Why did they even bother with a beta for this game?

[Astron_]

Oh I totally agree. However SWTOR fan boys dont like us screaming. They like us being good and silent so they can create topics about how amazing the game is and that BW doesnt need to do anything more to fix stuff, because the game is perfect at its current state. (well BW is already doing nothing..but allright)

 

 

What I find funny is that there are more and more "fanbois" who vigorously defended the game from criticism a couple of weeks ago who are now making hreads on how much the game suck.

 

However, I haven't seen a single thread on the opposite. Now, why is that? Could it be that the game actually sucks?

[darkcerb]

I love constructive threads like this that help the game get better. Full of suggestions and things that help the devs make the game better for all.

 

Judging from your post history you also love railing against actual constructive threads so that's not really saying anything.

 

And this thread is helpful it tells them there bug team is pathetic compared to the rest of the industry and either need greater motivation or replacing.

[Drake_Hound]

Oh I totally agree. However SWTOR fan boys dont like us screaming. They like us being good and silent so they can create topics about how amazing the game is and that BW doesnt need to do anything more to fix stuff, because the game is perfect at its current state. (well BW is already doing nothing..but allright)

 

The truth is they are working there butts off , I do see major improvements trying to solve there combat systems , also clients server sync problems ...

 

A lot of the stuff blizzard did the first 2 years , before they perfected the formula.

Must say one side am impressed they do respond fast to certain issues.

Other side am dissapointed that major bugs got trough again .

This kind of testing like GCD should have been done in beta or closed alpha .

The combat system is improving by miles each patch , but then they stumble onto another bug ..... Animation need to be in sync for example with melee classes , even speed it up .

 

Well atleast they got that priority right , the combat system overhaul .

But they surely need a quality of life team . To handle the minor issue .

Now where the hell are the green uneven number mods for example !! To gear your companion with .

[Riddickcz]

Could it be that the game actually sucks?

 

Well everybody knows dat

[HavenAE]

In their defense.

 

 

During active development of a game, there's usually so much going on and developers have so much on their plates that it's hard to get to the all of the issues brought up in beta. Some get fixed but many (especially when a game is rushed out) make it to live.

 

 

However, being 2 months out I would have expected to see a lot more of those beta bugs and glitches squashed than there have been.

[luzzo]

WAV file player

...

 

and this just a smnall example of some C ++ code.. Now Swtor consits aof Thousands of pages of this kind of code. Is it really that hard for oyu would be programmers to understand why it takes bioware time to even find thoise bugs (and I don´t mean in game they have to find it in the code)

 

really you guys really are disgusting. Never accomplished anythig in life but still want to judge other peoples work. Or as the german comedian Diether Nuhr once out it:

" If you don´t know what your talking about just shut the f*** up"

 

except that theres a search function, the thousands of lines of code are neatly spread across multiple files, and most of that code is always the same because it makes the window and all the neat little buttons.

 

So No, It's not all that complicated. It just takes a long time

 

Maybe you ppl who are noob coders should stop judging people who know what they're talking about...

 

Go try and explain what letters are to a kid who doesnt know how to read yet. ill bet 10 bucks he says 26 different symbols is too complicated.

 

Better yet go try to learn mandarin chinese, then look at how easy it is for all of them to understand the THOUSANDS of pictures without even trying

[DarthKhaos]

Judging from your post history you also love railing against actual constructive threads so that's not really saying anything.

 

And this thread is helpful it tells them there bug team is pathetic compared to the rest of the industry and either need greater motivation or replacing.

Awesome. I'm sure BioWare sacking their current coders and hiring new ones will speed up the process. Award winning suggestion here.

[Riddickcz]

The truth is they are working there butts off , I do see major improvements trying to solve there combat systems , also clients server sync problems ...

 

O.o what?

Yea thats what they want You to think.

Thats why they reply on every issue "its being looked into", or "its under investigation" or "its almost fixed". Lies.

 

They are fixing stuff like "You can now use emotes while riding vehicle." instead of stuff that are actually breaking the game.

 

Oh wait..you still cant use emotes while on vehicle..bugger...

[HavenAE]

What I find funny is that there are more and more "fanbois" who vigorously defended the game from criticism a couple of weeks ago who are now making hreads on how much the game suck.

 

However, I haven't seen a single thread on the opposite. Now, why is that? Could it be that the game actually sucks?

 

I'd be one of those.

 

 

Well I've never been a fanboy of anything, but I defended the game in the early couple of weeks, because it was new and new games take some time to get the ball rolling. In the meantime I watched and saw what was happening, saw how Bioware handled the game post launch, and you know what I found was... I wasn't impressed.

 

Bioware is basically that guy who doesn't have a clue in hell what he's doing at your daughter's soccer game, because he doesn't have any kids. But cheer for one of them anyway so he doesn't look like a pedophile, even if he isn't.

 

 

 

Honestly I'm glad the last few games I got that were made by Bioware were bootleg because after SWTOR I'll never pay for another of their titles again.

[FrankPowers]

However, I haven't seen a single thread on the opposite. Now, why is that? Could it be that the game actually sucks?

 

Well, far from the entire player base is here posting all the time. They are playing the game and perhaps even enjoying it. Who knows..

[HavenAE]

WAV file player

 

/WARNING: You need a HUGE memory model to run this.

 

#include "ALLOC.H"

#include "DOS.H"

#include "CONIO.H"

#include "STDIO.H"

 

void main()

{

char *name;

printf("

Enter the file name...:");

scanf("%s",name);

 

 

playwav(name,1.0);

 

}

 

 

void playwav(char wavefile[14],float delaytime);

struct WaveData {

unsigned int SoundLength, Frequency;

char *Sample;

};

 

 

struct HeaderType {

long RIFF; //RIFF header

char NI1 [18]; //not important

 

unsigned int Channels; //channels 1 = mono; 2 = stereo

long Frequency; //sample frequency

char NI2 [6]; //not important

char BitRes; //bit resolution 8/16 bit

char NI3 [12]; //not important

} Header;

 

 

 

 

 

struct WaveData Voice; //Pointer to wave file

 

 

unsigned int Base; //Sound Blaster base address

 

 

char WaveFile [25]; //File name for the wave file to be

played

 

 

/ Checks to see if a Sound Blaster exists at a given address, returns

true if Sound Blaster found, false if not.

/

int ResetDSP(unsigned int Test)

{

//Reset the DSP

outportb (Test + 0x6, 1);

delay(10);

outportb (Test + 0x6, 0);

delay(10);

//Check if (reset was succesfull

if ((inportb(Test + 0xE) & 0x80 == 0x80) && (inportb(Test + 0xA) ==

0xAA))

{

//DSP was found

Base = Test;

return (1);

}

else

//No DSP was found

return (0);

}

 

 

/ Send a byte to the DSP (Digital Signal Processor) on the Sound

Blaster

/

void WriteDSP(unsigned char Value)

{

//Wait for the DSP to be ready to accept data

while ((inportb(Base + 0xC) & 0x80) == 0x80);

//Send byte

 

outportb (Base + 0xC, Value);

}

 

 

/ Plays a part of the memory/

 

void PlayBack (struct WaveData *Wave)

{

long LinearAddress;

unsigned int Page, OffSet;

unsigned char TimeConstant;

 

 

TimeConstant = (65536 - (256000000 / Wave->Frequency)) >> 8;

WriteDSP(0x40); //DSP-command 40h - Set sample

frequency

WriteDSP(TimeConstant); //Write time constant

 

 

//Convert pointer to linear address

LinearAddress = FP_SEG (Wave->Sample);

LinearAddress = (LinearAddress << 4) + FP_OFF (Wave->Sample);

Page = LinearAddress >> 16; //Calculate page

OffSet = LinearAddress & 0xFFFF; //Calculate offset in the page

/*

Note - this procedure only works with DMA channel 1

*/

outportb (0x0A, 5); //Mask DMA channel 1

outportb (0x0C, 0); //Clear byte pointer

outportb (0x0B, 0x49); //Set mode

/*

The mode consists of the following:

0x49 = binary 01 00 10 01

| | | |

| | | +- DMA channel 01

| | +---- Read operation (the DSP reads from

memory)

| +------- Single cycle mode

+---------- Block mode

*/

 

 

outportb (0x02, OffSet & 0x100); //Write the offset to the DMA

controller

outportb (0x02, OffSet >> 8);

 

 

outportb (0x83, Page); //Write the page to the DMA

controller

 

 

outportb (0x03, Wave->SoundLength & 0x100);

outportb (0x03, Wave->SoundLength >> 8);

 

 

outportb (0x0A, 1); //Unmask DMA channel

 

 

 

WriteDSP(0x14); // DSP-command 14h - Single cycle

playback

WriteDSP(Wave->SoundLength & 0xFF);

WriteDSP(Wave->SoundLength >> 8);

}

 

 

/ Loads a wave file into memory.

This procedure expects a _very_ standard wave header.

It doesn't perform much error checking.

/

int LoadVoice (struct WaveData *Voice, char *FileName)

{

FILE *WAVFile;

 

 

//If it can't be opened...

WAVFile = fopen(FileName, "rb");

if (WAVFile == NULL) {

//..display error message

 

 

return (0);

}

 

 

//Return length of file for sound length minus 48 bytes for .WAV

header

fseek(WAVFile, 0L, SEEK_END);

Voice->SoundLength = ftell (WAVFile) - 48;

fseek(WAVFile, 0L, SEEK_SET);

 

 

//Check RIFF header

if (Voice->SoundLength > 32000) {

 

 

 

 

if (Voice->SoundLength > 64000) {

 

 

Voice->SoundLength = 64000;

}

}

free(Voice->Sample);

Voice->Sample = (char *)malloc(Voice->SoundLength); //Assign memory

if (!Voice->Sample) {

 

return (0);

}

 

 

//Load the sample data

fread(&Header, 46, 1, WAVFile);

 

 

//Check RIFF header

if (Header.RIFF != 0x46464952) {

printf ("Not a wave file

");

return (0);

}

 

 

//Check channels

if (Header.Channels != 1) {

printf ("Not a mono wave file

");

return (0);

}

 

 

//Check bit resolution

if (Header.BitRes != 8) {

printf ("Not an 8-bit wave file

");

return (0);

}

 

 

Voice->Frequency = Header.Frequency;

 

 

//Load the sample data

fread(Voice->Sample, Voice->SoundLength + 2, 1, WAVFile);

 

 

fclose (WAVFile); //Close the file

 

 

return (1);

}

 

 

void playwav (char wavefile[14], float delaytime )

{

delaytime=1.0;

if (ResetDSP (0x220)) {

//at 220h

printf ("");

} else {

if (ResetDSP (0x240)) {

 

//at 240h

printf ("");

} else {

//or none at all

printf ("");

return;

}

}

 

 

 

 

//Load wave file

if (LoadVoice (&Voice, wavefile)) {

 

 

//Start playback

PlayBack (&Voice);

 

 

delay(delaytime*1000);

 

 

//Stops DMA-transfer

WriteDSP (0xD0);

}

 

 

 

and this just a smnall example of some C ++ code.. Now Swtor consits aof Thousands of pages of this kind of code. Is it really that hard for oyu would be programmers to understand why it takes bioware time to even find thoise bugs (and I don´t mean in game they have to find it in the code)

 

really you guys really are disgusting. Never accomplished anythig in life but still want to judge other peoples work. Or as the german comedian Diether Nuhr once out it:

" If you don´t know what your talking about just shut the f*** up"

 

Except lines of code really aren't hard to read if you practice good notation

 

and when you work with it daily and are familiar with the code because you wrote it, it's even easier.

 

So from one programmer to another (maybe you are, maybe you're not) I'm going to have to disagree with you.

Edited February 15, 2012 by HavenAE

[plutorix]

except that theres a search function, the thousands of lines of code are neatly spread across multiple files, and most of that code is always the same because it makes the window and all the neat little buttons.

 

So No, It's not all that complicated. It just takes a long time

 

Maybe you ppl who are noob coders should stop judging people who know what they're talking about...

 

Go try and explain what letters are to a kid who doesnt know how to read yet. ill bet 10 bucks he says 26 different symbols is too complicated.

 

Better yet go try to learn mandarin chinese, then look at how easy it is for all of them to understand the THOUSANDS of pictures without even trying

 

Except you are also making **** up. Your search and replace function in your IDE isn't going to fix racing conditions between threads or graphics glitches that give you 0 debug output. (If you've never done graphics before, welcome to the black screen of nothing) In fact your search and replace function won't fix sorting strings instead of ints. It's probably in someone bug queue as a really low level issue compared to the rest he has to fix. Hopefully he'll learn to unit test small things like that in the future. EDIT: hell the bug might not even be in his code, it could either be the widget he's using to create the table with sortable columns that's missing a way to tell it how to sort each column. (Hell that could be in the engine even and require a new build of the engine to fix). Or at the point where it was taken out of the DB and should have been coverted their instead of everywhere that level number is used. The list goes, it's simple to see what the issue is, the fix might not be so easy. Don't assume anything.

 

Please tell us the last time you wrote a UDP server that can handle millions of packets per second. You also assume that all bugs are worth fixing. I could care less if my guild list sorting ability is broken when the rest of the UI has far worse bugs in it. You present a really naive view of software development. Like comments and indentation would catch all bugs, I mean seriously? You really believe this?

 

The lack of understanding of how large software development project work in this thread disturbs me. Here's a link to those who would like to learn instead of complain: http://www.amazon.com/Showstopper-Breakneck-Windows-Generation-Microsoft/dp/0759285780/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329313409&sr=8-1

 

Showstopper will give you an idea of how it's done. It's dated but still very relevant.

 

 

And the short beta is not the dev teams fault, it's a business decision and you should blame the business not the actual coders. In fact I'd say it was probably a good bargain, most of the industry assumes that missing the xmas deadline is going to kill your sales.

Edited February 15, 2012 by plutorix

[WutsInAName]

The beta's purpose was fueling the hype machine.

 

This plus datamining and loadtesting.

 

Thats all beta was.

 

Just look at the PTR(no char copy, no way to test endgame on PTR w/o levelling there) and buggy endgame, this is the extent of BW testing.

[Sizzurps]

I wouldn't even say this game is beta. I would say it plays like an alpha. In comparison, the D3 beta had I/O issues - once reported it was acknowledged and resolved internally within 3 days. BW is still running around like chickens with their heads cut off denying I/O issues. Edited February 15, 2012 by Sizzurps

[SlimsPicken]

As a long time beta tester I can only agree with the people who answered beta = hype.

 

We were directionless for much of the beta duration, major overhauls were implemented during the final phases after earlier feedback was mostly ignored, no focus testing, no end game testing, to be honest, I kind of stopped bothering with /bug reports after going through 6-7 phases and seeing the same bugs over and over... when you know damn well you and many others have given extensive feedback to help solve them.

 

It was basically all about load testing and stability stuff. Gameplay and many aspects of playerbase concern were roundly ignored.

 

I personally put in a lot of time and effort into the beta test, because i was grateful to have been chosen and retained so early on, but the effort turned into resentment by the end of the process.

 

On behalf of the beta testers who feel the same way I do, I apologize for the product that went to market, however, I can tell you with all honesty that it wasnt from lack of effort or feedback on our part.

[Iskareot]

Lately its been nothing but damage control for this game and nerf this, hotfix that. Wasnt that what a beta was for? Now i realize problems arise after beta and release can be a different build but it shouldnt be huge differences like we're seeing now.

 

Not to mention bioware took out a lot of armor sets and other options that it plans to throw into an expansion and make us pay, yet these things were already in the beta.

 

Actually... in Beta over the last year we made huge strides and did get a lot of things fixed and addressed.. MORE SO GAME BREAKING though and understand the difference between that and minor things you do not like or bugs for that matter.

 

By game breaking I am talking like -- MISSING WALLS or MISSING items that you wear... so I mean in the most basic manner of issues.

 

Also know that in some of our tests we tested simple things... not what armor you like or need etc.. so don't see it as seeing every part of the game and knowing it all.

 

That was NOT how it worked trust me.

[Iskareot]

As a long time beta tester I can only agree with the people who answered beta = hype.

 

We were directionless for much of the beta duration, major overhauls were implemented during the final phases after earlier feedback was mostly ignored, no focus testing, no end game testing, to be honest, I kind of stopped bothering with /bug reports after going through 6-7 phases and seeing the same bugs over and over... when you know damn well you and many others have given extensive feedback to help solve them.

 

It was basically all about load testing and stability stuff. Gameplay and many aspects of playerbase concern were roundly ignored.

 

I personally put in a lot of time and effort into the beta test, because i was grateful to have been chosen and retained so early on, but the effort turned into resentment by the end of the process.

 

On behalf of the beta testers who feel the same way I do, I apologize for the product that went to market, however, I can tell you with all honesty that it wasnt from lack of effort or feedback on our part.

 

Yeah but you and I both know we were there for the basics more so... NOT to change the game as a whole. I mean we did NOT design it nor did we get to alter it more or less.

 

We did give input and SOME things did get changed or fixed due to us but still.

 

I think people have a misunderstanding of what we did and how we did it over the last year. I can tell you how to level a freaking Sorc/Inq though to 50 lol.. I did that like 5 times ! lol..

[plutorix]

Actually... in Beta over the last year we made huge strides and did get a lot of things fixed and addressed.. MORE SO GAME BREAKING though and understand the difference between that and minor things you do not like or bugs for that matter.

 

By game breaking I am talking like -- MISSING WALLS or MISSING items that you wear... so I mean in the most basic manner of issues.

 

Also know that in some of our tests we tested simple things... not what armor you like or need etc.. so don't see it as seeing every part of the game and knowing it all.

 

That was NOT how it worked trust me.

 

Basically they released the game once it was playable. That's a business decision, some disagree and feel they are guinea pigs but dev teams probably practice incremental development. They could have spent another year working on the game but whitout direct customer feedback they could have continued doing the wrong thing for another year. They probably feel it's better to have people hammer at their stuff and see what works. A longer beta might have been a good idea but missing xmas would have cost them a lot of sales (at least the common thinking goes in the Game industry).

 

Would you all prefer a finish game that sucks or one that has issues but also potential to grow into something good?

Edited February 15, 2012 by plutorix

[Yeren]

I enjoy posts like this because the testing that I did most of the bugs that I saw in beta were fixed. Sure bugs are going to make it from beta to launch ... the system isn't perfect. And to the guy earlier who posted about notations in coding ..... um that's fine until you are crossing over hundreds (or maybe thousands) of different files that are broken apart by departments.

 

It's not one guy looking at all the code ..... geez.

[Tiam]

I just keep asking myself what they were doing for six years of development time.

 

Pretty much, Voiceover. You can tell not much was spent anywhere else.

[itekazzawrrlic]

Wrong again.

 

I've played every single major western MMO since EQ, I know exactly how these things work. I've been in beta for most. And I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't have these insights expecially when they're attempting to claim I don't.

 

But I'm sure your confirmation bias will conclude me and the countless other people who agree with me are just making stuff up.

 

BS...

 

I've played every major MMO since EQ as well, and this i by far a pretty smooth release compared to some of the fiasco's i've witnessed. Was it perfect? No. But name me one that was... Go ahead, try.

[plutorix]

BS...

 

I've played every major MMO since EQ as well, and this i by far a pretty smooth release compared to some of the fiasco's i've witnessed. Was it perfect? No. But name me one that was... Go ahead, try.

 

This matches my experience, at least people where able to play in the first month. I've seen MMO where it took months to become stable.

[Azumio]

If Bioware/EA/Mythic are even thinking of releasing expansions for this game that cost extra, they need serious help.

 

You charge me 92$ for 6 months of an unfinished, dead game? *****, refund my mother****ing money.

[Bopper]

Rift, especially in regards to the ui. Edited February 16, 2012 by Bopper

[OldBenSmokin]

BS...

 

I've played every major MMO since EQ as well, and this i by far a pretty smooth release compared to some of the fiasco's i've witnessed. Was it perfect? No. But name me one that was... Go ahead, try.

 

/yawn

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacktongue

It's not the launch, the launch was fine, it's the game. The game is mediocre in every way possible save for the VOs. They had six years and countless other MMO failures to learn from. This game should have been a hell of a lot better.

 

This^^

 

 

I'd take solid/lagless gameplay with a crashes to desktop over swtor's horrid gameplay and foundation ANYDAY.

Edited February 16, 2012 by OldBenSmokin