Jarreth Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Patch 1.2, among many other PvP changes, will remove the reliance on daily quests for your gear progression (and therefore increasing the value of the commendations you get for playing a match to the end) and penalties for quitters. That's nice and all, but what about making it so we can get an option for joining a fresh and just-opened PvP match from the very start or an option for joining matches in progress? How about an option for voting down members of the opposing team because you've seen them kill-trading? There's no real point in joining--and staying--for a match which has a minute left with the other team camped out in front of their own spawn point. You're not going to get any medals, you're going to get hardly any commendations, and what's more--you've missed a chance to requeue and get into a new match. I'm not really one given to looking at PvP in anything but a "casual" attitude, but a penalty for quitters isn't the problem you should be looking at here. It's how to deal with exploits, how to deal with kill-traders, and the other various bits which are OUTSIDE of warzones which are affecting them. The influx of people with the Battlemaster title and who are subsequently gearing up by kill-trading on Ilum is affecting PvP negatively--whether you as a developer want to admit it or not. It's a whole area of the PvP game which people who feel that there should be some kind of "earned rank" are avoiding. It's time to crack down on them, remove their gear and reset their Valor ranks. Show them you mean business about it. There's no excuse that it's been allowed to continue this long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thiagorib Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I am tired of the people leaving. Previously I felt that I wanted the penalty, but it was unrealistic to punish people who DC through no fault of thier own. I have changed my mind. It has become so pathetic. I have played in many Huttball games that if the other team ever gets ahead by even 1 point, at least two people leave the WZ. It's exhasting carrying the dead weight on my coattails. If it sucks for people when they DC, so be it, still need a penalty. I dont think BW will implement a penalty system that works on DC's It ill affect only if you intentional leave warzone (pressing "leave warzone" button, logging out, alt+f4 etc..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirRobin Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I would like to see some stats on percentage of discos during WZ game play, or any game play for that matter. It can't be all that frequent? Not a very good sample size, but nobody I have grouped with has ever just randomally discoed (without saying this sucks I am leaving first LOL) Seriously? Random disconnects still happen regularly for me and people I've grouped with. In both PvP and PvE. Had one guy crash out twice trying to finish one scene of dialog. Took a couple of minutes for him to get back in too, both times. I still drop through the map in Huttball regularly. Head on over to the support side of this forum and see the deluge of issues this game still has despite spending, what, six years in development... I would love to see stats too on the percentage of players actually selecting "leave warzone" and how often they do. Then again I would love to see stats on the number of exploiters and hackers too but I doubt BioWare is in any way keen to share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungpowSalmon Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 But the current system is flawed, and punishing people over a flawed system is probably the worst thing they can do. But rewarding others for being sore losers is even worse. For every player that leaves a wz because he "thinks" he's better than his entire team and doesn't want to waste his time, there are probably three more quitters that leave because they need to be carried by another team that is better than they are. Regardless of someone's individual pvp skill, I still have more respect for someone who will keep trying and take it in the chin like a man as opposed to a quitter who wants to cherry pick his battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanealpha Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So you think random people online care about you, your interests and your goals in game? Most people would rob you blind if they could in game. I get chests stolen from out under my feet while I kill the guy guarding it all the time. What makes you think that people care about your PvP experience? Most of the general population don't know you (i'd assume), don't care about you and don't care if they hamper your experience. This game does little to nothing to encourage a community feeling, and warzones hand out items for PvP gear, which is why a LOT of people play WZ's. A lot (I'd say most) of people have the "to hell with everyone else attitude." People just dont care about you, sorry. Not many people outside my guild care about me either, and I don't expect them to, because i dont care about them and have no reason to. Thanks for your thoughts on humanity and the internet...but it's not my point that people care or should care. My point is ALL game systems should encourage people who do care and DISCOURAGE/DEINCENTIVIZE those who do not. This way even those who don't care will be optimizing their gameplay by acting AS IF they did. The current game rewards people for being jerks. I support ANY game mechanic that reduces those rewards, offers alternative rewards for cooperative play, and encourages people to play together. I'm not sure why anyone would want something different. It's in ALL of our best interest with regard to COOPERATIVE game mechanics. Warzones are not cutthroat open PvP. They are TEAM gaming. Like it or not you are a TEAM playing a game. And despite your outlook on humanity online being part of a team has an obligation associated with it. 15 minutes isn't much to ask for. All BW has to do is incentivize solid play enough to make people value good play over that measly 15 minute committment. If BW can't do that, I think it's likely this game will go the way of WAR and other MMOs that had amaging potential but ended up at the bottom of the discount software bin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscVelocity Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Wz Commodations from a loss ~60 Wz Commodations when your valor >60 ?? Useless? I have 350adrenals/350 medpack and don't know what to do with my Wz commodations anymore. Add a Punish System in a PVP system which is flawed from the ground up? Fix your warzones,awards and people will be probably stick to the end, for way more balanced warzones. I'm pretty sure there are people over valor 60 who still don't have their champ set. I was real lucky and got 3 pieces in a row before the patch, now I'm valor rank 59 and still need 3 more champ bags to purchase my last piece. I bet there are people out there still who need at least half their set and then some. And the adrenals and medpacks are going to be very helpful to spend my wz comms on as I start doing more WZ's to get rank up. And they'll be adding a rank system so you're not only PvP'ing to complete your daily/weekly. I can finish my daily and weekly WZ quests in one evening running with pugs. You're exaggerating the 'broken' system, assuming you are still on topic, which is about cowards leaving the wz. Edited February 16, 2012 by EscVelocity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanealpha Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 But rewarding others for being sore losers is even worse. For every player that leaves a wz because he "thinks" he's better than his entire team and doesn't want to waste his time, there are probably three more quitters that leave because they need to be carried by another team that is better than they are. Regardless of someone's individual pvp skill, I still have more respect for someone who will keep trying and take it in the chin like a man as opposed to a quitter who wants to cherry pick his battles. QFT; nicely said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damolawler Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Perhaps Warzone leavers should have all their armour temporarily removed. So for 24hrs they are forced to quest, or pvp, or run around the fleet wearing only their underpants. Humiliate the buggers! . Edited February 16, 2012 by damolawler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkiree Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I'm sure Bioware will implement a 15-minute deserter debuff because WoW has a 15-minute deserter debuff SWTOR is a 90% copy from WoW just reskinned so I'm sure they will copy this feature from WoW too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyRWager Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 My only problem with the penalty is what about people who DC or get kicked from the warzone? Now, if you hit the "leave button" there should be a penalty, but if you DC or get removed that shouldn't be the case. And as far as being removed, its essential because I know that when I load into a previously started match, I get removed a LOT with out even wanting to. Because my load times are very long(I have a slower internet connection), I usually get kicked from the warzone 5-10 seconds from actually getting INTO it. So unless the door is open right away, I usually get booted again instantly. Would it be fair to penalize someone in that case? Heck no. Also on a random note, I think that is something that needs to be fixed. I dont have the issue with voidstar, since you have to press space bar to get in, before the timer starts. But huttball and alderaan are annoying and I frequently get removed because the timer starts while Im still loading. >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscVelocity Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) My only problem with the penalty is what about people who DC or get kicked from the warzone? Now, if you hit the "leave button" there should be a penalty, but if you DC or get removed that shouldn't be the case. And as far as being removed, its essential because I know that when I load into a previously started match, I get removed a LOT with out even wanting to. Because my load times are very long(I have a slower internet connection), I usually get kicked from the warzone 5-10 seconds from actually getting INTO it. So unless the door is open right away, I usually get booted again instantly. Would it be fair to penalize someone in that case? Heck no. Also on a random note, I think that is something that needs to be fixed. I dont have the issue with voidstar, since you have to press space bar to get in, before the timer starts. But huttball and alderaan are annoying and I frequently get removed because the timer starts while Im still loading. >.> They should make it to where if you DC (exit to login screen, game closes, or whatever else they can tell by where you are after you entered the WZ), then your spot is left open to you for the next couple mins, so when you log back into the game in time, you're right back into the WZ. The only way to leave would be to either Disc and wait 10 mins (which is about the same as a debuff) or Leave the wz, resulting in the wz debuff. Edited February 16, 2012 by EscVelocity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgZoeller Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Bioware you have to implement "AFK'er kick vote" option with quitter penalty feature at the same time.. If don't, people who intend to leave but cant do it cos of penalty will go AFK in warzones...Give us vote option to kick AFK'ers.. We are indeed doing that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will_Bringlight Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) What about giving a slight boost in Expertise to the team with least members?. Sure it would need surgical precision but you don't hurt those who leave (except for the obvious fact that they get 0 of everything) and those who stick it out get a helping hand to at least put up a fight and get some comms/valor out of it. Maybe they won't win but they'll be able to withstand the difference in numbers. Edited February 16, 2012 by Will_Bringlight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunari Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Unless they separate the premade queue, this will lead to more quitting by folks in the hapless pug you're matched up against How that would balance out with the effect you mention is anybody's guess. In the end, though, I suspect most people quit when they think they have no chance to win. They've already said 1.2 will have the "pre-season" of the rated WZ's so hopefully that means pre-mades will only fight pre-mades groups of 4's and above. Two groups of 4's can compete against a team of 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiQuan Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Just got booted from Civil War because speeder wouldn't load so I was considered awol. Happens almost every day. So not all desertion is desertion it's a flaw in the system for some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Just got booted from Civil War because speeder wouldn't load so I was considered awol. Happens almost every day. So not all desertion is desertion it's a flaw in the system for some. The good of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Unfortunately, if you are on a proper system and getting DC'ed you are the sacrifice that is being made for the greater good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouTJumped Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Thanks for your thoughts on humanity and the internet...but it's not my point that people care or should care. My point is ALL game systems should encourage people who do care and DISCOURAGE/DEINCENTIVIZE those who do not. This way even those who don't care will be optimizing their gameplay by acting AS IF they did. The current game rewards people for being jerks. I support ANY game mechanic that reduces those rewards, offers alternative rewards for cooperative play, and encourages people to play together. I'm not sure why anyone would want something different. It's in ALL of our best interest with regard to COOPERATIVE game mechanics. Warzones are not cutthroat open PvP. They are TEAM gaming. Like it or not you are a TEAM playing a game. And despite your outlook on humanity online being part of a team has an obligation associated with it. 15 minutes isn't much to ask for. All BW has to do is incentivize solid play enough to make people value good play over that measly 15 minute committment. If BW can't do that, I think it's likely this game will go the way of WAR and other MMOs that had amaging potential but ended up at the bottom of the discount software bin. Punishing won't make them care. They will just try to actively make the game end faster. You want to offer alternative rewards, and I agree. A debuff is not the way to go. Change the daily/weekly so that people have less incentive to leave and more incentive to stay. I shouldn't have to carry a group of fresh 50s to a loss against a BM premade. It sucks for them, but I took my lumps when I hit 50 and they can too. And it is a waste of my time, of which I don't have a lot. Edited February 16, 2012 by ouTJumped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunari Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Just got booted from Civil War because speeder wouldn't load so I was considered awol. Happens almost every day. So not all desertion is desertion it's a flaw in the system for some. I've had it only a few times. I'm not stressed out over a "deserter" debuff but I'd like it to be similar to the medical droid on a 24hour reset. 2-min the first time you "quit" a WZ, then 5min, then 15min, etc. A 2-min "ban" is small enough time that it'd be almost over by the time you get zoned back into game. So the legit crashes wouldn't really be effected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishidoblade Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The answer is not to punish people who leave however, one they do that im canceling ...the premade situation is so out of control it sucks and im not staying in those horrible warzones getting killed effortlessly over and over by organized thugs who might otherwise be outside torturing kittens. To put a penelty in place will not be an answer i promise you it will further ruin already horrible pvp. And btw im quite sure op the only reason your posting is because your premades dont have enough sheep for you to kill, not because your on the losing side as a pug, because with or without the afk'ers the pugs still lose, so nice try at trolling. I think Hello Kitty Land is more your speed... Create your own premade maybe?? The thugs and kittens part made me lol IRL. someone was obviously brutalized in pvp a widdddddle angry! to funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Eclipses Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Once they implement this, people are simply going to afk the WZ out when they see that it's a loss. Damage has already been done I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmage Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Quoted for truth. Also I'd like to point out my PVP history stats: DAOC- 5 years Wahammer- 2.5 years SWTOR- 2 months You fail SWTOR. Also I'd like to point out my PVP history stats: ... Wahammer- 2.5 years SWTOR- 2 months You fail SWTOR. Also I'd like to point out my PVP history stats: ... Wahammer- 2.5 years ... You fail SWTOR. Also I'd like to point out my PVP history stats: ... Wahammer- 2.5 years ... fail... In all seriousness, the incentive up until patch 1.1 was the valor gain at the end of the warzones and the commendations needed to buy your Champion bags. As much as people complain about RNG, my general experience was people stayed in games longer if only to sit on a point (Alderaan Civil War), ignore the ball (Huttball), or try to run away and hide in corners (voidstar). Thus, queued players were less frequently being thrown into a lost game. Hell, I've had occurences where I got into games with less than 30 seconds to go or even directly on scoreboard and was kind of happy to get the valor and commendations for minimal effort. Once Ilum became the most efficient source of valor, particularly for Imperials as on the majority of servers they are the most numerous faction, the valor component of Warzones became less important. More so once characters gain Battlemaster rank and only titles or vanity items are gained via higher ranks (i.e. War Hero & the PVP speeder). While commendations to gear up companions remains a largely marginal incentive as very little PVE content remains that utilizes them at that level. The issue has become further exacerbated with the new commendation system for Champion bags rewarding players a bit too much in my estimation towards obtaining their gear as fewer bags are needed to obtain a full set of Champion gear. Personally, I think a very easy fix of reducing the number of champion commendations from 7 to 3 would be sufficient to reduce the number of people leaving games sub valor rank 60. For 60 and above, a new mechanic is necessary and a deserter debuff should be implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirRobin Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) The good of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Unfortunately, if you are on a proper system and getting DC'ed you are the sacrifice that is being made for the greater good. Indeed, but not the brightest idea when they are paying customers too and actually not quite so "few." Edited February 16, 2012 by SirRobin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Patch 1.2, among many other PvP changes, will remove the reliance on daily quests for your gear progression (and therefore increasing the value of the commendations you get for playing a match to the end) and penalties for quitters. Well, this'll just promote botters/AFKers then. Wonder how we get around this. Maybe allow people to vote kick someone (get 4 votes out of 7, X person gets kicked from the WZ)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posixgod Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Awesome BW! thanks for giving incentive to afk and badge farm in WZ's, you can guarantee that's exactly what I'll be doing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehme Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Stay tuned for a new thread post patch 1.2: "People AFKing in warzones is now out of control." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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