Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[Vulgarr]

If we are going to measure community for community here TOR is far inferior to WOW's. At least there are in-game communities in WOW. In my experience they are non-existent in TOR which is why the 'it will damage the community' argument holds no water for me.

a community is everything that you make of it. its up to you if you want to participate. don't expect people like me to hold your hand and show you how to be sociable.

 

if its that bad, maybe you should take your own advice.

[DarthKhaos]

I am so sick of these damn LFG tool arguments, every single one of you fools that are against it KNOW that the game needs one to be successful, as it currently stands i don't even feel like logging in anymore because just the thought of standing there spamming LFG in general chat is sooo stupid, and on top of that there's no combat log, and Ilum is totally broken, world PvP is pretty much non existent, most people on my server play this game like it's a single player game, they never talk which is super annoying, and much more that is wrong with this game, which leaves me with the question, Why am i still here?

WHOHA! Someone need to let the keyboard & mouse go and slowly step away from the computer. You do know there are way more DPS than tanks and healers and a party needs less dps in SW:TOR than in WoW? Do you have any idea the kind of queue times when you are pooling that mass from multiple servers? Just asking.

 

Now I find the end of your short rant quite funny. How many people are you going to talk to by clicking the "Super Computer Automated Cross Server LFG Team GO!" button and waiting for your queue to pop. You're probably gonna turn on the TV and wait for that ~ding~ sound so you know that your order is ready. Way to make the game feel more MMOish according to you.

 

You can even arrange logging of specific alts beforehand to precisely manage group composition.

I forgot clean about this. so many times I'm on one character and whispered someone to say I'll heal that for you on my Operative or I'll tank that for you on my Guardian, switch and go. Gonna miss that.

[Kabloosh]

Alright how about this for a reason. We'll drop all the 'breaks community' as we've established that is something people value quite differently etc. The trouble with a LFD tool for me is that it actually doesnt solve anything. Really it doesnt. People want to say 'Atleast I can do other stuff while in que instead of being on the fleet' but we all know you'll end up being in que on the fleet anyways. But anyways its not a super solution to fix it all.

 

As I understand it people 'casual' people, people with 'real lives' etc want a tool because they dont want to spend time looking for a group in the fleet in the general channels. Because they dont have much time to play. As some guy some posts before this wrote he only has a hour, hour and a half tops to play after some school or whatnot. And the doesnt want to spend 40min + looking for a group. Alright I get that. I'm asuming this is from a dps point of view yea? Even so lets nail it down.

 

Without a system. "Spam" channels.

 

Dps - 30-40min or so for a group right?

 

Tank - 5 min or so? We all love the tanks right

 

Healer - 5-10 min about right? We cant after all go without a healer.

 

With a LFD system.

 

Dps - 30-40 min or so right? Because now whats happened is the game is spamming 'DPS LFG FP HM Whichever' for us in a channel we cant see.

 

Tank - 5 min or so probably less even.

 

Healer - Same as tank maybe 5min + since usually there's more healers then tanks.

 

What did it solve? Nothing. But oh wait! Make it Cross Realm! Thats solves it right?? Because then we have a bigger pool of players which means more healers and tanks!

 

With a LFD Cross Realm system.

 

Dps - 30-40 min

 

Tank - 5 min

 

Healer - 5 min.

 

Yey ! Cross realm LFD system finally ... Wait a minute? Still sucky que's hows that possible? We made a group of 4 ( 4!!! ) realms that MUST mean there are more tanks and healers ... Oh wait ofcourse there's more dps as well ....

 

If you dont believe me? Go search the Wow and Rift forums. Exactly what happened. First same server LFD tool. Then cross servers. And there's still whine about que times.

 

So yea that's why I dont like it. I am not gonna mention the community things yet again but I find it breaks stuff without fixing the things it's supposed to fix ...

 

Yeah... no.

 

You assume que times won't change because the pool of players in it won't change. The reality is yes ques my not improve but there is a greater chance they will because a LFD will allow players to que from anywhere and continue to do what they have been doing instead of sitting on their *** in the fleet with their complete attention on the fleet.

 

This will allow you to perceive things are going quicker since your attention is focused on something else and more people will begin queing up anyways enlarging the pool of players you can play with which can greatly increase the chances of getting into a group.

 

This mainly applies to leveling characters. Max level still needs A LOT of attention. You can consume all that stuff within a week and pretty much be bored on the fleet with nothing better to do. That problem obviously cannot be solved by a LFD tool and max level content needs to be overhauled and expanded with more things to do. Just adding gambling tables or special events would be probably a great bandaid for that ever growing issue but the LFD tool helps everyone just not the small 50 community.

[PjPablo]

a community is everything that you make of it. its up to you if you want to participate. don't expect people like me to hold your hand and show you how to be sociable.

 

if its that bad, maybe you should take your own advice.

 

Why so angry?

[chton]

Like? Keep going...

 

like anything other than a LFD tool

[grueber]

I'll have to respectfully disagree here that ToR needs one to be successful. I hate to bring up WoW here, but they went along perfectly for years without one, and the community was a lot better then. Players were nicer to each other no matter what server you were on, even on the forums. Then they threw it in and mutual respect and kindness went down the toilet. Not just between players, but also between players and the devs.

 

I didn't solve anything, it only made more problems, so much that the devs started telling off the players in forum posts. Just look at anything GC posts these days, he's become a jerk and use to be the coolest guy they have.

 

As Vul said above, it didn't solve anything for WoW, queue times are really high. You could find a group faster looking in chat than sitting in a city waiting on a 45 minute queue.

 

Your talking about a game that was originally released in 2004. That had DAoC and EQ1 as their main competitors. People have higher expectations now.

 

As for community the only one I have ever experienced is EQ1. That was because the leveling process was insanely long. Solo content was nonexistent and grouping was mandatory even for farming trash mobs. The death penalty was harsh. All these factors do not exist in swtor.

 

In WoW the only community I experienced was the one in my guild.

Edited February 12, 2012 by grueber

[MackumDog]

People moan about the cross realm aspect of the LFG tool in WOW, well here is a simple solution, Allow players to tick a box, saying cross realm or not.

 

the more selective th LFG tool could be with a decent amount of information, then it will not be a fail, but make it too simple and not give players options and it could be a game killer.

Edited February 12, 2012 by MackumDog

[Dillingor]

People moan about the cross realm aspect of the LFG tool in WOW, well here is a simple solution, Allow players to tick a box, saying cross realm or not.

 

the more selective th LFG tool could be with a decent amount of information, then it will not be a fail, but make it too simple and not give players options and it could be a game killer.

 

That won't work. Queue times will be too long and people who really would prefer a same server queue would be forced into a cross server queue to group with anyone because other people have that option, and are taking it for fastest reward.

 

There are other ways to promote easier grouping besides a random dungeon finder tool.

 

I don't disagree the LFG system needs improvement. I think a simple UI window where you can tick what you're looking for and what spec you are, then have it show you possible matches, or even match you with people same server, but still require you meet up to do the quest talk for social points or whatever is a good idea.

 

Just not a random dungeon finder cross-realm. DDO has a great LFG system right now that this game could copy.

[giuellen]

cross-server lfd breeds idiots who can get away with anything

 

intra-server lfd is fine, people are still accountable

 

Couldnt agree more. All i can say is in WoW it killed the quest zones on my server as nobody was around anymore. They all used LFD to race to 85, i love the questing side of it but i dont know how you can still keep enough players interested in the questing to prevent the zones becoming devoid of life. As a few have mentioned already there would need to be some safe guard against ninja looters ect. Last point as well, in WoW the social aspect of instances was killed off over night with many LFD encounters i did seeing people not even bothering to say a simple "hello" or "thanks" at the end.

[MackumDog]

That won't work. Queue times will be too long and people who really would prefer a same server queue would be forced into a cross server queue to group with anyone because other people have that option, and are taking it for fastest reward.

 

There are other ways to promote easier grouping besides a random dungeon finder tool.

 

I don't disagree the LFG system needs improvement. I think a simple UI window where you can tick what you're looking for and what spec you are, then have it show you possible matches, or even match you with people same server, but still require you meet up to do the quest talk for social points or whatever is a good idea.

 

Just not a random dungeon finder cross-realm. DDO has a great LFG system right now that this game could copy.

 

You probably right, I am prettymuch old school and we never had such luxaries but i think WoW was so massive you didnt meet people more than a couple of times, were as in old school MMOs you got to know people and used to all gather in certain points for the type of quest you were doing, so it was a simple choice of just fprming your team.

[Alilynn]

Any sort of LFG tool that is added to the game will inherently cause the content to be nerfed to ez-mode level.

 

A casual player is defined as someone with limited playtime, not someone that wants an I win button, free loot and content with no challenge.

 

What should be done is more to encourage guild play and forming a community. The only one's having issues finding flashpoints or groups I'd imagine are ones without a guild?

 

If you a primarily a solo player, why should a LFG tool be put in so you can experience more of the game. Go find a group of friends and run the flashpoint together. If you don't want to join a guild, why should it be catered to your play style, go play a single player game.

 

The first part of MMO is massively multi-player game. A que system is nothing more than an automated system to take away the community from the game.

 

If you have limited playtime, find other players that are on the same schedule. Why is it always someone else's issue for your problems. People need to take responsibily for themselves, this isn't Bioware's issue. This is the person's problem.

 

Our server created a server wide LFG channel (it's crude but helps), and its only as good as the amount of people we get in the channel. That's taking initiative and solving it ourselves, not relying on someone else to fix our problems.

 

I'd rather see a more complete LFG tool where you can select role and what not, it goes across planets and people can see through the whole server. It's still your responsiblity to travel there, and to chat with the people in the group.

 

I'm in the camp of I will most likely UNSUB if any sort of PVE LFG tool is in place, and I'm having issues with a cross server PVP. It's the lazy way.

 

An MMO game is a niche game, and most people are still trying to find that same fun they had the first time they were played and "WOW'd" by the game, thus nerfing the content for us that truly enjoy these kind of games and taking the fun away....

Edited February 12, 2012 by Alilynn

[PjPablo]

Any sort of LFG tool that is added to the game will inherently cause the content to be nerfed to ez-mode level.

 

A casual player is defined as someone with limited playtime, not someone that wants an I win button, free loot and content with no challenge.

 

What should be done is more to encourage guild play and forming a community. The only one's having issues finding flashpoints or groups I'd imagine are ones without a guild?

 

If you a primarily a solo player, why should a LFG tool be put in so you can experience more of the game. Go find a group of friends and run the flashpoint together. If you don't want to join a guild, why should it be catered to your play style, go play a single player game.

 

The first part of MMO is massively multi-player game. A que system is nothing more than an automated system to take away the community from the game.

 

If you have limited playtime, find other players that are on the same schedule. Why is it always someone else's issue for your problems. People need to take responsibily for themselves, this isn't Bioware's issue. This is the person's problem.

 

Our server created a server wide LFG channel (it's crude but helps), and its only as good as the amount of people we get in the channel. That's taking initiative and solving it ourselves, not relying on someone else to fix our problems.

 

I'd rather see a more complete LFG tool where you can select role and what not, it goes across planets and people can see through the whole server. It's still your responsiblity to travel there, and to chat with the people in the group.

 

I'm in the camp of I will most likely UNSUB if any sort of PVE LFG tool is in place, and I'm having issues with a cross server PVP. It's the lazy way.

 

Please explain how LFD would cause encounters to be made even more easy than they are already.

 

Also, I hate to break it to you but BW is already setting this up to be the most casual, most accessible MMO on the market today. You cannot describe a MMO that allows for multiple max characters, all BIS gear, all raid content cleared, etc in less than 30 days anything but.

 

Finally, you don't have to use the feature if added to game. You can still sit in Fleet and make groups the 'old-fashioned way'.

[harpuax]

Yeah... no.

 

You assume que times won't change because the pool of players in it won't change. The reality is yes ques my not improve but there is a greater chance they will because a LFD will allow players to que from anywhere and continue to do what they have been doing instead of sitting on their *** in the fleet with their complete attention on the fleet.

 

 

You don't have to sit in fleet. A server wide LFG channel which many servers have already created on their own can work too.

[Darkulous]

XserverLFD = Efficient management of gametime.

 

3rd Party Addons = Customization

 

Dual-Spec = Diversity in your Character

 

Management, Customization and Diversity. Saying no to these things labels you an old-timer trying to convince us all to walk butt-naked to school in a blizzard just because you had to. The WAITING AGE is over GRAMPS! Join the modern age of gaming or go back to your classics.

[nanogasm]

I believe the reason why they are not implementing a same server LFG tool is because there are many servers with low pops. They don't want to merge YET because it trickle-effects into bad press, which trickle-effects into bad business outcomes for EA.

 

Remember, EA is part of the development cycle. Bioware are the coders. EA helps steer how and when things unfold. EA is a much larger company, and they absorb incredible risk versus Bioware. They are behind this decision, no doubt in my mind.

 

I see this as a business decision first and foremost, design mechanism secondary. I'm not surprised they are implementing ways to stall server merges. That's a big no-no in MMO success this early in the cycle.

[PeacefulViolence]

Any sort of LFG tool that is added to the game will inherently cause the content to be nerfed to ez-mode level.

 

A casual player is defined as someone with limited playtime, not someone that wants an I win button, free loot and content with no challenge.

 

What should be done is more to encourage guild play and forming a community. The only one's having issues finding flashpoints or groups I'd imagine are ones without a guild?

 

If you a primarily a solo player, why should a LFG tool be put in so you can experience more of the game. Go find a group of friends and run the flashpoint together. If you don't want to join a guild, why should it be catered to your play style, go play a single player game.

 

The first part of MMO is massively multi-player game. A que system is nothing more than an automated system to take away the community from the game.

 

If you have limited playtime, find other players that are on the same schedule. Why is it always someone else's issue for your problems. People need to take responsibily for themselves, this isn't Bioware's issue. This is the person's problem.

 

Our server created a server wide LFG channel (it's crude but helps), and its only as good as the amount of people we get in the channel. That's taking initiative and solving it ourselves, not relying on someone else to fix our problems.

 

I'd rather see a more complete LFG tool where you can select role and what not, it goes across planets and people can see through the whole server. It's still your responsiblity to travel there, and to chat with the people in the group.

 

I'm in the camp of I will most likely UNSUB if any sort of PVE LFG tool is in place, and I'm having issues with a cross server PVP. It's the lazy way.

 

An MMO game is a niche game, and most people are still trying to find that same fun they had the first time they were played and "WOW'd" by the game, thus nerfing the content for us that truly enjoy these kind of games and taking the fun away....

 

This doesn't make any sense, how does an LFG tool take the community away, you're still freaking playing with other people, what the hell is the matter with you guys.

[Alilynn]

Please explain how LFD would cause encounters to be made even more easy than they are already.

 

Also, I hate to break it to you but BW is already setting this up to be the most casual, most accessible MMO on the market today. You cannot describe a MMO that allows for multiple max characters, all BIS gear, all raid content cleared, etc in less than 30 days anything but.

 

Finally, you don't have to use the feature if added to game. You can still sit in Fleet and make groups the 'old-fashioned way'.

 

 

Thanks for reading my whole post. Our server has a server wide LFG tool, which I want Bioware to expand, which means I can be anywhere in the game on my server and see people post in that channel... What I don't want is automatic ques, and cross server, which will inherently nerf content and ruin the community.

[grueber]

Couldnt agree more. All i can say is in WoW it killed the quest zones on my server as nobody was around anymore. They all used LFD to race to 85, i love the questing side of it but i dont know how you can still keep enough players interested in the questing to prevent the zones becoming devoid of life. As a few have mentioned already there would need to be some safe guard against ninja looters ect. Last point as well, in WoW the social aspect of instances was killed off over night with many LFD encounters i did seeing people not even bothering to say a simple "hello" or "thanks" at the end.

 

The zones are already empty once you get past Coruscant and Dromand Kaas. There is no compelling reason for people to revisit the zones. I'm so sick of the linear world progression that I skip most of the side quests on the worlds anyway.

 

Fed up with the repetitive "ninja looters" garbage. Unless you join a group with someone master looting a "ninja" can only roll need at best. Read all the previous suggestions on how Bioware does not have to provide an exact copy of the WoW LFD.

[MackumDog]

better would be gathering points, were people could all gather if they wanted to do a certain quest, and once the team was formed they hopped on to the transport and were whisked away to their fun

 

but this would mean people gathering, and this is where the problem lies, most people in modern MMOs are doing something else and they want to keep plodding along doing that, until they can be warrped to the event, do it and warp back.

 

The old way was better

[PjPablo]

Thanks for reading my whole post. Our server has a server wide LFG tool, which I want Bioware to expand, which means I can be anywhere in the game on my server and see people post in that channel... What I don't want is automatic ques, and cross server, which will inherently nerf content and ruin the community.

 

But how does adding cross-server LFD queues 'inherently nerf content'? You have not explained that part.

[Barzarel]

Worried it will dissocialize people, the more easy things become to engage in without any iniative or involvement on ones own part, the bigger chances are people much like with Warzones will sit on their back sides by themselves waiting for queue to farm item X.

 

Instead of taking some iniative to meet or find people to do things with, which should be part of the social aspect that need be, which so many have mandated time over when ever solo-able content was up for debate.

 

If we gonna play subgames anyways where socializing with people is just a ends to a means, then we could aswell have more solo-able content and stop pretending its a social game in my opion.

[Kabloosh]

You don't have to sit in fleet. A server wide LFG channel which many servers have already created on their own can work too.

 

I use it every time and no it does not work like you say it does. I see usually 1 other person looking for something through that failed system and they are looking for something else. I even check within my level range and 99/100 times no one is there. I have managed to land a person or 2 through the system but that happens next to never.

 

99% of my groups are formed through finding people through general chat. Even when I look for people for heroic areas and use the tool I usually never get a response from someone looking through the /who feature.

[Kucerakov]

@OP

 

You say that the lack of social activities is what is hindering the creation of a good community but aren't hm runs and wz a form of social activity themselves?

 

Cross server content destroys any chance of creating a server based community for the sole and simple reason that you don't NEED the community to play anymore.

 

I understand that there are people with limited schedules that can't afford to play a game as much so as to be absorbed in it's social part and that's who the LFD as a tool is referring to. But let's face it. These people where never part of the community anyway (through no fault of their own). They paid and keep paying the same amount of money as more intensive players do and they have a right to demand an LFD but that doesn't make the fact that LFD ruins it for some of us any different.

 

The social options you are suggesting will end up in the same place the game is now too: People will start with "CMON let's have Cross server nar shadaa casinos there is noone in my server that plays! CMON let's have cross server match up for the card game i cant find anyone to play with in the few hours i have availiable to play."

 

All these claims are legitimate and honorable but that doesn't mean all of us have to like them.

 

The LFD tool caters the 2-3hours per day players in the expense of the 5-10 hours per day ones. This is a decision that's up to bioware and it's pretty obvious they are going with the first one. That's not a bad or a good thing. It just depends on which type you are.

 

TL;DR all cross server content works against the establishment of an active community and that affects the way ppl enjoy the game differently for every player.

 

5-10 hours per day? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that is the minority.

[terminova]

I know there are several threads on this, but I'd like to debunk some of the myths there are out there. Hopefully others will join and hopefully I might also actually see a legitimate reason to why BW shouldn't implement a LFD tool.

 

Anyway here goes:

 

To sum it up:

 

a LFD tool doesn't hinder people in making friends, the lack of social activities in the current state of the game, however, does. Besides you'll also be playing with 'doucebags' on your own server, a LFD tool will not make this worse, we'll instead be playing more and thus be seeing them more.

 

The threads you are referring to are arguing about Cross server functionality, not same server functionality. In other words, your "debunking" falls short as you are talking about something they are not.

[PjPablo]

5-10 hours per day? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that is the minority.

 

Average play time per BW metrics is 4 hours a day.