Eszi Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 gamer: Bioware can i have a steak please? Bioware: Here you go, as requested gamer: But this is a rock bioware: It's what you asked for gamer: No, i asked for a steak bioware: Okay we've listened, here you go gamer: This is a brick, i asked for a steak... Bioware: We've tested all week and concluded this is what you want based on our data gamer: It's a stick... Bioware: That's right! And you get a chance of a brick every 30th request, awesome right?!? we have a winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Karsk Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It's not "sometimes off", you just don't understand what probability is. A 25% chance of X happening IS NOT the same as saying X will happen exactly 1 out of 4 times. No s*** sherlock. Read it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chado_ Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) All of you "pvpers" that care so much about the carrotz are coming across as blatant closet carebears.. Edited February 2, 2012 by Chado_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triskil Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Rewarding people based on time spent and not for any form of skill is so dumb. I can't believe this system is staying. It is probably the worst way to do gearing for pvp I can think of. I understand it from a 'marketing' perspective but as far as game design goes this is bad. I guess everyone just thinks logging in and doing the weekly and daily is the pinnacle of pvp game design. Edit: How about rated warzones awarding gear based on performance and/or actually tethering valor points to getting gear instead of just having it be a requirement to wear it? Really anything but random lottery bags. Its fairly impossible to argue that a competitive pvp environment can arise from a reward system based almost entirely on random lottery and time spent. Edited February 2, 2012 by Triskil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoffs Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It's obvious from comments here that the patch note is not specific enough, so we'll get it updated before the patch goes to the live servers. Here are some specifics: Champion Bags now always contain 15 Centurion Commendations AND 7 Champion Commendations. Battlemaster Bags now always contain 15 Champion Commendations. So Centurion gearing up progression for new level 50s is increased significantly and Champion gearing up progression will be steady. - Gabe Ok, now I understand. This is a good change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cekis Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Rewarding people based on time spent and not for any form of skill is so dumb. I can't believe this system is staying. It is probably the worst way to do gearing for pvp I can think of. I understand it from a 'marketing' perspective but as far as game design goes this is bad. I guess everyone just thinks logging in and doing the weekly and daily is the pinnacle of pvp game design. FOR GOD'S SAKES MAN!!! Don't point out ways to improve it, just complain about how it's working currently and point out that it's currently the worst you can think of!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cekis Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Ok, now I understand. This is a good change. Ya, it sounds good actually. The patch note is totally misleading compared to what was said. I was gonna scream bloody murder too until I waited and read the rebuttal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bregah Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The chance for a Battlemaster Commendation to be in a Battlemaster Bag is NOT changing. It is still 25%. Why this? Why is it random? I can not think of something dumber to implement in a PvP gear system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triskil Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 FOR GOD'S SAKES MAN!!! Don't point out ways to improve it, just complain about how it's working currently and point out that it's currently the worst you can think of!! Well that's easy how about rated warzones awarding gear based on performance and/or actually tethering valor points to getting gear instead of just having it be a requirement to wear it? Or if that's too specific just look at any other mmo's system for awarding pvp gear and use that because random lottery bags is the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlonzoOdantis Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 wait...the chance is 25% I realize it's bad luck...but I thought it was 15% so I had justified my now 11 bags opened without a single BM comm as just a bad run...now it's just atrocious lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbseeker Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Why in Gods name would you devs consider this as a good idea? It's asinine! Dude, I'm seriously convinced you guys are deliberately sabotaging your own game, for whatever reason. CLEARLY the MAJORITY of players are NOT happy with his implementation, and yet you guys are seriously going to proceed with this?!?! Woooooooow. Let me ask you numb-skull devs this: What do you purpose I do with the extra 3 jackets, 2 pants, 2 bracers, 3 head gears? Hu? Aside from giving it to my companions which I don't use anymore, what do I do with them!? I worked my butt off to get those bags and this is how you devs pay us; with worthless items we, the actual players, can't use? Dude, you folks need to seriously have your heads examined if you think this idea is any good, as well as the old one. Secondly, Centurion commendations, to me, are absolutely worthless and yet you're going to INCREASE the amount we get now!? Holy Cow poopoo!!! Am I missing something here!? When did April Fools day change to February 2nd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittypryde Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Why in Gods name would you devs consider this as a good idea? It's asinine! Dude, I'm seriously convinced you guys are deliberately sabotaging your own game, for whatever reason. CLEARLY the MAJORITY of players are NOT happy with his implementation, and yet you guys are seriously going to proceed with this?!?! Woooooooow. Let me ask you numb-skull devs this: What do you purpose I do with the extra 3 jackets, 2 pants, 2 bracers, 3 head gears? Hu? Aside from giving it to my companions which I don't use anymore, what do I do with them!? I worked my butt off to get those bags and this is how you devs pay us; with worthless items we, the actual players, can't use? Dude, you folks need to seriously have your heads examined if you think this idea is any good, as well as the old one. Secondly, Centurion commendations, to me, are absolutely worthless and yet you're going to INCREASE the amount we get now!? Holy Cow poopoo!!! Am I missing something here!? When did April Fools day change to February 2nd? It's a start.... I mean people are gonna complain no matter what so either way it's gonna make some unhappy and others happy... And I'm sure calling the dev's *stupid* is really gonna help your position on this matter I mean I know that I respond well when someone is being verbally abusive toward me Edited February 2, 2012 by Kittypryde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xOspreyx Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Like I said you don't understand. Good day sir. I understand perfectly. When I'm comparing a blue pve item to a purple pvp item, I shouldn't have to try to guess if it will make my character do more damage or not. The choice should be clear. Currently it is not so you are apparently the one that doesn't understand why that is an issue with Centurion gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akilae Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So basically, you'll just skip over Champion gear until you're a Battlemaster, and then start having to bank up tokens for that gear grind? This doesn't make any sense and I'd really like to see a more in depth explanation on how this idea came to be. If anything you should make champion bags give champion commendations and a solid chance at a token to buy a centurion piece of armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 This. A lot of us were really in love with a lot of aspects of this game. We were willing to accept the half baked product because we figured it would get better, but BW has shown a complete lack of competence at dealing with even a single issue. While bugs might be getting better, every single patch has created new and bigger gameplay issues, all of which with the community literally screaming at BW on the forums and getting absolutely no response as the BW developers march inevitably to their own doom. BW created a shoddy game with some real promise, but has only worked to make the game shoddier. This idea is absolutely incompetent. I unsubbed last week with the hopes of resubbing soon, but I just don't see that happening. This also makes me worry for ME3... Edit: to the post above me, you're right, it's a great idea, except that it's far too late for this tier. All it will do is put all new 50's in centurian gear until they grind out battlemaster while all previous 50's are in full champion, and the stat difference is huge! My 50 only plays the daily and he is in all champion except his LS. They can't design a game based around your jealousy. The new changes are fine. If you don't like games that change, mmogs are not for you. The swtor team has done more in the first five weeks of launch than any mmog developer ever. I have been through almost all of them and the kind of attention they are delivering so soon after launch is unprecedented. Who cares how long it took others to get bm gear? Again if that bothers you, mmogs are not for you. There were two major complaints, randomness of bags and fresh 50s having no gear. I did not have a problem with either issue but a lot of people did. These changes address those community concerns in spades. Kudos to the dev team for a job well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolvus Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 PS: What happens with those lvl60+ valor rank? What are we supposed to do? keep on getting 1 battlemaster commendation each 10 battlemaster bags? Ridiculous... He already stated that the drop rate is 25% per bag. Which if you know any math at all is 1 BM commendation per 4 bags, not per 10. RNG will apply of course. Being unlucky is just universes way of telling something for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xOspreyx Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If you compare full centurion to full champ, the expertise difference is not that big, maybe 2-3%. That doesn't make you lose. No, the expertise difference alone doesn't make you lose. The expertise difference combined with the stat difference combined with the lack of set bonuses doesn't make you lose either but it sure puts you behind the 8 ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Eclipses Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 They can't design a game based around your jealousy. The new changes are fine. If you don't like games that change, mmogs are not for you. The swtor team has done more in the first five weeks of launch than any mmog developer ever. I have been through almost all of them and the kind of attention they are delivering so soon after launch is unprecedented. Who cares how long it took others to get bm gear? Again if that bothers you, mmogs are not for you. There were two major complaints, randomness of bags and fresh 50s having no gear. I did not have a problem with either issue but a lot of people did. These changes address those community concerns in spades. Kudos to the dev team for a job well done. Wrong. RIFT did far more in far less time than TOR. With that said, I approve of these changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akilae Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) So basically, you'll just skip over Champion gear until you're a Battlemaster, and then start having to bank up tokens for that gear grind? This doesn't make any sense and I'd really like to see a more in depth explanation on how this idea came to be. If anything you should make champion bags give champion commendations and a solid chance at a token to buy a centurion piece of armor. Originally Posted by GabeAmatangelo It's obvious from comments here that the patch note is not specific enough, so we'll get it updated before the patch goes to the live servers. Here are some specifics: Champion Bags now always contain 15 Centurion Commendations AND 7 Champion Commendations. Battlemaster Bags now always contain 15 Champion Commendations. So Centurion gearing up progression for new level 50s is increased significantly and Champion gearing up progression will be steady. - Gabe Ok, this is actually a good change. That would definitely be something you want to update the patch notes with. It never made sense to me that champ bags did not drop champion tokens. I can only hope this patch is coming very soon. Thanks! Edited February 2, 2012 by Akilae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkabuki Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Real problem is BM gear not other gear... i think. 12 bm box = 36 champ comm is really funny!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'm really sorry Greorg, I don't mean to seem rude. I'm really grateful you would come to the forums and post in the first place, so thank you for that. However ... can you please show my some posts were people said they wanted more centurion loot from champion bags? Or where battle masters said they wanted more champion loot from bags? What we said was "we want more CHAMPION gear out of CHAMPION bags" and "we want more BATTLE MASTER GEAR out of BATTLE MASTER bags" You have responded by reducing both of those things. Please don't use us in justifying your change. If you want to make the change we are looking for, have champion bags drop 5 to 10 champion tokens, and have gear cost about 60 tokens. Make battle master bags drop 5 to 10 tokens battle master tokens, and have gear cost about 50 tokens. Make centurion something you buy with WZ tokens and 50 valor. I don't know if you visit the pvp forum but fresh 50s being ungeared was a major complaint. Much bigger than you wanting to get bm gear faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 wait...the chance is 25% I realize it's bad luck...but I thought it was 15% so I had justified my now 11 bags opened without a single BM comm as just a bad run...now it's just atrocious lol Well, 25% chance for most people. The Devs obviously just don't like you Someone has to be in the 75% I bet bag #12 for you contains everything you've always wanted!!! Well...that or an implant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cekis Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Well that's easy how about rated warzones awarding gear based on performance and/or actually tethering valor points to getting gear instead of just having it be a requirement to wear it? Or if that's too specific just look at any other mmo's system for awarding pvp gear and use that because random lottery bags is the worst. So, you want it more like WoW's system then? Good enough, but it doesn't have to be like WoW. Making something better than that I'm sure is their goal. Unfortunately, perfection on the first try of anything is rare. Something to consider too... you want to reward skill players with gear that makes them better instead of award lesser skill players with gear to help them compensate for lack of skill? With that method, you're going to snuff out anybody who doesn't get there first and will be creating a HUGE rift between skill levels and ultimately any chance for the lower skill level compete. Which means, nobody will be PvP'ing and you'll kill off the game. I don't agree with your idea. Consider the HIGHLY skilled newb 50. They don't have gear. If the "upper tier" one-shots them because of their gear and their skill level combined, the newb 50 will say "f-that" and quit. That's the design flaw on your idea. I agree that the "randomness" does nothing but piss people off and it should go. But... I don't have a problem with this adjustment either as it's a guaranteed steady grind that doesn't inflict a, "Hey, my LUCK is better than your SKILL or TIME!" system. Also, it's a lot like WoW's battleground gear system and that implementation isn't bad. Edited February 2, 2012 by Cekis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonsLightV Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 What i don't understand about this whole bag system is that you have a chance to get a drop that is far superior then the comms that pay for the gear those comms are for. Centuri comms pay for centrui gear, which sucks compared to champion gear, yet you can get a chance to have a champion gear piece drop from the bag. What would make better sense to me, would be to have Valor ranked centurions have centurion bags that also drop centurion tokens with a slight chance of an automatic centurion piece. Then the next rank, champion, would have the same thing, champion only tokens with the chance of a champion piece in the bag, etc. Basically you only can get bags based on your valor rank and that's it, and the gear you get is only for that tier of valor. Why in the world are champion bags dropping centurion tokens when it is a bag that is supposed to be for a higher tier of PVP gear and it is dropping lower tear tokens? This makes no sense whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunari Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The cost of Champion and Centurion items are NOT changing. The chance for a Battlemaster Commendation to be in a Battlemaster Bag is NOT changing. It is still 25%. To reiterate the mention in my previous post, we will be changing Battlemaster Commendation drops in a future patch toward the same 'steady' progession goal without changing the overall average time to gear up. Great to hear Gabe, I hope you guys can start to communicate like this more often. It's great to see you guys jump in to clarify quickly. Can't wait for 1.1.2 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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