently, and with the scant information we have about it, there is no "downside" to playing an alt character. being able to gear out alts like you currently can companions seems like a waste of the system, and something that bioware doesnt currently intend. as i stated earlier, there is no barrier to playing alts like there is in many other games.

 

Your opinion.

 

I fully expect Legacy vendors with gear that unlocks depending on Legacy level. While not true BoA gear, they might as well be since all of your characters will be able to access those supposed vendors.

 

you can interpret it this way, or you can take it in terms of both the movies and eu, where we commonly see many characters not only being technically proficient, but actually engaging in such endeavors. how many times did you see han and chewie fixing the falcon, and what exactly did you thing chewie was doing in the bar in mos eisly?

 

I don't care one whit for the expanded universe - that is only canon until Lucas wants to do something otherwise. In the movies, I do not remember one time where Hans sent Chewie out to another planet to gather some rare mineral, sample, compound or component to fix or build something. I don't remember Anakin tasking C3P0 with any such long distance missions and none of the "sidekicks" were chemists or scientists at all. They were action movies.

 

Crafting was hung on the game because it's an MMO. It's expected to be there because of the genre. They then forcibly connected tendrils from crafting to PvE to corral players there because the items they need to make what they want to make is BoP.

[Remulan]

Biometric alloys only craft PVE items. Why should they be available through pvp?

 

Name one other crafting mat available through pvp. There aren't even resource nodes in the battleground area of Ilum.

 

So if you don't want to do any pve, great news you don't have to. Since the biometric alloy is only used for making pve items, even for biochem since the pvp supplied consumables are BETTER, not having them doesn't affect you at all as someone who doesn't ever pve.

 

They are obviously bop to create supply/demand, which helps boe items made with them sell better on the GTN since there is a lower supply.

 

EDIT: I'd also like to add that they are ridiculously easy to get as is. I got 1 the first day I hit 50 and 2 more the next day, with very little effort. Now I don't need them anymore at my third day at 50 so I pass, but I could have probly 6-7 of them if I wanted them, 3 days after hitting lvl 50.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Remulan

[Raeln]

Biometric alloys only craft PVE items. Why should they be available through pvp?

 

Name one other crafting mat available through pvp. There aren't even resource nodes in the battleground area of Ilum.

 

So if you don't want to do any pve, great news you don't have to. Since the biometric alloy is only used for making pve items, even for biochem since the pvp supplied consumables are BETTER, not having them doesn't affect you at all as someone who doesn't ever pve.

 

They are obviously bop to create supply/demand, which helps boe items made with them sell better on the GTN since there is a lower supply.

 

EDIT: I'd also like to add that they are ridiculously easy to get as is. I got 1 the first day I hit 50 and 2 more the next day, with very little effort. Now I don't need them anymore at my third day at 50 so I pass, but I could have probly 6-7 of them if I wanted them, 3 days after hitting lvl 50.

 

Sooo,

 

I guess the Cybertech Wyntech grenades that have AoE slows, stuns, and knockbacks have no PvP applications at all? They are completely for PvE, eh? seeing that almost all champion mobs/bosses are immune to those effects?

[livnthedream]

No, there is no matter of perspective here.

 

Fact: recipes are level 48.

Fact: required material only found in level 50 content.

 

It is inconsistent. There is no debate here. Likely, it was just an oversight and the recipe was supposed to be level 50 - if this is the case, it was an unprofessional mistake.

 

i didnt agree nor disagree. there isnt enough data to say it was intended or not. i agree if it is an oversight, it is unprofessional, however there very well could be a method behind the madness.

 

SWTOR sold itself on being the most immersive MMO to date with voice over questing. This is only successful if Bioware can make the player form a bond with their character and feel, immersed in the game world.

 

i find this statement funny since it directly contradicts what you stated before. by this statement you dont want boa gear since you will actually be playing your "alts" to get said gear on them.

 

Your opinion.

 

I fully expect Legacy vendors with gear that unlocks depending on Legacy level. While not true BoA gear, they might as well be since all of your characters will be able to access those supposed vendors.

 

where did you grab this snippet from, i personally havent seen anything at all about flat out legacy vendors, especially ones with gear. everything i have seen from legacy has been about non combat upgrades.

 

I don't care one whit for the expanded universe - that is only canon until Lucas wants to do something otherwise. In the movies, I do not remember one time where Hans sent Chewie out to another planet to gather some rare mineral, sample, compound or component to fix or build something. I don't remember Anakin tasking C3P0 with any such long distance missions and none of the "sidekicks" were chemists or scientists at all. They were action movies.

 

Crafting was hung on the game because it's an MMO. It's expected to be there because of the genre. They then forcibly connected tendrils from crafting to PvE to corral players there because the items they need to make what they want to make is BoP.

 

eu is just as much cannon as the films. heck, george himself has rewritten film cannon aswell (han shot first amirite). i mean honestly you are correct, this is all opinion. you dont like the current crafting system. you want something that is a stand alone playstyle unto itself. you hate raiding in general and dont want any kind of serious competitive pvp. essentially you want a swg 2.0 which this game isnt and i hope will never be.

[livnthedream]

Sooo,

 

I guess the Cybertech Wyntech grenades that have AoE slows, stuns, and knockbacks have no PvP applications at all? They are completely for PvE, eh? seeing that almost all champion mobs/bosses are immune to those effects?

 

he never stated that they were entirely for pve without any pvp implications. however he is very correct that pvp in no way supports crew skills in any way. the grenades and stims are pretty much the only things that are "effective" in pvp.

 

by your very argument EVERYTHING in the game is pvp, since i can use it in a pvp scenario, even though i didnt do any pvp to acquire it.

[Raeln]

i didnt agree nor disagree. there isnt enough data to say it was intended or not. i agree if it is an oversight, it is unprofessional, however there very well could be a method behind the madness.

 

There needs be no more data. The facts are what they are.

 

i find this statement funny since it directly contradicts what you stated before. by this statement you dont want boa gear since you will actually be playing your "alts" to get said gear on them.

 

With the current incarnation of moddable gear, I could argue that there are many tradeable moddable pieces of gear that can be sent to alts to the point where all they need is to be fed mods and enhancements to keep their gear up to date. Maybe BoA gear might never be required.

 

My point is, this game encourages playing alts by design - due to the heavy emphasis on story. While playing that specific character, Bioware has done a decent job of getting the player immersed in that character though - my opinion there, though.

 

where did you grab this snippet from, i personally havent seen anything at all about flat out legacy vendors, especially ones with gear. everything i have seen from legacy has been about non combat upgrades.

 

There is no snippet. Just extrapolation on what Bioware has done already. They love vendors. There are tons of social vendors, specialty vendors, security vendors, commendation vendors. Bioware loves vendors.

 

I have no doubt that there will be a Legacy vendor on Fleet.

 

eu is just as much cannon as the films. heck, george himself has rewritten film cannon aswell (han shot first amirite). i mean honestly you are correct, this is all opinion. you dont like the current crafting system. you want something that is a stand alone playstyle unto itself. you hate raiding in general and dont want any kind of serious competitive pvp. essentially you want a swg 2.0 which this game isnt and i hope will never be.

 

I've never said that I hate raiding. I just do not want it to be the centerpiece of end-game content. It should never be more than any other type of end-game progression - meaning, the same gear awarded by raiding should be available through other end-game playstyles.

 

I've never said that I do not want any serious competitive PvP. I am entirely against an "Arena" form of PvP, but I have no problems against ranked Warzones as long as gear is awarded according to the position of the ranks. Gear should be as equalized as possible in PvP. Prestige (read: social) items should be the awards for winning those ranked competitions. The success of PvP competitions REQUIRES that all variables except player skill be minimized. The "WoW Arena" was a farce at accomplishing that post Season 2.

[Raeln]

he never stated that they were entirely for pve without any pvp implications. however he is very correct that pvp in no way supports crew skills in any way. the grenades and stims are pretty much the only things that are "effective" in pvp.

 

by your very argument EVERYTHING in the game is pvp, since i can use it in a pvp scenario, even though i didnt do any pvp to acquire it.

 

Um... seriously?

 

He said, "Biometric alloys only craft PVE items".

 

His words, not mine. Those grenades are crafted with Biometric alloys and have very limited usage in PvE (outside of Ilum/Belsavis dailies). They are quite handy in PvP, I suspect.

 

Note: I am not a cybertech.

[Remulan]

Sorry I forgot about the grenades. One item with a 5 minute cooldown, that is situationaly useful, that you can buy/make consumable versions of, that might be slightly more useful in pvp than in pve.

 

Please refute anything else I said instead of trying to invalidate my entire post by nitpicking on one crappy item, that has such a long cooldown, it is almost irrelevant.

[Raeln]

Sorry I forgot about the grenades. One item with a 5 minute cooldown, that is situationaly useful, that you can buy/make consumable versions of, that might be slightly more useful in pvp than in pve.

 

Please refute anything else I said instead of trying to invalidate my entire post by nitpicking on one crappy item, that has such a long cooldown, it is almost irrelevant.

 

Reusable rakata buff stim. Persists through death, which occurs a lot in warzones. Yes, there are consumable versions of it.

[livnthedream]

Um... seriously?

 

He said, "Biometric alloys only craft PVE items".

 

His words, not mine. Those grenades are crafted with Biometric alloys and have very limited usage in PvE (outside of Ilum/Belsavis dailies). They are quite handy in PvP, I suspect.

 

Note: I am not a cybertech.

 

yes seriously. they are only obtained through a pve means. they are not supported in any way shape or form by pvp. should i call my crafted gear "pvp gear" because i pvp in it? also, the grenades in general are mediocre at best in pvp because they have such a long cd.

 

as to your other post, you are making a ton of assumptions based on incomplete data. there are something like 8k items in the database that would need to be changed just to make you feel better. perhaps it was "overlooked", perhaps in the future we will be able to craft bop items for alts. i personally dont know and neither do you. attempting to call it a fact when its a supposition is silly. same with the legacy vendor you have "extrapolated". the only time we will need a vendor is if they have something to sell, which based on the info we have about legacy right now, makes no sense at all.

 

I've never said that I hate raiding. I just do not want it to be the centerpiece of end-game content. It should never be more than any other type of end-game progression - meaning, the same gear awarded by raiding should be available through other end-game playstyles.

 

I've never said that I do not want any serious competitive PvP. I am entirely against an "Arena" form of PvP, but I have no problems against ranked Warzones as long as gear is awarded according to the position of the ranks. Gear should be as equalized as possible in PvP. Prestige (read: social) items should be the awards for winning those ranked competitions. The success of PvP competitions REQUIRES that all variables except player skill be minimized. The "WoW Arena" was a farce at accomplishing that post Season 2.

 

what you ask for and what you believe should be are next to impossible in this type of game. keeping the 3 balanced when based on gear alone frankly does not compute. ive seen a number of arguments on many forums and the best alternative is to come up with a mystical third stat that isnt wanted in either raiding or pvp. swtor has already given it to you in the form of presence, and its shunned. the community has already decided it doesnt want what you are asking for. presence is an incredibly powerful soloing stat btw, its very arguably the best leveling stat currently available.

 

whats even better is you started off whining about elitists in the crafting system yet here you are vying for playstyles you enjoy, and wanting only what you enjoy catered to while actively arguing against what others enjoy.

[havok_bloodcraft]

Use the 48 reusables and deal with it if another guy has the rakata version then he did something to get it that you aren't willing to do. I would like to have rakata gear without having to run ops but not happening. I would like to have BM gear without having to pvp but not happening. And if you can't stomach 45 minutes in hard mode black talon to get one of these I have no sympathy for you. They are not hard to get. I just hope you are on a pvp server because if you are the only guy running without rakata reusables then you are doing something wrong because everyone else can figure it out. Seriously if you cannot hack it in pvp with the 48 reusables then the rakata ones aren't going to help L2P or find another pvp environment because there is no invincible stim or 1 shot adrenal.

 

God I am so tired of all the pvp whining about wanting everything easier.

 

^this again. And the only reason people want to use biochem in pvp is because pvp is broken.

 

It gives you an entire set of gear so you don't need any crafting skill to make equipment.

 

Your armor never degrades so you don't really have to spend any money.

 

So obviously they want Reusable stims so they never have to do any non pvp content ever.

 

These people who don't want to do any non pvp content should never be catered to in any way. They will leave as soon as the next MMO launches and go cry about how those people don't give them everything on a silver platter. The best thing you could ever do for the hardcore pvp gamer is to create a hardcore pvp server type where you select an ac and it gives you a free lv in BM gear with reusable expertise adrenal, exotech stims, and 30% heal pac. and completely remove crewskills and lock raid content on these servers so that it is a whole game ov pvp with everyone in the same gear.

 

Then anyone who has a pvp issue can go there and pvp balance issues can be addressed and applied to those servers only. Because the hardcore pvp crowd will ruin this game and move on to the next like the locusts they are. That is why there is always a news multiplayer FPS every 6 months and why MMO populations surge at the beginning then fall drastically when another mmo nears launch date.

[Murah]

My fav thing to do is pvp. For the most part, I dislike pve. I sure as hell don't like having to pve in order to be effective in pvp.

 

HOWEVER I totally acknowledge that if I'm not willing to take that step, I don't deserve the rewards. I don't want things like Rakatas handed to me. That takes the fun and challenge out of these games.

 

It's kind of cool to find out someone has an edge, now you want that edge, where'd u get that bro? You had to do WHAT to get that? gdit... fine. I'll go get one too brb.

 

And yes I am leaving as soon as the next MMO launches because Ilum stinks. It's just base camping, and there's only two factions. What a disappointment.

[Raeln]

yes seriously. they are only obtained through a pve means. they are not supported in any way shape or form by pvp. should i call my crafted gear "pvp gear" because i pvp in it? also, the grenades in general are mediocre at best in pvp because they have such a long cd.

 

Long cooldown or not, they are still useful. I'll agree that the cooldown seems excessive though.

 

as to your other post, you are making a ton of assumptions based on incomplete data. there are something like 8k items in the database that would need to be changed just to make you feel better. perhaps it was "overlooked", perhaps in the future we will be able to craft bop items for alts. i personally dont know and neither do you. attempting to call it a fact when its a supposition is silly. same with the legacy vendor you have "extrapolated". the only time we will need a vendor is if they have something to sell, which based on the info we have about legacy right now, makes no sense at all.

 

Whatever.

 

Yes, it's my opinion - I'm completely convinced there will be a legacy vendor.

 

what you ask for and what you believe should be are next to impossible in this type of game. keeping the 3 balanced when based on gear alone frankly does not compute. ive seen a number of arguments on many forums and the best alternative is to come up with a mystical third stat that isnt wanted in either raiding or pvp. swtor has already given it to you in the form of presence, and its shunned. the community has already decided it doesnt want what you are asking for. presence is an incredibly powerful soloing stat btw, its very arguably the best leveling stat currently available.

 

I'm not convinced that there really needs to be some distinguishing stat between PvE, PvP and solo gear. At this point, I'd really like to just see one type of gear that can be earned through any of the end-game progression paths. The formulas and talent specs for each type of gameplay should perform the necessary damage reductions/bonuses to compensate.

 

I'm sure you'll completely ignore the meat and potatoes of that paragraph and post something completely out of context though.

 

whats even better is you started off whining about elitists in the crafting system yet here you are vying for playstyles you enjoy, and wanting only what you enjoy catered to while actively arguing against what others enjoy.

 

I've argued that biometric crystal alloy should be made BoE. I haven't "whined" about anything here, except perhaps the number of reverse engineer attempts I've done without discovering schematics. I am pretty sore about that. I don't like wasting time. RNG can line up to create some very frustrating wastes of time sometime.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Raeln

[livnthedream]

^this again. And the only reason people want to use biochem in pvp is because pvp is broken.

 

It gives you an entire set of gear so you don't need any crafting skill to make equipment.

 

Your armor never degrades so you don't really have to spend any money.

 

So obviously they want Reusable stims so they never have to do any non pvp content ever.

 

These people who don't want to do any non pvp content should never be catered to in any way. They will leave as soon as the next MMO launches and go cry about how those people don't give them everything on a silver platter. The best thing you could ever do for the hardcore pvp gamer is to create a hardcore pvp server type where you select an ac and it gives you a free lv in BM gear with reusable expertise adrenal, exotech stims, and 30% heal pac. and completely remove crewskills and lock raid content on these servers so that it is a whole game ov pvp with everyone in the same gear.

 

Then anyone who has a pvp issue can go there and pvp balance issues can be addressed and applied to those servers only. Because the hardcore pvp crowd will ruin this game and move on to the next like the locusts they are. That is why there is always a news multiplayer FPS every 6 months and why MMO populations surge at the beginning then fall drastically when another mmo nears launch date.

 

 

this really isnt helping anything. i can make the same disparaging remarks and sweeping generalizations about every major player segment. if anything it isnt the community that broken, its the entire idea of mmos not being built specifically for pvp.

[Remulan]

Reusable rakata buff stim. Persists through death, which occurs a lot in warzones. Yes, there are consumable versions of it.

 

I already covered in an earlier post that you can buy exotech stims which are more powerful than the reusable rakata ones, last through death, and last for 2 hours for about 20k. Since you don't have to be biochem to use them you can have 3 gathering crew skills to bring in straight cash/easily sellable mats while you pvp more than covering the 20k per 2 hour cost.

 

A pvper is actually gimping himself (pve too, but not really comparable due to adrenals) by being biochem and using the reusable rakata items.

[CulannHS]

im a pacifist. i dont want to have to kill things. i only want to play through my class story, so can i just get an auto skip feature so thats all i have to play?

 

Doesn't fly, sorry. Base mechanics (currently) of a MMO are built around killing things for XP to advance. Poor analogy, and complete failure as a rebuttal. That's strike one. And let's face it, this swing was wild.

 

strawman aside, that is not how the game is designed. perhaps you are in the wrong place.

 

The last resort of the desperate. The infamous "strawman argument" rebuttal. Also a failure because it's not strawman. That's strike two for ya there.

 

to get an above average level of gear you should have to do above average things. you are asking for freebie mats for items that are bis, or in the case of biochem, a huge credit saver.

 

Crafted gear (with rare exception) is not going to be as good as gear obtained from raids/HMs. It's entry level so you can participate in those activities. And Biochem isn't the bottom denominator simply because everyone doesn't HAVE Biochem. There are other crew skills that also require this. That's a strike three for ya.

 

it does though. it makes it harder for those actually running hms/ops for them to acquire (higher demand, same supply) and decreases the overall difficulty of the game itself through making it trivial to gear up. at no time should you be able to ding max level and instantly put on multiple pieces of bis loot. also what are you on about with rift? trion never had a crafting mat tied to either t1/t2 or raids, especially one that was bop.

 

It doesn't, sorry. It doesn't make it any harder for people running HMs/Ops to acquire their gear. Not only is that facetious, it's patently ridiculous as well. And what you're failing (repeatedly from the looks of it) to realize is that by having those available to crafters, the influx of people who can assist in HMs/Ops would increase simply because entry level gear is more readily available. Remember that next time you're watching general on board the fleet or imperial equivalent and see people griping about a lack of tanks or healers.

 

And once again, crafted is not BiS. And please, stop with the horrifically poor WoW mentality. It's embarrassing.

 

As for Rift, the highest levels of crafted gear WERE tied to a mat that you could only acquire by running the heroic version of dungeons (rarely at that) or by doing dailies and blowing a week's worth for -one- of the items needed. If you aren't aware of this then you either A) came into Rift late after they apparently changed it or B) never did any serious crafting in Rift.

 

Either way, it's moot. Trion did this and it caused a massive amount of feedback because of the selfsame way it was handled as frozen orbs were handled in WoW.

 

Summarily, in every post where you've attempted to defend BCAs being BoP, you've been shot down, crashed and burned. Every defense you've thrown up has been successfully rebutted by me or another poster here.

 

The fact remains and it's incontrovertable. BCAs need to be changed from BoP to BoE. Doing so would only benefit the playerbase as a whole.

[Remulan]

...And once again, crafted is not BiS. And please, stop with the horrifically poor WoW mentality. It's embarrassing...

 

...The fact remains and it's incontrovertable. BCAs need to be changed from BoP to BoE. Doing so would only benefit the playerbase as a whole.

 

Crit crafted rakata bracers and wrists are in fact bis right now and in patch 1.2 (or whenever they make armorings extractable from epics) crit crafted orange items will be bis for every player of every class, weapons and armor. Crit crafted items don't drop, they are in fact, crafted items that are bis.

 

BCA's don't need to be boe just because you said so, they are ridiculously easy to get, and the people (armor/weapon crafters) who are stocking up on them now will have billions of credits once the patch hits that let's them craft bis boe gear for every class in the game.

 

If you want/need them do the work it takes to get them. I have been 50 for 3 days and I have my 3 biochem rakata items made and I have passed on at least 15 bca's that I could have taken if I needed.

[livnthedream]

I'm not convinced that there really needs to be some distinguishing stat between PvE, PvP and solo gear. At this point, I'd really like to just see one type of gear that can be earned through any of the end-game progression paths. The formulas and talent specs for each type of gameplay should perform the necessary damage reductions/bonuses to compensate.

 

I'm sure you'll completely ignore the meat and potatoes of that paragraph and post something completely out of context though.

 

not really. to put it simply raiding requires gear progression. if for no other reason than basic encounter design. gear checks alone are required to add variety, and as pve stats grow there reaches a point where pvp stats must also change or pve stats will outscale it. adding similer stats so easily soloable content trivializes raid content to such an extent that it must be badly itemized for raiding (magical stat). trying to say that your "solo" experience isnt easy btw is a logical fallacy. making an encounter hard for one playstyle inevitably leads it to be easy for another, even assuming all of them are specifically crafted for each ac. the class quests for inquisitor for example are much harder for assassins than for sorcerers.

 

I've argued that biometric crystal alloy should be made BoE. I haven't "whined" about anything here, except perhaps the number of reverse engineer attempts I've done without discovering schematics. I am pretty sore about that. I don't like wasting time. RNG can line up to create some very frustrating wastes of time sometime.

 

you started off quoting someone and complaining that bop mats do nothing but favor elitists, i personally would call that a whine.

[havok_bloodcraft]

this really isnt helping anything. i can make the same disparaging remarks and sweeping generalizations about every major player segment. if anything it isnt the community that broken, its the entire idea of mmos not being built specifically for pvp.

 

A majority of people enjoy both pvp and pve aspects of the game. I do wish they would make an mmo created for the sole purpose of pvp. Mostly just because I am tired of PVPTARDS(people who only pvp and ignore all other aspects of the game) wrecking every game that comes down the pipe because they have adhd and rage issues, and then when they have successfully broken a game they ragequit.

[Walking-Carpet]

Interesting concept you have there. Why, I suppose it would be like someone acquiring some valuable object, then selling it to someone else for profit.

 

That sounds oddly like a market-based economy.

 

 

... and we wonder why TOR's economy is so poor.

I've always thought MMO raid drops should be BoE. If I earned an item by participating in a raid, why shouldn't I be able to sell the item to another player or mail it to an alt if I chose to do so?

 

It isn't like making items BoE would reduce raiding; for every raid item received, somebody still had to run the raid. If anything, making items BoE might actually increase raiding, because players who are fully geared would still have a reason to raid.

[Remulan]

I've always thought MMO raid drops should be BoE. If I earned an item by participating in a raid, why shouldn't I be able to sell the item to another player or mail it to an alt if I chose to do so?

 

It isn't like making items BoE would reduce raiding; for every raid item received, somebody still had to run the raid. If anything, making items BoE might actually increase raiding, because players who are fully geared would still have a reason to raid.

 

You shouldn't be able to craft items that are better than what drops in nightmare mode raids(crit crafted rakata bracers/belt) without even stepping into a hm fp. If bca's were boe you could actually have better than nightmare gear sitting in your bags waiting for you to hit level 50 since you can level your crew skill to max well before hitting lvl 50. That simply should not be possible, and if you don't agree then mmo's are probably not a game genre you should be playing.

[Walking-Carpet]

You shouldn't be able to craft items that are better than what drops in nightmare mode raids(crit crafted rakata bracers/belt) without even stepping into a hm fp. If bca's were boe you could actually have better than nightmare gear sitting in your bags waiting for you to hit level 50 since you can level your crew skill to max well before hitting lvl 50. That simply should not be possible, and if you don't agree then mmo's are probably not a game genre you should be playing.

Why shouldn't it be possible? It's not like the gear was free; somebody still had to earn it. Who cares what character actually ends up equipping it?

 

I realize BoP raid gear is an MMO staple, but I don't agree that it necessarily has to be so. Just because something has always been a certain way doesn't mean it has to stay that way. In fact, some other MMOs I play are slowly moving towards making fewer items BoP and it's worked out fine so far.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Walking-Carpet

[livnthedream]

Doesn't fly, sorry. Base mechanics (currently) of a MMO are built around killing things for XP to advance. Poor analogy, and complete failure as a rebuttal. That's strike one. And let's face it, this swing was wild.

 

The last resort of the desperate. The infamous "strawman argument" rebuttal. Also a failure because it's not strawman. That's strike two for ya there.

 

actually its a perfectly valid analogy. you want something that doesnt currently support crafting (killing things) to support crafting (not killing things). also, you should really learn what a strawman argument actually is. it was stated that they should be boe, i stated no and why, to which you replied "i dont want to so i shouldnt have to". that isnt a rebuttal to any point i made.

 

Crafted gear (with rare exception) is not going to be as good as gear obtained from raids/HMs. It's entry level so you can participate in those activities. And Biochem isn't the bottom denominator simply because everyone doesn't HAVE Biochem. There are other crew skills that also require this. That's a strike three for ya.

 

crit crafted rakata belt/bracers, and crit crafted rakata relics would like to have a word. for sorcs/sages also you have crit crafted implants and earpieces that are better than the rakata vendor pieces. also, base crafted pieces for the most part are columni level. come 1.2 both crit crafted guns/lightsabers will be bis (for sorcs/sages lightsabers almost are currently, they are just below rakata). i guess thats all "entry" level though because it isnt bis?

 

It doesn't, sorry. It doesn't make it any harder for people running HMs/Ops to acquire their gear. Not only is that facetious, it's patently ridiculous as well. And what you're failing (repeatedly from the looks of it) to realize is that by having those available to crafters, the influx of people who can assist in HMs/Ops would increase simply because entry level gear is more readily available. Remember that next time you're watching general on board the fleet or imperial equivalent and see people griping about a lack of tanks or healers.

 

And once again, crafted is not BiS. And please, stop with the horrifically poor WoW mentality. It's embarrassing.

 

it does though, much like frozen orbs. right now there are many people that have received all of them they need, they will pass since they have no value. making them boe they now have value so at worst everyone will greed, much more likely need. every single time you run a flashpoint it comes down to that base 25% instead of have a pretty good chance of having better odds. also, out of curiosity which "wow mentality" are you referencing?

 

As for Rift, the highest levels of crafted gear WERE tied to a mat that you could only acquire by running the heroic version of dungeons (rarely at that) or by doing dailies and blowing a week's worth for -one- of the items needed. If you aren't aware of this then you either A) came into Rift late after they apparently changed it or B) never did any serious crafting in Rift.

 

Either way, it's moot. Trion did this and it caused a massive amount of feedback because of the selfsame way it was handled as frozen orbs were handled in WoW.

 

oh, lol. the only thing that you can be talking about are minor cats, which had a chance of dropping from any elite. you usually received more from doing t1/t2 dungeons (more elites there) but i know the majority of my early ones were from farming mathos rep. also, not only were they never bop, but they also never cost anywhere close to a "weeks" worth of badges, unless you were only running 2 heroics a week. also the majority of "high end" items didnt even really require them. there were titans signets for warriors and to a lesser extent rogues, and a mh weapon rune that was arguably worth it till they fixed spotters order. they werent anything close to frozen orbs nor was there a "massive amount" of feedback other than a better way of getting rid of them. its the very reason why they gave apoth the ability to break them and made them required for virtually everything with the crafting update i believe in 1.4.

 

Summarily, in every post where you've attempted to defend BCAs being BoP, you've been shot down, crashed and burned. Every defense you've thrown up has been successfully rebutted by me or another poster here.

 

The fact remains and it's incontrovertable. BCAs need to be changed from BoP to BoE. Doing so would only benefit the playerbase as a whole.

 

you havent proven or rebutted a single point in this post. you simply repeated "your wrong" a bunch of times and stated "incontrovertible facts" that are in fact wrong. which i have shown with examples.